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The Last Dance — Michael Jordan & Chicago Bulls

Callumcafc
Callumcafc Posts: 63,757
in Other Football and Sports
Anyone watched this? Halfway through the third episode and really enjoying it.
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Comments

  • moutuakilla
    moutuakilla Posts: 7,567
    Thought it was brilliant. A fascinating insight into one of sport's greatest dynasties. I loved the Bulls growing up but had little idea why other than MJ.

    Interesting hearing about the perception of him from his team mates and opposing players. 

    Had no idea until after finishing it how much subsequent success Steve Kerr and Phil Jackson had. Made me want to start watching basketball again.

    Enjoy!
  • Curbey
    Curbey Posts: 368
    Great series, ESPN 30 for 30 has a host of great sports docs on loads of different subjects. Worth a look after this completing this. 
  • supaclive
    supaclive Posts: 6,514
    Great series.  No doubt MJ was a complete arsehole BUT THE GREATEST of all time usually are 
  • Ross
    Ross Posts: 4,409
    One of the best things I’ve ever watched. As a massive basketball fan and being into it when this was happening it’s brilliant to watch it all back. 
  • WSS
    WSS Posts: 25,070
    After hearing some comments I thought MJ was going to come across as a complete dick.

    I didn’t think he did at all. High standards, brutal leadership but outstanding results. You can’t keep a team like that together for so many years if they didn’t have huge respect for each other.
  • Charltonparklane
    Charltonparklane Posts: 5,786
    Never watched basketball before tbh, don't like it. 
    Best sport doc I've watched though and will pick a team to follow once the world is a normal place. 

    I like the geezer, real winner. 
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 35,994
    Brilliant series and a reminder of just how good the Bulls were.

    They had the best player ever, Pippen who is a hall of famer, Rodman one of the best rebounders ever and Phil Jackson the best coach ever. What a team.
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    Incredible, best sports documentary ever (apart from the final episode of series 2, Sunderland ‘til I Die of course!)
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    WSS said:
    After hearing some comments I thought MJ was going to come across as a complete dick.

    I didn’t think he did at all. High standards, brutal leadership but outstanding results. You can’t keep a team like that together for so many years if they didn’t have huge respect for each other.
    Agree, I thought he came across pretty well. 
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,760
    Enjoyed it but then I enjoy most documentaries about sporting superstars. The two part programme about Lance Armstrong starting on BT on Tuesday might be a bit different for obvious reasons.
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  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,453
    supaclive said:
    Great series.  No doubt MJ was a complete arsehole BUT THE GREATEST of all time usually are 
     Wouldn't go that far. He gave it out to a few of his teammates but that was about it?

    Fella gets cameras stuffed in his face every time he steps foot outside. He handled that professionally every time as far as I could see. Never once complained and always took time to speak to fans.

    The ultimate sports mega star in my book. Not many like him.

    Series is excellent. A must for all sports fans
  • RichyB
    RichyB Posts: 47
    An absolute fantastic watch, highly recommend. What an athlete  
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,254
    Just finished it 15 mins ago.  Don’t know anything about or follow basketball, but I found it to be superb.  Would highly recommend it 
  • stackitsteve
    stackitsteve Posts: 12,102
    edited May 2020
    It’s an - even if you know nothing about the sport it doesn’t matter - documentary.
    Brilliant 
  • colthe3rd
    colthe3rd Posts: 8,486
    Easily the best multi part sports documentary made. 30 for 30s are always excellent though. Thing that stood out for me was the very few that mentioned how much they liked him as a person but without a doubt they all have the highest of respect for him. Guy clearly has such high standards and doesn't tolerate anyone not giving everything they have to play with him. He's also a master mental warfare tactician, worst thing you could do was talk shit to him. 

    The 30 for 30 two parter on Lance Armstrong starts tomorrow (on BT on Monday evening), should also be very good.
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 35,994
    WSS said:
    After hearing some comments I thought MJ was going to come across as a complete dick.

    I didn’t think he did at all. High standards, brutal leadership but outstanding results. You can’t keep a team like that together for so many years if they didn’t have huge respect for each other.
    As he himself said, he may have pushed people hard but he never asked anyone to do anything he wouldn't do himself.

