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VAR - are you a fan?

hoof_it_up_to_benty
hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,443
in General Charlton
Have to say I was never a fan of it before it was introduced but given the constant criticism of referees it was inevitable it would be used. 

It has been a disaster in the Women's World Cup - it's slowed the game down massively and incorrect decisions still appear to be made in respect of penalties and offsides. I'm also unhappy with replays being shown on the screens in stadiums which could lead to trouble after contentious decisions.

The spontaneity of the game will disappear.
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Comments

  • AdTheAddicK
    AdTheAddicK Posts: 3,379
    I'm not no. The games been played and loved by many years without it. If anyone actually thinks refs are biased there dumb. 
  • Nug
    Nug Posts: 4,623
    No. They really need to figure out how best to use it without negatively impacting the game. They are a long way off at the moment and if it carries on this way I can’t imagine watching many games. Although it does add a bizarre sort of drama.
  • Addickted
    Addickted Posts: 19,456
    Agree.

    Offside because you've got bigger tits than the defender is ridiculous.
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,142
    No... As said on the other thread at the end of the day its still a matter of opinion, and is not being used for clear and obvious errors. 
  • CHG
    CHG Posts: 4,529
    Is it VAR that is the issue or the laws that it is being used to implement?
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,318
    I was a fan of it when it was first announced and was a fan of it when it was used at the World Cup last year

    Now though it doesnt feel as though it is being used properly ... Officials either feel too scared to make a decision themselves (so go to VAR for whatever they can) or they dont go to VAR at all which makes me worry that it'll be used to "help" teams next season

    Think the best way to implement it is the challenge system which Muttley has mentioned on here a few times, let the officials concentrate on the game as before, if no one wants to challenge all game then VAR isnt used... If something is challenged correctly then the Manager gets to keep their challenge for later in the game and so forth etc., if they're wrong they lose the right to challenge for the rest of the match

    Regardless Im going to be interested to see what time games finish in the Premier League next season
  • Weegie Addick
    Weegie Addick Posts: 16,521
    CHG said:
    Is it VAR that is the issue or the laws that it is being used to implement?
    The issue is that many decisions are still subjective, so you end up with difference of opinion between ref on pitch and VAR ref. Results in a lack of authority and ultimately chaos.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,443
    ForeverAddickted said:
    I was a fan of it when it was first announced and was a fan of it when it was used at the World Cup last year

    Now though it doesnt feel as though it is being used properly ... Officials either feel too scared to make a decision themselves (so go to VAR for whatever they can) or they dont go to VAR at all which makes me worry that it'll be used to "help" teams next season

    Think the best way to implement it is the challenge system which Muttley has mentioned on here a few times, let the officials concentrate on the game as before, if no one wants to challenge all game then VAR isnt used... If something is challenged correctly then the Manager gets to keep their challenge for later in the game and so forth etc., if they're wrong they lose the right to challenge for the rest of the match

    Regardless Im going to be interested to see what time games finish in the Premier League next season
    Some of the penalty decisions have taken 5 minutes plus to decide in the Womens World Cup - if a decision is that unclear it shouldn't be given.
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,318
    edited June 2019
    CHG said:
    Is it VAR that is the issue or the laws that it is being used to implement?
    Both... Handball rule needs to have an ex-player with the VAR officials to explain why the arm might be out (e.g. for leverage when jumping)

    Offside needs to change to become the full player beyond the last man rather than part of them, the fact that a player can be inches offside and worked out now is ruining the game too... We go to games to see goals, not 0-0's
  • Weegie Addick
    Weegie Addick Posts: 16,521
    Agree, if not clear it should be Ref's Call like Umpire's Call in cricket.
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  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,598

    Addickted said:
    Agree.

    Offside because you've got bigger tits than the defender is ridiculous.

    Agree, I always fall foul of that one.


  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,010
    Anything that can help the referees to make the correct decision is a positive..........but currently it's a farce.

    Almost every game has some kind of delay, people not knowing what's going on etc. FIFA also need to step in and clarify exactly what it's going to be used for. It was supposed to be used (as far as i can recall) for 'clear and obvious' errors, but we now have the VAR panel and referees re-watching every incident to cover their arses.

