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I'd like to share a few thoughts on this.
I was openly bisexual from 14, in quite a supposedly liberal school (and later university). One of my best friends is also gay. To say that people in the 21st century UK don't have problems with it, or don't care about sexuality is so hilariously wrong.
Everyone I knew who was even suspected of being anything other than straight got abuse, both verbal and physical, and some of it to an extent that would make you feel sick. The clique where these attitudes, the idea that this was acceptable, was most prevalent? The football team and those who were big football fans. They were more than happy to practise their kicking on those they knew were gay because they knew that most people would turn their heads.
I saw the same in sixth form, where people thought words like fa**ot were legitimate. I see some of the same at university. And despite the sheer whataboutism in some of the earlier posts, the football community was a commonality in all 3 places. Just because some religious groups are known to have issues with homosexuality, it doesn't mean there isn't serious work to be done in football, from grassroots up to professional level.
To return briefly to my earlier point about the UK at large, how many of you would be afraid of your return journey home with a tattoo or face paint of your football team? Well that's the reality of some I knew coming home from Pride, who washed any facepaint off because they were afraid of being attacked. To give some statistics from 2017- 'one in five LGBT people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their sexual orientation and/or gender identity in the last 12 months. Two in five trans people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months. Four in five anti-LGBT hate crimes and incidents go unreported, with younger LGBT people particularly reluctant to go to the police.'
More recently, the rate of LGBT hate crime per capita rose by 144% between 2013-14 and 2017-18. In the most recent year of data, police recorded 11,600 crimes, more than doubling from 4,600 during this period. And people ask why LGBT people stay hidden?
Whilst there'd still be some work to be done, having some 'out' professional footballers would certainly help reduce these attitudes, particularly amongst younger people, and any reduction is good news.86 -
Just regarding the increase in hate crime numbers. Is it a fact that the number of crimes has risen or is it more that people are more inclined to report such crimes as they were previously? I don't know the answer, I'm interested in other's thoughts.0
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Excellent post, and articulates the issue far better than a straight person could have done.WattsTheMatter said:I'd like to share a few thoughts on this.
I was openly bisexual from 14, in quite a supposedly liberal school (and later university). One of my best friends is also gay. To say that people in the 21st century UK don't have problems with it, or don't care about sexuality is so hilariously wrong.
Everyone I knew who was even suspected of being anything other than straight got abuse, both verbal and physical, and some of it to an extent that would make you feel sick. The clique where these attitudes, the idea that this was acceptable, was most prevalent? The football team and those who were big football fans. They were more than happy to practise their kicking on those they knew were gay because they knew that most people would turn their heads.
I saw the same in sixth form, where people thought words like fa**ot were legitimate. I see some of the same at university. And despite the sheer whataboutism in some of the earlier posts, the football community was a commonality in all 3 places. Just because some religious groups are known to have issues with homosexuality, it doesn't mean there isn't serious work to be done in football, from grassroots up to professional level.
To return briefly to my earlier point about the UK at large, how many of you would be afraid of your return journey home with a tattoo or face paint of your football team? Well that's the reality of some I knew coming home from Pride, who washed any facepaint off because they were afraid of being attacked. To give some statistics from 2017- 'one in five LGBT people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their sexual orientation and/or gender identity in the last 12 months. Two in five trans people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months. Four in five anti-LGBT hate crimes and incidents go unreported, with younger LGBT people particularly reluctant to go to the police.'
More recently, the rate of LGBT hate crime per capita rose by 144% between 2013-14 and 2017-18. In the most recent year of data, police recorded 11,600 crimes, more than doubling from 4,600 during this period. And people ask why LGBT people stay hidden?
Whilst there'd still be some work to be done, having some 'out' professional footballers would certainly help reduce these attitudes, particularly amongst younger people, and any reduction is good news.11 -
Genuinely think there's probably a bit of both. A lot of stuff that would have gone unreported in the past is now being captured in statistics, but it's also fair to say that social media is a horrible outlet for the turds in society to think they can act like shit bags with impunity. There's also the undeniable rise of it being acceptable to be "anti-anything you don't understand" and calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a 'snowflake' to contend with.church-lane said:Just regarding the increase in hate crime numbers. Is it a fact that the number of crimes has risen or is it more that people are more inclined to report such crimes as they were previously? I don't know the answer, I'm interested in other's thoughts.12 -
Basically in line with the general rise in anti-intellectualism in the U.K.Leroy Ambrose said:
Genuinely think there's probably a bit of both. A lot of stuff that would have gone unreported in the past is now being captured in statistics, but it's also fair to say that social media is a horrible outlet for the turds in society to think they can act like shit bags with impunity. There's also the undeniable rise of it being acceptable to be "anti-anything you don't understand" and calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a 'snowflake' to contend with.church-lane said:Just regarding the increase in hate crime numbers. Is it a fact that the number of crimes has risen or is it more that people are more inclined to report such crimes as they were previously? I don't know the answer, I'm interested in other's thoughts.3 -
Pretty much. But also good that more people feel able to report it - especially given some of the attitudes displayed on this thread.se9addick said:
Basically in line with the general rise in anti-intellectualism in the U.K.Leroy Ambrose said:
Genuinely think there's probably a bit of both. A lot of stuff that would have gone unreported in the past is now being captured in statistics, but it's also fair to say that social media is a horrible outlet for the turds in society to think they can act like shit bags with impunity. There's also the undeniable rise of it being acceptable to be "anti-anything you don't understand" and calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a 'snowflake' to contend with.church-lane said:Just regarding the increase in hate crime numbers. Is it a fact that the number of crimes has risen or is it more that people are more inclined to report such crimes as they were previously? I don't know the answer, I'm interested in other's thoughts.3 -
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Patrick Bamford?0
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He's 25.Covered End said:Patrick Bamford?0 -
Apart from anything else, it gives a chance for non-bigoted fans to stand in support of the 'out' footballers. Appreciate it would be very hard to be the one gay player to volunteer yourself to the abuse though. Very important that this stuff gets shouted down by other fans too.WattsTheMatter said:I'd like to share a few thoughts on this.
