people calling for bowyers head as if we’re not top 6 with a game in hand ffs give your head a check
who is calling for his head ?
I am. I'm done. Far too negative, no width, no pace, no creativity. We have some good players but WE ARE NOT A TEAM.
Took Williams off because he shirked a challenge (this has come from Bowyer via Louis Mendes). In the last 6 months Bowyer has taken Morgan off for not tracking back & Bogle for not running about enough.
Brilliant, Golfie calling Bowyer far too negative. The most ironic comment I've ever read/heard in my life.
(Although Bowyer is far too negative).
Funny, because when it comes to football I'm more positive than most. The reason why I'm seen as moany or negative on here is because football is such a simple game & the whole point is to score more goals than the opposition. Its not rocket science & is over complicated by formations & tactics. Get the ball forward & try to get it in the goal. How passing it backwards & sideways 10 times achieves that is beyond me.
I agree totally with Golfie on this. In today's game you only need a little knock to get the foul. Williams is the best at this. I don't understand why as a consequence managers don't encourage more dribbling, both in and outside the box. If just outside the box, run at it with the ball. The defenders will have to tackle and in today's game you have to be bloody good at tackling someone speedy and win the ball. In our team both Williams and Madison at this level should be winning us as many free kicks and penalties as Sterling and Salah. We don't even need this great striker that we are 'missing'. We have Madison to take the free kicks and Washington to score the penalties. As Golfie says it is more simple than we are making it. If Maradona was in our team, he'd look rubbish because he wouldn't be allowed to dribble and attack. He would be asked to get behind the ball, he'd be no good at tackling, and he'd be replaced by a defender. Wake up Bows!
So things have not gone our way for a few games so things are falling apart?
Well actually if Bowyer can't solve the problem soon it just might be.
Far from Bowyers biggest fan, tacticts can be boring and negative but heard hardly any moaning when we went on the 8 match unbeaten run.
Totally agree. But it's not me and you that call the shots. With the money he is investing in the club I think Thomas Sandgaard will be expecting nothing less than promotion this season.
N. Can someone remind me how much of this money Bowyer has seen.?
I suspect that the money he has seen is in securing so called Championship players at the upper end of the cap. We are not going to attract big money signings all the time we are in League 1 by virtue of that cap are we?
What does this ‘lost the dressing room’ actually mean? We had a run of games where we won and didn’t concede. We then had a break which coincided with the loss off the two centre backs pivotal to that run.
Five points from five games is a poor return. Much like 18 from 6 games is an amazing return. So, what do people think has happened in that time to lose a dressing room?
Bowyer had never been backward about challenging or criticising players. His character is such. But he has built amazing team ethos in the past so I’m not sure how he becomes such a poor man manager in a few weeks.
Like all teams we are having a bad run. We are still sixth and probably have one of the better infrastructures to build on in January.
Cullen, Gallacher, Field; all players from bigger and more successful clubs all eulogise over him. Let’s not look for anything other than this being a blip.
You ask what it means when the manager is said to have 'lost the dressing-room'. In several infamous cases, it means the manager is a piss-head, has become disorientated, and can't find his way around the ground.
Just throwing it out there, but when players are scared to make a mistake, they become over defensive... Like passing back to keeper when unpressured...
Think we need to find a way for our players to feel they can play.
I think they know they don't have the ability to get past opponents or to send long passes accurately. So they opt for the safe and easy option: pass back to a man who isn't marked. It's a bit sad to watch players on whom it has dawned: 'I'm not good enough'.
Just throwing it out there, but when players are scared to make a mistake, they become over defensive... Like passing back to keeper when unpressured...
Think we need to find a way for our players to feel they can play.
I think they know they don't have the ability to get past opponents or to send long passes accurately. So they opt for the safe and easy option: pass back to a man who isn't marked. It's a bit sad to watch players on whom it has dawned: 'I'm not good enough'.
