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A hypothetical England "golden generation" question

2

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  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    This is a really interesting question.

    My original answer was Scholes for Ali or Lingard. Then I thought about a teenage Rooney, then that Gerrard is a much better player than Henderson.

    Beckham's delivery was better than tripper, are any of our current center backs better than Rio, Campbell or Terry. Would you ever pick young or rose over Ashley Cole?

    Can anyone tell me Vardey is better than peak Owen?

    England don't have a holding midfielder as good as Owen Hargreaves. Or even Nicky Butt.

    I saw Gary Neville play right of 3 at the back under Hoddle and El tel and he looked much more comfortable than Walker does there.

    Peak shearer and seaman are outside the scope of the question.

    I think if England had had a manager in the style of Southgate or Hoddle, 2000-2012 I think they would have done better.

    In short, player for player, in the current system I think Kane would be only current player that would be a shoe in.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,843
    Cafc43v3r said:

    This is a really interesting question.

    My original answer was Scholes for Ali or Lingard. Then I thought about a teenage Rooney, then that Gerrard is a much better player than Henderson.

    Beckham's delivery was better than tripper, are any of our current center backs better than Rio, Campbell or Terry. Would you ever pick young or rose over Ashley Cole?

    Can anyone tell me Vardey is better than peak Owen?

    England don't have a holding midfielder as good as Owen Hargreaves. Or even Nicky Butt.

    I saw Gary Neville play right of 3 at the back under Hoddle and El tel and he looked much more comfortable than Walker does there.

    Peak shearer and seaman are outside the scope of the question.

    I think if England had had a manager in the style of Southgate or Hoddle, 2000-2012 I think they would have done better.

    In short, player for player, in the current system I think Kane would be only current player that would be a shoe in.

    Can't disagree with any of that - why the feck didn't we win anything??????

  • AddicksAddict
    AddicksAddict Posts: 15,791
    bobmunro said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    This is a really interesting question.

    My original answer was Scholes for Ali or Lingard. Then I thought about a teenage Rooney, then that Gerrard is a much better player than Henderson.

    Beckham's delivery was better than tripper, are any of our current center backs better than Rio, Campbell or Terry. Would you ever pick young or rose over Ashley Cole?

    Can anyone tell me Vardey is better than peak Owen?

    England don't have a holding midfielder as good as Owen Hargreaves. Or even Nicky Butt.

    I saw Gary Neville play right of 3 at the back under Hoddle and El tel and he looked much more comfortable than Walker does there.

    Peak shearer and seaman are outside the scope of the question.

    I think if England had had a manager in the style of Southgate or Hoddle, 2000-2012 I think they would have done better.

    In short, player for player, in the current system I think Kane would be only current player that would be a shoe in.

    Can't disagree with any of that - why the feck didn't we win anything??????

    Sven? McClaren?
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,318
    bobmunro said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    This is a really interesting question.

    My original answer was Scholes for Ali or Lingard. Then I thought about a teenage Rooney, then that Gerrard is a much better player than Henderson.

    Beckham's delivery was better than tripper, are any of our current center backs better than Rio, Campbell or Terry. Would you ever pick young or rose over Ashley Cole?

    Can anyone tell me Vardey is better than peak Owen?

    England don't have a holding midfielder as good as Owen Hargreaves. Or even Nicky Butt.

    I saw Gary Neville play right of 3 at the back under Hoddle and El tel and he looked much more comfortable than Walker does there.

    Peak shearer and seaman are outside the scope of the question.

    I think if England had had a manager in the style of Southgate or Hoddle, 2000-2012 I think they would have done better.

    In short, player for player, in the current system I think Kane would be only current player that would be a shoe in.

    Can't disagree with any of that - why the feck didn't we win anything??????
    Because we had foreigners who werent interested in delving deep into the issues or we had English coaches who'd worked under those foreign managers (i.e. McClaren) who continued the theme from their predessor

    You have to wonder had Curbishley gotten the job over McClaren the changes might have happened yet we've needed someone who was going to look at the whole picture i.e. U21s | Youngsters outside of the setup | First Team players. Hoddle and now Southgate have done that which is a break from the normal.

