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"English" football success this week
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Nope, each Nation gets a maximum of seven spots in Europe each seasoncafcdave123 said:i think for rare things like this it should be looked at as as simple as it is, four English teams making the finals of the two biggest cups in Europe is bloody impressive.
on a side note, will the EPL get any additional European places for next season?
CL winner gets a spot in next seasons champions league - both already qualified through the PL so where does that spot go?
EL winner gets a spot in next seasons Champions league - if the winners have already qualified through the PL does it go to the runners up if not where does it go?
Winners mean that the places will go to another Nation - Dont know which one or how it works, dont worry it wont be wasted on Scotland
Our Champions League places next year will likely be
Man City | Liverpool | Spurs | Chelsea PLUS Arsenal if they win the Europa League
Europa League places will go to
Arsenal (If they lose the Final because they're 5th already) | Manchester United | Wolves OR Watford (Depending if the latter win the FA Cup)1 -
- The only pity is that there are so few Englishmen in the English teams. What it does show of course is how many foreign players and managers have adapted to the physically demanding aspects of the English game. Indications of good scouting and signing decisions as well as the huge salaries available to attract players and managers from all across the world
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doesn't the fa cup spot go to the runners up if the winners have already qualified? meaning Watford have Europe regardlessForeverAddickted said:
Nope, each Nation gets a maximum of seven spots in Europe each seasoncafcdave123 said:i think for rare things like this it should be looked at as as simple as it is, four English teams making the finals of the two biggest cups in Europe is bloody impressive.
on a side note, will the EPL get any additional European places for next season?
CL winner gets a spot in next seasons champions league - both already qualified through the PL so where does that spot go?
EL winner gets a spot in next seasons Champions league - if the winners have already qualified through the PL does it go to the runners up if not where does it go?
Winners mean that the places will go to another Nation - Dont know which one or how it works, dont worry it wont be wasted on Scotland
Our Champions League places next year will likely be
Man City | Liverpool | Spurs | Chelsea PLUS Arsenal if they win the Europa League
Europa League places will go to
Arsenal (If they lose the Final because they're 5th already) | Manchester United | Wolves OR Watford (Depending if the latter win the FA Cup)0 -
Nah that got scrapped a few years agocafcdave123 said:
doesn't the fa cup spot go to the runners up if the winners have already qualified? meaning Watford have Europe regardlessForeverAddickted said:
Nope, each Nation gets a maximum of seven spots in Europe each seasoncafcdave123 said:i think for rare things like this it should be looked at as as simple as it is, four English teams making the finals of the two biggest cups in Europe is bloody impressive.
on a side note, will the EPL get any additional European places for next season?
CL winner gets a spot in next seasons champions league - both already qualified through the PL so where does that spot go?
EL winner gets a spot in next seasons Champions league - if the winners have already qualified through the PL does it go to the runners up if not where does it go?
Winners mean that the places will go to another Nation - Dont know which one or how it works, dont worry it wont be wasted on Scotland
Our Champions League places next year will likely be
Man City | Liverpool | Spurs | Chelsea PLUS Arsenal if they win the Europa League
Europa League places will go to
Arsenal (If they lose the Final because they're 5th already) | Manchester United | Wolves OR Watford (Depending if the latter win the FA Cup)0 -
Nope, if City win the cup Wolves are in the Europa League.cafcdave123 said:
doesn't the fa cup spot go to the runners up if the winners have already qualified? meaning Watford have Europe regardlessForeverAddickted said:
Nope, each Nation gets a maximum of seven spots in Europe each seasoncafcdave123 said:i think for rare things like this it should be looked at as as simple as it is, four English teams making the finals of the two biggest cups in Europe is bloody impressive.
on a side note, will the EPL get any additional European places for next season?
CL winner gets a spot in next seasons champions league - both already qualified through the PL so where does that spot go?
EL winner gets a spot in next seasons Champions league - if the winners have already qualified through the PL does it go to the runners up if not where does it go?