They may currently believe they're not good enough, but most are. I'd be surprised if this continues seeing as we saw some decent football and were on a roll pre-intl break.
I think there is too much rotation. I know you cannot allow for injuries, but we will never be successful if we keep changing as many players as LB does. I know we have played a lot of games, but so have other teams and we see other teams playing regular settled teams apart from any injuries. Pearce has said that each section of the team need to be settled so players can get used to those playing near them.
I reckon Bowyer has little confidence in our forward players. He doesn’t expect us to be a team scoring 2 plus goals a game despite some decent providers in the team. I think he sees Aneke as an impact player but neither Bogle or Washington are good enough to be first choice.
But he believes we are good enough to get at least a draw in every game, hence the selection of Watson and Pratley. Ensure we concede rarely and try to get a win.
I think we will,and already may have, signed a goal scorer in January or at least have a few decent targets. It is where we are weakest and Bowyer will have told Sandgaard. It is obvious to us all. If we are around the top six in Jan then we will have a proper push for promotion. But we can’t do that with our current strikers. They are not strikers that get a team promoted.
The run before the international break has lulled us into thinking we could walk this league. Look at Peterborough’s recent form from being top a few weeks ago.
Bowyer is his own man. Like us all our qualities can also be our downfalls and let’s not pretend he isn’t realistic enough to know that Sandgaard expects a return on his spending.
I hope Bowyer sorts it but I don’t think he will be worrying about it. He will have a season long plan and in his mind maybe we are where he expects us to be at the moment.
If he has no confidence in the forward players, call back Davison and try something different. Try aneke and bogle up top together.
The aneke and bogle rotation is predictable and boring
I simply don't understand the appeal of Davison. I've watched every game he has played, and can't recall a single attempt on goal or significant impact he has made. In the upcoming window we surely must find a striker who actually scores.
Accrington are just below us on a tiny budget so the budget can't be used as an excuse. We're 15 games in now so the team should start bedding in.
They did have the pre-cap time to sign some players though, they also are building a side, whereas we've had to rebuild. Very different situations.
The situations are different but as a club they operate on a miniscule budget so it hacks me off when people refer to our budget as limited. The rebuilding aspect is fair enough but there are plenty of clubs in this division operating on a lower budget.
How long does the rebuilding excuse deserve to be trotted out as well? Presumably at some stage it can't be used?
Accrington are just below us on a tiny budget so the budget can't be used as an excuse. We're 15 games in now so the team should start bedding in.
They did have the pre-cap time to sign some players though, they also are building a side, whereas we've had to rebuild. Very different situations.
The situations are different but as a club they operate on a miniscule budget so it hacks me off when people refer to our budget as limited. The rebuilding aspect is fair enough but there are plenty of clubs in this division operating on a lower budget.
How long does the rebuilding excuse deserve to be trotted out as well? Presumably at some stage it can't be used?
For me if we're still looking inconsistent come the end of January and have continued to fall away from the top 6, then that'll be where I call us out as bottlers and the manager gets that blame too...
At the moment, we're a bit inconsistent and we're seeing the negativity of being afraid to concede cause mistakes and cost goals. That didn't happen just a few weeks back.
LB does not seem to know what his best team is. Far too much chopping and changing. Watson seems past it but LB seems to have blind faith in him. Pratley should be played in front of the back four with Morgan, Shinney, Williams , Maddison, Smyth the mid field alternative players. Up front needs strengthening and Piggot must be worth a gamble in the forthcoming window plus another. .
A mention re Josh Davison maybe good enough or not good enough, if he had played as many games as Bogle I am sure he would not be any worse, he has pace and is very strong and if given the ball in the right areas will score.
I think, and somebody may have said it previously, that Bowyer sends his team out not to lose rather than sending them out to win. It doesn't seem to matter if we're playing a team in the top, middle or bottom of the league or whether we're playing home or away.
