Has Bowyer lost it?

ElfsborgAddick said:

Dazzler21 said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it. 

Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.

So the 2 or 3 players unhappy can bugger off and Bowyer can 'reclaim' the dressing room.

No. A good manager would reclaim the dressing room by winning back his players trust.

F*** them, footballers are only in it for their own personal gain.

As are managers.

I had doubts whether Bowyer would change his approach to go more attacking after what we've seen this year and whether he was a bit permanently scarred by trying to scrap results because of us fighting relegation from the Championship, but these last 2 games have been promising for that. A more attacking way of playing, with hopefully Schwartz and Chuks to start playing next to each other more regularly and I can start to get a bit more excited about an uptick in form.

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it. 

Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.

Sorry I didn't realise you knew a player, I thought you was just speculating. To be honest though players will probably feel differently anyway. Maddison for example is probably going to be a lot more scathing of Bowyer than someone like Pratley would be. Obviously it's more likely to be truthful if it's being repeated by different players. I can only go on the evidence I witness which is that I thought he had lost the dressing room and then Tuesday showed that might not be true. Performances over the next few weeks will speak volumes either way. 

I know somebody who knows a player. What we have going for us is we have a strong squad. Players have been baffled by Bowyer's recent behaviours as have fans. Today was the most conventional starting eleven (round pegs in round holes) we have seen for a long while. Hopefully the penny is dropping.

The first time I have felt Bowyer has set the team correctly for so long with players in their best Positions considering we only had one CB available ( young Barker made two CB but Lee doesn't feel he is ready)

Now I stated last week Bowyer should keep the job until the end of season then Thomas Sandgaard can make decisions on did Bowyer get the best out of the players that were fit to play ? 

I never use the word "Dog shit" even though some of our performances have stank with players confused and with hesitant team play with no relationships anywhere over the field.

May be a hangover from last season but today was the first time I felt the manager and the team were on the same page.

Today felt like the Lee Bowyer from our last League 1 campaign.

I have always wanted Lee to stay until the end of season so we can see if our injuries improve and this window comes to fruition with Ronnie and Millar and getting at least one CB back to play alongside Oshilaja: 
never thought I say that but he has had two good games and looks like our number 3 CB after the injury proned Inniss and Famewo.

I always believe you can lose individuals in the dressing room and I can imagine after the slating of Williams ( nicest man in football) there had been some grumbles in the dressing room.

I just want the positive play on the front foot Bowyer back. we did today but next time we have 10 chances in a game can we score more than a freak corner !

Half a season to go.
Lee and the team can do better.

MuttleyCAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it. 

Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.

Sorry I didn't realise you knew a player, I thought you was just speculating. To be honest though players will probably feel differently anyway. Maddison for example is probably going to be a lot more scathing of Bowyer than someone like Pratley would be. Obviously it's more likely to be truthful if it's being repeated by different players. I can only go on the evidence I witness which is that I thought he had lost the dressing room and then Tuesday showed that might not be true. Performances over the next few weeks will speak volumes either way. 

I know somebody who knows a player. What we have going for us is we have a strong squad. Players have been baffled by Bowyer's recent behaviours as have fans. Today was the most conventional starting eleven (round pegs in round holes) we have seen for a long while. Hopefully the penny is dropping.

Ok but with respect it sounds like your backtracking a little. Previously it was he has lost the dressing room and now some players have just been baffled? There is a big difference between the two. 

Look, I am not going to give quotes but it was stronger than baffled. If you want more detail, he has upset players with his tactics and his treatment of fellow players. Is that more to your liking? 

ElfsborgAddick said:

Cafc43v3r said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

Dazzler21 said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it. 

Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.

So the 2 or 3 players unhappy can bugger off and Bowyer can 'reclaim' the dressing room.

No. A good manager would reclaim the dressing room by winning back his players trust.

F*** them, footballers are only in it for their own personal gain.

What do you think the manager is here for?  Some sort of act of charity? 

My comment was in reference to players, not the manager.

As an aside, of course Managers are after their own personal gain as well.  Although of course I reckon Bowyer is not so dependent on a pay packet.  I imagine he does not have to work again.