Winners mean that the places will go to another Nation - Dont know which one or how it works, dont worry it wont be wasted on Scotland
Our Champions League places next year will likely be
Man City | Liverpool | Spurs | Chelsea PLUS Arsenal if they win the Europa League
Europa League places will go to
Arsenal (If they lose the Final because they're 5th already) | Manchester United | Wolves OR Watford (Depending if the latter win the FA Cup)0 -
was it after the embarrassment of having wanky wanky wanky millwall in Europe?ForeverAddickted said:
Nah that got scrapped a few years agocafcdave123 said:
doesn't the fa cup spot go to the runners up if the winners have already qualified? meaning Watford have Europe regardlessForeverAddickted said:
Nope, each Nation gets a maximum of seven spots in Europe each seasoncafcdave123 said:i think for rare things like this it should be looked at as as simple as it is, four English teams making the finals of the two biggest cups in Europe is bloody impressive.
on a side note, will the EPL get any additional European places for next season?
CL winner gets a spot in next seasons champions league - both already qualified through the PL so where does that spot go?
EL winner gets a spot in next seasons Champions league - if the winners have already qualified through the PL does it go to the runners up if not where does it go?
Winners mean that the places will go to another Nation - Dont know which one or how it works, dont worry it wont be wasted on Scotland
Our Champions League places next year will likely be
Man City | Liverpool | Spurs | Chelsea PLUS Arsenal if they win the Europa League
Europa League places will go to
Arsenal (If they lose the Final because they're 5th already) | Manchester United | Wolves OR Watford (Depending if the latter win the FA Cup)4 -
It would be great for English football if Arsenal and Chelsea produced good gone grown players for England. Its slowly getting better.
Spurs, United, Liverpool and City are already doing it. If they all produced 1 first team, star player, every five years that would be 12 world class players for England at any time. But I can't remember the last 2 that came from Chelsea or Arsenal's academy. Terry and Wiltshire? Yes there are potential ones like Hudson-Odi but they still need to kick on.
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Nah was from the 2015/16 seasoncafcdave123 said:
was it after the embarrassment of having wanky wanky wanky millwall in Europe?ForeverAddickted said:
Nah that got scrapped a few years agocafcdave123 said:
doesn't the fa cup spot go to the runners up if the winners have already qualified? meaning Watford have Europe regardlessForeverAddickted said:
Nope, each Nation gets a maximum of seven spots in Europe each seasoncafcdave123 said:i think for rare things like this it should be looked at as as simple as it is, four English teams making the finals of the two biggest cups in Europe is bloody impressive.
on a side note, will the EPL get any additional European places for next season?
CL winner gets a spot in next seasons champions league - both already qualified through the PL so where does that spot go?
EL winner gets a spot in next seasons Champions league - if the winners have already qualified through the PL does it go to the runners up if not where does it go?
Winners mean that the places will go to another Nation - Dont know which one or how it works, dont worry it wont be wasted on Scotland
Our Champions League places next year will likely be
Man City | Liverpool | Spurs | Chelsea PLUS Arsenal if they win the Europa League
Europa League places will go to
Arsenal (If they lose the Final because they're 5th already) | Manchester United | Wolves OR Watford (Depending if the latter win the FA Cup)
Seems that UEFA werent happy with Runners-Up being able to qualify for Europe so added the rule that runners up werent allowed
Yet funnily allow 2nd place into the Champions League and potentially 7th into Europe!!...0 -
Loftus-Cheek?Cafc43v3r said:It would be great for English football if Arsenal and Chelsea produced good gone grown players for England. Its slowly getting better.
Spurs, United, Liverpool and City are already doing it. If they all produced 1 first team, star player, every five years that would be 12 world class players for England at any time. But I can't remember the last 2 that came from Chelsea or Arsenal's academy. Terry and Wiltshire? Yes there are potential ones like Hudson-Odi but they still need to kick on.
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The Liverpool teams who won the European cups in the late seventies and early eighties were hardly overrun with English players were they? Full of Jocks, Paddys and Taffs.0
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Was a dire period for the national team around then.Riviera said:The Liverpool teams who won the European cups in the late seventies and early eighties were hardly overrun with English players were they? Full of Jocks, Paddys and Taffs.0 -
I think it’s a remarkable achievement that all four teams are from the EPL.