I think, and somebody may have said it previously, that Bowyer sends his team out not to lose rather than sending them out to win. It doesn't seem to matter if we're playing a team in the top, middle or bottom of the league or whether we're playing home or away.
A mention re Josh Davison maybe good enough or not good enough, if he had played as many games as Bogle I am sure he would not be any worse, he has pace and is very strong and if given the ball in the right areas will score.
Why not have him as an additional option rather than instead of? Could have been a useful replacement for the injured Smyth (admittedly a very different player)
Pearce and Famewo will make us more solid at the back (especially if Mathews come back in) and we know we have limited options up top, with just three (largely) fit strikers. One thing that Lee Bowyer really has to do is to get the blend right in midfield.
As well as playing both Pratters and Watson on Saturday, the position was compounded by playing Forster-Caskey (a one-footed player if I ever saw one) on the right and Gilbey (a right-footer) on the left. The result was that they both wanted to check inside at every opportunity onto their stronger foot, making our play even more narrow and lacking in width. It’s different from playing a left-sided winger on the right, who can cut in and shoot - e.g.Doughty, Maddison or, 20 odd years ago, John Robinson, who usually started on the left.
Maatsen is an option further forward to give us some much needed pace and Bowyer really needs to decide upon his best combination alongside Pratley or Watson (not both). Morgan, Shinnie and Gilbey (who should get better after his two months out) are good players at this level and the management need to find a way of combining them in an effective way. The same, of course, applies to Maddison, although I expect he’ll be deployed as an impact substitute for the next week or two until he gets properly up to speed.
Accrington are just below us on a tiny budget so the budget can't be used as an excuse. We're 15 games in now so the team should start bedding in.
They did have the pre-cap time to sign some players though, they also are building a side, whereas we've had to rebuild. Very different situations.
They have half a dozen players on loan from Chelsea (3), Newcastle (2) and Watford (1). Only 17 have started for them in the League whereas we've had 28.
9 out of that 17 were with Accrington last season whereas 11 (excluding Bonne, Lapslie and Oztumer) of our 28 were with us:
Amos Matthews Oshilaja Pearce Purrington Pratley JFC Morgan Williams Doughty Aneke
That suggests that not only do they have a smaller squad than Accrington but that they do not rotate and have not suffered injuries to the same degree. And that we have a lot more options too.
Pearce and Famewo will make us more solid at the back (especially if Mathews come back in) and we know we have limited options up top, with just three (largely) fit strikers. One thing that Lee Bowyer really has to do is to get the blend right in midfield.
As well as playing both Pratters and Watson on Saturday, the position was compounded by playing Forster-Caskey (a one-footed player if I ever saw one) on the right and Gilbey (a right-footer) on the left. The result was that they both wanted to check inside at every opportunity onto their stronger foot, making our play even more narrow and lacking in width. It’s different from playing a left-sided winger on the right, who can cut in and shoot - e.g.Doughty, Maddison or, 20 odd years ago, John Robinson, who usually started on the left.
Maatsen is an option further forward to give us some much needed pace and Bowyer really needs to decide upon his best combination alongside Pratley or Watson (not both). Morgan, Shinnie and Gilbey (who should get better after his two months out) are good players at this level and the management need to find a way of combining them in an effective way. The same, of course, applies to Maddison, although I expect he’ll be deployed as an impact substitute for the next week or two until he gets properly up to speed.
I'm not sure Robinson played on the left because Curbs wanted him to cut him, but more that we had other players who could play on the right like Shaun Newton
Playing JFC on the right was odd, especially as last season he looked quite good as a left wing back
Accrington are just below us on a tiny budget so the budget can't be used as an excuse. We're 15 games in now so the team should start bedding in.
They did have the pre-cap time to sign some players though, they also are building a side, whereas we've had to rebuild. Very different situations.
They have half a dozen players on loan from Chelsea (3), Newcastle (2) and Watford (1). Only 17 have started for them in the League whereas we've had 28.
