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The old are we skint or are we mega rich argument?
SoundAsa£
Posts: 22,483
Thought starting a separate thread on this is justified at this point.
We had the same conundrum with The Helmet (Duchatalet).
We are ostensibly owned by and have investors who are without doubt mega rich, so by my way of thinking we are effectively mega rich.
However, we have a fair few posters who are of the opinion that we are skint.
It’s this ongoing puzzle......are we only as wealthy as the money we are given or are we as wealthy as the backers, so what do people mean who insist we are skint?
Glass half full or half empty............I’m a glass half full man.......or is it something in between?
We had the same conundrum with The Helmet (Duchatalet).
We are ostensibly owned by and have investors who are without doubt mega rich, so by my way of thinking we are effectively mega rich.
However, we have a fair few posters who are of the opinion that we are skint.
It’s this ongoing puzzle......are we only as wealthy as the money we are given or are we as wealthy as the backers, so what do people mean who insist we are skint?
Glass half full or half empty............I’m a glass half full man.......or is it something in between?
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We are skrich4
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Somewhere in the middle i reckon.
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The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
It’s too early to say but I find it disappointing nothing much is apparently happening re building the squad up. I know we might get several unheralded deals through by tomorrow but currently I’m underwhelmed.
Whether they have money or not isn’t clear yet I suppose.0 -
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Agreed with potential to go into the mega rich stakes as we move along.Dazzler21 said:Somewhere in the middle i reckon.
@Clem_Snide post on the transfer thread articulates it much better than i ever could.
I would be happy to get back to the late 90's early 00's Charlton that had a bit of money but was a very well run club built on years of solid foundations.
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I think we a like a child with rich parents who are willing to help but basically want the child to make it on their own.
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But that’s what I am saying, we know they have money and if reports are true money beyond comprehension.iainment said:The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
It’s too early to say but I find it disappointing nothing much is apparently happening re building the squad up. I know we might get several unheralded deals through by tomorrow but currently I’m underwhelmed.
Whether they have money or not isn’t clear yet I suppose.
What isn’t clear is how much they will give us and when?
With them as owners we will never be actually skint.....or am I wrong.0 -
The same as under RD then?stevexreeve said:I think we a like a child with rich parents who are willing to help but basically want the child to make it on their own.0 -
The club runs at a loss. It might just about break even but if so will struggle in this division unless income is increased greatly via sponsorship, commercial income, ticket sales, cup runs (ha ha) or player sales.
We are NOT owned by a Shiekh worth £15bn.
We are owned by Tahnoon Nimer (TN) who works for a Shiekh worth £15bn
We don't know how much TN is personally worth but I wouldn't mind being £1 behind him.
But MS has never said we are "f******* rich".
MS has constantly spoken about "not splashing the cash" and "sustainability".
The plan appears to me to be to increase commercial and ticket income and to better realise the value of players sold (EG not letting the like of Gomez, Konsa, etc go for peanuts) while not paying the silly wages and fees we did under Meire.
The way I read it is that we have a relatively small (if any at all) "subsidy" from TN in Championship terms and the aim is to make the club work better financially rather than spending our way to the premiership.
So in simple terms, no, we're not loaded and we don't have a sugar daddy throwing money at us.14 -
If HE has 60 businesses... hypothetically can he use one of his businesses to sponsor us, therefore increasing revenue... or is that not allowed?
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RD was the stay away Dad who paid the child matitance and thought we should be grateful for that and that alone made him a good parent.Bedsaddick said:
The same as under RD then?stevexreeve said:I think we a like a child with rich parents who are willing to help but basically want the child to make it on their own.8 -
not sure he does have 60 Businesses. Doesn't he run them for the Shiekh he works for?DoctorCharlton said:If HE has 60 businesses... hypothetically can he use one of his businesses to sponsor us, therefore increasing revenue... or is that not allowed?
And no, you're not meant to be able to sponsor yourself to get around FFP although PSG and Man City seem to.3 -
i don't believe we have money to spend in this window. i also fear that if we are relegated they wont be buying the ground/training ground.
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Isn’t the 6 month agreement binding......I would imagine so?cafcdave123 said:i don't believe we have money to spend in this window. i also fear that if we are relegated they wont be buying the ground/training ground.0 -
The individuals involved are not skint, but in terms of how much it costs to run a football club they are skint. it is typical charlton, we get owners who cannot afford to run the club, instead of the multi billionaire for whom are clubs losses are not even a pin prick.
Owners like Chelsea`s, Man city`s leicesters, etc.0 -
there will be a penalty for not going through with it but it will be a hell of a lot less than what they will cost.SoundAsa£ said:
Isn’t the 6 month agreement binding......I would imagine so?cafcdave123 said:i don't believe we have money to spend in this window. i also fear that if we are relegated they wont be buying the ground/training ground.0 -
My friend comes from one of the richest families in Hong Kong. She never gets a penny, though, and is always broke. Probably why she's so normal.
