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Haringey walk off v Yeovil, match abandoned, racist abuse
Comments
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I never really understand the motive of posts like these. It's massive hyperbole - no-one has said that the entire West Country is racist and it seems pretty clear that this event happened, as acknowledged by Yeovil's players and the majority of their fans, and it's quite clear that any conversation about consequences are occurring knowing that there will be more information to come. It's weird, because the only thing a ridiculous over the top post like this does is distract away from the conversation, which is about a racist event that occurred and how it should be dealt with. Why would someone want to distract away from that conversation with some weird exaggeration-filled rant?alan dugdale said:
What a ridiculously sensible post. Surely you should just decide that Yeovil fans are guilty and the entire West Country is racist even though you haven’t heard or seen any footage. Seems to be the norm anyway !Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Not sure to be honest as it's a tough one without a precedent. Firstly they have to do a thorough investigation and be very certain that there was abuse. At the moment (and i've not seen evidence) it's just accusations isn't it?MemoriesofMortimer said:My guess is that the competition will have rules governing this type of event. Does anyone remember the replay between Arsenal and Sheffield Utd? That game was replayed because of bad sportsmanship which as far as I know was not included in the official rules of the FA cup. This means there is leeway for coming up with flexible solutions and the FA should consider their actions carefully. An important precedent is about to be set going forwards.
What does everyone think the FA should do?
Happy to be corrected if evidence exists.5 -
Fair enough. Except, there are at least two posts stating that “attitudes to race are different in the West Country”. Have a look for yourself.Garrymanilow said:
I never really understand the motive of posts like these. It's massive hyperbole - no-one has said that the entire West Country is racist and it seems pretty clear that this event happened, as acknowledged by Yeovil's players and the majority of their fans, and it's quite clear that any conversation about consequences are occurring knowing that there will be more information to come. It's weird, because the only thing a ridiculous over the top post like this does is distract away from the conversation, which is about a racist event that occurred and how it should be dealt with. Why would someone want to distract away from that conversation with some weird exaggeration-filled rant?alan dugdale said:
What a ridiculously sensible post. Surely you should just decide that Yeovil fans are guilty and the entire West Country is racist even though you haven’t heard or seen any footage. Seems to be the norm anyway !Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Not sure to be honest as it's a tough one without a precedent. Firstly they have to do a thorough investigation and be very certain that there was abuse. At the moment (and i've not seen evidence) it's just accusations isn't it?MemoriesofMortimer said:My guess is that the competition will have rules governing this type of event. Does anyone remember the replay between Arsenal and Sheffield Utd? That game was replayed because of bad sportsmanship which as far as I know was not included in the official rules of the FA cup. This means there is leeway for coming up with flexible solutions and the FA should consider their actions carefully. An important precedent is about to be set going forwards.
What does everyone think the FA should do?
Happy to be corrected if evidence exists.
Of course something happened on Saturday. My point is that, as with all legal issues, it’s best not to speculate as to what. There’s nothing distracting about my original post.0 -
alan dugdale said:
Fair enough. Except, there are at least two posts stating that “attitudes to race are different in the West Country”. Have a look for yourself.Garrymanilow said:
I never really understand the motive of posts like these. It's massive hyperbole - no-one has said that the entire West Country is racist and it seems pretty clear that this event happened, as acknowledged by Yeovil's players and the majority of their fans, and it's quite clear that any conversation about consequences are occurring knowing that there will be more information to come. It's weird, because the only thing a ridiculous over the top post like this does is distract away from the conversation, which is about a racist event that occurred and how it should be dealt with. Why would someone want to distract away from that conversation with some weird exaggeration-filled rant?alan dugdale said:
What a ridiculously sensible post. Surely you should just decide that Yeovil fans are guilty and the entire West Country is racist even though you haven’t heard or seen any footage. Seems to be the norm anyway !Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Not sure to be honest as it's a tough one without a precedent. Firstly they have to do a thorough investigation and be very certain that there was abuse. At the moment (and i've not seen evidence) it's just accusations isn't it?MemoriesofMortimer said:My guess is that the competition will have rules governing this type of event. Does anyone remember the replay between Arsenal and Sheffield Utd? That game was replayed because of bad sportsmanship which as far as I know was not included in the official rules of the FA cup. This means there is leeway for coming up with flexible solutions and the FA should consider their actions carefully. An important precedent is about to be set going forwards.
What does everyone think the FA should do?
Happy to be corrected if evidence exists.
Of course something happened on Saturday. My point is that, as with all legal issues, it’s best not to speculate as to what. There’s nothing distracting about my original post.