9 out of that 17 were with Accrington last season whereas 11 (excluding Bonne, Lapslie and Oztumer) of our 28 were with us:
Amos Matthews Oshilaja Pearce Purrington Pratley JFC Morgan Williams Doughty Aneke
That suggests that not only do they have a smaller squad than Accrington but that they do not rotate and have not suffered injuries to the same degree. And that we have a lot more options too.
Too many options can be as difficult as not enough.
I haven't suddenly turned on Bowyer. Up to the last January window I was very supportive as I appreciated the injury crisis was a disaster. I did pick up on a few little things that I thought might be more about him than managing. Things like not selecting enough subs when he could have even if they were U-21 players for experience. Nothing major though and at the time understandable.
Then I was a bit annoyed with Bowyer at the press conference with Southall when he said that he was having to play Gallagher more than he would like due to injuries. I thought that was incredibly stupid. And he did it again recently saying we have to be careful with Smyth because he is a QPR player!!!!!
I then started getting frustrated after the resumption after the first lockdown. He seemed to be continuing the ultra negative tactics, which I supported previously, despite having players back and a few additions. It was like he was stuck in this rut. I thought he underplayed Aneke who looked really good every time I saw him (although this may have been on medical advice to be fair).
Sheff Wednesday was a game where anybody who follows football knows that you attack them and 99 times out of a hundred you beat them when a team is in that sort of rut. Bowyer decided to set up for a draw which was totally wrong for me. Birmingham was his fault and he just seemed to me to be a different personality to the person who took us up.
Letting Fosu go, who I really rated, seemed like an inflexibility on Bowyer's part and I feel like similar is happening with Williams. He seems to have his favourites and players that get on his nerves. His interviews seem far more negative. Gone is the Bowyer who predicted we would get promoted when he first came in. Despite that always being a challenge. Now he seems to be a manager who underplays things. I saw his interview saying 5 subs wouldn't help us which was ridiculously negative.
When we started our Championship campaign, Bowyer was very flexible tactically and this was effective. Now he seems stuck in a rut of playing the same way even when he doesn't have the personnel or it clearly isn't working.
Not one thing in isolation, but a number of things, some of them small that pile on top of each other that take me from viewing him as a potentially great manager, to now looking at a frustratingly negative manager. If I didn't see a different man when he took over I would imagine that is him. But something has definitely changed. Maybe understandably with all he has had to deal with, but he is not the same manager I was so excited about.
Publicly making scapegoats of players and even the fans is clearly a no no. Even if his anger with them is deserved, you don't do it in public. It is like him saying, it isn't me, it is him or it is them. Then saying we played well when we clearly didn't. It is weird.
I am for giving him a bit more time, but I find myself in the strange position of knowing that if he walked out tomorrow, I wouldn't be all that disappointed. My preference is to get the old Bowyer back. It must still be in there somewhere.
I think, and somebody may have said it previously, that Bowyer sends his team out not to lose rather than sending them out to win. It doesn't seem to matter if we're playing a team in the top, middle or bottom of the league or whether we're playing home or away.
I'd say not to concede, rather than not to lose.
Which is bonkers imo. You should go out to score more goals than your opponent......whether that is just 1 or 4. You certainly can't lose scoring more than them but you can not win by just not conceding.
Accrington are just below us on a tiny budget so the budget can't be used as an excuse. We're 15 games in now so the team should start bedding in.
They did have the pre-cap time to sign some players though, they also are building a side, whereas we've had to rebuild. Very different situations.
They have half a dozen players on loan from Chelsea (3), Newcastle (2) and Watford (1). Only 17 have started for them in the League whereas we've had 28.
9 out of that 17 were with Accrington last season whereas 11 (excluding Bonne, Lapslie and Oztumer) of our 28 were with us:
Amos Matthews Oshilaja Pearce Purrington Pratley JFC Morgan Williams Doughty Aneke
That suggests that not only do they have a smaller squad than Accrington but that they do not rotate and have not suffered injuries to the same degree. And that we have a lot more options too.
