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Anyone thinking of becoming a tube or train driver after recent pay deals?
PrincessFiona
Posts: 5,438
Of course the lengthy Southern rail strikes have been about safety, but a 28% pay deal seems to be helping them get over their concerns?
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The more they strike and demand silly money the quicker we copy other countries and automate the whole system. Well the underground at least.
Yes someone will still be required to be on every train and they will still be paid well to spend that time underground every day. However the skilled (if you. An call pushing a button a skill) element of the job is removed. And the trauma element of the possibility of having someone jump in front of your train is removed as they won't be in the front.
Efficiency gains.3 -
Aslef have recommended they accept. RMT are still against it. The ballot has not yet taken place, so we don't know what the outcome will be. There will still be a second emergency trained person on board, except in exceptional circumstances. I am not judging who is right and who is wrong by the way, here's a piece that seems to set out the facts quite well: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/southern-railway-staff-to-vote-on-deal-to-end-driveronly-trains-dispute-36256217.html0
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Shift work, boring monotonous dark, no drinking at lunchtime, possibly stressful at times, people having a jealous pop at your earnings, the any monkey can do it attitude.
No thanks I’ll stick to my boring, unrewarding, time driven deadline, anyone can design and program slightly above average paid day job.
But at least I can drink heavily at time.2 -
Let the train take the strain CK.charltonkeston said:Shift work, boring monotonous dark, no drinking at lunchtime, possibly stressful at times, people having a jealous pop at your earnings, the any monkey can do it attitude.
No thanks I’ll stick to my boring, unrewarding, time driven deadline, anyone can design and program slightly above average paid day job.
But at least I can drink heavily at time.0 -
There is no reason for trains to have drivers in 2017.
Sadly, if they get rid of drivers, there's not a chance prices will drop as a result.3 -
Friend left the police to become a train driver recently due to the significantly higher pay.0
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Shocking that he has had to do this but can see whyse9addick said:Friend left the police to become a train driver recently due to the significantly higher pay.
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I'm a union and Labour man, but I'm afraid I have no time for the unions/drivers on this particular one. I'm lucky that I now have the DLR to get to work but, if this is all about safety, can they tell me why it has never been enough of an issue for them to have ever called strikes on my SouthEastern line over it? No additional guard on this line for years as far as I can remember (having started my commuting life in 1985).4
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Friend of mine left the fire service for the same reasonse9addick said:Friend left the police to become a train driver recently due to the significantly higher pay.
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I really see AI, automation going to the next level in the not too distant. It’s not that companies don’t have the technology to automate jobs, for me it’s more they haven’t worked out, with governments the best way to tackle the fallout of mass unemployment as a result. The train example you give is very good. 28 out of 50 U.S states the most common job is truck driver. They’re building driverless trucksStu_of_Kunming said:There is no reason for trains to have drivers in 2017.
Sadly, if they get rid of drivers, there's not a chance prices will drop as a result.
It goes further. You’ve got whole functions like finance that could be automated. We’ve had manufacturing automated to take away blue collar jobs. White collar is now very much in the firing line
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Well, quite. My line Southend Victoria to Liverpool Street has had driver only 12-carriage trains since the late 1980s. yet some of the RMT members in the Greater Anglia franchise are striking over the issue on other lines. It's like drivers of brewery drays going on strike because someone invented the internal combustion engine.TelMc32 said:I'm a union and Labour man, but I'm afraid I have no time for the unions/drivers on this particular one. I'm lucky that I now have the DLR to get to work but, if this is all about safety, can they tell me why it has never been enough of an issue for them to have ever called strikes on my SouthEastern line over it? No additional guard on this line for years as far as I can remember (having started my commuting life in 1985).
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Yes0
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It is quite simple, instead of the richest taking a larger and larger and larger slice of the cake as automation takes over, distribute the wealth more. Make a 20 hour week the norm for those who are working and pay them the same.cabbles said:
I really see AI, automation going to the next level in the not too distant. It’s not that companies don’t have the technology to automate jobs, for me it’s more they haven’t worked out, with governments the best way to tackle the fallout of mass unemployment as a result. The train example you give is very good. 28 out of 50 U.S states the most common job is truck driver. They’re building driverless trucksStu_of_Kunming said:There is no reason for trains to have drivers in 2017.
Sadly, if they get rid of drivers, there's not a chance prices will drop as a result.