I think we're in a similar situation. We have a rich owner but we're not going to be splashed out on. We've been told the strategy by MS. "Buy from lower leagues, invest in the academy, build slowly and sustainably."
So the answer to the title question is irrelevant. Doesn't matter if we are rich because we're not going to be run rich.1 -
Could see Duchatalet locking us out were that the case!cafcdave123 said:
there will be a penalty for not going through with it but it will be a hell of a lot less than what they will cost.SoundAsa£ said:
Isn’t the 6 month agreement binding......I would imagine so?cafcdave123 said:i don't believe we have money to spend in this window. i also fear that if we are relegated they wont be buying the ground/training ground.
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schrodinger's cat
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The owner is East Street Investments who could go into liquidation at any time ie, when the 6 months is up. Then it defaults back to Uncle Roland?? As somebody said , East Street is a market full of cheap tat, Del boys favourite selling ground. Perhaps not a good choice of name.1
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Then they'd need to pay rental surely, which would need to be factored in wouldn't it?cafcdave123 said:
there will be a penalty for not going through with it but it will be a hell of a lot less than what they will cost.SoundAsa£ said:
Isn’t the 6 month agreement binding......I would imagine so?cafcdave123 said:i don't believe we have money to spend in this window. i also fear that if we are relegated they wont be buying the ground/training ground.
I don't think anyone can tell what they're worth or willing to spend, except them themselves.
Still dont think an informed view can be made after just 4 weeks and a January window, so personally keeping an open mind until the 6 months is up.
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Loan or permanent?cantersaddick said:schrodinger's cat6 -
Or both......2
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Hopefully everything will improve in time, but we mustn't drop a league.0
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At the moment,I feel:
- MS made a lot of dosh getting the takeover done
- ESI now own us
- MS is on some strange commision of funds/transfer budget as his tune has changed after Dubai.
- The above answers the sudden shift to managing "long term sustainability."1 -
With Roland we had a rich owner but were not a rich business. - certainly towards the end.
With Nimer we do not know if he is rich or not. As others have said, I doubt much has gone in to date and if the legal obligation to buy the assets rests with ESI alone and Nimer is not personally on the hook then at the end of the season if he wants out he just folds ESI and losses whatever minimal funds he may have put in to date, the football business goes into administration, we are docked points and RD locks us out as he still owns the ground/assets and doesn't want the club back.
At the moment I remain cautious but hopeful.2 -
Do we know how much TN paid for the club? Baring in mind he is still yet to complete the purchase of SL and parts of the Valley. I've heard figures ranging from £1 and £50m.
I believe MS and wholeheartedly agree that being sustainable is the 'right' way to progress. I just have a niggling feeling that something isn't right. I dont like LB playing business out on social media, I could never get away with that in my job. I'm worried if we do go down, MS ideals may not come to fruition and we will become a nomadic club. Does the compulsory purchase mention Championship survival? I don't know, perhaps it's the ever pessimist that comes along with being a Charlton supporter.
Let's get behind the boys and make some noise on Saturday. A win against a relegation rival is crucial, both for the points and for team mentality.
COYR.0 -
Be astounded if Nimer has any such thoughts. He works in a region where reputation is gold and this wouldn't go down well.Athletico Charlton said:With Roland we had a rich owner but were not a rich business. - certainly towards the end.
With Nimer we do not know if he is rich or not. As others have said, I doubt much has gone in to date and if the legal obligation to buy the assets rests with ESI alone and Nimer is not personally on the hook then at the end of the season if he wants out he just folds ESI and losses whatever minimal funds he may have put in to date, the football business goes into administration, we are docked points and RD locks us out as he still owns the ground/assets and doesn't want the club back.
At the moment I remain cautious but hopeful.
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I'm MY OPINION we haven't got much money at the moment. I think the club has a little bit left from Dijksteel's sale that could be used to grease some wheels.
As it stand ESI haven't made any real financial input. Mr Southall is, in football terms, skint. HE has personal wealth that is beyond my wildest dreams but not enough to fund big losses, on top of the cost of the final purchase.
My best guess is that MS and HE will be working overtime going through thier, obviously well heeled, contact list trying to drum up sponsorship deals and other forms of finance as soon as possible. 2 sell out crowds will look good as they tour the great and good of the UAE.
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As soon as we start playing at the Dubai Etihad Emirates UAE airlines valley stadium we'll be fine. My feeling is they're richer than me but we're not getting bankrolled anytime soon.
They can cover the losses but they're hoping we stay up, and they can start increasing sponsorship deals. Then we can start spending some of that on improving the team.
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