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Has Bowyer lost it?
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Can we afford it? Of course we can - in my edit I pointed out it took us three seasons to get out of this league both times we were last down here. I think Sandgaard will want and expect better but there are 23 other clubs that get a say in it too.Dazzler21 said:
Can we afford to fail both this season and next?Callumcafc said:
This is bang on the money. Everyone wants everything instantly in this day and age - it doesn't work like that I'm afraid. Bowyer has earned the opportunity to get a proper season with backing from a proper owner. And no, that earned season is not this season. Putting together a squad in two weeks in the middle of a pandemic does not constitute a proper crack at it.ColinTat said:It wouldn't be acceptable if we had to sell our best player to build a stand? It wouldn't be acceptable if we had to rebuild a squad after losing all our major players? The 90-91 to 92-93 squads had continuity, only forced to sell Rob Lee: Can't think of many others moving on to better things. Andy Peake and Gordon Watson? From 18-19 to 20-21 we have none of our main players left barring Pearce.
Jackett's had four seasons to build a squad in League One. Sunderland three. Robinson had two and got nowhere near. We should be better, but expecting everything to click in one season without anywhere near proper planning is crazy.
If it looks like we're getting nowhere by Christmas, then let's reassess.
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No guarantee but a better chance will do.3
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But will the better man mean we have a better chance all of a sudden?MuttleyCAFC said:No guarantee but a better chance will do.
We went from Parkinson to Powell which saw us nose dive quicker than a German U-Boat - We wont have another summer were we can spend £1m on players offering them whatever wages they want because of this damn cap.2 -
We got relegated last season through Bowyer’s negativity but he got a free hit because the club was a shit show. He’s skating on very, very thin ice now.24
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I could fathom why people would be defending Bowyer if we stuck with the same players, same formation and gave it a good go like we did in the recent set of games.
What I don't get is how people just seem to overlook the wierd decisions. Would another manger have chopped and changed his front two so often, or dropped players the next game after they put in MoM performances the game before, or made so many half time subs or reverted to a brand of football where we needed to have Darren Pratley being the player having to turn defence into attack?
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I'm saying I keep seeing "It's League One" as in it's only league one we should be doing better. What are you on about we shouldn't be allowed to have a manager who can achieve promotion? We've got one who's already achieved it a couple of years ago and I'm saying the realism is this is football, nothings for granted and We've got it wrong this year but change doesn't mean we will be any better. He needs timeMuttleyCAFC said:
So we shouldn't be allowed to have a manager who can achieve it. Be realistic and put up with shite!agim said:
You were saying it like we have the right to automatically get promoted. We don't and some of our fans need to be realistic.Todds_right_hook said:
Okay, let’s pretend we aren’t currently in league 1agim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above1 -
I agree we are well off this year but In my eyes he deserves more time and to re-build. I don't want to be a sacking clubLargeAddick said:
Of course we don’t have an automatic right to get promoted but it would be nice to see some semblance of a settled team, some semblance of a game plan, some idea of tactics. I don’t have a problem losing but at least give them a game. I’m done with Bowyer.agim said:
You were saying it like we have the right to automatically get promoted. We don't and some of our fans need to be realistic.Todds_right_hook said:
Okay, let’s pretend we aren’t currently in league 1agim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above3 -
He’s always reactive not proactive. Bring Millar on when chasing the game, why not start him and get two goals ahead if he can only do 45 minutes?12
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He obviously thought the likes of Shinnie, JFC and Morgan were enough to create chances. I do feel he's been let down badly but most players this year. Look at their last 2 goals so poor from our guysLargeAddick said:He’s always reactive not proactive. Bring Millar on when chasing the game, why not start him and get two goals ahead if he can only do 45 minutes?4 -
When Gilbey and Maddison are fit the goals will start flying in.........AddickUpNorth said:J BLOCK said:
It’s the manner of it. It’s also consistent now, shocking football, our only tactic seems to be lump it up top. Don’t get me started on the defence.cafcfan1990 said:
When did losing to Portsmouth become such a shocking result?StanTheMan said:Shocking result, as much as it hurts to say, but I am sorry but Bowyer has to be sacked, simply not good enough, had a massive opportunity to build a youthful team, and blew it with the old brigade who have not got the legs!