He's not exactly from that generation of player where he'll never have to work again.

ElfsborgAddick said:

Cafc43v3r said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

Dazzler21 said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it. 

Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.

So the 2 or 3 players unhappy can bugger off and Bowyer can 'reclaim' the dressing room.

No. A good manager would reclaim the dressing room by winning back his players trust.

F*** them, footballers are only in it for their own personal gain.

What do you think the manager is here for?  Some sort of act of charity? 

My comment was in reference to players, not the manager.

As an aside, of course Managers are after their own personal gain as well.  Although of course I reckon Bowyer is not so dependent on a pay packet.  I imagine he does not have to work again.

Neither do some of the players.  I would wager we have at least one player that earnt more from playing football than Bowyer did. 

99% of managers leave their job because one side doesn't show loyalty. Its a fact of life they either get sacked or get tapped up for another job.

In the last 40 years there has been 1 Charlton manager leave at the end of his contract.  There have been, at least, 20 players in the last 2 years. You can't apply one rule to one type and not the other. 

Cafc43v3r said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

Cafc43v3r said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

Dazzler21 said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it. 

Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.

So the 2 or 3 players unhappy can bugger off and Bowyer can 'reclaim' the dressing room.

No. A good manager would reclaim the dressing room by winning back his players trust.

F*** them, footballers are only in it for their own personal gain.

What do you think the manager is here for?  Some sort of act of charity? 

My comment was in reference to players, not the manager.

As an aside, of course Managers are after their own personal gain as well.  Although of course I reckon Bowyer is not so dependent on a pay packet.  I imagine he does not have to work again.

Neither do some of the players.  I would wager we have at least one player that earnt more from playing football than Bowyer did. 

99% of managers leave their job because one side doesn't show loyalty. Its a fact of life they either get sacked or get tapped up for another job.

In the last 40 years there has been 1 Charlton manager leave at the end of his contract.  There have been, at least, 20 players in the last 2 years. You can't apply one rule to one type and not the other. 

You will always get exceptions to the rule.

ElfsborgAddick said:

Cafc43v3r said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

Cafc43v3r said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

Dazzler21 said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Some people know it because it has got out of the dressing room to them. It would be more damaging to name names, but it is basically what Watt is saying. Do you think he is making it up? Do you think J Block was making up what he said? Do you think I have made up? I would be amazed if Sandgaard is not aware of the situation. 

Watt isn’t reliable because he’s got the hump about the Hackney comment and is as thick as shit. I do think your making it up because I think your speculating and making assumptions. For the record I think J Block was repeating what he was told. I have no doubt what Bowyer has done has caused an issue but the second half Tuesday also made a statement on it. 

Fair enough, that is your right. As I am not naming the player I know you have every right to say that. I know I am telling the truth and I am pretty sure who the player J Block has mentioned is (a different one). Neither player is Gilbey. I don't know who the players Watt has referred to are. They could be the two I know of or be different ones.

So the 2 or 3 players unhappy can bugger off and Bowyer can 'reclaim' the dressing room.

No. A good manager would reclaim the dressing room by winning back his players trust.

F*** them, footballers are only in it for their own personal gain.

What do you think the manager is here for?  Some sort of act of charity? 

My comment was in reference to players, not the manager.

As an aside, of course Managers are after their own personal gain as well.  Although of course I reckon Bowyer is not so dependent on a pay packet.  I imagine he does not have to work again.

Neither do some of the players.  I would wager we have at least one player that earnt more from playing football than Bowyer did. 

99% of managers leave their job because one side doesn't show loyalty. Its a fact of life they either get sacked or get tapped up for another job.

In the last 40 years there has been 1 Charlton manager leave at the end of his contract.  There have been, at least, 20 players in the last 2 years. You can't apply one rule to one type and not the other. 

You will always get exceptions to the rule.

Sorry do you mean Bowyer is the exception? 

SporadicAddick said:

soapboxsam said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Look, I am not going to give quotes but it was stronger than baffled. If you want more detail, he has upset players with his tactics and his treatment of fellow players. Is that more to your liking? 

