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Royal Tavern Mottingham
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when ian drove mini bus back from blackburn in cup i sat next to him for about 5 hours.you would know my face but i don't get to have a booze at games because i take my littlen.0
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Know who you are mate now.Hope you are ok0
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It was brilliant0
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Ah, the ambience! Gazing lazily out at turquiose waves lapping at a sun drenched bay, the faint waft of mandolin gently blowing in on a hot Mediterranean afternoon...
Where are the diesel fumes, dog shit and old cans of Stella going to go?11 -
And a nice wall of glass so the customers can have a clear view of the bloke getting shot in the head in the cafe over the road.11
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Would probably be better to do this with the Porcupine.1
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Hopefully they will also offer al fresco dining, so that smokers can pop across to the petrol station for 20 silk cut and some rizlas.
I watched much of the 1990 World Cup in The Royal. A typical match night saw glasses smashed, deals done and CS gas released. It was fun though....2 -
i did as well - all the curtains got pulled down when we missed that penalty - switched to the greyhound for 96 - didn't have curtains, was like a moshpit cave but brilliant fun 'mcmannaman der der der der sung to the muppets tune a particular fave - what a travesty that was when they turned that into an indian restaurantSporadicAddick said:Hopefully they will also offer al fresco dining, so that smokers can pop across to the petrol station for 20 silk cut and some rizlas.
I watched much of the 1990 World Cup in The Royal. A typical match night saw glasses smashed, deals done and CS gas released. It was fun though....0 -
Jeez, 14 years later and I’m still posting the same old shit (occasionally).Curb_It said:northstandsteve,
russ that you mentioned yesterday posts on here occasionally, well he's registered, you might know that anyway.
i love lee, he did me a big favour once... tho i might think differently in years to come!!6 - Sponsored links:
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I used to drink in there regularly with Tav and various other reprobates.
Good times.
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Whilst the owner popped into the shop next door for a pint of milk.SuedeAdidas said:And a nice wall of glass so the customers can have a clear view of the bloke getting shot in the head in the cafe over the road.0 -
My old man spent many an hour in the Royal and knew Tavern .
it was 100 yards up the road from where I lived .Lee Grain was top man and I had to be still pissed from the Saturday night to play in the same team as that lunatic2 -
The first local I used to frequent as a teenager. Lived on Leysdown Road growing up.0
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Not the best spot for a restaurant, as others have said the old Porcupine would probably be better positioned.
But it's becoming a fact that pubs in many areas are closing and will be gone for good, not enough people just want to go for a beer/wine etc other than the younger crowd on a Friday/Saturday night. As the nation looks to it's health more then it'll only seek to close more and more pubs, especially inner city.
Pubs need to reinvent themselves if they are to survive and it very much depends on location. Whether that's food, live music or something else I don't know but society's habits change and the days of enough people going for a beer on a Wednesday evening just don't happen like it used to.2 -
Something like 30% of UK adults are obese so I think that it's price (tax) driven more than anything else. People are just buying from a supermarket and drinking indoors instead.Rob7Lee said:Not the best spot for a restaurant, as others have said the old Porcupine would probably be better positioned.
But it's becoming a fact that pubs in many areas are closing and will be gone for good, not enough people just want to go for a beer/wine etc other than the younger crowd on a Friday/Saturday night. As the nation looks to it's health more then it'll only seek to close more and more pubs, especially inner city.
Pubs need to reinvent themselves if they are to survive and it very much depends on location. Whether that's food, live music or something else I don't know but society's habits change and the days of enough people going for a beer on a Wednesday evening just don't happen like it used to.
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Is there more tax on a pint in a pub than on a pint bought in a Supermarket then? I agree on price, £5 for a pint compared to super market prices, but don't think it's tax as such.sinking feesh said:
Something like 30% of UK adults are obese so I think that it's price (tax) driven more than anything else. People are just buying from a supermarket and drinking indoors instead.Rob7Lee said:Not the best spot for a restaurant, as others have said the old Porcupine would probably be better positioned.
But it's becoming a fact that pubs in many areas are closing and will be gone for good, not enough people just want to go for a beer/wine etc other than the younger crowd on a Friday/Saturday night. As the nation looks to it's health more then it'll only seek to close more and more pubs, especially inner city.
Pubs need to reinvent themselves if they are to survive and it very much depends on location. Whether that's food, live music or something else I don't know but society's habits change and the days of enough people going for a beer on a Wednesday evening just don't happen like it used to.0 -
Pubs need to make a margin on beer to operate - supermarkets can work on much lower margins as they can earn on the 30,000 other products in store.Rob7Lee said:
Is there more tax on a pint in a pub than on a pint bought in a Supermarket then? I agree on price, £5 for a pint compared to super market prices, but don't think it's tax as such.sinking feesh said:
Something like 30% of UK adults are obese so I think that it's price (tax) driven more than anything else. People are just buying from a supermarket and drinking indoors instead.Rob7Lee said:Not the best spot for a restaurant, as others have said the old Porcupine would probably be better positioned.
