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How big a ground do you need to be able to compete in the PL
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You literally need to meet the legal requirements for your stadium and that’s about it.
If Sheikh Mansouur or Roman Abramovich had bought Bournemouth, then they would have been a top 4 side by now.
Viewers in Pakistan, India, China etc is more fruitful and meaningful to PL club finances than locals who actually put their weekends into clubs. It’s a real shame.1 -
I'm waiting for the day when you say something sensible. Sorry.letthegoodtimesroll said:
The day the ground expansion plans halted was probably the turning pointSouthWest_Addicks said:
Agreed, making up the numbers isn’t a success.letthegoodtimesroll said:
A temporary stay in the PL isn’t really a success. We didn’t even manage to qualify for Europe or reach a cup final and like a lot of other small ‘treading water’ clubs in that league what money the club made was spent trying, unsuccessfully, to keep us up. We haven’t been back since, yet.blackpool72 said:With decent owners 27 111 seemed to have a fair amount of success in the not to distant past.0 -
So is it your view we didn’t need to keep getting bigger and generating more and more money to pay for the increasingly expensive players we had to attract and sign and keep in order to stay in the PL ? If only we’d known that then, we might not have lost Scott Parker or the likes of Danny MurphyCovered End said:
I'm waiting for the day when you say something sensible. Sorry.letthegoodtimesroll said:
The day the ground expansion plans halted was probably the turning pointSouthWest_Addicks said:
Agreed, making up the numbers isn’t a success.letthegoodtimesroll said:
A temporary stay in the PL isn’t really a success. We didn’t even manage to qualify for Europe or reach a cup final and like a lot of other small ‘treading water’ clubs in that league what money the club made was spent trying, unsuccessfully, to keep us up. We haven’t been back since, yet.blackpool72 said:With decent owners 27 111 seemed to have a fair amount of success in the not to distant past.0 -
Forest have put in plans to increase capacity to 380000 -
The vast majority of Premier Club revenue comes from TV, not gate revenue and the day the ground expansion was halted did not signal a downturn in Charlton's fortunes.letthegoodtimesroll said:
So is it your view we didn’t need to keep getting bigger and generating more and more money to pay for the increasingly expensive players we had to attract and sign and keep in order to stay in the PL ? If only we’d known that then, we might not have lost Scott Parker or the likes of Danny MurphyCovered End said:
I'm waiting for the day when you say something sensible. Sorry.letthegoodtimesroll said:
The day the ground expansion plans halted was probably the turning pointSouthWest_Addicks said:
Agreed, making up the numbers isn’t a success.letthegoodtimesroll said:
A temporary stay in the PL isn’t really a success. We didn’t even manage to qualify for Europe or reach a cup final and like a lot of other small ‘treading water’ clubs in that league what money the club made was spent trying, unsuccessfully, to keep us up. We haven’t been back since, yet.blackpool72 said:With decent owners 27 111 seemed to have a fair amount of success in the not to distant past.
I thought every Charlton fan new it was Parker leaving and then Curbs.1 -
Doesn’t matter about the size of the ground. Just get the Premier League to buy your club and you’re sorted.1
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The turning point was Parker leaving but....PragueAddick said:
I totally disagree. The turning point was when we had to sell Parker under duress.letthegoodtimesroll said:
The target every year was to get to 40 points and stay up; and a ‘PL team is going to win the cup so why shouldn’t it be us’...and we all know how that last strategy worked outSouthWest_Addicks said:
Agreed, making up the numbers isn’t a success.letthegoodtimesroll said:
A temporary stay in the PL isn’t really a success. We didn’t even manage to qualify for Europe or reach a cup final and like a lot of other small ‘treading water’ clubs in that league what money the club made was spent trying, unsuccessfully, to keep us up. We haven’t been back since, yet.blackpool72 said:With decent owners 27 111 seemed to have a fair amount of success in the not to distant past.
it was great being in the PL but let’s not kid ourselves, we were always too small to do anything but make up the numbers for a few years until the inevitable relegation happened. The day the ground expansion plans halted was probably the turning point
That was the first season of Roman's Chelsea. Man City where a yoyo club, Spurs were still in the duldrums. Arsenal played at Highbury. Everton, Leicester and the like weren't a million miles away from us in terms of finances.
The main reason why we were relegated, and have never returned, isn't the size of the Valley. Its we have never had an owner that can, or will, splash the cash that was needed.
So I stand by my original answer that C30k, or even less, is viable with external investment. If you don't want to invest, or even take boat loads of money out, like the glaziers you need close to 80k and an official noodle partner.