I was openly bisexual from 14, in quite a supposedly liberal school (and later university). One of my best friends is also gay. To say that people in the 21st century UK don't have problems with it, or don't care about sexuality is so hilariously wrong.
Everyone I knew who was even suspected of being anything other than straight got abuse, both verbal and physical, and some of it to an extent that would make you feel sick. The clique where these attitudes, the idea that this was acceptable, was most prevalent? The football team and those who were big football fans. They were more than happy to practise their kicking on those they knew were gay because they knew that most people would turn their heads.
I saw the same in sixth form, where people thought words like fa**ot were legitimate. I see some of the same at university. And despite the sheer whataboutism in some of the earlier posts, the football community was a commonality in all 3 places. Just because some religious groups are known to have issues with homosexuality, it doesn't mean there isn't serious work to be done in football, from grassroots up to professional level.
To return briefly to my earlier point about the UK at large, how many of you would be afraid of your return journey home with a tattoo or face paint of your football team? Well that's the reality of some I knew coming home from Pride, who washed any facepaint off because they were afraid of being attacked. To give some statistics from 2017- 'one in five LGBT people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their sexual orientation and/or gender identity in the last 12 months. Two in five trans people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months. Four in five anti-LGBT hate crimes and incidents go unreported, with younger LGBT people particularly reluctant to go to the police.'
More recently, the rate of LGBT hate crime per capita rose by 144% between 2013-14 and 2017-18. In the most recent year of data, police recorded 11,600 crimes, more than doubling from 4,600 during this period. And people ask why LGBT people stay hidden?
Whilst there'd still be some work to be done, having some 'out' professional footballers would certainly help reduce these attitudes, particularly amongst younger people, and any reduction is good news.
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Daniel Sturridge?Covered End said:Patrick Bamford?0 -
Interesting to see a Charlton man appearing on his timeline as his most recent retweet0
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Assume that was a Charlton fan who attended the NY Stonewall Gay Pride rally? Interesting RT indeed.Chizz said:Interesting to see a Charlton man appearing on his timeline as his most recent retweet1 -
The account retweeted the player/manager of our Invicta team - most likely as we’re quite prominent in our support for it so it’s well known.Weegie Addick said:
Assume that was a Charlton fan who attended the NY Stonewall Gay Pride rally? Interesting RT indeed.Chizz said:Interesting to see a Charlton man appearing on his timeline as his most recent retweet
Highly unlikely to be a Charlton player given that he referenced meeting the “manager and Chairman”. Has Duchâtelet had any meetings about Charlton for the past 2 years?2 -
It would be fairly accurate to describe Bowyer and Murray as Manager and Chairman, as Richard Murray is (or has been) non-executive Chairman of the club for several years.allez les addicks said:
The account retweeted the player/manager of our Invicta team - most likely as we’re quite prominent in our support for it so it’s well known.Weegie Addick said:
Assume that was a Charlton fan who attended the NY Stonewall Gay Pride rally? Interesting RT indeed.Chizz said:Interesting to see a Charlton man appearing on his timeline as his most recent retweet
Highly unlikely to be a Charlton player given that he referenced meeting the “manager and Chairman”. Has Duchâtelet had any meetings about Charlton for the past 2 years?
I am not suggesting that the player is a current or former Charlton player, but the fact he said he met the Manager and Chairman wouldn't necessarily rule it out.0 -
Interesting point about washing face paint off.WattsTheMatter said:I'd like to share a few thoughts on this.
I was openly bisexual from 14, in quite a supposedly liberal school (and later university). One of my best friends is also gay. To say that people in the 21st century UK don't have problems with it, or don't care about sexuality is so hilariously wrong.