I did see those, and you're misrepresenting the posts. One person said 'Move out of the cities, particularly the West country and attitudes towards colour/race can be very different from ours'. That's the actual quote and it's completely different. Changing the wording will do that. There's nothing there saying that the entire West Country is racist, it's saying that in more rural areas attitudes can be different. And then there's a post from someone who lives in the West Country agreeing. Hardly a hysterical denouncement of the West Country as racist monsters is it? I also have multiple family members living in rural areas of the West Country so I spend a lot of time there, and I would agree that attitudes are different to what you would get in Bristol. That's not the same as denouncing them all as racists, but you know that.
There's also very little speculation going on about what happened, the conversation is primarily about what should happen once it's proven. Which is what happens on a discussion forum. We aren't a court of law, our conversation can't prejudice a case, so there's no harm in discussing the situation. As I said before, I don't know why you're so determined to put the brakes on a conversation about the issue of racism in football and how the authorities should deal with it.6 -
Thankyou @Garrymanilow1
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My guess is that is quite likely to be true, although Seth was right when he said Brexit has led to more overt racism.ValleyGary said:I hope there being more incidents in the news is because people are now reporting it more and are no longer afraid to make a stand.3 -
In the West Country, a lot of people are retired and I still hear people describe black people as “coloured “ and they see nothing wrong with it. .0
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Blackheathboy said:In the West Country, a lot of people are retired and I still hear people describe black people as “coloured “ and they see nothing wrong with it. .
I thought it's no longer 'black people' but people of colour?0 -
I didn’t know that.0
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Blackheathboy said:I didn’t know that.
Neither did I, but I referred to someone as a black person and my friend (white) said I was wrong.0 -
It’s a minefield.1
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I think "People of Colour" is an Americanism. The UK equivalent would be BAME (Black and Minority Ethnic) so black is the right way to describe people of African or Caribbean descent - and is used by black people to identify their own organisations such as the Black Lawyers Association so it is perfectly acceptable to use.
There have now been two arrests in this case:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/haringey-borough-yeovil-racist-abuse-arrest-walk-off-goalkeeper-fa-cup-qualifier-a9164276.html
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On a side issue there was a great bit on the wireless yesterday about a Rugby player called Jimmy Peters.
His story is fascinating, but it included a gem where during his lifetime somebody (maybe with good intentions) decided that Peters could be called an 'honorary white man'.
The overall journey fighting racism in sport isn't finished, and sometimes it's worth remembering ways it manifested itself in the past, the Jessie Owens story is another reminder.0 -
People innocently using out of date words that were never meant to be used in an offensive way is a very minor issue when compared to the wider issue of racist abuse, especially when terms that are considered offensive in the US have a different history elsewhere.Blackheathboy said:In the West Country, a lot of people are retired and I still hear people describe black people as “coloured “ and they see nothing wrong with it. .
For example the word "oriental" to describe people of Chinese and SE Asian origin is considered offensive in the US but widely used in the UK by people of SE Asian origin
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What word do they use then?killerandflash said:
People innocently using out of date words that were never meant to be used in an offensive way is a very minor issue when compared to the wider issue of racist abuse, especially when terms that are considered offensive in the US have a different history elsewhere.Blackheathboy said:In the West Country, a lot of people are retired and I still hear people describe black people as “coloured “ and they see nothing wrong with it. .
For example the word "oriental" to describe people of Chinese and SE Asian origin is considered offensive in the US but widely used in the UK by people of SE Asian origin0 -
Asian0
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Wife or she who must be obeyed0
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Whereas in this country "Asian" is often used to refer to South Asian people only (Indian subcontinent) e.g. the radio station BBC Asian NetworkLeroy Ambrose said:Asian0 -
God, you’re a bore. How am I putting the brakes on this thread ?Garrymanilow said:alan dugdale said:
Fair enough. Except, there are at least two posts stating that “attitudes to race are different in the West Country”. Have a look for yourself.Garrymanilow said:
I never really understand the motive of posts like these. It's massive hyperbole - no-one has said that the entire West Country is racist and it seems pretty clear that this event happened, as acknowledged by Yeovil's players and the majority of their fans, and it's quite clear that any conversation about consequences are occurring knowing that there will be more information to come. It's weird, because the only thing a ridiculous over the top post like this does is distract away from the conversation, which is about a racist event that occurred and how it should be dealt with. Why would someone want to distract away from that conversation with some weird exaggeration-filled rant?alan dugdale said:
What a ridiculously sensible post. Surely you should just decide that Yeovil fans are guilty and the entire West Country is racist even though you haven’t heard or seen any footage. Seems to be the norm anyway !Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Not sure to be honest as it's a tough one without a precedent. Firstly they have to do a thorough investigation and be very certain that there was abuse. At the moment (and i've not seen evidence) it's just accusations isn't it?MemoriesofMortimer said:My guess is that the competition will have rules governing this type of event. Does anyone remember the replay between Arsenal and Sheffield Utd? That game was replayed because of bad sportsmanship which as far as I know was not included in the official rules of the FA cup. This means there is leeway for coming up with flexible solutions and the FA should consider their actions carefully. An important precedent is about to be set going forwards.
