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Season Ticket Refund

2

Comments

  • jdsd42
    jdsd42 Posts: 1,498
    Why would you want to return your ticket !!!
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,733
    Maybe having a weaker team than we had last season, with a different manager might be a reason - if it happens. We know Duchatelet is a complete plank and we haven't seen anything since Wembley to suggest he has changed so it is reasonable for us to assume the worst surely!
  • RanTooFar
    RanTooFar Posts: 324
    Why would you buy a season ticket when this was the most likely outcome?

    I'm really surprised at the number of people rushing out to buy one after we got promoted. The likelihood at this stage is relegation
  • PopIcon
    PopIcon Posts: 5,970
    jdsd42 said:
    Why would you want to return your ticket !!!
    Because of the ongoing shit-storm at the club. Sure, we dont buy season tickets expecting success on the pitch. However, I would expect after last season a desire to compete in the Championship.
    I will make my decision at the end of the month.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,450
    Season tickets for next season may be one of the worst purchases of recent times.
  • kentred2
    kentred2 Posts: 2,337
    Why does anyone support Duchatelet by buying a season ticket? Unbelievable 
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,450
    kentred2 said:
    Why does anyone support Duchatelet by buying a season ticket? Unbelievable 
    To watch Charlton - there are lots of reasons. I don't support RD.


  • Rizzo
    Rizzo Posts: 6,435
    @lancashire lad - Given that your stated reason for wanting to return the tickets is the Lee Bowyer contract situation, I'm curious as to when you decided to buy them and what you thought was going to happen at that stage?
  • Jodaius
    Jodaius Posts: 562
    Lots of incorrect information on this thread, but interestingly also in the club's terms and conditions.

    Paragraph 21 of the terms and conditions states:

    21. Purchases made on or after April 13th 2019 shall have no right to cancel their season ticket after that date. The club relies upon the exception under Reg. 6 (2) (b) of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, under which there is no 
    cooling off period following an applicant’s acceptance.

    However, I believe this is rubbish. The regulations referred to above no longer apply to contracts entered into after 13 June 2014 - they were replaced by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

    Now, this is where it gets complicated. The equivalent exemption which the club would be seeking to rely on in the new regulations is as follows:-

    28.1 (h) the supply of accommodation, transport of goods, vehicle rental services, catering or services related to leisure activities, if the contract provides for a specific date or period of performance.

    Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I think there may be a strong legal argument that this can't apply for season tickets purchased before the fixtures are released. I would argue that 'period of performance' refers to situations such as hotel bookings or car hire where a service is to be provided continuously over a clearly defined period. I don't believe it can be reasonably applied to a situation where you have entered into a contract to receive 23 separate services on dates as yet to be determined over the course of a 1 year period.

    The potential implications of this if I'm right are as follows:

    1) The automatic 14 day cancellation right would apply.

    2) The club would have to write to everybody who has already purchased, informing them of this right and giving them an additional 14 days from the date of the letter to cancel, regardless of when they bought their ticket. Otherwise, the right to cancel is automatically extended to 12 months (although any refund could be reduced for services already provided, ie. matches attended).

    3) A criminal offence may have been committed in respect of every season ticket sold so far without informing the customer of their cancellation rights. The maximum fine for this offence, which could potentially apply per transaction, is £5,000.

    I have no idea whether any of the above has been tested in court, but I do know that other fans groups have won successful rulings against clubs for unfair contract terms in relation to season tickets in the past.

    So, who wants to take this on!?
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  • SE7toSG3
    SE7toSG3 Posts: 3,140
    edited June 2019
    Above is indicative of the sorry state we find ourselves in. 

    True support for our club I believe is shown by both ST holders and protesters in equal measure, whichever you are, it shows you passionately care about the club and neither, in a perfect world, should be critical of the other. Realistically thats not the case and so we are left with sniping away when we all want the same thing, the best for our club.

    Do what is best for yourself, the bad guy in all this is the owner not us. 

  • Cardinal Sin
    Cardinal Sin Posts: 5,233
    edited June 2019
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Maybe having a weaker team than we had last season, with a different manager might be a reason - if it happens. We know Duchatelet is a complete plank and we haven't seen anything since Wembley to suggest he has changed so it is reasonable for us to assume the worst surely!
    To be fair Muttley, we knew that before the season tickets went on sale.
  • Dippenhall
    Dippenhall Posts: 3,919
    Jodaius said:
    Lots of incorrect information on this thread, but interestingly also in the club's terms and conditions.