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27,111 would be suitable.0
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Without any other costs, to compete, rather than just survive, you need a squad of 20 or so players who would want an average of £100k a week. That alone is your tv money gone. A rich owner aside, how will a small capacity ground pay for everything else ? You might not need to charge fans a lot to get in but you will need a lot of them to make real money on the the merchandise and other ancillariesCafc43v3r said:
The turning point was Parker leaving but....PragueAddick said:
I totally disagree. The turning point was when we had to sell Parker under duress.letthegoodtimesroll said:
The target every year was to get to 40 points and stay up; and a ‘PL team is going to win the cup so why shouldn’t it be us’...and we all know how that last strategy worked outSouthWest_Addicks said:
Agreed, making up the numbers isn’t a success.letthegoodtimesroll said:
A temporary stay in the PL isn’t really a success. We didn’t even manage to qualify for Europe or reach a cup final and like a lot of other small ‘treading water’ clubs in that league what money the club made was spent trying, unsuccessfully, to keep us up. We haven’t been back since, yet.blackpool72 said:With decent owners 27 111 seemed to have a fair amount of success in the not to distant past.
it was great being in the PL but let’s not kid ourselves, we were always too small to do anything but make up the numbers for a few years until the inevitable relegation happened. The day the ground expansion plans halted was probably the turning point
That was the first season of Roman's Chelsea. Man City where a yoyo club, Spurs were still in the duldrums. Arsenal played at Highbury. Everton, Leicester and the like weren't a million miles away from us in terms of finances.
The main reason why we were relegated, and have never returned, isn't the size of the Valley. Its we have never had an owner that can, or will, splash the cash that was needed.
So I stand by my original answer that C30k, or even less, is viable with external investment. If you don't want to invest, or even take boat loads of money out, like the glaziers you need close to 80k and an official noodle partner.0 -
An average of 100k a week? What are you suggesting we compete for, a CL spot?letthegoodtimesroll said:
Without any other costs, to compete, rather than just survive, you need a squad of 20 or so players who would want an average of £100k a week. That alone is your tv money gone. A rich owner aside, how will a small capacity ground pay for everything else ? You might not need to charge fans a lot to get in but you will need a lot of them to make real money on the the merchandise and other ancillariesCafc43v3r said:
The turning point was Parker leaving but....PragueAddick said:
I totally disagree. The turning point was when we had to sell Parker under duress.letthegoodtimesroll said:
The target every year was to get to 40 points and stay up; and a ‘PL team is going to win the cup so why shouldn’t it be us’...and we all know how that last strategy worked outSouthWest_Addicks said:
Agreed, making up the numbers isn’t a success.letthegoodtimesroll said:
A temporary stay in the PL isn’t really a success. We didn’t even manage to qualify for Europe or reach a cup final and like a lot of other small ‘treading water’ clubs in that league what money the club made was spent trying, unsuccessfully, to keep us up. We haven’t been back since, yet.blackpool72 said:With decent owners 27 111 seemed to have a fair amount of success in the not to distant past.
it was great being in the PL but let’s not kid ourselves, we were always too small to do anything but make up the numbers for a few years until the inevitable relegation happened. The day the ground expansion plans halted was probably the turning point
That was the first season of Roman's Chelsea. Man City where a yoyo club, Spurs were still in the duldrums. Arsenal played at Highbury. Everton, Leicester and the like weren't a million miles away from us in terms of finances.
The main reason why we were relegated, and have never returned, isn't the size of the Valley. Its we have never had an owner that can, or will, splash the cash that was needed.
So I stand by my original answer that C30k, or even less, is viable with external investment. If you don't want to invest, or even take boat loads of money out, like the glaziers you need close to 80k and an official noodle partner.1 - Sponsored links:
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Europe might have relegated us sooner. Ipswich went down after struggling to cope with the extra matches, while Burnley this season clearly couldn’t cope with both either.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
.............which for a club of our size was an incredible success.letthegoodtimesroll said:
The target every year was to get to 40 points and stay up; and a ‘PL team is going to win the cup so why shouldn’t it be us’...and we all know how that last strategy worked outSouthWest_Addicks said:
Agreed, making up the numbers isn’t a success.letthegoodtimesroll said:
A temporary stay in the PL isn’t really a success. We didn’t even manage to qualify for Europe or reach a cup final and like a lot of other small ‘treading water’ clubs in that league what money the club made was spent trying, unsuccessfully, to keep us up. We haven’t been back since, yet.blackpool72 said:With decent owners 27 111 seemed to have a fair amount of success in the not to distant past.
it was great being in the PL but let’s not kid ourselves, we were always too small to do anything but make up the numbers for a few years until the inevitable relegation happened. The day the ground expansion plans halted was probably the turning point
However i disagree we just made up the numbers. If we hadn't sold Parker we'd likely have got into Europe that season, then who knows what could've happened from there. Might have only been for 1 season, but we might have grown, got a 40k stadium and been perennial 7-10th placers. Who knows.0 -
They have been planning to build a new ground , though this has progressed very slowly, in reality it’s a massive risk to spend a large amount on a new stadiumBrendan_O_Connell said:No regulations about ground capacity is there?
Bournemouth's ground holds about 11,000 and they have no plans to expand.