I'm not ITK but know the dynamics of a sales meeting when the boss is giving verbals because of unreasonable high targets and also the dynamics of kids and their dads when you lose a League match and some dad's know better than you,
The Manager. Tough job at all levels.

I believe Muttley about the grumbles from the dressing room because I would've wanted a team meeting with the manager after a few weeks of the Manager slagging off individuals and not accepting any responsibility for bizarre decisions if I was a player.

In the 2nd half against Rochdale the players showed they cared and again today.

Football and sales are very emotive. Having the hump with managers is par for the course when you are not hitting targets or winning.

I hope it's not just Albie Morgan that has learn a lesson today. 

I wrote this on the "General Things That Annoy You" thread:-

""He's lost the dressing room". Generally used by people that have never been anywhere near a dressing room, or who don't understand the dynamics of teams and how they operate.

In one of my first management jobs I did in fact lose the "dressing room".  There was nothing I could have ever done to get it back.  Luckily my bosses moved me to another roll.

Throughout my career I have lost individuals, or they have lost me, some I have got back, some I have lost forever.

I think it's probably true that some players are concerned with somethings, some are pissed off and some are just confused.

I think "lost the dressing room", in its truest sense is what we saw at Chelase where the players were actively undermining the manager and not trying.  I don't think we have got close to that stage.

I do how ever think that the dressing room doesn't, currently, have 100% confidence in the managers choices. 

AFKABartram said:

You know, it’s Saturday night. Charlton have had a good away win in a fully spirited team performance. On another day we could easily have scored five. 

You have to ask yourself is this really the time to be continuing a ‘the manager has lost the dressing room’ debate.

Just enjoy your weekend. We won, and it’s been a while. 

You created this monster, don’t go all Frankenstein on us now!

esseffect said:

J BLOCK said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Look, I am not going to give quotes but it was stronger than baffled. If you want more detail, he has upset players with his tactics and his treatment of fellow players. Is that more to your liking? 

I don’t understand why people ‘lol’ this. 

Blind loyalty will get you nowhere. 

Blind loyalty of Bowyer? I just don’t see it to be honest. 

We’ve have terrible injuries that have derailed the season somewhat. 

If you can’t see how not having your best 11 (and then some) effects a team I Id call that blind 

If you don't have your best players, definitely don't play your less good players in stupid positions.

Cafc43v3r said:

SporadicAddick said:

soapboxsam said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Look, I am not going to give quotes but it was stronger than baffled. If you want more detail, he has upset players with his tactics and his treatment of fellow players. Is that more to your liking? 

I'm not ITK but know the dynamics of a sales meeting when the boss is giving verbals because of unreasonable high targets and also the dynamics of kids and their dads when you lose a League match and some dad's know better than you,
The Manager. Tough job at all levels.

I believe Muttley about the grumbles from the dressing room because I would've wanted a team meeting with the manager after a few weeks of the Manager slagging off individuals and not accepting any responsibility for bizarre decisions if I was a player.

In the 2nd half against Rochdale the players showed they cared and again today.

Football and sales are very emotive. Having the hump with managers is par for the course when you are not hitting targets or winning.

I hope it's not just Albie Morgan that has learn a lesson today. 

I wrote this on the "General Things That Annoy You" thread:-

""He's lost the dressing room". Generally used by people that have never been anywhere near a dressing room, or who don't understand the dynamics of teams and how they operate.

In one of my first management jobs I did in fact lose the "dressing room".  There was nothing I could have ever done to get it back.  Luckily my bosses moved me to another roll.

Throughout my career I have lost individuals, or they have lost me, some I have got back, some I have lost forever.

I think it's probably true that some players are concerned with somethings, some are pissed off and some are just confused.

I think "lost the dressing room", in its truest sense is what we saw at Chelase where the players were actively undermining the manager and not trying.  I don't think we have got close to that stage.

I do how ever think that the dressing room doesn't, currently, have 100% confidence in the managers choices. 

I think this is a fair summary. I'm not saying it can't happen, but in a large team of professional sportsmen it's rare..