Everyone I knew who was even suspected of being anything other than straight got abuse, both verbal and physical, and some of it to an extent that would make you feel sick. The clique where these attitudes, the idea that this was acceptable, was most prevalent? The football team and those who were big football fans. They were more than happy to practise their kicking on those they knew were gay because they knew that most people would turn their heads.
I saw the same in sixth form, where people thought words like fa**ot were legitimate. I see some of the same at university. And despite the sheer whataboutism in some of the earlier posts, the football community was a commonality in all 3 places. Just because some religious groups are known to have issues with homosexuality, it doesn't mean there isn't serious work to be done in football, from grassroots up to professional level.
To return briefly to my earlier point about the UK at large, how many of you would be afraid of your return journey home with a tattoo or face paint of your football team? Well that's the reality of some I knew coming home from Pride, who washed any facepaint off because they were afraid of being attacked. To give some statistics from 2017- 'one in five LGBT people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their sexual orientation and/or gender identity in the last 12 months. Two in five trans people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months. Four in five anti-LGBT hate crimes and incidents go unreported, with younger LGBT people particularly reluctant to go to the police.'
More recently, the rate of LGBT hate crime per capita rose by 144% between 2013-14 and 2017-18. In the most recent year of data, police recorded 11,600 crimes, more than doubling from 4,600 during this period. And people ask why LGBT people stay hidden?
Whilst there'd still be some work to be done, having some 'out' professional footballers would certainly help reduce these attitudes, particularly amongst younger people, and any reduction is good news.
It baffles me why anyone over the age of 10, not on holiday or blind drunk would havr there face painted in public..0 -
And that is where the rest of us have to stand up and be counted. What I will never understand is the entitlement some football fans think they have. I'm a football fan so its ok the act like a yob, be disrespectful, insult people, be racist, be sexist, be homophobic etc... Well I think being a football fan shouldn't excuse you from personal standards. The culture that it does has to change.wmcf123 said:Football is horrendously homophonic - I genuinely think the vocal minority will give anyone that is brave enough to come out untold grief5 -
I think a standing ovation from all 4 stands of the ground should be due for this fella when he visits the valley. 100% support.8
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Isn't that still treating him differently though? I would've thought he would rather just be treated like every other player on the pitch and have his sexuality not made reference to.YTS1978 said:I think a standing ovation from all 4 stands of the ground should be due for this fella when he visits the valley. 100% support.11 -
my point exactly.Talal said:
Isn't that still treating him differently though? I would've thought he would rather just be treated like every other player on the pitch and have his sexuality not made reference to.YTS1978 said:I think a standing ovation from all 4 stands of the ground should be due for this fella when he visits the valley. 100% support.1 - Sponsored links:
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The courage it takes to come out when you are a pro football player is commendable and without doubt an inspiration.Talal said:
Isn't that still treating him differently though? I would've thought he would rather just be treated like every other player on the pitch and have his sexuality not made reference to.YTS1978 said:I think a standing ovation from all 4 stands of the ground should be due for this fella when he visits the valley. 100% support.
The player has put himself on a pedestal. Absolutely should be treated like any other player, but as the first in 30 years, his bravery should be recognised.
Hopefully more will follow and we can move on....6 -
What if he's Millwall ?YTS1978 said:I think a standing ovation from all 4 stands of the ground should be due for this fella when he visits the valley. 100% support.
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Exactly, he's not being treated differently because of his orientation, but because, unfortunately, it represents a ballsy decision that is unprecedented in the sport.1
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Then I'd applaud him for his bravery...and hope he has a shocker of a season!Covered End said:
What if he's Millwall ?YTS1978 said:I think a standing ovation from all 4 stands of the ground should be due for this fella when he visits the valley. 100% support.8 -
@Bedsaddick
why do you behave like a petulant child and LOL many of my comments - tad sad and think its best to grow up if you want to speak with the adults.6 -
Personally i think it's sad people get offended by likes, lols and (used to be) flags.
Think that's a bit childish imo.
Water off a duck's back and all that.7 -
No, it would be in recognition of his bravery and a show of support. But each to their own, people can ignore him or whatever, its a free countryTalal said:
Isn't that still treating him differently though? I would've thought he would rather just be treated like every other player on the pitch and have his sexuality not made reference to.YTS1978 said:I think a standing ovation from all 4 stands of the ground should be due for this fella when he visits the valley. 100% support.
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He’s offended againpalarsehater said:@Bedsaddick
why do you behave like a petulant child and LOL many of my comments - tad sad and think its best to grow up if you want to speak with the adults.1 -
Good point haha!JollyRobin said:
Then I'd applaud him for his bravery...and hope he has a shocker of a season!Covered End said:
What if he's Millwall ?YTS1978 said:I think a standing ovation from all 4 stands of the ground should be due for this fella when he visits the valley. 100% support.0 -
sounds about rightBR7_addick said:
He’s offended againpalarsehater said:@Bedsaddick
why do you behave like a petulant child and LOL many of my comments - tad sad and think its best to grow up if you want to speak with the adults.
danger2
This discussion has been closed.