But it's becoming a fact that pubs in many areas are closing and will be gone for good, not enough people just want to go for a beer/wine etc other than the younger crowd on a Friday/Saturday night. As the nation looks to it's health more then it'll only seek to close more and more pubs, especially inner city.
Pubs need to reinvent themselves if they are to survive and it very much depends on location. Whether that's food, live music or something else I don't know but society's habits change and the days of enough people going for a beer on a Wednesday evening just don't happen like it used to.
A supermarket can sell beer at and even below cost to drive footfall. For obvious reasons a pub couldn't sell beer below cost, unless it had a roaring trade in expensive pickled onions. Weatherspoons are the closest on price to supermarkets, and that is only driven by the scale of their operation. Their prices wouldn't sustain a single pub or small chain.
There are loads of other factors (rates, beer ties etc etc) that also have a significant impact.8 -
Yup - was my first local too. I was dragged up on the mean streets of Middle Park in the 70s / 80s and the Royal was the local choice once the Yorkshire Grey closed.cafctom said:The first local I used to frequent as a teenager. Lived on Leysdown Road growing up.0 -
I had a few pints in there growing up on Coldharbour.cafctom said:The first local I used to frequent as a teenager. Lived on Leysdown Road growing up.
My uncle Joe Bloomfield practically lived in the Royal.
He was a big Charlton fan and he once (maybe twice or even more times) said he was at the Valley when there was ""77,000 inside and 70,000 outside trying to get in".
All bollocks really but I used to like hearing the story.
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A lot of young people might go out on a Friday/Saturday night but I do suspect that the prevalence of smartphones, social media, Playstations, Netflix etc make it easier for people to stay in touch and occupied without having to move.
The world moves on, but it’s quite sad really that places of communal gathering just aren’t high on the list for a lot of people.
Its one of the reasons why I hope live Charlton match coverage ceases after the pandemic is over - the past time of going to watch your local side in the flesh needs to be protected2 -
I used the the tav in the mid 70s. It was a good crowd. I worked behind the jump in the grey too.0
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Used to go in their regularly purely because they were the only pub in the area who had an Asteroid game machine.
Mate and I would walk a couple of miles just to play it!2 -
Lee’s a top bloke, used to go with him to Charlton and England games regularly. Poland away in 91 was a highlight, we got a train back through Berlin, then onto Amsterdam. Don’t think he stopped drinking all journey and was shit faced when we got to Amsterdam. Most of us had managed to get some kip so threw out bags in the hotel and went out. Last saw him in a coffee shop around 10pm and he never made it back to the hotel. Found him in the station cafe the next morning, he hadn’t a clue where he’d been.oohaahmortimer said:My old man spent many an hour in the Royal and knew Tavern .
it was 100 yards up the road from where I lived .Lee Grain was top man and I had to be still pissed from the Saturday night to play in the same team as that lunatic
One thing you could guarantee when you went to a game with Lee was that you’d have a bloody good laugh, win or lose.0 -
As oohaah mentioned, Lee played for our Sunday side for a while.DaveMehmet said:
Lee’s a top bloke, used to go with him to Charlton and England games regularly. Poland away in 91 was a highlight, we got a train back through Berlin, then onto Amsterdam. Don’t think he stopped drinking all journey and was shit faced when we got to Amsterdam. Most of us had managed to get some kip so threw out bags in the hotel and went out. Last saw him in a coffee shop around 10pm and he never made it back to the hotel. Found him in the station cafe the next morning, he hadn’t a clue where he’d been.oohaahmortimer said:My old man spent many an hour in the Royal and knew Tavern .
it was 100 yards up the road from where I lived .Lee Grain was top man and I had to be still pissed from the Saturday night to play in the same team as that lunatic
One thing you could guarantee when you went to a game with Lee was that you’d have a bloody good laugh, win or lose.
I'm sure he’d be the first to admit that his footballing ability was a tad limited, but Christ almighty, some of the agricultural tackles he made were legendary.
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Top pub.3
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Unless pubs start to offer something other than a pint and a bit of food they will continue to decline in numbers as more and more people don't see the value in paying £5+ for a drink they can buy elsewhere for probably less than £1.SporadicAddick said:
Pubs need to make a margin on beer to operate - supermarkets can work on much lower margins as they can earn on the 30,000 other products in store.Rob7Lee said:
Is there more tax on a pint in a pub than on a pint bought in a Supermarket then? I agree on price, £5 for a pint compared to super market prices, but don't think it's tax as such.sinking feesh said:
Something like 30% of UK adults are obese so I think that it's price (tax) driven more than anything else. People are just buying from a supermarket and drinking indoors instead.Rob7Lee said:Not the best spot for a restaurant, as others have said the old Porcupine would probably be better positioned.