What does everyone think the FA should do?
Happy to be corrected if evidence exists.
Of course something happened on Saturday. My point is that, as with all legal issues, it’s best not to speculate as to what. There’s nothing distracting about my original post.
I did see those, and you're misrepresenting the posts. One person said 'Move out of the cities, particularly the West country and attitudes towards colour/race can be very different from ours'. That's the actual quote and it's completely different. Changing the wording will do that. There's nothing there saying that the entire West Country is racist, it's saying that in more rural areas attitudes can be different. And then there's a post from someone who lives in the West Country agreeing. Hardly a hysterical denouncement of the West Country as racist monsters is it? I also have multiple family members living in rural areas of the West Country so I spend a lot of time there, and I would agree that attitudes are different to what you would get in Bristol. That's not the same as denouncing them all as racists, but you know that.
There's also very little speculation going on about what happened, the conversation is primarily about what should happen once it's proven. Which is what happens on a discussion forum. We aren't a court of law, our conversation can't prejudice a case, so there's no harm in discussing the situation. As I said before, I don't know why you're so determined to put the brakes on a conversation about the issue of racism in football and how the authorities should deal with it.
i just don’t see how generalising about a large area of the country helps matters. I don’t remember it happening to the North East after the Hartlepool Dover incident. Millwall Everton ? Hearts Rangers ?0 -
it gets worse and worse .. seems that nowhere is immune .. be careful what you post about Gillingham in future
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50126927
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FA have announced that the game will be replayed0
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it's rife
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50130001
How did we get here? Brexit has played a big role3 -
Brexit ? Did you go to matches in the 70s and 80s ?snowinberlin said:it's rife
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50130001
How did we get here? Brexit has played a big role3 -
I didn’t realise Brexit was to blame for idiots abusing someone due to their skin colour.2
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Easy excuse to blame everything on at the momentMrOneLung said:I didn’t realise Brexit was to blame for idiots abusing someone due to their skin colour.3 -
Huge fan of worms being opened with these recent movements. Not saying it’s wrong, but once you have the power of games being stopped/postponed in the hands of individuals in the crowd it becomes a risky game.1
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what would you put it down to then? it's clear the country has taken a far right direction politically in the last 3 years, we have a Prime Minister elected despite writing racist articles in the press, it's given the green light to racists who think society is anti foreigners. One or 2 incidents of racism in society and football all of a sudden has become an epidemic. Prior to 2016 it was virtually eradicatedForeverAddickted said:
Easy excuse to blame everything on at the momentMrOneLung said:I didn’t realise Brexit was to blame for idiots abusing someone due to their skin colour.7 -
Haringey v Hartlepool if they beat Yeovil.The Organiser said:Huge fan of worms being opened with these recent movements. Not saying it’s wrong, but once you have the power of games being stopped/postponed in the hands of individuals in the crowd it becomes a risky game.0 -
That reminds me that when we played Fleetwood away last February, a few fans were singing about "Pi*ey Parker"Lincsaddick said:it gets worse and worse .. seems that nowhere is immune .. be careful what you post about Gillingham in future
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/501269270 -
I wish you were right as that'd point to an easier resolution, but this is just too wrong.snowinberlin said:
what would you put it down to then? it's clear the country has taken a far right direction politically in the last 3 years, we have a Prime Minister elected despite writing racist articles in the press, it's given the green light to racists who think society is anti foreigners. One or 2 incidents of racism in society and football all of a sudden has become an epidemic. Prior to 2016 it was virtually eradicatedForeverAddickted said:
Easy excuse to blame everything on at the momentMrOneLung said:I didn’t realise Brexit was to blame for idiots abusing someone due to their skin colour.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/27/-sp-racism-on-rise-in-britain
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Epidemic, listen to you. As soon as it happens at an international, there's more than likely gonna be a few divs copy it, then the media gets hold of it and it's all over the place.snowinberlin said:
what would you put it down to then? it's clear the country has taken a far right direction politically in the last 3 years, we have a Prime Minister elected despite writing racist articles in the press, it's given the green light to racists who think society is anti foreigners. One or 2 incidents of racism in society and football all of a sudden has become an epidemic. Prior to 2016 it was virtually eradicatedForeverAddickted said:
Easy excuse to blame everything on at the momentMrOneLung said:I didn’t realise Brexit was to blame for idiots abusing someone due to their skin colour.6