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Do you seriously think the likes of Bournemouth and Watford have 20 players on 100k a week?letthegoodtimesroll said:
Without any other costs, to compete, rather than just survive, you need a squad of 20 or so players who would want an average of £100k a week. That alone is your tv money gone. A rich owner aside, how will a small capacity ground pay for everything else ? You might not need to charge fans a lot to get in but you will need a lot of them to make real money on the the merchandise and other ancillariesCafc43v3r said:
The turning point was Parker leaving but....PragueAddick said:
I totally disagree. The turning point was when we had to sell Parker under duress.letthegoodtimesroll said:
The target every year was to get to 40 points and stay up; and a ‘PL team is going to win the cup so why shouldn’t it be us’...and we all know how that last strategy worked outSouthWest_Addicks said:
Agreed, making up the numbers isn’t a success.letthegoodtimesroll said:
A temporary stay in the PL isn’t really a success. We didn’t even manage to qualify for Europe or reach a cup final and like a lot of other small ‘treading water’ clubs in that league what money the club made was spent trying, unsuccessfully, to keep us up. We haven’t been back since, yet.blackpool72 said:With decent owners 27 111 seemed to have a fair amount of success in the not to distant past.
it was great being in the PL but let’s not kid ourselves, we were always too small to do anything but make up the numbers for a few years until the inevitable relegation happened. The day the ground expansion plans halted was probably the turning point
That was the first season of Roman's Chelsea. Man City where a yoyo club, Spurs were still in the duldrums. Arsenal played at Highbury. Everton, Leicester and the like weren't a million miles away from us in terms of finances.
The main reason why we were relegated, and have never returned, isn't the size of the Valley. Its we have never had an owner that can, or will, splash the cash that was needed.
So I stand by my original answer that C30k, or even less, is viable with external investment. If you don't want to invest, or even take boat loads of money out, like the glaziers you need close to 80k and an official noodle partner.
Are we talking about the same thing? The thread title says compete in the premier league, but you seem to be talking about competing for the title.0 -
If you are not competing for a European spot in the PL then you are potential relegation fodderChris_from_Sidcup said:
Do you seriously think the likes of Bournemouth and Watford have 20 players on 100k a week?letthegoodtimesroll said:
Without any other costs, to compete, rather than just survive, you need a squad of 20 or so players who would want an average of £100k a week. That alone is your tv money gone. A rich owner aside, how will a small capacity ground pay for everything else ? You might not need to charge fans a lot to get in but you will need a lot of them to make real money on the the merchandise and other ancillariesCafc43v3r said:
The turning point was Parker leaving but....PragueAddick said:
I totally disagree. The turning point was when we had to sell Parker under duress.letthegoodtimesroll said:
The target every year was to get to 40 points and stay up; and a ‘PL team is going to win the cup so why shouldn’t it be us’...and we all know how that last strategy worked outSouthWest_Addicks said:
Agreed, making up the numbers isn’t a success.letthegoodtimesroll said:
A temporary stay in the PL isn’t really a success. We didn’t even manage to qualify for Europe or reach a cup final and like a lot of other small ‘treading water’ clubs in that league what money the club made was spent trying, unsuccessfully, to keep us up. We haven’t been back since, yet.blackpool72 said:With decent owners 27 111 seemed to have a fair amount of success in the not to distant past.
it was great being in the PL but let’s not kid ourselves, we were always too small to do anything but make up the numbers for a few years until the inevitable relegation happened. The day the ground expansion plans halted was probably the turning point
That was the first season of Roman's Chelsea. Man City where a yoyo club, Spurs were still in the duldrums. Arsenal played at Highbury. Everton, Leicester and the like weren't a million miles away from us in terms of finances.
The main reason why we were relegated, and have never returned, isn't the size of the Valley. Its we have never had an owner that can, or will, splash the cash that was needed.
So I stand by my original answer that C30k, or even less, is viable with external investment. If you don't want to invest, or even take boat loads of money out, like the glaziers you need close to 80k and an official noodle partner.
Are we talking about the same thing? The thread title says compete in the premier league, but you seem to be talking about competing for the title.
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Why does the size of the ground impact the football on the pitch ?
Usain Bolt is no faster or slower in a stadium or in Eltham park south/
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United and Arsenal make over 100m over a season on matchday revenue alone. Bournemouth make about 5m.
With TV revenue, Bournemouth can compete in the second tier of the PL, but they will not consistently be able to break into the top six without financial backing that dwarfs those top clubs, and subsequently, significant investment in their ability to make money on match days.0 -
A stadium can probably afford the appearance fee for usain bolt to turn up whereas Eltham park south...1se7 said:Why does the size of the ground impact the football on the pitch ?
Usain Bolt is no faster or slower in a stadium or in Eltham park south/
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The question was about compete. It makes no difference to ability.0
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I read somewhere that when the current TV deal started all Premier League clubs could afford to throw the doors open for free and they'd still be better off financially than under the previous TV deal.
This tells you that size of ground in the Premier League doesn't matter where it previously has done for so many years.
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I think any club needs 30,000 or eventually they are going down. How Bournemouth stays up with 12,000 is some kind of miracle.
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