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European Super League - clubs withdrawing p42 onwards.

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  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,215
    bobmunro said:
    roseandcrown said:
    Redmidland said:
    One of the chairman of 14 other clubs in PL are asking for the big 6 to be kicked out now, cancel this weekends Cup Final, no more games in PL for these 6.

    This needs to happen now. 
    I'm looking for a price on the treble - Leicester to win the league and FA Cup, and PSG to win the CL.

    I hear Bet365 are good bookies @bobmunro
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Thomas has been quiet through all of this. I think he needs to come out and say Charlton have no interest in being part of this Super League.

    Yep, and at the same time put out a statement saying we have no interest in partaking in Elon Musk's space project.
    No need to burn any bridges at this stage. I would advise TS to remain silent and conduct negotiations with Musk behind closed doors.
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,454
    bobmunro said:
    roseandcrown said:
    Redmidland said:
    One of the chairman of 14 other clubs in PL are asking for the big 6 to be kicked out now, cancel this weekends Cup Final, no more games in PL for these 6.

    This needs to happen now. 
    I'm looking for a price on the treble - Leicester to win the league and FA Cup, and PSG to win the CL.
    Let me know if you find anything Bob
    ;-)
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    WSS said:
    I really hope this shifts to us adopting the 50+1 model they have in Germany.
    That won't happen - unfortunately. 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    Henry Irving said:
    bobmunro said:
    roseandcrown said:
    Redmidland said:
    One of the chairman of 14 other clubs in PL are asking for the big 6 to be kicked out now, cancel this weekends Cup Final, no more games in PL for these 6.

    This needs to happen now. 
    I'm looking for a price on the treble - Leicester to win the league and FA Cup, and PSG to win the CL.

    I hear Bet365 are good bookies @bobmunro
    They are the best - and if I could have an account with them I would!!
  • ElliotCAFC
    ElliotCAFC Posts: 2,552
    This will be a resounding success for those involved. The market in the east means clubs no longer need the Premier League, if anything, the Premier League is a stumbling block on the road to a financial utopia. They control the rules, revenue and ultimately football.

    In 50 years time younger generations won’t understand what all the fuss was about. You can see it now, 12 year olds saying Messi was overrated because he never did it in the Super League. 

    Seriously concerning for the rest of the football pyramid. Owners now have clubs with massive losses and now a glass ceiling on where they can go. 
  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,070
    bobmunro said:
    WSS said:
    I really hope this shifts to us adopting the 50+1 model they have in Germany.
    That won't happen - unfortunately. 
    Why do you think so Bob? Ship already sailed and too hard to claw back from a legal perspective?
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    WSS said:
    bobmunro said:
    WSS said:
    I really hope this shifts to us adopting the 50+1 model they have in Germany.
    That won't happen - unfortunately. 
    Why do you think so Bob? Ship already sailed and too hard to claw back from a legal perspective?
    From a commercial and legal perspective. The few clubs that make money will resist any compulsory purchase of equity (legal) and the clubs lower down that invariably lose money would need to rely on fans stumping up money to cover losses (commercial).

    If we could wipe the slate clean and start again then the German model would be fantastic - although I'm not sure how they have arrived at the 51% fan owned unless it was always thus.  
  • cafc999
    cafc999 Posts: 4,967
    The clubs seem to think that the players will just be fine with it. Maybe some of them are, some not? 
  • jacob_CAFC
    jacob_CAFC Posts: 2,063
    ElliotCAFC said:
    This will be a resounding success for those involved. The market in the east means clubs no longer need the Premier League, if anything, the Premier League is a stumbling block on the road to a financial utopia. They control the rules, revenue and ultimately football.

    In 50 years time younger generations won’t understand what all the fuss was about. You can see it now, 12 year olds saying Messi was overrated because he never did it in the Super League. 

    Seriously concerning for the rest of the football pyramid. Owners now have clubs with massive losses and now a glass ceiling on where they can go. 
    Yeah I think even if this doesn't go through in the way it is being proposed, the fact that they have gone this far is not a good omen for the future. 
    Unless something big happens to stop this, e.g legislature then it'll eventually happen exactly how they want it 
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  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    cafc999 said:
    The clubs seem to think that the players will just be fine with it. Maybe some of them are, some not? 
    If they get paid enough they will be absolutely fine with it.
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,750
    charente addick said:
    Whilst being totally against this venture I do find the reaction of the Premier League and UEFA quite hypocritical.

    Under the guise of ‘fair play’ these bodies, through the apportionment of considerable TV money, have created massive gaps between clubs over the last 20 to 30 years and have happily let it happen.

    Every time we pay our monthly Sky Subsciption we are all also very culpable.
    Thank god at last, someone else says the naked truth.

    If you are against 'greed' in football, stop paying to watch it on TV.
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,914
    ElliotCAFC said:
    This will be a resounding success for those involved. The market in the east means clubs no longer need the Premier League, if anything, the Premier League is a stumbling block on the road to a financial utopia. They control the rules, revenue and ultimately football.