    Take yesterdays Spain v USA game. The game was held up for 5 and a half minutes so the ref could review a penalty decision that was at best really soft. If they're going to review it, the panel should tell the ref immediately. I'd introduce some sort of time limit to when it can be reviewed, in cricket for example it's 15 seconds i believe. I'd give it 30 seconds max for the panel to notify the ref and then the ref 1 minute max to watch the replays and make a decision. Holding up games for 5-6 minutes is an absolute joke.
  • cafc999
    cafc999 Posts: 4,967
    Yes and no

    I think it needs to be implemented better. For example, make it that teams can only call for VAR once a half and not the officials.  That way it should stop some of the confusion.
  • StigThundercock
    StigThundercock Posts: 3,722
    As a tool to help eliminate howlers by officials and to identify serious transgressors it has its place and value. The current implementation is risible. FIFA and its underlings are obsessed with toadying to TV in order to stay in the 1st class carriages of their opulent gravy train. There is currently no consideration for the credibility of the game. The current WWC tournament is a shining example. FIFA: “tv is god, how may we debase ourselves further to remain blessed by the supreme deity?”  Deity in this context being paymaster. 
    Could VAR improve games? Obviously yes
    Is VAR improving games? 
    Only if you’re on the appropriate FIFA committee with a Cayman Island bank account 
  • CHG
    CHG Posts: 4,529
    ForeverAddickted said:
    CHG said:
    Is it VAR that is the issue or the laws that it is being used to implement?
    Both... Handball rule needs to have an ex-player with the VAR officials to explain why the arm might be out (e.g. for leverage when jumping)

    Offside needs to change to become the full player beyond the last man rather than part of them, the fact that a player can be inches offside and worked out now is ruining the game too... We go to games to see goals, not 0-0's
    Agree with the laws of the handball needing to be amended, and the offside for that fact, VAR can only implement the laws. 
  • Pelling1993
    Pelling1993 Posts: 6,673
    Should be used like DRS in my opinion, each side gets 1 referral per half, if the referral is correct you keep you review, if you're wrong you lose it. They also desperately need to change the rule on the keeper being on the line from a penalty as you need momentum in order to dive effectively, and the 30cm they gain for moving forward is so negligible anyway 
  • Bedsaddick
    Bedsaddick Posts: 24,736
    Hate it.  It’s ruined the games I’ve watched when it’s been used this year . 
    Players make mistake as do refs and that is part and parcel of the game . Let’s keep it that way . 
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,443
    CHG said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    CHG said:
    Is it VAR that is the issue or the laws that it is being used to implement?
    Both... Handball rule needs to have an ex-player with the VAR officials to explain why the arm might be out (e.g. for leverage when jumping)

    Offside needs to change to become the full player beyond the last man rather than part of them, the fact that a player can be inches offside and worked out now is ruining the game too... We go to games to see goals, not 0-0's
    Agree with the laws of the handball needing to be amended, and the offside for that fact, VAR can only implement the laws. 
    Some of the refs dont seem to understand offside.
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,318
    Bedsaddick said:
    Hate it.  It’s ruined the games I’ve watched when it’s been used this year . 
    Players make mistake as do refs and that is part and parcel of the game . Let’s keep it that way . 
    Too much money in the game now though

    The rewards of winning and costs of failure are too great now

    Take away the amount of money and bet teams will care a lot less if a decision goes against them
  • CHG
    CHG Posts: 4,529
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    CHG said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    CHG said:
    Is it VAR that is the issue or the laws that it is being used to implement?
    Both... Handball rule needs to have an ex-player with the VAR officials to explain why the arm might be out (e.g. for leverage when jumping)

    Offside needs to change to become the full player beyond the last man rather than part of them, the fact that a player can be inches offside and worked out now is ruining the game too... We go to games to see goals, not 0-0's
    Agree with the laws of the handball needing to be amended, and the offside for that fact, VAR can only implement the laws. 
    Some of the refs dont seem to understand offside.
    That is a ref issue, from what I have seen they don't get much wrong, admittedly, I don't agree with it and I think the marginal offside decisions are unnecessary. 
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  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,598
    Bedsaddick said:
    Hate it.  It’s ruined the games I’ve watched when it’s been used this year . 
    Players make mistake as do refs and that is part and parcel of the game . Let’s keep it that way . 


    100% agree. It's a game played and refereed by humans. Humans make mistakes, live with it. The problem is that the game is such big business and high pressured now that every mistake/bad decision is argued and debated to the nth degree.