    Can only see it continuing provided we dont sack Southgate with a knee jerk decision in the future, even now I wonder if Boothroyd would be the best successor if we did remove Southgate as he's another who is earning his stripes within the National Team rather than a Howe or Dyche type figure - Unfortunately there appears to be a demand for the England Manager to have had club success yet Low (Germany) and Lopetegui (Spain) are proof you dont need it
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,979
    Gerrard is without doubt a better player than Henderson but I honestly think he plays the role that Southgate wants him too perfectly
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    ValleyGary said:

    Gerrard is without doubt a better player than Henderson but I honestly think he plays the role that Southgate wants him too perfectly

    Does he play it better than Owen Hargreaves would :p
  • The Red Robin
    The Red Robin Posts: 26,126
    Chris Powell.
  • cfgs
    cfgs Posts: 11,476
    Paul Scholes never appreciated until he had retired from international football.
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,318
    Just imagine had we stayed with Hoddle...

    Seaman
    Ferdinand | Campbell | Terry
    G.Neville | Gerrard | Scholes | Lampard | A.Cole
    Shearer | Owen
  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,454
    As long as it's the Scholes from earlier in his England career. At the end he went 3 years without a goal and barely any assists in the time.
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  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    ForeverAddickted said:

    Just imagine had we stayed with Hoddle...

    Seaman
    G. Neville| Campbell | Rio
    Beckham | Hardgreaves | A. Cole
    Gerrard | Scholes
    Shearer | Rooney

    Subs inc
    Owen
    J. Cole
    Terry
    Lampard
    Butt
    P. Neville


  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,318
    Cafc43v3r said:

    ForeverAddickted said:

    Just imagine had we stayed with Hoddle...

    Seaman
    G. Neville| Campbell | Rio
    Beckham | Hardgreaves | A. Cole
    Gerrard | Scholes
    Shearer | Rooney

    Subs inc
    Owen
    J. Cole
    Terry
    Lampard
    Butt
    P. Neville
    Hargreaves as well, never forgot how much abuse he always got when he played for England, it was the 2006 World Cup when people finally realised how good a player he actually was
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    ForeverAddickted said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    ForeverAddickted said:

    Just imagine had we stayed with Hoddle...

    Seaman
    G. Neville| Campbell | Rio
    Beckham | Hardgreaves | A. Cole
    Gerrard | Scholes
    Shearer | Rooney

    Subs inc
    Owen
    J. Cole
    Terry
    Lampard
    Butt
    P. Neville
    Hargreaves as well, never forgot how much abuse he always got when he played for England, it was the 2006 World Cup when people finally realised how good a player he actually was
    I changed your team :p
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,827
    The Red Robin said:

    Chris Powell.

    Chris who?!!!
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,827
    edited July 2018
    Unbelievable with some of the names listed that that generation never lived up to its on paper potential.

    Beckham for me always put a shift in for England and stepped up when it mattered.
  • IdleHans
    IdleHans Posts: 10,968
    bobmunro said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    This is a really interesting question.

    My original answer was Scholes for Ali or Lingard. Then I thought about a teenage Rooney, then that Gerrard is a much better player than Henderson.

    Beckham's delivery was better than tripper, are any of our current center backs better than Rio, Campbell or Terry. Would you ever pick young or rose over Ashley Cole?

    Can anyone tell me Vardey is better than peak Owen?

    England don't have a holding midfielder as good as Owen Hargreaves. Or even Nicky Butt.

    I saw Gary Neville play right of 3 at the back under Hoddle and El tel and he looked much more comfortable than Walker does there.

    Peak shearer and seaman are outside the scope of the question.

    I think if England had had a manager in the style of Southgate or Hoddle, 2000-2012 I think they would have done better.

    In short, player for player, in the current system I think Kane would be only current player that would be a shoe in.

    Can't disagree with any of that - why the feck didn't we win anything??????

    Did you see the discussion between Rio, Gerard and Lampard after they were asked that very question? They were pretty honest, said it was all about managers picking the best players not the best team, that there was no real system and the team was a series of cliques based on club lines. They sounded a bit regretful, and were as condemnatory of the managers as I would ever expect them to be. Took some responsibility themselves too though.
    IMO its the FAs fault for picking mercenary crap foreign managers such as Sven and that twat Capello who had no thought for the long term and just picked players at random (SGE) or big names regardless of team (FC).
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,827
    IdleHans said:

    bobmunro said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    This is a really interesting question.

    My original answer was Scholes for Ali or Lingard. Then I thought about a teenage Rooney, then that Gerrard is a much better player than Henderson.

    Beckham's delivery was better than tripper, are any of our current center backs better than Rio, Campbell or Terry. Would you ever pick young or rose over Ashley Cole?

    Can anyone tell me Vardey is better than peak Owen?

    England don't have a holding midfielder as good as Owen Hargreaves. Or even Nicky Butt.