    In 50 years time younger generations won’t understand what all the fuss was about. You can see it now, 12 year olds saying Messi was overrated because he never did it in the Super League. 

    Seriously concerning for the rest of the football pyramid. Owners now have clubs with massive losses and now a glass ceiling on where they can go. 
    By success for all, you mean they will make lots of money 
  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,070
    bobmunro said:
    WSS said:
    bobmunro said:
    WSS said:
    I really hope this shifts to us adopting the 50+1 model they have in Germany.
    That won't happen - unfortunately. 
    Why do you think so Bob? Ship already sailed and too hard to claw back from a legal perspective?
    From a commercial and legal perspective. The few clubs that make money will resist any compulsory purchase of equity (legal) and the clubs lower down that invariably lose money would need to rely on fans stumping up money to cover losses (commercial).

    If we could wipe the slate clean and start again then the German model would be fantastic - although I'm not sure how they have arrived at the 51% fan owned unless it was always thus.  
    Think it become "a thing" in the late 90s.
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 35,994
    It's all well and good these US owners wanting to adopt a closed shop model as per US sports but all those sports (as far as i'm aware) have salary caps and budget limits. 

    What happens when these clubs (and they inevitably will) spend over and above all of the additional income they're going to get from the ESL? There's nowhere else to go financially from there.
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,484
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,215

  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,146
    ElliotCAFC said:
    This will be a resounding success for those involved. The market in the east means clubs no longer need the Premier League, if anything, the Premier League is a stumbling block on the road to a financial utopia. They control the rules, revenue and ultimately football.

    In 50 years time younger generations won’t understand what all the fuss was about. You can see it now, 12 year olds saying Messi was overrated because he never did it in the Super League. 

    Seriously concerning for the rest of the football pyramid. Owners now have clubs with massive losses and now a glass ceiling on where they can go. 
    Not if steps I suggest are taken. I would actually go further. The five clubs that they deign to drop some crumbs for are either not allowed back in their domestic league, or made to start again at the lowest professional level. 

    12 year olds parents have to stand solid as well and refuse to pander to the little glory hunting horrors...  :D    
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    It's all well and good these US owners wanting to adopt a closed shop model as per US sports but all those sports (as far as i'm aware) have salary caps and budget limits. 

    What happens when these clubs (and they inevitably will) spend over and above all of the additional income they're going to get from the ESL? There's nowhere else to go financially from there.
    The super duper leagues then comes into existence. 
  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,484
    edited April 2021
    Shows how out of touch I am with the premier league, I just googled Herrera thinking he still plays for United but turns out he doesn't.
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  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,750
    AddicksAddict said:
    charente addick said:
    Whilst being totally against this venture I do find the reaction of the Premier League and UEFA quite hypocritical.

    Under the guise of ‘fair play’ these bodies, through the apportionment of considerable TV money, have created massive gaps between clubs over the last 20 to 30 years and have happily let it happen.

    Every time we pay our monthly Sky Subsciption we are all also very culpable.
    Speak for yourself.
    He's speaking for all subscribers to these channels. It's just that some don't think about it. 

    Please explain how you think these clubs get their money if it isn't from TV subscription services. They also get commercial revenue and sponsorship but all of this depends on matches being broadcast to a large audience.


  • ElliotCAFC
    ElliotCAFC Posts: 2,552
    shine166 said:
    ElliotCAFC said:
    This will be a resounding success for those involved. The market in the east means clubs no longer need the Premier League, if anything, the Premier League is a stumbling block on the road to a financial utopia. They control the rules, revenue and ultimately football.

    In 50 years time younger generations won’t understand what all the fuss was about. You can see it now, 12 year olds saying Messi was overrated because he never did it in the Super League. 

    Seriously concerning for the rest of the football pyramid. Owners now have clubs with massive losses and now a glass ceiling on where they can go. 
    By success for all, you mean they will make lots of money 
    Making lots of money is the only reason anyone does anything in football ownership. This is not a community sport anymore, it’s a citadel for corruption and greed.
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,593
    WSS said:
    I really hope this shifts to us adopting the 50+1 model they have in Germany.
    Isn't that a magazine (so I'm told)
  • ElliotCAFC
    ElliotCAFC Posts: 2,552
    jacob_CAFC said:
    ElliotCAFC said:
    This will be a resounding success for those involved. The market in the east means clubs no longer need the Premier League, if anything, the Premier League is a stumbling block on the road to a financial utopia. They control the rules, revenue and ultimately football.

    In 50 years time younger generations won’t understand what all the fuss was about. You can see it now, 12 year olds saying Messi was overrated because he never did it in the Super League. 

    Seriously concerning for the rest of the football pyramid. Owners now have clubs with massive losses and now a glass ceiling on where they can go. 
    Yeah I think even if this doesn't go through in the way it is being proposed, the fact that they have gone this far is not a good omen for the future. 
    Unless something big happens to stop this, e.g legislature then it'll eventually happen exactly how they want it 
    It simply has to happen, unless there’s a seismic shift in the way our culture relates to consumerism or realigns our values towards community’s rather than corporate greed - it’s too good a deal to turn down. 