    Paragraph 21 of the terms and conditions states:

    21. Purchases made on or after April 13th 2019 shall have no right to cancel their season ticket after that date. The club relies upon the exception under Reg. 6 (2) (b) of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, under which there is no 
    cooling off period following an applicant’s acceptance.

    However, I believe this is rubbish. The regulations referred to above no longer apply to contracts entered into after 13 June 2014 - they were replaced by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

    Now, this is where it gets complicated. The equivalent exemption which the club would be seeking to rely on in the new regulations is as follows:-

    28.1 (h) the supply of accommodation, transport of goods, vehicle rental services, catering or services related to leisure activities, if the contract provides for a specific date or period of performance.

    Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I think there may be a strong legal argument that this can't apply for season tickets purchased before the fixtures are released. I would argue that 'period of performance' refers to situations such as hotel bookings or car hire where a service is to be provided continuously over a clearly defined period. I don't believe it can be reasonably applied to a situation where you have entered into a contract to receive 23 separate services on dates as yet to be determined over the course of a 1 year period.

    The potential implications of this if I'm right are as follows:

    1) The automatic 14 day cancellation right would apply.

    2) The club would have to write to everybody who has already purchased, informing them of this right and giving them an additional 14 days from the date of the letter to cancel, regardless of when they bought their ticket. Otherwise, the right to cancel is automatically extended to 12 months (although any refund could be reduced for services already provided, ie. matches attended).

    3) A criminal offence may have been committed in respect of every season ticket sold so far without informing the customer of their cancellation rights. The maximum fine for this offence, which could potentially apply per transaction, is £5,000.

    I have no idea whether any of the above has been tested in court, but I do know that other fans groups have won successful rulings against clubs for unfair contract terms in relation to season tickets in the past.

    So, who wants to take this on!?
    If you buy a single match day ticket the Ts&Cs say:-

    19. Match ticket holders that wish to obtain a refund on a home match ticket must ensure that the tickets are in possession of the ticket office no later than 24 hours prior to the time of kick-off. 

    So individual tickets are refundable.

    A season ticket is arguably simply the purchase of match day tickets in advance at a discount.  The Ts&Cs say 

    21. Purchases made on or after April 13th 2019 shall have no right to cancel their season ticket after that date. The club relies upon the exception under Reg. 6 (2) (b) of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, under which there is no cooling off period following an applicant’s acceptance. 

    It does not state that individual tickets are not refundable, but implied by its absence.  That could be regarded as a defective disclosure of T&Cs.  The purchase which cannot be cancelled is the advance purchase of all the tickets, but the refund of an individual ticket ought to be permissible.  If one individual ticket is refundable then all are refundable. 

    So I would argue that legally you can't cancel the advance purchase of the season tickets but you are able to send in each match day ticket for a refund.  Not to allow season ticket purchasers the same rights as individual ticket purchasers is arguably an unfair term applied to season ticket purchasers.
  • Addickted
    Addickted Posts: 19,456
    I hope a lot more will follow suit now.
  • Redhenry
    Redhenry Posts: 5,359
    Has anyone tried cancelling?
  • BR7_addick
    BR7_addick Posts: 10,212
    I’ve emailed to ask what their policy is I want to cancel four.
  • AllLeftFoot
    AllLeftFoot Posts: 1,500

    Not sure what might be left in the CARD kitty, but just a thought whether there could be some money put towards getting some clear legal advice on where people would stand in terms of a refund given the terms and conditions, and from that the development of a template letter and approach.

    Can't imagine that they are going to give anything back very easily, so something a bit more structured and co-ordinated could be a way forward?

    Just an idea, but feels there could be strength in numbers rather than individual requests.

  • ricky_otto
    ricky_otto Posts: 22,600
    edited June 2019
    Redhenry said:
    Has anyone tried cancelling?
    I have - stupidly I got caught in the Wembley Euphoria and bought 3. I have emailed asking what the refund policy is. The auto response is a bit strange though! 





