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So - a lot of people seem to be saying "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) and heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, as much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a very difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that sort of ignores the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
It reminds me a little of that Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless. I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
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I do feel the world of football is slowly moving on and once players don't feel the need to hide their sexuality nobody will really be that interested.PaddyP17 said:So - a lot of people seem to be saying "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) and heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, as much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a very difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that sort of ignores the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
It reminds me a little of that Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless. I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
I'm still amazed that we don't know of any gay footballers at the top level in 2019.0 -
Might be a Millwall playerTodds_right_hook said:Brave step. Once he reveals his identity I’m hoping he will then be left alone to live his life and not become a media play thing.
I’m pretty sure that the majority of people will be accepting and supporting but I hope he is prepared for the reception he will get at the den!!!2 -
But as I explained to you before you are openly straight. You mention your other half to work colleagues, talk about where you go on holiday together, bring her to events, walk down the street holding hands, introduce her to your family. You're an out straight guy.Dazzler21 said:I personally don't get why anyone has to be open about their sexuality, but no one should be forced to hide it either. Just live and let live.3 -
PaddyP17 said:So - a lot of people seem to be saying "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) and heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, as much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a very difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that sort of ignores the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
It reminds me a little of that Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless. I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
You softy liberal type!Very well said.
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Henry Irving said:
Might be a Millwall playerTodds_right_hook said:Brave step. Once he reveals his identity I’m hoping he will then be left alone to live his life and not become a media play thing.
I’m pretty sure that the majority of people will be accepting and supporting but I hope he is prepared for the reception he will get at the den!!!
I'm really hoping he is.2 -
Looking for a development feesam3110 said:Weird that they state they're under 23?11 -
I find it incredible that anyone doesn't understand why gay people sometimes feel the need to hide their sexuality given the level of homophobia that still exists in certain sectors of society. You don't generally get abuse for being straight or get religious bigots damning your lifestyle.Henry Irving said:
But as I explained to you before you are openly straight. You mention your other half to work colleagues, talk about where you go on holiday together, bring her to events, walk down the street holding hands, introduce her to your family. You're an out straight guy.Dazzler21 said:I personally don't get why anyone has to be open about their sexuality, but no one should be forced to hide it either. Just live and let live.6 -
To me it seems a somewhat contrived style of writing, rather unfeeling and clinically unemotional.
Maybe I am wrong and in a way I hope I am......but I just have some doubts about the authenticity of the content due to the style of delivery.1 - Sponsored links:
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Rightly or wrongly it’ll have been written by the agent prior to securing the book deal/Netflix series...2
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You forgot the Nike deal.Fumbluff said:Rightly or wrongly it’ll have been written by the agent prior to securing the book deal/Netflix series...0 -
We do. Lots of out players in the women's game.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I do feel the world of football is slowly moving on and once players don't feel the need to hide their sexuality nobody will really be that interested.PaddyP17 said:So - a lot of people seem to be saying "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) and heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, as much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a very difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that sort of ignores the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
It reminds me a little of that Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless. I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
I'm still amazed that we don't know of any gay footballers at the top level in 2019.3 -
That implies that there is a clear strategy being applied from the outset, which I don’t think is the case. If you look at the initial output, then if you take at face value:Weegie Addick said:The point has been made that by doing it this way it focusses attention on "who" it is rather than "what" he is. The build up helps with acceptance. I hope that's right and hope this is genuine.
1. they have only come out in the last couple of days, then on same day went straight on Twitter.
2. They told the world they had a meeting with their manager and chairman later that afternoon and that they didn’t know what it was about. Is that really fitting with a defined strategy and is that really the right way to go about things?
3. A lot of the approach seems similar to ‘The Secret Footballer’ - a few snippets of info thrown in (Championship, U23 etc) to not specifically reveal, but provide enough interest for people to speculate / guess etc.
4. It’s being built by those behind the account in a speculative building way. ‘My upcoming identity reveal’, the use of revelation etc
just my take. Having taken an interest in peoples use of social media identities since we started CL I think I generally have a pretty good radar of if someone is being genuine behind an account or not.