    Fully expect UEFA, FIFA and the domestic leagues to bottle it and allow them to do what they want. They can’t afford to lose those teams. 
  • iaitch
    iaitch Posts: 10,219
    edited April 2021
    DaveMehmet said:
    WSS said:
    I really hope this shifts to us adopting the 50+1 model they have in Germany.
    Isn't that a magazine (so I'm told)
    Is that the one where all the women are over fifty or their chest size is or both?

    Asking for a friend.
  • O-Randy-Hunt
    O-Randy-Hunt Posts: 10,633
    killerandflash said:
    O-Randy-Hunt said:
    killerandflash said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Ross said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    When issue I haven't seen talked out much is how this will change the transfer market between the clubs involved.  In the scheme of things there isn't much activity between them, it is more common in Italy though.

    But when you have a player like Haaland you end up with a bidding way between 3 or 4 of them.  It might not increase the fee Dortmund get but it drives the wages and agents slice up through the roof because they are all scared the other one will get him.

    If the "prize money" is guaranteed there isn't that arms race is there?  They could even buy him from Dortmund and "give" him to the team, out of the 12, that finishes lowest. 
    Assuming he wants to go there. If the ban from players playing for their national teams is enforced, he might see that as a deal breaker.
    Only using him as an example but he is never going to win the world cup, even if a ban was enforced it won't last long anyway, and he isn't going to be able earn anything comparable if he doesn't go there.

    It's amazing what people will do for a million quid a week. 
    Once people earn a certain amount, is money really such a driver?

    £200k a week equates to around £10m pa before tax. And that's before commercial endorsements etc

    At that level of income, I'd be thinking about personal (and family) happiness, winning trophies, "reputational legacy" etc as much as another £10m, success with your country being an important part of that. And doing the "right thing" too, thinking about the likes of Marcus Rashford with his campaigning last year.
    I always think that too but we havent lived the life of someone on 200k pw. Just like you I think why would I need to go and play somewhere else for 400k pw when I'm happy playing here for 200k pw.

    I guess we will never know but I think players will look at that as doubling their money and giving even more security to more generations to come through the family.
    But then moving clubs and uprooting your family may cause them unhappiness, ditto leaving the wife and kids behind and living in another country by yourself
    Yea I completely agree. I wonder how many of these players love playing for their country if they are told you can play in the super league for xxx amount per week but not for your country.
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,750
    addick1956 said:
    seth plum said:
    Arsenal are using a legacy leg up, because when they first entered the top division it wasn’t based on sporting achievement then either.
    They got voted in having finished 5th. Par for the course.
    I was trying to explain this to a friend of my son's yesterday before I even heard of these new proposals. He was wearing an Arsenal shirt, Man City shorts and a Barcelona tracksuit top.

  • iaitch
    iaitch Posts: 10,219
    jimmymelrose said:
    addick1956 said:
    seth plum said:
    Arsenal are using a legacy leg up, because when they first entered the top division it wasn’t based on sporting achievement then either.
    They got voted in having finished 5th. Par for the course.
    I was trying to explain this to a friend of my son's yesterday before I even heard of these new proposals. He was wearing an Arsenal shirt, Man City shorts and a Barcelona tracksuit top.

    Deserves a damn good hiding.
  • ElliotCAFC
    ElliotCAFC Posts: 2,552
    Algarveaddick said:
    ElliotCAFC said:
    This will be a resounding success for those involved. The market in the east means clubs no longer need the Premier League, if anything, the Premier League is a stumbling block on the road to a financial utopia. They control the rules, revenue and ultimately football.

    In 50 years time younger generations won’t understand what all the fuss was about. You can see it now, 12 year olds saying Messi was overrated because he never did it in the Super League. 

    Seriously concerning for the rest of the football pyramid. Owners now have clubs with massive losses and now a glass ceiling on where they can go. 
    Not if steps I suggest are taken. I would actually go further. The five clubs that they deign to drop some crumbs for are either not allowed back in their domestic league, or made to start again at the lowest professional level. 

    12 year olds parents have to stand solid as well and refuse to pander to the little glory hunting horrors...  :D    
    It’s a nice idea but it won’t happen unfortunately. The Premier League is just as corrupt and greedy as the rest of them, they can’t afford to lose the teams and replace them with the likes of Barnsley and Brentford. 

    I imagine there will be a last minute compromise and this will replace the Champions League.
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 35,994
    Talal said:
    Can't disagree with his words, but he plays for PSG who've opted not to take part, most likely only because of their Qatari owners not wanting to rock the boat ahead of the Qatar world cup. I've no doubt once that world cup is over PSG will be signing up.

    It'll mean a lot more when top players at the 12 clubs come out against the ESL.

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