Do I care how many Johnny foreigners are in the sides?
Erm, d’er, they’ll all be wearing EPL shirts so it matters not where they’re from.
Will I watch them both?
Erm, d’er, it’s football, of course I will.
LLLBH.2 -
For the avoidance of doubt I was coming at this from terms of impact on the national game and leagues below the top flight rather than a frothing rant about the number of "Carlos Kickaballs" coming over and nicking our squad numbers in case that's been implied :-)KBslittlesis said:I think it’s a remarkable achievement that all four teams are from the EPL.
Do I care how many Johnny foreigners are in the sides?
Erm, d’er, they’ll all be wearing EPL shirts so it matters not where they’re from.
Will I watch them both?
Erm, d’er, it’s football, of course I will.
LLLBH.
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I can just imagine the look on Platini's face as the 4 English clubs won their semi finals
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Arsenal and Chelsea only getting 6,000 tickets each in a 70,000+ stadium is poor.0
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alright Danny, no need for the doorstep interview pleading ignorance, you've made your views very clearRodneyCharltonTrotta said:
For the avoidance of doubt I was coming at this from terms of impact on the national game and leagues below the top flight rather than a frothing rant about the number of "Carlos Kickaballs" coming over and nicking our squad numbers in case that's been implied :-)KBslittlesis said:I think it’s a remarkable achievement that all four teams are from the EPL.
Do I care how many Johnny foreigners are in the sides?
Erm, d’er, they’ll all be wearing EPL shirts so it matters not where they’re from.
Will I watch them both?
Erm, d’er, it’s football, of course I will.
LLLBH.2 -
If he ever starts starting for Chelsea regularly, in the prem or champions league, yes. Until then no.cafcdave123 said:
Loftus-Cheek?Cafc43v3r said:It would be great for English football if Arsenal and Chelsea produced good gone grown players for England. Its slowly getting better.
Spurs, United, Liverpool and City are already doing it. If they all produced 1 first team, star player, every five years that would be 12 world class players for England at any time. But I can't remember the last 2 that came from Chelsea or Arsenal's academy. Terry and Wiltshire? Yes there are potential ones like Hudson-Odi but they still need to kick on.0 -
I do agree with that though the signs are that Chelsea are using him more and more - since the beginning of March he has appeared in 15 matches for them and has played some part for them in the PL in 23 games.Cafc43v3r said:
If he ever starts starting for Chelsea regularly, in the prem or champions league, yes. Until then no.cafcdave123 said:
Loftus-Cheek?Cafc43v3r said:It would be great for English football if Arsenal and Chelsea produced good gone grown players for England. Its slowly getting better.
Spurs, United, Liverpool and City are already doing it. If they all produced 1 first team, star player, every five years that would be 12 world class players for England at any time. But I can't remember the last 2 that came from Chelsea or Arsenal's academy. Terry and Wiltshire? Yes there are potential ones like Hudson-Odi but they still need to kick on.
He wouldn't commit yesterday re signing a new contract and it may be that he will be off. But no one could argue that Chelsea didn't "produce" him even if that were to be the case.1 -
Arsenal could potentially have 3 good young English attacking players in their side in a couple of years. Smith-Rowe, Nketiah and Nelson - the latter of which has had a decent season at Hoffenheim. Well away from the Sancho shadow.1
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that's also because his agent will be saying that if Chelsea can't sign anyone he can hold them to ransomeAddick Addict said:
I do agree with that though the signs are that Chelsea are using him more and more - since the beginning of March he has appeared in 15 matches for them and has played some part for them in the PL in 23 games.Cafc43v3r said:
If he ever starts starting for Chelsea regularly, in the prem or champions league, yes. Until then no.cafcdave123 said:
Loftus-Cheek?Cafc43v3r said:It would be great for English football if Arsenal and Chelsea produced good gone grown players for England. Its slowly getting better.
Spurs, United, Liverpool and City are already doing it. If they all produced 1 first team, star player, every five years that would be 12 world class players for England at any time. But I can't remember the last 2 that came from Chelsea or Arsenal's academy. Terry and Wiltshire? Yes there are potential ones like Hudson-Odi but they still need to kick on.
