I thought straight away that Bogle who didn't understand the offside rule all night attempted to touch the ball after the great header from Innes: I have no idea if he did have the faintest of touches but it looked like he was trying to claim it. If Bogle brain was in gear he would have pointed to Innes, saying your goal. The wind up was the Lino only putting his flag up after being berated by Maxwell, 10 seconds later. No VAR so why did the Lino wait if he thought Bogle touched the ball ? The angle from the Ass refs side would make it look like Bogle was interfering with play also.
After the nonsense with the Penalty offside which wasn't ruled out we are not getting the rub of the green.
That is why Lee Bowyer when straight down the tunnel as he would've told the lino where to put his flag.
I do wonder though if Bogle went for the ball as a natural Striker instinct from him in case the ball was going wide
e.g. How would we have reacted had he stood there (onside) only for it to go wide?
I thought straight away that Bogle who didn't understand the offside rule all night attempted to touch the ball after the great header from Innes: I have no idea if he did have the faintest of touches but it looked like he was trying to claim it. If Bogle brain was in gear he would have pointed to Innes, saying your goal. The wind up was the Lino only putting his flag up after being berated by Maxwell, 10 seconds later. No VAR so why did the Lino wait if he thought Bogle touched the ball ? The angle from the Ass refs side would make it look like Bogle was interfering with play also.
After the nonsense with the Penalty offside which wasn't ruled out we are not getting the rub of the green.
That is why Lee Bowyer when straight down the tunnel as he would've told the lino where to put his flag.
I do wonder though if Bogle went for the ball as a natural Striker instinct from him in case the ball was going wide
e.g. How would we have reacted had he stood there (onside) only for it to go wide?
I'm confident that is exactly what happened. Poor judgement on Bogle's part but better players than him have done the same.
It would help if officials were allowed to state why they made certain decisions after the game just to clarify why they made them. IF the ball hit Bogle's thigh then it was offside. Only question is why didn't he raise his flag immediately instead of waiting until the Charlton players were celebrating in front of him AND the 'Pool keeper got in his face?
Looks to me as if the ball hit Bogles thigh as it went in. Think I would have wanted is disallowed if it happened the other way round.
Rubbish ! You can't tell anything from a still picture. You could just as easily say that the ball was past him and he was making sure he didn't touch it.
So we've seen that after a penalty is saved, the officials are not placed to judge offside so they effectively have to ignore the offside rule in this situation.
On the other hand when a linesman is unable to see whether a player touches the ball, he should wait for players to appeal and make up his mind on how honest they seem!
It's not individual referees that have a problem. It's the instructions (or lack of them) from above that they have to follow!
But we don't know exactly what happened. Just what it may have looked like from our perspective. The officials are wired up and the assistant may have ben conversing with the ref. In fact he almost certainly was. And they got the decision right as a photo has been produced showing the ball touched Bogle's thigh. I am pretty sure the decision was not made on the say so of their keeper. That is a ridiculous notion.
Here is what reasonably could have happened. Assistant doesn't raise his flag as he thinks Innis has scored. Ref talks to him and asks if Bogle was offside as he touched it. Lino raises his flag after that conversation as ref has confirmed Bogle touched it. Their keeper had nothing to do with it.
Looks as though we had two players that may have been offside, one could be Interpreted to be in the line of the goalkeepers vision. Very hard to judge on a still photo and all rrelevant now as we won
If they investigate the ref and officials last night, they will probably end up getting commended. The Ref's Assistant for the Lincoln game probably got a demerit.
Sorry, this post is a bit long, they don`t call me muppetman
for nothing!
I must agree with Muttley, the Assistant didn`t signal for a
goal straight away either, so I think he was waiting to talk to the Ref to
clarify if Bogle had touched the ball.
As for the standard of officials, in my opinion the issue
starts at grassroots football.
I have played Sunday League and run the line for my team,
and I have also run the line for both my kid`s youth teams. So, a few hundred
games, and I could probably count on one hand the amount of times the Ref
hasn`t been abused in one way or another.
Sunday League wasn`t to bad, mainly the odd swear word
towards the Ref, more out of exasperation then venom. But I have seen games
abandoned because the Ref had been threatened and he had to get out of Dodge quickly
before thing`s went too far.
But youth football is far worse. Some of the behaviour from
parents and coaches (Not all) is inexplicable. I have seen young Ref`s verbally
abused and intimidated from the touch line. Surrounded by coaches and parents
at the end of matches, with some being jostled and sworn at for allegedly
cheating or making bad decisions.
In one instance, an opposition player injured himself
fowling one of our players, the 16-year-old Ref gave a penalty. The Ref called
the coaches on to treat the injured player. They ran straight to the Ref and
were having a go at him while their player was on the ground in pain. They were
more interested in winning then they were about the lad in their care.
After the game, the coach wanted to fight me in the car park,
and I never saw the young ref again. Which was one less Ref progressing and
learning their trade to go on to senior or league football.
This happens across the country and the world no doubt. So,
the pool of Referee`s we must choose from is a lot smaller than it should be.
But the league`s and the FA hardly do a thing to stamp out the abuse, and
that`s why young and old Referee`s are giving up the game. All that talent not
being supported in the correct way means only a few come through the system
which means we have to make do with what we`ve got.