Yeah, but once we get Famewo and Innis back just watch us rocket up that table.4 -
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He is on a path to being sacked, that is how it is going to end. I've seen enough football to know when a manager has lost it. Maybe Lee can find it somewhere else, but for me it is a question of dragging this out or seeing if somebody else can turn THIS season around. Like Bowyer did when Robinson was sacked. Maybe you didn't think that was the right thing to do.agim said:
I agree we are well off this year but In my eyes he deserves more time and to re-build. I don't want to be a sacking clubLargeAddick said:
Of course we don’t have an automatic right to get promoted but it would be nice to see some semblance of a settled team, some semblance of a game plan, some idea of tactics. I don’t have a problem losing but at least give them a game. I’m done with Bowyer.agim said:
You were saying it like we have the right to automatically get promoted. We don't and some of our fans need to be realistic.Todds_right_hook said:
Okay, let’s pretend we aren’t currently in league 1agim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above9 -
But even Bowyer has come out today and said we have the players to get top 6, and that they will all fight for the shirt.agim said:
He obviously thought the likes of Shinnie, JFC and Morgan were enough to create chances. I do feel he's been let down badly but most players this year. Look at their last 2 goals so poor from our guysLargeAddick said:He’s always reactive not proactive. Bring Millar on when chasing the game, why not start him and get two goals ahead if he can only do 45 minutes?
Do you think that was a top 6 performance today?0 -
I dunno about that. I think the injuries played a HUGE partLargeAddick said:We got relegated last season through Bowyer’s negativity but he got a free hit because the club was a shit show. He’s skating on very, very thin ice now.1 -
Sod the comparisons with previous managers and look at the evidence in front of us - when was the last time we played a full 90 minutes as a cohesive unit? The tinkering with formations, player positions, tactics, inexplicably dropping players etc etc have created the problems we see week in week out - the defensive errors, wayward passes, poor positioning and over/underhit final balls are not just individual errors but a sign of a team lacking confidence and leadership on the pitch - caught in possession looking to find an out ball or lumping it long because there's no one moving into space or ahead of the full back. Players look unfamiliar with what is expected of them and the beating heart of the team - the engine room in midfield is pedestrian crab like and toothless. Management team need to take responsibility.13
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It was the right time for Robinson to go because he'd already had 18 months (74 games) at it in this league getting us nowhere. Bowyer's had six months (26 games).MuttleyCAFC said:
He is on a path to being sacked, that is how it is going to end. I've seen enough football to know when a manager has lost it. Maybe Lee can find it somewhere else, but for me it is a question of dragging this out or seeing if somebody else can turn THIS season around. Like Bowyer did when Robinson was sacked. Maybe you didn't think that was the right thing to do.agim said:
I agree we are well off this year but In my eyes he deserves more time and to re-build. I don't want to be a sacking clubLargeAddick said:
Of course we don’t have an automatic right to get promoted but it would be nice to see some semblance of a settled team, some semblance of a game plan, some idea of tactics. I don’t have a problem losing but at least give them a game. I’m done with Bowyer.agim said:
You were saying it like we have the right to automatically get promoted. We don't and some of our fans need to be realistic.Todds_right_hook said:
Okay, let’s pretend we aren’t currently in league 1agim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above
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Dunno guess you'd have to go back through each team and work it outFishCostaFortune said:I could fathom why people would be defending Bowyer if we stuck with the same players, same formation and gave it a good go like we did in the recent set of games.
What I don't get is how people just seem to overlook the wierd decisions. Would another manger have chopped and changed his front two so often, or dropped players the next game after they put in MoM performances the game before, or made so many half time subs or reverted to a brand of football where we needed to have Darren Pratley being the player having to turn defence into attack?
Its a bit like saying that only Charlton get injuries or crap owners without actually researching whats going on at other teams - As for Portsmouth, they made one or two changes after winning 4-0 against Wimbledon, lost to Hull, lost to Lincoln (no changes between those games) and then made four changes to their team ahead of tonight - You want to know the rest, you do the donkey work
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It's clear why Bowyer rotates his team so much. We are playing twice a week and are due to for several weeks.