He wouldn't commit yesterday re signing a new contract and it may be that he will be off. But no one could argue that Chelsea didn't "produce" him even if that were to be the case.2 - Sponsored links:
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What is this "English football" you're referencing?RodneyCharltonTrotta said:So 4 English clubs make up the 2 major European club competition finals.
However few English players will feature and no English managers before the media start the inevitable self congratulatory OTT wank circle.
Arguably it's a good thing in that the top players from the world come to our league therefore raising the bar and meaning English players learn from their teammates and managers and up their game to feature in teams.
Likewise the English managers will need to adapt and overcome if they are to succeed alongside their foreign counterparts.
Also making the EPL the go to league brings the money that theoretically trickles doen through our leagues as far as grass roots level.
Perhaps even in tenuous happy clappy view it also brings diversity of cultures etc to the forefront and role models of English youngsters are from further afield in a time where the country is going through a period of introspective navel gazing.
But is it really healthy in the long run for the English game. If English managers aren't getting the top jobs and youngsters are perhaps not getting the top flight experience could it be damaging?
This debate has gone on for years but just thought it relevant as whilst it's 4 English clubs they are very English in terms of managers who've masterminded the success, the players who have delivered it and in all cases bar Levy the money men owners who have funded it.
I'd like to think it brings the benefits and raises the standards all round like when Wenger turned up with his insistence on dental care and the likes of Zola rocked up with healthy diets and teetotalism before revolutionising the English game a quarter of a century ago.
But difficult to know whether it improves or stunts the development of the English game overall.
If you mean English clubs, then you have to acknowledge that there hasn't been a better performance by English clubs in European competition, ever. England has supplied the two best-performing teams that qualified for the Champions League and the two best-performing teams that didn't. All four European Final berths will be English teams and there will be more English players than those of any other nation.
If you mean the England football team, then you have to acknowledge that the team has never been better since before the Premier League started. We reached the World Cup semi-final in the first time in the lifetime of almost all of the players.
If you mean English managers, you have to acknowledge that, while a lot of teams chop and change foreign managers, the two longest-serving Premier League managers are English. As well as the six longest-serving Championship managers. And the four longest-serving League One managers. And the four longest-serving League Two managers. If it were true that foreign managers were always better, wouldn't the longest-serving managers in each league be foreign? And, if not, then things can't be so bleak for English manager.
And, of course, you have to acknowledge that the success of the England team has a lot to do with the manager who is, after all, English.
In England, we have most of the biggest, best, richest football teams in the world. The Premier League has a significant number of English players, many of whom are contributing to a brilliantly exciting, winning England team, with huge prospects. And there are many successful managers in each division of the football pyramid.
So, what's the "English football" you're referencing - ie, the bit that isn't "healthy"?3 -
Bit of a stretch with some of those names. When was the last time Lallana and Ox played?Addick Addict said:
You can add Maitland-Niles, Barkley, Loftus-Cheek, Winks, Dier, Lallana and Oxlaide-Chamberlain to that list and then City's Walker, Stones, Sterling, Delph and Foden and that's 20 English players from out top 5 sides. All of them bar Maitland-Niles and Foden are full England internationals.Laddick01 said:Few English players?
TAA, Gomez, Milner, Henderson, Rose, Trippier, Alli and Kane
and that’s just off the top of my head!0 -
Oxlade-Chamberlain is just back from a long term injury
Lallana was last involved in March - Be surprised if he's at Liverpool next season0 -
True but only because they've been injured. Ox, especially, would have played a significant part for Liverpool this season but for that.The Red Robin said:
Bit of a stretch with some of those names. When was the last time Lallana and Ox played?Addick Addict said:
You can add Maitland-Niles, Barkley, Loftus-Cheek, Winks, Dier, Lallana and Oxlaide-Chamberlain to that list and then City's Walker, Stones, Sterling, Delph and Foden and that's 20 English players from out top 5 sides. All of them bar Maitland-Niles and Foden are full England internationals.Laddick01 said:Few English players?