I of course may be wrong but my gut tells me this is not genuine.1 -
I was referring to the men's game - obviously a very different support. The only openly gay player I've heard of in English men's football was Liam Davis who played for Gainsborough Trinity.Henry Irving said:
We do. Lots of out players in the women's game.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I do feel the world of football is slowly moving on and once players don't feel the need to hide their sexuality nobody will really be that interested.PaddyP17 said:So - a lot of people seem to be saying "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) and heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, as much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a very difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that sort of ignores the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
It reminds me a little of that Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless. I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
I'm still amazed that we don't know of any gay footballers at the top level in 2019.
Other gay players seem to have come out after they've finished or once they've gone abroad.0 -
Homophobic attacks are on the increase. There's increasing nervousness amongst the gay community.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I find it incredible that anyone doesn't understand why gay people sometimes feel the need to hide their sexuality given the level of homophobia that still exists in certain sectors of society. You don't generally get abuse for being straight or get religious bigots damning your lifestyle.Henry Irving said:
But as I explained to you before you are openly straight. You mention your other half to work colleagues, talk about where you go on holiday together, bring her to events, walk down the street holding hands, introduce her to your family. You're an out straight guy.Dazzler21 said:I personally don't get why anyone has to be open about their sexuality, but no one should be forced to hide it either. Just live and let live.1 -
Some of our politicians and religious leaders don't help.JamesSeed said:
Homophobic attacks are on the increase. There's increasing nervousness amongst the gay community.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I find it incredible that anyone doesn't understand why gay people sometimes feel the need to hide their sexuality given the level of homophobia that still exists in certain sectors of society. You don't generally get abuse for being straight or get religious bigots damning your lifestyle.Henry Irving said:
But as I explained to you before you are openly straight. You mention your other half to work colleagues, talk about where you go on holiday together, bring her to events, walk down the street holding hands, introduce her to your family. You're an out straight guy.Dazzler21 said:I personally don't get why anyone has to be open about their sexuality, but no one should be forced to hide it either. Just live and let live.0 -
Exactly.Dazzler21 said:I personally don't get why anyone has to be open about their sexuality, but no one should be forced to hide it either. Just live and let live.
It is his private business.
If he's doing it for the greater good and to remind people that they shouldn't feel ashamed about who and what they are....then that's great.
No one actually needs to know though.
Just because you're a professional footballer....it doesn't mean everyone has to know everything about you.
When I go charlton....I enjoy the game, I watch it, I go home. Normal services resumed.
I return to my world.
I don't think...
"I wonder what Chris Solly is doing ....right now?
I wonder about the sexuality of Chris Solly.
It is my business"1 -
hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I was referring to the men's game - obviously a very different support. The only openly gay player I've heard of in English men's football was Liam Davis who played for Gainsborough Trinity.Henry Irving said:
We do. Lots of out players in the women's game.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I do feel the world of football is slowly moving on and once players don't feel the need to hide their sexuality nobody will really be that interested.PaddyP17 said:So - a lot of people seem to be saying "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) and heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, as much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a very difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that sort of ignores the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
It reminds me a little of that Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless. I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
I'm still amazed that we don't know of any gay footballers at the top level in 2019.
Other gay players seem to have come out after they've finished or once they've gone abroad.
It's about the profile of the game and certain elements of the fan base.Although the nature of the game would intuitively say otherwise, rugby (both codes) don't seem to have the same problem - Gareth Thomas, Nigel Owens, Keegan Hirst.
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Just my opinion but
Fake news.0 - Sponsored links:
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People should be free to be open about who they are and not feel an obligation to hide it - it's really not that hard to understand.Dave2l said:
Exactly.Dazzler21 said:I personally don't get why anyone has to be open about their sexuality, but no one should be forced to hide it either. Just live and let live.
It is his private business.
If he's doing it for the greater good and to remind people that they shouldn't feel ashamed about who and what they are....then that's great.
No one actually needs to know though.
Just because you're a professional footballer....it doesn't mean everyone has to know everything about you.
When I go charlton....I enjoy the game, I watch it, I go home. Normal services resumed.