    I saw Gary Neville play right of 3 at the back under Hoddle and El tel and he looked much more comfortable than Walker does there.

    Peak shearer and seaman are outside the scope of the question.

    I think if England had had a manager in the style of Southgate or Hoddle, 2000-2012 I think they would have done better.

    In short, player for player, in the current system I think Kane would be only current player that would be a shoe in.

    Can't disagree with any of that - why the feck didn't we win anything??????

    Did you see the discussion between Rio, Gerard and Lampard after they were asked that very question? They were pretty honest, said it was all about managers picking the best players not the best team, that there was no real system and the team was a series of cliques based on club lines. They sounded a bit regretful, and were as condemnatory of the managers as I would ever expect them to be. Took some responsibility themselves too though.
    IMO its the FAs fault for picking mercenary crap foreign managers such as Sven and that twat Capello who had no thought for the long term and just picked players at random (SGE) or big names regardless of team (FC).
    For this reason I think a manager like Redknap would have got the best out of them. Very marmite but on their level in the mould of Veneables.

    Like Brian Clough before him was not a club tie type of manager or exotic foreign import so did not appeal to the bods in charge.
  • IdleHans
    IdleHans Posts: 10,968
    JessieAddick said:

    AddicksAddict said:

    bobmunro said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    This is a really interesting question.

    My original answer was Scholes for Ali or Lingard. Then I thought about a teenage Rooney, then that Gerrard is a much better player than Henderson.

    Beckham's delivery was better than tripper, are any of our current center backs better than Rio, Campbell or Terry. Would you ever pick young or rose over Ashley Cole?

    Can anyone tell me Vardey is better than peak Owen?

    England don't have a holding midfielder as good as Owen Hargreaves. Or even Nicky Butt.

    I saw Gary Neville play right of 3 at the back under Hoddle and El tel and he looked much more comfortable than Walker does there.

    Peak shearer and seaman are outside the scope of the question.

    I think if England had had a manager in the style of Southgate or Hoddle, 2000-2012 I think they would have done better.

    In short, player for player, in the current system I think Kane would be only current player that would be a shoe in.

    Can't disagree with any of that - why the feck didn't we win anything??????

    Sven? McClaren?
    My thoughts too. Plus the fact that England were poor at penalty shootouts?
    We used to be shite, but now we're all right
  • Daddy_Pig
    Daddy_Pig Posts: 496
    Ashley Cole.

    The only player in that team who was the best in the world at his position.
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,274
    It sure about the golden generation but the way this team lacks creative spark in the middle make me think Shelvey should be there.
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  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,244
    Paul Scholes. It was criminal we forced him wide then into international retirement
  • Sherlock
    Sherlock Posts: 53
    Gerrard for me, Just a decent box to box midfielder is needed in this team, someone who can drive the team forwards with one pick out pass or a direct run towards goal.
  • Siv_in_Norfolk
    Siv_in_Norfolk Posts: 4,057
    Scholes all day long

    So underrated
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 16,915
    ForeverAddickted said:

    Paul Scholes... Wouldnt pick anyone else above the current lot

    He'd be perfect in the Dele Alli role

    Was my first thought as soon as the question came up. Has to be Scholes.

    On further thought I can't see anyone else really fitting the system/style of play. We never really had a great goalkeeper then either.
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,244
    Siv_in_Norfolk said:

    Scholes all day long

    So underrated

    Never underrated by me mate, in the darker games the supposed golden generation had where we'd conceded a silly goal or needed something to happen he never, ever hid. Always showed for the ball and used it.

    He got a reputation for not being able to tackle without two footing someone but any manager with a brain doesn't ask someone like Pirlo or Scholes to get stuck in, they tell them to be in space to receive the ball and make something happen
  • Covered_End_Lad
    Covered_End_Lad Posts: 5,725
    Scholes, most talented and underrated English player in my lifetime.
  • LawrieAbrahams
    LawrieAbrahams Posts: 3,779
    edited July 2018
    Covered_End_Lad said:

    Scholes, most talented and underrated English player in my lifetime.

    No ego, so would fit in well.
  • nth_london_addick
    nth_london_addick Posts: 35,919
    Becks all day long
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,825
    Football has changed a lot, even in the past 15 years so its hard to make comparisons. But there was a better squad of individual players then to now. They underperformed, they also had some bad luck, and also a number of other countries were better than they are now as well.
  • creepyaddick
    creepyaddick Posts: 6,152
    Beckham for me, I don't believe for one second, especially in an England shirt he was playing for himself. I wanted him for manager before fat Sam.

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