Too many options can be as difficult as not enough.
I was going to add that Dazzler but then I knew some bright spark would say look how short we've been at CB this season but then you can't legislate for 4 being out at the same time. We are actually overloaded in midfield - it's just that LB doesn't like to use 3 or 4 of those on a regular basis.
Funny how some of us change after a few games/ months. So are some of us starting to think Now we've got a new owner we might be able to get hold of a better manager?
Funny how some of us change after a few games/ months. So are some of us starting to think Now we've got a new owner we might be able to get hold of a better manager?
Not really Chris. We all want Bowyer to stay and be successful.
I want Bowyer to come out and say we are going to get promoted. Like he did when he started. We can have arguments on here about that being too optimistic, like we did at the time, but the Bowyer of today just wouldn't say it. I think that takes a lot away from a man who can perform near miracles, if he doubts he can anymore.
Pearce and Famewo will make us more solid at the back (especially if Mathews come back in) and we know we have limited options up top, with just three (largely) fit strikers. One thing that Lee Bowyer really has to do is to get the blend right in midfield.
As well as playing both Pratters and Watson on Saturday, the position was compounded by playing Forster-Caskey (a one-footed player if I ever saw one) on the right and Gilbey (a right-footer) on the left. The result was that they both wanted to check inside at every opportunity onto their stronger foot, making our play even more narrow and lacking in width. It’s different from playing a left-sided winger on the right, who can cut in and shoot - e.g.Doughty, Maddison or, 20 odd years ago, John Robinson, who usually started on the left.
Maatsen is an option further forward to give us some much needed pace and Bowyer really needs to decide upon his best combination alongside Pratley or Watson (not both). Morgan, Shinnie and Gilbey (who should get better after his two months out) are good players at this level and the management need to find a way of combining them in an effective way. The same, of course, applies to Maddison, although I expect he’ll be deployed as an impact substitute for the next week or two until he gets properly up to speed.
I'm not sure Robinson played on the left because Curbs wanted him to cut him, but more that we had other players who could play on the right like Shaun Newton
Playing JFC on the right was odd, especially as last season he looked quite good as a left wing back
I appreciate that the team had to accommodate Newton, who was very right-sided, and that was the main driver, although Robinson was very dangerous cutting in from the left. What a good midfield that was, with Kinsella and Keithy Jones in the middle and Newts and Robinson up and down the wide areas like a pair of turbo-charged pistons. They were all high quality players but the team had a settled system and way of playing, so that even if someone had to drop out through injury, a replacement (like Salako or Heaney) could slot in without disrupting the side as a whole.
These things take time - and it's doubly difficult with a mass turnover of players every season - but we do need to establish a more settled midfield formation and a way of playing, particularly offensively. Losing Doughty was very bad luck but we have to do better.
Comments
I don't understand why as a consequence managers don't encourage more dribbling, both in and outside the box. If just outside the box, run at it with the ball. The defenders will have to tackle and in today's game you have to be bloody good at tackling someone speedy and win the ball. In our team both Williams and Madison at this level should be winning us as many free kicks and penalties as Sterling and Salah. We don't even need this great striker that we are 'missing'. We have Madison to take the free kicks and Washington to score the penalties. As Golfie says it is more simple than we are making it.
If Maradona was in our team, he'd look rubbish because he wouldn't be allowed to dribble and attack. He would be asked to get behind the ball, he'd be no good at tackling, and he'd be replaced by a defender.
Wake up Bows!
How long does the rebuilding excuse deserve to be trotted out as well? Presumably at some stage it can't be used?
At the moment, we're a bit inconsistent and we're seeing the negativity of being afraid to concede cause mistakes and cost goals. That didn't happen just a few weeks back.
.