I return to my world.
I don't think...
"I wonder what Chris Solly is doing ....right now?
I wonder about the sexuality of Chris Solly.
It is my business"
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Is it Red Bull ?0
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The minority of homophobic morons at football matches will give abuse to gay players but I believe it will gradually die out. I'd like to think the majority of football supporters are not stuck in the 1970s.bobmunro said:hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I was referring to the men's game - obviously a very different support. The only openly gay player I've heard of in English men's football was Liam Davis who played for Gainsborough Trinity.Henry Irving said:
We do. Lots of out players in the women's game.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I do feel the world of football is slowly moving on and once players don't feel the need to hide their sexuality nobody will really be that interested.PaddyP17 said:So - a lot of people seem to be saying "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) and heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, as much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a very difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that sort of ignores the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
It reminds me a little of that Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless. I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
I'm still amazed that we don't know of any gay footballers at the top level in 2019.
Other gay players seem to have come out after they've finished or once they've gone abroad.
It's about the profile of the game and certain elements of the fan base.Although the nature of the game would intuitively say otherwise, rugby (both codes) don't seem to have the same problem - Gareth Thomas, Nigel Owens, Keegan Hirst.
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I hope this is positive, I don't generally see why anyone needs to come out so to speak, never have. But if this is to raise awareness its a very brave thing to do and I hope there is no detrimental affect.
I saw they tweeted about FM now having people announce they are Gay , this seems a bit OTT and I am not sure why that would add anything to the game in anyway. Are they just randomly selecting players on there? all very odd on a football manager game in my opinion
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So it's down to the rest of the fanbase to stamp that behaviour out, if someone was hurling racist abuse at a player during a game I'm pretty sure someone would have a word, if the same thing is done for homophobic abuse these people will slowly learn they are not welcome within our grounds.bobmunro said:hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I was referring to the men's game - obviously a very different support. The only openly gay player I've heard of in English men's football was Liam Davis who played for Gainsborough Trinity.Henry Irving said:
We do. Lots of out players in the women's game.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I do feel the world of football is slowly moving on and once players don't feel the need to hide their sexuality nobody will really be that interested.PaddyP17 said:So - a lot of people seem to be saying "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) and heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, as much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a very difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that sort of ignores the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
It reminds me a little of that Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless. I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
I'm still amazed that we don't know of any gay footballers at the top level in 2019.
Other gay players seem to have come out after they've finished or once they've gone abroad.
It's about the profile of the game and certain elements of the fan base.Although the nature of the game would intuitively say otherwise, rugby (both codes) don't seem to have the same problem - Gareth Thomas, Nigel Owens, Keegan Hirst.
Everyone has a part to play in making football a more welcoming environment, I'm proud CAFC were at the forefront of 'Kick it Out' I really hope we can do something similar for the LGBTQ community.
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The Community Trust has certainly done work in this area.Stu_of_Kunming said:
So it's down to the rest of the fanbase to stamp that behaviour out, if someone was hurling racist abuse at a player during a game I'm pretty sure someone would have a word, if the same thing is done for homophobic abuse these people will slowly learn they are not welcome within our grounds.bobmunro said:hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I was referring to the men's game - obviously a very different support. The only openly gay player I've heard of in English men's football was Liam Davis who played for Gainsborough Trinity.Henry Irving said:
We do. Lots of out players in the women's game.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I do feel the world of football is slowly moving on and once players don't feel the need to hide their sexuality nobody will really be that interested.PaddyP17 said:So - a lot of people seem to be saying "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) and heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, as much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a very difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that sort of ignores the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
It reminds me a little of that Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless. I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
I'm still amazed that we don't know of any gay footballers at the top level in 2019.
Other gay players seem to have come out after they've finished or once they've gone abroad.
It's about the profile of the game and certain elements of the fan base.Although the nature of the game would intuitively say otherwise, rugby (both codes) don't seem to have the same problem - Gareth Thomas, Nigel Owens, Keegan Hirst.