But it's becoming a fact that pubs in many areas are closing and will be gone for good, not enough people just want to go for a beer/wine etc other than the younger crowd on a Friday/Saturday night. As the nation looks to it's health more then it'll only seek to close more and more pubs, especially inner city.
Pubs need to reinvent themselves if they are to survive and it very much depends on location. Whether that's food, live music or something else I don't know but society's habits change and the days of enough people going for a beer on a Wednesday evening just don't happen like it used to.
A supermarket can sell beer at and even below cost to drive footfall. For obvious reasons a pub couldn't sell beer below cost, unless it had a roaring trade in expensive pickled onions. Weatherspoons are the closest on price to supermarkets, and that is only driven by the scale of their operation. Their prices wouldn't sustain a single pub or small chain.
There are loads of other factors (rates, beer ties etc etc) that also have a significant impact.
In many respects it's a bit like online shopping, people are seeing the value in not going to the shops.
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Food is, of course, the route most pubs have gone down. For many traditional "wet led" pubs, often at the heart of the community, this isn't feasible. Therefore they won't survive. Some people wont be bothered by that, many will.Rob7Lee said:
Unless pubs start to offer something other than a pint and a bit of food they will continue to decline in numbers as more and more people don't see the value in paying £5+ for a drink they can buy elsewhere for probably less than £1.SporadicAddick said:
Pubs need to make a margin on beer to operate - supermarkets can work on much lower margins as they can earn on the 30,000 other products in store.Rob7Lee said:
Is there more tax on a pint in a pub than on a pint bought in a Supermarket then? I agree on price, £5 for a pint compared to super market prices, but don't think it's tax as such.sinking feesh said:
Something like 30% of UK adults are obese so I think that it's price (tax) driven more than anything else. People are just buying from a supermarket and drinking indoors instead.Rob7Lee said:Not the best spot for a restaurant, as others have said the old Porcupine would probably be better positioned.
But it's becoming a fact that pubs in many areas are closing and will be gone for good, not enough people just want to go for a beer/wine etc other than the younger crowd on a Friday/Saturday night. As the nation looks to it's health more then it'll only seek to close more and more pubs, especially inner city.
Pubs need to reinvent themselves if they are to survive and it very much depends on location. Whether that's food, live music or something else I don't know but society's habits change and the days of enough people going for a beer on a Wednesday evening just don't happen like it used to.
A supermarket can sell beer at and even below cost to drive footfall. For obvious reasons a pub couldn't sell beer below cost, unless it had a roaring trade in expensive pickled onions. Weatherspoons are the closest on price to supermarkets, and that is only driven by the scale of their operation. Their prices wouldn't sustain a single pub or small chain.
There are loads of other factors (rates, beer ties etc etc) that also have a significant impact.
In many respects it's a bit like online shopping, people are seeing the value in not going to the shops.
It depends on your view of the role the pub has, and continues, to play in society. I think it has an important role, moreso than ever now.
There are measures the government can take to support the pub in the face of the competitive onslaugh they have faced for the last 30 years.
- Sort out the tie. Remove the ability of property companies that resulted from the Beer Orders of 1989 to effectively force pubs out of business (see separate thread about The White Swan) by reforming the tie principle.
- Make pubs assets of community value
- Reduce (or remove) VAT for the on trade to close the gap between on and off trade pricing (and increase VAT on supermarket sales)
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or put a tax on Alcohol bought in shops and super markets, which will also help reduce alcoholism. Down side I admit will be smuggling and illicit brewing and stills.1
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This is very much like the post/topic about online retailers, which companies like Tesco's are calling for to be taxed heavier to even up the playing field with the high street.
Alcohol has the same tax wherever you buy it, but guess you are looking for a greater tax for non pubs/lesser tax for pubs.
Peoples habits have changed and will continue to on things like alcohol, smoking, the types of food we eat and not least the money we have to spend and where we wish to spend it. I've never been convinced that tax will help people not smoke or not drink etc, it's in the main education that's done that, not tax.
Some pubs will survive, but like @SporadicAddick says many won't which will please some people and upset others. Covid will have sped up that decline, and to be honest I struggle to see any of the pubs around me playing an important role in the community and many, like the pub in question here, had been hanging on barely for years.
The Swan was sad to see go, but it became unviable at anywhere approaching the rent the owner wanted, who no doubt hiked it up so far to make it non viable as it's worth more to them not as a pub.0