We're a club with a shocking injury record in recent years. Bows trying to do something about that. If he kept with the same spine of team week in/week out and three of them got injured, it would be the same ppl up in arms that are moaning about him changing the starting 1111 -
It might not have been as bad as ESI but it wasn't exactly a picture of stability. There was good reason we wanted Roland out but perhaps that is being forgotten due to the shit show that followed.killerandflash said:
We weren't a mess 2 years ago. Yes Roland wanted out, but that had been drifting on for an eternity without really affecting anything. He was given a budget to bring in players, and he and Gallen were left along to assemble a decent team.IanJRO said:I think questioning Bows achievement to get us promoted is harsh to be honest when you consider the mess going on around him at the time. My concern is that he is looking like a great manager when in the trenches fighting but now things have settled down is clearly struggling.
I don't get the constant tinkering, and he needs to find his first choice 11 fast but given the backing he has just had I think he has a bit longer to turn things around. If we miss the playoffs then it's time for a change of approach.
The mess only really started with ESI. If Roland had owned us throughout 2019/20 I suspect we would have made a better fist of the second half of the season than what ESI caused
I thought after the Maddison injury comments it was time up for him but now he has been given the window to strengthen I think he probably has a couple of months to prove he can turn things round.
Personally I don't see things improving quickly enough and he'll be gone before the end of the season. Would love for him to prove me wrong though.5 -
When I say negativity think Birmingham away. 1-0 up, ten minutes to go, bring on extra defenders, drop too deep, concede a last minute goal. See that game out and we’d have stayed up. And that wasn’t an isolated incident.agim said:
I dunno about that. I think the injuries played a HUGE partLargeAddick said:We got relegated last season through Bowyer’s negativity but he got a free hit because the club was a shit show. He’s skating on very, very thin ice now.10 -
I do see what you're saying but like I said I'd like to see him stay until at least the end of the season.MuttleyCAFC said:
He is on a path to being sacked, that is how it is going to end. I've seen enough football to know when a manager has lost it. Maybe Lee can find it somewhere else, but for me it is a question of dragging this out or seeing if somebody else can turn THIS season around. Like Bowyer did when Robinson was sacked. Maybe you didn't think that was the right thing to do.agim said:
I agree we are well off this year but In my eyes he deserves more time and to re-build. I don't want to be a sacking clubLargeAddick said:
Of course we don’t have an automatic right to get promoted but it would be nice to see some semblance of a settled team, some semblance of a game plan, some idea of tactics. I don’t have a problem losing but at least give them a game. I’m done with Bowyer.agim said:
You were saying it like we have the right to automatically get promoted. We don't and some of our fans need to be realistic.Todds_right_hook said:
Okay, let’s pretend we aren’t currently in league 1agim said:
Another it's only League one quote.Todds_right_hook said:
This is league 1, an awful league one at that. On current former, bowyer is taking us to our worst league position in most Charlton supporters life times.ForeverAddickted said:Its potentially an interesting discussion for another thread
But is it a sign of how Technology has changed since 1992 what with the introduction of Internet Forums etc.
My point is in 1991/92 we finished 7th under Curbs and Gritt
The following year we had a period were we got 14-points from seventeen games, ended up 12th in the League
This season we're going through a period of 18-points from seventeen games
Should Curbs and Gritt have gone?Can’t really compare to grit and curbs in a league above1 -
Sponsored links:
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Ahh the beauty of hindsight again, that another poster wouldnt allow me to use last weekLargeAddick said:
When I say negativity think Birmingham away. 1-0 up, ten minutes to go, bring on extra defenders, drop too deep, concede a last minute goal. See that game out and we’d have stayed up. And that wasn’t an isolated incident.agim said:
I dunno about that. I think the injuries played a HUGE partLargeAddick said:We got relegated last season through Bowyer’s negativity but he got a free hit because the club was a shit show. He’s skating on very, very thin ice now. 0 -
Spitting feathers here but I think LB has to be given this season. We’re not getting a playoff spot and he now needs to show TS and us that he can get a squad of players performing to their level. I think that level should be top six but we’ve blown that. Show us that form Lee and you’ve earned yourself a shot next season. More of the same and we need to part ways. At this point I’m 50/50 as to any significant improvement this season. No evidence to hint at that.5
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I'm sick of hearing that the team or members of it let him down.