    Ok he may have picked on some players but he saw that as character building, saying if you can't take this from me in training then what good are you going to be in the heat of a crunch play off game.
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,453
    What a series!
    THE best sports documentary you will see.

    Lot more respect for basketball now. 
     I Used to wave it off as a bit of score-a-minute, US mind numbing nonsense. But now I feel like one of the people that don't understand cricket. 
    There's so much more to it than that. And so many games go to the very wire.

    Echos of Charlton and Curbishley at the end in the sense they wouldn't let them continue for one more season.

    Anyway. I highly recommend it!
  • Leroy Ambrose
    Leroy Ambrose Posts: 14,435
    edited May 2020
    I think Jordan is ridiculously well adjusted considering the insanity of his life from pretty much the first season he played. I followed basketball in the eighties and nineties - but I don't think anybody outside the US can TRULY appreciate just how much pressure and spotlight he was under.

    Think the only loser out of that documentary was Scottie Pippen - and that was only because of the way he said he'd do the same thing again when they brought up the incident where he refused to go back into a game against the Knicks at the end because they were giving the ball to Kukoc to try and make the game winning shot. He had a get out of jail free card as well, because they'd already gone through the fact he apologised to the whole team pretty much straight after the game - was a bit of a dick move to say he'd do it again. Other than that he came out of the series pretty well.

    Thoroughly enjoyed it - shows how good a coach Jackson was, how good Jerry Krause was in getting a team together than completed Jordan and - yes - showed just how great Jordan was, without heaping it on too much.

    Oh - and Isiah Thomas was, still is and always will be a graceless prick. 
  • Pedro45
    Pedro45 Posts: 5,820
    It was very good TV and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

    I've watched a few more Netflix sports docs since...

    Losers - which is an interesting multi sport half hour, with a very good football episode.

    Basketball or Nothing - about a small town high school team trying to win a state championship for the first time ever. Maybe I like this one as I've been to and stayed in the small town...

    Enjoy!



  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    edited May 2020
    It always strikes me when I watch documentaries featuring US Sports stars how much more articulate they are on average than English football players. 

    I wonder if that’s because, to be a professional sportsman in the US, you are practically forced to go through a few years of college before hitting the big time? I know college is an absolute doss for some, especially if you are good (my friend went to college with Gronk, doesn’t sound like it was particularly tough educationally!) but I wonder if exposing all of them to that environment means more of them will have better communication skills? 
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  • Elthamaddick
    Elthamaddick Posts: 15,808
    have only read good things about the series, will definitely watch this
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,488
    Really good series I thought but with two flaws. 
    - the cutting between time lines worked well at first but by the last couple of episodes became confusing
    - they never really properly explained why the ownership and management wanted to get a new coach and rebuild the team. 
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 35,994
    se9addick said:
    It always strikes me when I watch documentaries featuring US Sports stars how much more articulate they are on average than English football players. 

    I wonder if that’s because, to be a professional sportsman in the US, you are practically forced to go through a few years of college before hitting the big time? I know college is an absolute doss for some, especially if you are good (my friend went to college with Gronk, doesn’t sound like it was particularly tough educationally!) but I wonder if exposing all of them to that environment means more of them will have better communication skills? 
    Yeah that certainly has to help for the majority of players.

    Depends how good a player you are though really. If you're someone like Zion Williamson who was number 1 draft pick in the NBA last summer after just 1 year at college, i doubt they spend too much time studying at college as they already know they'll be multi millionaires before they're 20.
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    se9addick said:
    It always strikes me when I watch documentaries featuring US Sports stars how much more articulate they are on average than English football players. 

    I wonder if that’s because, to be a professional sportsman in the US, you are practically forced to go through a few years of college before hitting the big time? I know college is an absolute doss for some, especially if you are good (my friend went to college with Gronk, doesn’t sound like it was particularly tough educationally!) but I wonder if exposing all of them to that environment means more of them will have better communication skills? 
    Yeah that certainly has to help for the majority of players.

    Depends how good a player you are though really. If you're someone like Zion Williamson who was number 1 draft pick in the NBA last summer after just 1 year at college, i doubt they spend too much time studying at college as they already know they'll be multi millionaires before they're 20.
    How do contracts for top ranking draft picks work? If I pick 1st, what stops me offering the top rated rookie the lowest possible salary? If he regrets does this mean I own his draft rights and he either plays for me, I get to trade him or he sits out the first season?
  • Nug
    Nug Posts: 4,623
    edited May 2020
    se9addick said:
    It always strikes me when I watch documentaries featuring US Sports stars how much more articulate they are on average than English football players. 