Everyone has a part to play in making football a more welcoming environment, I'm proud CAFC were at the forefront of 'Kick it Out' I really hope we can do something similar for the LGBTQ community.0 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:
So it's down to the rest of the fanbase to stamp that behaviour out, if someone was hurling racist abuse at a player during a game I'm pretty sure someone would have a word, if the same thing is done for homophobic abuse these people will slowly learn they are not welcome within our grounds.bobmunro said:hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I was referring to the men's game - obviously a very different support. The only openly gay player I've heard of in English men's football was Liam Davis who played for Gainsborough Trinity.Henry Irving said:
We do. Lots of out players in the women's game.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
I do feel the world of football is slowly moving on and once players don't feel the need to hide their sexuality nobody will really be that interested.PaddyP17 said:So - a lot of people seem to be saying "a player's sexuality doesn't matter to me/I couldn't care less" - so on, so forth, similar sentiments.
This is, on the surface of things, all very well and good.
However, it does also present somewhat of a problem, especially in the context of association football. Let me see if I can explain in relative brevity. And I'm fully aware I'm about to sound like a softy liberal type.
My first question would be - do you have to come out if you're straight? Most of you would say "No of course not, that's ludicrous" - and fair enough, because to identify as cisgender (i.e. if your gender identity conforms to your biological sex) and heterosexual is seen as the overwhelming norm throughout the world.
So, to admit that you're different, if you're gay/bi/trans/anything else on the spectrum, somewhere in between things, whatever - that takes 1) an incredible amount of courage to deviate from what is "normal"; 2) a significant period of time where one has to come to terms with "who one is"; and 3) a lot of consideration as to how people will react.
Because there are still homophobes in this world, as much as there are racists and other bigots.
Couple coming out with a sport that is infamous for its historically casually homophobic attitude, and you're in a very difficult position. To say "oh but it won't matter to me/couldn't care less" - sure, fair enough and good on ya, but that sort of ignores the discrimination and hate the LGBTQ+ community face on a daily basis.
It reminds me a little of that Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."
As a footballing community, we should be encouraging people to come out. We should create a space where their sexuality is meaningless. I look forward to the day where no-one gives a toss (much like no-one should give a toss about skin colour). No-one can change their sexuality or gender identity.
And if we can create a space where they're accepted as is (but, of course, being told they're shit at football if they're shit at football or whatever), then we'll be getting there.
I'm still amazed that we don't know of any gay footballers at the top level in 2019.
Other gay players seem to have come out after they've finished or once they've gone abroad.
It's about the profile of the game and certain elements of the fan base.Although the nature of the game would intuitively say otherwise, rugby (both codes) don't seem to have the same problem - Gareth Thomas, Nigel Owens, Keegan Hirst.
Everyone has a part to play in making football a more welcoming environment, I'm proud CAFC were at the forefront of 'Kick it Out' I really hope we can do something similar for the LGBTQ community.100% agree.
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Can't wait for his unique insight on the subject.carly burn said:0 -
Cafc43v3r said:
If you were LBGT and weren't "out" to your work mates would you be happy taking your partner to a works do? If your a footballer, or anyone else in the public eye, you can't lead a normal life if your hiding your sexuality.Dazzler21 said:I personally don't get why anyone has to be open about their sexuality, but no one should be forced to hide it either. Just live and let live.
Of course your right, that's how it should be, unfortunately we all know that's not how easy life is, even in 2019.
Interesting story, or not? Someone I currently work with joined our department from another, he would always refer to 'partner' or Christina, 6 months down the line some of the girls in the office basically saw through instagram that 'she' was in fact ' he' but he continued to still refer to his 'Mrs' everytime , which started getting a bit annoying. A team leader mentioned in a 1-2-1 people think you have a BF not a GF, to gauge their reaction and hopefully get them to just not lie, this did not come out still.Eventually probably a year down the line, he suddenly refer to Christopher not Christina. My Boyfriend, whilst I know it must be very hard but it was the whole ordeal and the constant lies which started to annoy people, once we knew it kind of made sense but before then no one would have any idea. It was also bad as it must have been so hard for him to live every day life knowing they were lieing.
Cliffs- Noone was any different after the event and basically it would have been better for him if he had been open from the off
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