It's the managers job to support and lead his team to success. Leaders take the responsibility and the buck stops there. If he isn't happy with a performance issue he needs to do something that brings the performance up to scratch. If he can't do that, he can't do it.4 -
We’ve had a week off. There was no reason not to start Millar tonight.maddferrett said:It's clear why Bowyer rotates his team so much. We are playing twice a week and are due to for several weeks.
We're a club with a shocking injury record in recent years. Bows trying to do something about that. If he kept with the same spine of team week in/week out and three of them got injured, it would be the same ppl up in arms that are moaning about him changing the starting 11
bowyers lost it and needs to go1 -
This season is over and I don't blame Bowyer. We have no recognised centre backs to rely on. You can't win at football without a defence.
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Definitely not and I actually think he knows this team isn't good enough but obviously it would be suicide to admit it. If he's here that squad will get ripped apart in the summer.FishCostaFortune said:
But even Bowyer has come out today and said we have the players to get top 6, and that they will all fight for the shirt.agim said:
He obviously thought the likes of Shinnie, JFC and Morgan were enough to create chances. I do feel he's been let down badly but most players this year. Look at their last 2 goals so poor from our guysLargeAddick said:He’s always reactive not proactive. Bring Millar on when chasing the game, why not start him and get two goals ahead if he can only do 45 minutes?
Do you think that was a top 6 performance today?3 -
Fair comment about hindsight but Bowyers done it about 10 times since. That’s with hindsight!ForeverAddickted said:
Ahh the beauty of hindsight again, that another poster wouldnt allow me to use last weekLargeAddick said:
When I say negativity think Birmingham away. 1-0 up, ten minutes to go, bring on extra defenders, drop too deep, concede a last minute goal. See that game out and we’d have stayed up. And that wasn’t an isolated incident.agim said:
I dunno about that. I think the injuries played a HUGE partLargeAddick said:We got relegated last season through Bowyer’s negativity but he got a free hit because the club was a shit show. He’s skating on very, very thin ice now.0 -
You think he thinks he knows his team is not good enough, but does not want to say - so instead completely unprompted decided to mention that he thinks anything less than top 6 is a failure?agim said:
Definitely not and I actually think he knows this team isn't good enough but obviously it would be suicide to admit it. If he's here that squad will get ripped apart in the summer.FishCostaFortune said:
But even Bowyer has come out today and said we have the players to get top 6, and that they will all fight for the shirt.agim said:
He obviously thought the likes of Shinnie, JFC and Morgan were enough to create chances. I do feel he's been let down badly but most players this year. Look at their last 2 goals so poor from our guysLargeAddick said:He’s always reactive not proactive. Bring Millar on when chasing the game, why not start him and get two goals ahead if he can only do 45 minutes?
Do you think that was a top 6 performance today?
I'm going to bed.2 -
But how do you know the decision that resulted in a draw at Shrewsbury and Swindon etc. wouldnt have been worse had Bowyer done differently?Bolderhumphreyreid said:
Fair comment about hindsight but Bowyers done it about 10 times since. That’s with hindsight!ForeverAddickted said:
Ahh the beauty of hindsight again, that another poster wouldnt allow me to use last weekLargeAddick said:
When I say negativity think Birmingham away. 1-0 up, ten minutes to go, bring on extra defenders, drop too deep, concede a last minute goal. See that game out and we’d have stayed up. And that wasn’t an isolated incident.agim said:
I dunno about that. I think the injuries played a HUGE partLargeAddick said:We got relegated last season through Bowyer’s negativity but he got a free hit because the club was a shit show. He’s skating on very, very thin ice now.1 -
The season is not over if we can go on a run. We are no worse off than when Robinson was sacked. A new manager can change the mood and that can be massive.1
This discussion has been closed.