So, please don`t blame the officials for the mistakes they
make, I am sure they are trying their best. But for the standard of Refereeing,
blame the governing bodies for their lack of support at grassroots level,
especially to that young Ref who left the pitch trying to hold back the tears,
because he knew that was his last game.
Made me laugh that half the linesman at the valley the past couple of years don't even decide which way a throw goes until the ref gives them the nod (if you hadnt noticed this then watch it, it's ridiculous), yet this linesman overrules the ref, there is no way that goal was disallowed until the protests.
Sure I’ve explained this before on another referring thread.The linesman and ref work together.before a game the referee will instruct his team what he wants from them in his pre match instructions.
Normally for throw ins they will say this.
They will split the line up into three thirds. Under linesman’s nose is his middle and last third referees. When the ball goes out the linesmen will point his flag below knee which way he thinks it is and the ref will point the way he thinks it is either below his waist or a discreet point. They then make eye contact to make sure they agree. If they do they then give full signal for direction of throw. This stops them from crossing and given decisions different ways and losing credibility.
If they differ down below then normally the ref will go with the linesmen in his third himself in his third and in middle.
I also use to say if the ball pings about in the middle.ie two players tackle and it’s unsure which way it’s gone because they come together at same time especially in front of benches I’ll just signal and the linesmen follows this sells the decision. To cut down on conflict quickly.
Always makes me laugh when you see parents coaches and fans going absolutely ballistic for a throw in. It’s a bloody throw in. Hardly a game changer in the middle of the pitch.
Also (muppetman) there is training and help for grass roots referees with extra schemes for refs with promise it takes a lot of mentality to go out and get abused on a football pitch every time you step on it because it is every time. I do 6 a sides during week they even get carried awayIn that. Every games a cup final 🤪
They’ve tried sin bin for abuse I try not to use it now because the twice I have it’s not worked well and I’ve received more abuse and second time got physically abused after the game. so now I try not to use it. Also makes me laugh how they verbally abuse you in a match calling you every name under the sun and if you say something like can you stop moaning you moan more than my mrs they say you can’t talk to me like that I’m going to report you.
It’s a tough job your always going to upset 50% and until you’ve actually done it you don’t know how hard it is.
Also If you watch valley pass you will also notice because terry and Louie are on different sides of the pitch to the camera what they think a decision is is different to what we are seeing on the other side. You wouldn’t believe some of the clips they show in referee workshops of decisions when they show them from each side. How they look different remember the referee is on the pitch so his angle is totally different to spectators outside the pitch.
Sorry for being long winded but hopefully this gives you a idea how it is on the officials perspective
Comments
e.g. How would we have reacted had he stood there (onside) only for it to go wide?
On the other hand when a linesman is unable to see whether a player touches the ball, he should wait for players to appeal and make up his mind on how honest they seem!
It's not individual referees that have a problem. It's the instructions (or lack of them) from above that they have to follow!
Here is what reasonably could have happened. Assistant doesn't raise his flag as he thinks Innis has scored. Ref talks to him and asks if Bogle was offside as he touched it. Lino raises his flag after that conversation as ref has confirmed Bogle touched it. Their keeper had nothing to do with it.
Looks as though we had two players that may have been offside, one could be Interpreted to be in the line of the goalkeepers vision. Very hard to judge on a still photo and all rrelevant now as we won
Sorry, this post is a bit long, they don`t call me muppetman for nothing!
I must agree with Muttley, the Assistant didn`t signal for a goal straight away either, so I think he was waiting to talk to the Ref to clarify if Bogle had touched the ball.
As for the standard of officials, in my opinion the issue starts at grassroots football.
I have played Sunday League and run the line for my team, and I have also run the line for both my kid`s youth teams. So, a few hundred games, and I could probably count on one hand the amount of times the Ref hasn`t been abused in one way or another.
Sunday League wasn`t to bad, mainly the odd swear word towards the Ref, more out of exasperation then venom. But I have seen games abandoned because the Ref had been threatened and he had to get out of Dodge quickly before thing`s went too far.
But youth football is far worse. Some of the behaviour from parents and coaches (Not all) is inexplicable. I have seen young Ref`s verbally abused and intimidated from the touch line. Surrounded by coaches and parents at the end of matches, with some being jostled and sworn at for allegedly cheating or making bad decisions.
In one instance, an opposition player injured himself fowling one of our players, the 16-year-old Ref gave a penalty. The Ref called the coaches on to treat the injured player. They ran straight to the Ref and were having a go at him while their player was on the ground in pain. They were more interested in winning then they were about the lad in their care.
After the game, the coach wanted to fight me in the car park, and I never saw the young ref again. Which was one less Ref progressing and learning their trade to go on to senior or league football.
This happens across the country and the world no doubt. So, the pool of Referee`s we must choose from is a lot smaller than it should be. But the league`s and the FA hardly do a thing to stamp out the abuse, and that`s why young and old Referee`s are giving up the game. All that talent not being supported in the correct way means only a few come through the system which means we have to make do with what we`ve got.
So, please don`t blame the officials for the mistakes they make, I am sure they are trying their best. But for the standard of Refereeing, blame the governing bodies for their lack of support at grassroots level, especially to that young Ref who left the pitch trying to hold back the tears, because he knew that was his last game.
Thought the Ref actually done OK tbf.
so now I try not to use it.
Also makes me laugh how they verbally abuse you in a match calling you every name under the sun and if you say something like can you stop moaning you moan more than my mrs they say you can’t talk to me like that I’m going to report you.