    I wonder if that’s because, to be a professional sportsman in the US, you are practically forced to go through a few years of college before hitting the big time? I know college is an absolute doss for some, especially if you are good (my friend went to college with Gronk, doesn’t sound like it was particularly tough educationally!) but I wonder if exposing all of them to that environment means more of them will have better communication skills? 
    My wife is american and one of her friends married a college football player. The college was Purdue in Indiana part of the Big 10. One year about 10 years after they had all left and we were living in Chicago we went to their "Homecoming" game against Penn State 68,000 in attendance and Drew Brees was the Purdue QB. I was chatting with her friends husband at the game and he told me how his college experience was completely different to the rest of our group. They were effectively treated as professionals and had to behave accordingly. He had to do interviews and was coached in how to do that. They also had to keep up with their studies or they couldn't play. I think the college system is a great way to prepare these guys for a life as a professional. The facilities are mind-blowing and apart from a few top Premier league teams would embarrass most football clubs. During the game we left to get a beer and he had a stream of people coming up to him asking for an autograph. It really is a lifetime connection with your college as an athlete.

    I also came across Jordan one day in Chicago after he had retired. There was an exclusive gym next to the building where I worked. It was morning and I was crossing the road to the building and this sports car pulled up and a valet came out opened the door and he jumped out. I've never seen a quiet street turn into a mob scene so quickly, I don't know where all the people suddenly came from and they absolutely mobbed him.  was massive.

    I lived over there during a lot of this and as good as the Bulls were there were so many amazing players during that period, Ewing, Olajuwon, Barkely, Mourning, Drexler, Payton it really was a golden period of the NBA.
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 35,994
    se9addick said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    se9addick said:
    It always strikes me when I watch documentaries featuring US Sports stars how much more articulate they are on average than English football players. 

    I wonder if that’s because, to be a professional sportsman in the US, you are practically forced to go through a few years of college before hitting the big time? I know college is an absolute doss for some, especially if you are good (my friend went to college with Gronk, doesn’t sound like it was particularly tough educationally!) but I wonder if exposing all of them to that environment means more of them will have better communication skills? 
    Yeah that certainly has to help for the majority of players.

    Depends how good a player you are though really. If you're someone like Zion Williamson who was number 1 draft pick in the NBA last summer after just 1 year at college, i doubt they spend too much time studying at college as they already know they'll be multi millionaires before they're 20.
    How do contracts for top ranking draft picks work? If I pick 1st, what stops me offering the top rated rookie the lowest possible salary? If he regrets does this mean I own his draft rights and he either plays for me, I get to trade him or he sits out the first season?
    In the NBA the league set the pay for rookies and their pay is scaled according to their draft pick so obviously the number 1 pick will earn the most. They sign a 2 year contract and the team have rights to years 3 & 4.

    Pay goes up a certain fixed % each year but not sure how much.

    If you draft him then he is your player and plays for you, unless you draft him to another team. It's possible he could refuse to play but as a rookie that's not going to do him or his reputation much good in the league, plus the top draft picks are put on struggling teams anyway, that's how it works. So the better a rookie you are, you know you're going to a rubbish team.
  • aitchyaddick
    aitchyaddick Posts: 198
    Watching the Last Dance as well. Know nothing about basketball, could hardly name 3 players but this series is great. As good as 'Sunderland til I Die'. If you're a sports fan you'll love it. Lots of behind the scenes and great music. as well. 
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    aitchyaddick said:
    Watching the Last Dance as well. Know nothing about basketball, could hardly name 3 players but this series is great. As good as 'Sunderland til I Die'. If you're a sports fan you'll love it. Lots of behind the scenes and great music. as well. 
    It’s about 800,000 times better than Sunderland ‘til I Die! 
  • Bedsaddick
    Bedsaddick Posts: 24,730
    I detest basketball so I’m reluctant to watch it . 
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    Bedsaddick said:
    I detest basketball so I’m reluctant to watch it . 
    My wife doesn’t like sport and she’s enjoyed the parts she’s seen and is now going to watch from the start. 

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