"English" football success this week

ForeverAddickted said:

cafcdave123 said:

i think for rare things like this it should be looked at as as simple as it is, four English teams making the finals of the two biggest cups in Europe is bloody impressive.

on a side note, will the EPL get any additional European places for next season? 

CL winner gets a spot in next seasons champions league - both already qualified through the PL so where does that spot go?

EL winner gets a spot in next seasons Champions league - if the winners have already qualified through the PL does it go to the runners up if not where does it go? 

Nope, each Nation gets a maximum of seven spots in Europe each season

Winners mean that the places will go to another Nation - Dont know which one or how it works, dont worry it wont be wasted on Scotland

Our Champions League places next year will likely be
Man City | Liverpool | Spurs | Chelsea PLUS Arsenal if they win the Europa League

Europa League places will go to
Arsenal (If they lose the Final because they're 5th already) | Manchester United | Wolves OR Watford (Depending if the latter win the FA Cup)

doesn't the fa cup spot go to the runners up if the winners have already qualified? meaning Watford have Europe regardless

It would be great for English football if Arsenal and Chelsea produced good gone grown players for England. Its slowly getting better. 

Spurs, United, Liverpool and City are already doing it. If they all produced 1 first team, star player, every five years that would be 12 world class players for England at any time. But I can't remember the last 2 that came from Chelsea or Arsenal's academy.  Terry and Wiltshire? Yes there are potential ones like Hudson-Odi but they still need to kick on. 

Cafc43v3r said:

It would be great for English football if Arsenal and Chelsea produced good gone grown players for England. Its slowly getting better. 

Spurs, United, Liverpool and City are already doing it. If they all produced 1 first team, star player, every five years that would be 12 world class players for England at any time. But I can't remember the last 2 that came from Chelsea or Arsenal's academy.  Terry and Wiltshire? Yes there are potential ones like Hudson-Odi but they still need to kick on. 

Loftus-Cheek? 

Arsenal and Chelsea only getting 6,000 tickets each in a 70,000+ stadium is poor.

cafcdave123 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

It would be great for English football if Arsenal and Chelsea produced good gone grown players for England. Its slowly getting better. 

Spurs, United, Liverpool and City are already doing it. If they all produced 1 first team, star player, every five years that would be 12 world class players for England at any time. But I can't remember the last 2 that came from Chelsea or Arsenal's academy.  Terry and Wiltshire? Yes there are potential ones like Hudson-Odi but they still need to kick on. 

Loftus-Cheek? 

If he ever starts starting for Chelsea regularly, in the prem or champions league, yes. Until then no. 

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

So 4 English clubs make up the 2 major European club competition finals.

However few English players will feature and no English managers before the media start the inevitable self congratulatory OTT wank circle.

Arguably it's a good thing in that the top players from the world come to our league therefore raising the bar and meaning English players learn from their teammates and managers and up their game to feature in teams.

Likewise the English managers will need to adapt and overcome if they are to succeed alongside their foreign counterparts.

Also making the EPL the go to league brings the money that theoretically trickles doen through our leagues as far as grass roots level.

Perhaps even in tenuous happy clappy view it also brings diversity of cultures etc to the forefront and role models of English  youngsters are from further afield in a time where the country is going through a period of introspective navel gazing.

But is it really healthy in the long run for the English game. If English managers aren't getting the top jobs and youngsters are perhaps not getting the top flight experience could it be damaging?

 This debate has gone on for years but just thought it relevant as whilst it's 4 English clubs they are very English in terms of managers who've masterminded the success, the players who have delivered it and in all cases bar Levy the money men owners who have funded it.

I'd like to think it brings the benefits and raises the standards all round like when Wenger turned up with his insistence on dental care and the likes of Zola rocked up with healthy diets and teetotalism before revolutionising the English game a quarter of a century ago.

But difficult to know whether it improves or stunts the development of the English game overall.

What is this "English football" you're referencing?  

If you mean English clubs, then you have to acknowledge that there hasn't been a better performance by English clubs in European competition, ever.  England has supplied the two best-performing teams that qualified for the Champions League and the two best-performing teams that didn't.  All four European Final berths will be English teams and there will be more English players than those of any other nation.  

If you mean the England football team, then you have to acknowledge that the team has never been better since before the Premier League started.  We reached the World Cup semi-final in the first time in the lifetime of almost all of the players. 

If you mean English managers, you have to acknowledge that, while a lot of teams chop and change foreign managers, the two longest-serving Premier League managers are English.  As well as the six longest-serving Championship managers. And the four longest-serving League One managers.  And the four longest-serving League Two managers.  If it were true that foreign managers were always better, wouldn't the longest-serving managers in each league be foreign? And, if not, then things can't be so bleak for English manager.  

And, of course, you have to acknowledge that the success of the England team has a lot to do with the manager who is, after all, English.  

In England, we have most of the biggest, best, richest football teams in the world.  The Premier League has a significant number of English players, many of whom are contributing to a brilliantly exciting, winning England team, with huge prospects.  And there are many successful managers in each division of the football pyramid.  

So, what's the "English football" you're referencing - ie, the bit that isn't "healthy"? 

Addick Addict said:

The Red Robin said:

Addick Addict said:

Laddick01 said:

Few English players?

TAA, Gomez, Milner, Henderson, Rose, Trippier, Alli and Kane

and that’s just off the top of my head!

You can add Maitland-Niles, Barkley, Loftus-Cheek, Winks, Dier, Lallana and Oxlaide-Chamberlain to that list and then City's Walker, Stones, Sterling, Delph and Foden and that's 20 English players from out top 5 sides. All of them bar Maitland-Niles and Foden are full England internationals.

Bit of a stretch with some of those names. When was the last time Lallana and Ox played?

True but only because they've been injured. Ox, especially, would have played a significant part for Liverpool this season but for that.

I also forgot about Hudson-Odoi albeit another bit part player but, of we're talking about the Europa League, then 10 appearances and 4 goals is a decent "bit part". 

True but you can't really reference them when you're talking about English players playing the later stages of a Champion's League campaign and final.

Liverpool v Barca:

Alexander-Arnold
Henderson
Milner
Sturridge (sub, 90th minute)
Gomez (sub, 85th minute)

Ajax v Spurs

Trippier
Rose
Dele


So of a possible 22, 6 Englishman started.

Riviera said:

The Liverpool teams who won the European cups in the late seventies and early eighties were hardly overrun with English players were they? Full of Jocks, Paddys and Taffs. 

The first time Liverpool won the European cup the team (and manager and all back room staff)was entirely British. 9 English except Jones (Welsh) and Heighway (Irish). Of the 9 English, 4 were scousers. The second time I think it was 8 English. Must admit I can't remember the exact numbers for 3rd and 4th times. 

Football is an international game these days. You simply aren't going to get a side featuring 9-10 players from it's home country in the latter stages of the champions league any more.

In the last 2 finals, Real Madrid had 3 spaniards starting. Ramos, Carvajal and Isco.
The year before that is was just Ramos and Carvajal.

Most i can see in a recent final was Bayern in 2012 with 8 Germans. But as we all know they just buy any good German player.

When Mourinho's Inter won it in 2011, there wasn't a single Italian in the side!

The great Barcelona side managed by Guardiola with a ton of La Masia products is probably the last time we'll see a side with so many home grown players winning it.