    I might be an old fart but would love to see a return to the belief that the referee's decision is final and players  & managers just get on with it.

    Happy for the goal line technology and video evidence for retrospectively punishing elbows/spitting etc.


  • PeterGage
    PeterGage Posts: 1,793
    Addickted said:
    Agree.

    Offside because you've got bigger tits than the defender is ridiculous.
    And that's just the men !!
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,318
    Why dont we just do away with officials during the games?

    Let the players have a free for all and decide the match amongst themselves with an official purely there for time keeping

    Once the game / blood bath is finished it can be reviewed by a video team who can chalk off goals and add bookings / suspensions where needed
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,010
    cafc999 said:
    Yes and no

    I think it needs to be implemented better. For example, make it that teams can only call for VAR once a half and not the officials.  That way it should stop some of the confusion.
    Doesn't help if there are 3 incidents though.

    You can't say 'sorry i have to allow that goal because you already called an incident earlier in the half'.

    Unless you mean to introduce a review system like cricket where you get 2 reviews. If you review and it's wrong you lose a review, if you're right you keep it. That's fair and would stop excessive reviewing.
  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,150
    DaveMehmet said:
    Bedsaddick said:
    Hate it.  It’s ruined the games I’ve watched when it’s been used this year . 
    Players make mistake as do refs and that is part and parcel of the game . Let’s keep it that way . 


    100% agree. It's a game played and refereed by humans. Humans make mistakes, live with it. The problem is that the game is such big business and high pressured now that every mistake/bad decision is argued and debated to the nth degree.

    I might be an old fart but would love to see a return to the belief that the referee's decision is final and players  & managers just get on with it.

    Happy for the goal line technology and video evidence for retrospectively punishing elbows/spitting etc.


    My thoughts entirely Dave. Add to that retrospective (long ban) punishments for diving too. 

    Wild thought just entered my head - where applicable the diver is banned from the next couple of games against the club who were affected by his cheating, as well as the statutory three matches? 
  • cafc999
    cafc999 Posts: 4,967
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    cafc999 said:
    Yes and no

    I think it needs to be implemented better. For example, make it that teams can only call for VAR once a half and not the officials.  That way it should stop some of the confusion.
    Doesn't help if there are 3 incidents though.

    You can't say 'sorry i have to allow that goal because you already called an incident earlier in the half'.

    Unless you mean to introduce a review system like cricket where you get 2 reviews. If you review and it's wrong you lose a review, if you're right you keep it. That's fair and would stop excessive reviewing.
    Just like cricket and the NFL - it's the chance you take. 
  • Danepak
    Danepak Posts: 1,628
    ForeverAddickted said:

    Too much money in the game now though

    Which is one of the main issues with football today.
  • stevexreeve
    stevexreeve Posts: 1,386
    It's not clear to me how the review system would work if the ref decided against a penalty and let play continue.

    Would you be able to appeal and stop the game while play continued and possibly prevent a break-away attack?

    The danger is that refs would tend to give dodgy penalty decisions that they weren't really sure about and invite the defender to appeal. The defender would then look towards the coaching staff (frantically replaying the incident on their phones) for advice about whether to appeal.
  • AddickFC81
    AddickFC81 Posts: 4,053
    cafc999 said:
    Yes and no

    I think it needs to be implemented better. For example, make it that teams can only call for VAR once a half and not the officials.  That way it should stop some of the confusion.
    100% THIS
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,318
    stevexreeve said:
    It's not clear to me how the review system would work if the ref decided against a penalty and let play continue.

    Would you be able to appeal and stop the game while play continued and possibly prevent a break-away attack?

    The danger is that refs would tend to give dodgy penalty decisions that they weren't really sure about and invite the defender to appeal. The defender would then look towards the coaching staff (frantically replaying the incident on their phones) for advice about whether to appeal.
    Is a good point but maybe thats where it gets reviewed the moment the game is actually stopped

    If you wanted to appeal whilst an opposition is counter attacking (and so potentially stop them get a corner / goal themselves) you cant yet have to wait until that happens or the ball goes out of play for a throw in, even a free kick

    Penalty kick can then be reviewed accordingly, if the appeal is right then the penalty is given and whatever has happened gets chalked off - If its wrong then play resumes from the point of the corner / free kick / throw in or kick off if the other team scored during that breakaway

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