It goes further. You’ve got whole functions like finance that could be automated. We’ve had manufacturing automated to take away blue collar jobs. White collar is now very much in the firing line
M
Remember when Andrea Leadsome said we should get excited because raspberry picking would be automated? Presumably those who would be out of a job because of it would still get paid, and just have more leisure time as a result? That's why they should get excited, isn't it?
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How long does it take and what does it take to become a tube / train driver?1
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Really wrong and concerning police officers and fireman are leaving to become train/tube drivers because the train/tune drivers are paid so much moreRedvalleyeast said:
Friend of mine left the fire service for the same reasonse9addick said:Friend left the police to become a train driver recently due to the significantly higher pay.
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Teachers, nurses ...PrincessFiona said:
Really wrong and concerning police officers and fireman are leaving to become train/tube drivers because the train/tune drivers are paid so much moreRedvalleyeast said:
Friend of mine left the fire service for the same reasonse9addick said:Friend left the police to become a train driver recently due to the significantly higher pay.
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Reminds me of the time Red Robbo was leading the strikes at British Leyland.
It was common practice to have the Union meetings in the car park with all the workers listening to the Union guys on a platform with tannoys set up. Robbo was looking at his members to accept the latest pay and conditions laid down by Leyland.
"Brothers, we have concluded our negotiations with management. They have agreed to a forty percent pay rise, they will pay 10% of salaries as pensions, holiday entitlement will increase to 35 days, we will get an annual bonus, you will all be able to buy a Leyland car at 25% of cost price and you will only have to work on Fridays".
Some wag at the back shouted in reply.
"What, every Friday"?2 -
Realistically, about two weeks worth of learning stretched out to six months, and the ability to keep yourself awake doing something incredibly boring for hours at a time (not being flippant here, plenty of people think it would be an easy nunber, but in reality it's apparently difficult to do the job without 'switching off' to the extent you become a liability. As a man who works in an industry where plenty of peoples' jobs are being replaced unjustly by machines, I can't think of a job that is MORE apt for being done by an automated systemcafc999 said:How long does it take and what does it take to become a tube / train driver?
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According to some, turn up Monday morning and after tea break at about 10:30 you are up and running and pocketing 50K /annum.cafc999 said:How long does it take and what does it take to become a tube / train driver?
I’ve always had the opinion, don’t worry what other people get. If it is that good, try and get it yourself but don’t try and stop people earning a good wedge.
It will probably all come to an end one day for the tube drivers just like it did for the print workers, car workers, coal miners, steel workers and any other manual worker who had comfortable lives earning decent pay, paying taxes and spending money. Until then good luck to them. After that the government of the day can pay benefits to them and their families or maybe they could do one of the jobs of one of us on here.4 - Sponsored links:
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My understanding of the strikes on Southern is more about the infrastructure associated to driver only operation, not just about losing the guard. They are saying with the equipment in place at the moment it isn't safe to rely on the driver alone.
When they started driver only operation on Railway when I worked on it, they spend many many £££s fitting cctv, mirrors, repeater signals etc and it seems Southern aren't keen on doing it.0 -
I suppose it is all about a free market system, and the workers are a factor in play.
How much do University Vice Chancellors get, or MP's?
I hope more workers are encouraged to take industrial action to get a pay rise, because it seems difficult to get one any other way.3 -
That's incorrect. I have worked for LU/TfL for 21 years and we have always recruited both internally as well as externally for Train Operators.MrOneLung said:
My understanding is they only recruit from within for the tube. So you have to work the platforms for a couple of years first.cafc999 said:How long does it take and what does it take to become a tube / train driver?
Also, automation is on it's way. The Central Line has been automatic for several years and new driverless trains are currently being looked at for other lines.1 -
The central line may well be automated yet I often have two staff members sitting in the cab on my journey
As I lived in Hainault at start of Central line I looked into being a tube driver after taking redundancy from RBS back in 2007 and TFL replied they were only recruiting internally. Maybe it was just at that particular time?0 -
Yes, please post the link0
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It may well have been. I know we advertised externally for Night Tube drivers and with internal and external applications, there were over 2000.0
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That's because the new intake would have been put on not favourable terms for working nights, those already through the door would have got an incremental night rate. My firm do exactly the same, those coming on now aren't on as good a pensions or have as much holiday and have to work 1.5 hours a week more. not sure what that achieves to be honest other than divides the workforce. Oh.....Duncan270566 said:It may well have been. I know we advertised externally for Night Tube drivers and with internal and external applications, there were over 2000.
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