It doesn't seem to matter if we're playing a team in the top, middle or bottom of the league or whether we're playing home or away.
As well as playing both Pratters and Watson on Saturday, the position was compounded by playing Forster-Caskey (a one-footed player if I ever saw one) on the right and Gilbey (a right-footer) on the left. The result was that they both wanted to check inside at every opportunity onto their stronger foot, making our play even more narrow and lacking in width. It’s different from playing a left-sided winger on the right, who can cut in and shoot - e.g.Doughty, Maddison or, 20 odd years ago, John Robinson, who usually started on the left.
Maatsen is an option further forward to give us some much needed pace and Bowyer really needs to decide upon his best combination alongside Pratley or Watson (not both). Morgan, Shinnie and Gilbey (who should get better after his two months out) are good players at this level and the management need to find a way of combining them in an effective way. The same, of course, applies to Maddison, although I expect he’ll be deployed as an impact substitute for the next week or two until he gets properly up to speed.
9 out of that 17 were with Accrington last season whereas 11 (excluding Bonne, Lapslie and Oztumer) of our 28 were with us:
Amos
Matthews
Oshilaja
Pearce
Purrington
Pratley
JFC
Morgan
Williams
Doughty
Aneke
That suggests that not only do they have a smaller squad than Accrington but that they do not rotate and have not suffered injuries to the same degree. And that we have a lot more options too.
Playing JFC on the right was odd, especially as last season he looked quite good as a left wing back
Then I was a bit annoyed with Bowyer at the press conference with Southall when he said that he was having to play Gallagher more than he would like due to injuries. I thought that was incredibly stupid. And he did it again recently saying we have to be careful with Smyth because he is a QPR player!!!!!
I then started getting frustrated after the resumption after the first lockdown. He seemed to be continuing the ultra negative tactics, which I supported previously, despite having players back and a few additions. It was like he was stuck in this rut. I thought he underplayed Aneke who looked really good every time I saw him (although this may have been on medical advice to be fair).
Sheff Wednesday was a game where anybody who follows football knows that you attack them and 99 times out of a hundred you beat them when a team is in that sort of rut. Bowyer decided to set up for a draw which was totally wrong for me. Birmingham was his fault and he just seemed to me to be a different personality to the person who took us up.
Letting Fosu go, who I really rated, seemed like an inflexibility on Bowyer's part and I feel like similar is happening with Williams. He seems to have his favourites and players that get on his nerves. His interviews seem far more negative. Gone is the Bowyer who predicted we would get promoted when he first came in. Despite that always being a challenge. Now he seems to be a manager who underplays things. I saw his interview saying 5 subs wouldn't help us which was ridiculously negative.
When we started our Championship campaign, Bowyer was very flexible tactically and this was effective. Now he seems stuck in a rut of playing the same way even when he doesn't have the personnel or it clearly isn't working.
Not one thing in isolation, but a number of things, some of them small that pile on top of each other that take me from viewing him as a potentially great manager, to now looking at a frustratingly negative manager. If I didn't see a different man when he took over I would imagine that is him. But something has definitely changed. Maybe understandably with all he has had to deal with, but he is not the same manager I was so excited about.
Publicly making scapegoats of players and even the fans is clearly a no no. Even if his anger with them is deserved, you don't do it in public. It is like him saying, it isn't me, it is him or it is them. Then saying we played well when we clearly didn't. It is weird.
I am for giving him a bit more time, but I find myself in the strange position of knowing that if he walked out tomorrow, I wouldn't be all that disappointed. My preference is to get the old Bowyer back. It must still be in there somewhere.
So are some of us starting to think
Now we've got a new owner we might be able to get hold of a better manager?
We all want Bowyer to stay and be successful.
These things take time - and it's doubly difficult with a mass turnover of players every season - but we do need to establish a more settled midfield formation and a way of playing, particularly offensively. Losing Doughty was very bad luck but we have to do better.