TAA, Gomez, Milner, Henderson, Rose, Trippier, Alli and Kane
and that’s just off the top of my head!
I also forgot about Hudson-Odoi albeit another bit part player but, of we're talking about the Europa League, then 10 appearances and 4 goals is a decent "bit part".0 -
True but you can't really reference them when you're talking about English players playing the later stages of a Champion's League campaign and final.Addick Addict said:
True but only because they've been injured. Ox, especially, would have played a significant part for Liverpool this season but for that.The Red Robin said:
Bit of a stretch with some of those names. When was the last time Lallana and Ox played?Addick Addict said:
You can add Maitland-Niles, Barkley, Loftus-Cheek, Winks, Dier, Lallana and Oxlaide-Chamberlain to that list and then City's Walker, Stones, Sterling, Delph and Foden and that's 20 English players from out top 5 sides. All of them bar Maitland-Niles and Foden are full England internationals.Laddick01 said:Few English players?
TAA, Gomez, Milner, Henderson, Rose, Trippier, Alli and Kane
and that’s just off the top of my head!
I also forgot about Hudson-Odoi albeit another bit part player but, of we're talking about the Europa League, then 10 appearances and 4 goals is a decent "bit part".
Liverpool v Barca:
Alexander-Arnold
Henderson
Milner
Sturridge (sub, 90th minute)
Gomez (sub, 85th minute)
Ajax v Spurs
Trippier
Rose
Dele
So of a possible 22, 6 Englishman started.0 -
Kane would obviously have been a starter, probably Winks tooThe Red Robin said:
True but you can't really reference them when you're talking about English players playing the later stages of a Champion's League campaign and final.Addick Addict said:
True but only because they've been injured. Ox, especially, would have played a significant part for Liverpool this season but for that.The Red Robin said:
Bit of a stretch with some of those names. When was the last time Lallana and Ox played?Addick Addict said:
You can add Maitland-Niles, Barkley, Loftus-Cheek, Winks, Dier, Lallana and Oxlaide-Chamberlain to that list and then City's Walker, Stones, Sterling, Delph and Foden and that's 20 English players from out top 5 sides. All of them bar Maitland-Niles and Foden are full England internationals.Laddick01 said:Few English players?
TAA, Gomez, Milner, Henderson, Rose, Trippier, Alli and Kane
and that’s just off the top of my head!
I also forgot about Hudson-Odoi albeit another bit part player but, of we're talking about the Europa League, then 10 appearances and 4 goals is a decent "bit part".
Liverpool v Barca:
Alexander-Arnold
Henderson
Milner
Sturridge (sub, 90th minute)
Gomez (sub, 85th minute)
Ajax v Spurs
Trippier
Rose
Dele
So of a possible 22, 6 Englishman started.
I assume Ox wasn't in Liverpool's CL squad so wouldn't be able to feature now0 -
The first time Liverpool won the European cup the team (and manager and all back room staff)was entirely British. 9 English except Jones (Welsh) and Heighway (Irish). Of the 9 English, 4 were scousers. The second time I think it was 8 English. Must admit I can't remember the exact numbers for 3rd and 4th times.Riviera said:The Liverpool teams who won the European cups in the late seventies and early eighties were hardly overrun with English players were they? Full of Jocks, Paddys and Taffs.0 -
The success of English clubs in Europe this year is more the symbolic triumph of money than anything else.
Granted, the romantic in me wanted to see Ajax go all the way and upset the big club narrative, so much so that I might be being a bit callous, but... Money buys success, it seems.
*sheds single tear*3 -
Football is an international game these days. You simply aren't going to get a side featuring 9-10 players from it's home country in the latter stages of the champions league any more.
In the last 2 finals, Real Madrid had 3 spaniards starting. Ramos, Carvajal and Isco.
The year before that is was just Ramos and Carvajal.
Most i can see in a recent final was Bayern in 2012 with 8 Germans. But as we all know they just buy any good German player.
When Mourinho's Inter won it in 2011, there wasn't a single Italian in the side!
The great Barcelona side managed by Guardiola with a ton of La Masia products is probably the last time we'll see a side with so many home grown players winning it.0