  • Missed It
    Missed It Posts: 2,734
    Personally, I think a civil disobedience approach would be better than trying to make a single one off impact financially.  

    If large numbers of season ticket holders were to request refunds on a game by game basis as they were 'unfortunately unable to attend' the ticket office admin would be overwhelmed.  Sorry to make life hard for the staff, but not sorry if you know what I mean.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,733
    edited June 2019
    AllLeftFoot said:

    Not sure what might be left in the CARD kitty, but just a thought whether there could be some money put towards getting some clear legal advice on where people would stand in terms of a refund given the terms and conditions, and from that the development of a template letter and approach.

    Can't imagine that they are going to give anything back very easily, so something a bit more structured and co-ordinated could be a way forward?

    Just an idea, but feels there could be strength in numbers rather than individual requests.

    To be fair to CARD, maybe we could set up a separate fund. Might worry the club to know that is happening! I think we would need to know that there is some possibilty refunds can be obtained and a rough cost initial advice on this would be. I doubt it would be too much. Maybe somebody knows somebody who is a legal expert in this field of consumer law. 
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  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,864
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    AllLeftFoot said:

    Not sure what might be left in the CARD kitty, but just a thought whether there could be some money put towards getting some clear legal advice on where people would stand in terms of a refund given the terms and conditions, and from that the development of a template letter and approach.

    Can't imagine that they are going to give anything back very easily, so something a bit more structured and co-ordinated could be a way forward?

    Just an idea, but feels there could be strength in numbers rather than individual requests.

    To be fair to CARD, maybe we could set up a separate fund. Might worry the club to know that is happening! I think we would need to know that there is some possibilty refunds can be obtained and a rough cost initial advice on this would be. I doubt it would be too much. Maybe somebody knows somebody who is a legal expert in this field of consumer law. 
    Wouldn't it be better to see what the club response is first?
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,733
    edited June 2019
    Probably - I suspect any legal adviser would want to see that first. If you return something the provider will either accept it or provide a reason why not and that is important. No harm in thinking ahead, but you are right.
  • jondon76
    jondon76 Posts: 294
    We did have the same owner when we all  went to Wembley didn't we? Cant believe people were so naive to think things would change  when he's still ruining the club ! 
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    ricky_otto said:
    Redhenry said:
    Has anyone tried cancelling?
    I have - stupidly I got caught in the Wembley Euphoria and bought 3. I have emailed asking what the refund policy is. The auto response is a bit strange though! 





    Hi Mr Otto can I ask why you would like a refund on your season ticket , apart from me being a cnut.

  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,733
    E-mail the scouting address and recommend Lee Mack. His footballing skills match the owner's acumen! 
  • ricky_otto
    ricky_otto Posts: 22,600
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    E-mail the scouting address and recommend Lee Mack. His footballing skills match the owner's acumen! 
    I would do but I don’t want a response from Chief Scout Jonothan Acworth. 
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,075
    clb74 said:
    ricky_otto said:
    Redhenry said:
    Has anyone tried cancelling?
    I have - stupidly I got caught in the Wembley Euphoria and bought 3. I have emailed asking what the refund policy is. The auto response is a bit strange though! 





    Hi Mr Otto can I ask why you would like a refund on your season ticket , apart from me being a cnut.

    i am glad you have finally admitted this after all this time.
  • BDL
    BDL Posts: 6,001
    I suspect a few people on here work in various chambers around the Temple area and know Briefs who could give a bit of pro-bono advice?
  • BDL
    BDL Posts: 6,001
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yes but I don’t think a change of manager is one. You could try to claimback on your credit card as the service you bought is not being provided. But I doubt if it would work. What you describe is just football. The world’s daftest obsession.</p>&mdash; Paul Lewis (@paullewismoney) <a href="">June 17, 2019</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,886
    edited June 2019
    Posted by Bournemouth Addick on another thread just now;

    A few people have mentioned seeking a refund on recently purchased season tickets. As far as I know the relevant law applies to season tickets and provided they were purchased at a distance (i.e you didn't buy it at The Valley) you are entitled to a 14 day cooling off period. 

    More info and a template letter at...

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/changed-your-mind/changing-your-mind-about-something-youve-bought/

    If you are doing it, do it before the 14 days are up and before the fixtures come out as that will complicate matters considerably    .  

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