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Selling our house - Advice required
Gravesend_Addick
Posts: 7,299
This is rather long winded but here goes
We agreed a price to sell our house 3 months ago. We have found a new property & are just waiting for contracts to be exchanged but solicitors are taking forever. When we sold the house, our buyer (a 1st time buyer), sent a building surveyor round to inspect the property. The chimney breast was removed years before my partner brought the house (she's been there 12 years). She had the boiler moved to the loft about 6 years ago. Inspection was done & I asked the surveyor if there were any issues, he replied that apart from a bit of damp in the bathroom, which is to be expected in this kind of house, everything was fine.
We get a phone call from the solicitor last week to say that, due to a discrepancy in the report, they are sending a 2nd surveyor round to inspect the loft. All very odd as we were unaware of any issue.
2nd Surveyor comes round & suggests the gallows brackets are not secure, they need urgent attention & will be formally putting that in writing. The 2nd surveyor told my partner that he is a good friend of our buyer & will be carrying out any work on his behalf. Surely that's a conflict of interest?
We received email confirmation this morning on behalf of our buyer suggesting the loft needs work & requesting we knock it off the asking price. Unhappy with this, I asked a builder friend of mine to inspect the loft this morning. As I suspected, he concluded that the brackets are perfectly secure & do not require any attention. I suspect at this very late stage that the buyer is just trying to knock money off the sale. It's made me very angry. I've requested a copy of the original survey as I'm not even sure an original discrepancy exists, but as he is acting on the buyers behalf, I don't know if we have access to it.
We're so close to completion & this could scupper the whole move. What are our options??
We agreed a price to sell our house 3 months ago. We have found a new property & are just waiting for contracts to be exchanged but solicitors are taking forever. When we sold the house, our buyer (a 1st time buyer), sent a building surveyor round to inspect the property. The chimney breast was removed years before my partner brought the house (she's been there 12 years). She had the boiler moved to the loft about 6 years ago. Inspection was done & I asked the surveyor if there were any issues, he replied that apart from a bit of damp in the bathroom, which is to be expected in this kind of house, everything was fine.
We get a phone call from the solicitor last week to say that, due to a discrepancy in the report, they are sending a 2nd surveyor round to inspect the loft. All very odd as we were unaware of any issue.
2nd Surveyor comes round & suggests the gallows brackets are not secure, they need urgent attention & will be formally putting that in writing. The 2nd surveyor told my partner that he is a good friend of our buyer & will be carrying out any work on his behalf. Surely that's a conflict of interest?
We received email confirmation this morning on behalf of our buyer suggesting the loft needs work & requesting we knock it off the asking price. Unhappy with this, I asked a builder friend of mine to inspect the loft this morning. As I suspected, he concluded that the brackets are perfectly secure & do not require any attention. I suspect at this very late stage that the buyer is just trying to knock money off the sale. It's made me very angry. I've requested a copy of the original survey as I'm not even sure an original discrepancy exists, but as he is acting on the buyers behalf, I don't know if we have access to it.
We're so close to completion & this could scupper the whole move. What are our options??
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Usual stuff I'm afraid, they'll stand by their qualified engineer is right and your 'builder' isn't. Two different fields, qualifications of your builder in structural field?
What are they asking to be knocked off? Depending on the sum meet half way? Or chance it and stand your ground. A first time buyer is unlikely to want to lose what they have spent in fees.
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Stand firm, tell them you've had a second opinion and you won't reduce the price. Too many of these shysters about27
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I had similar convolutions last year with my buyer messing us around although not like this creating all sorts of heartache. As I found out until you exchange contracts the buyer can leave the process at any point without penalty. I guess you could raise all these points with your conveyancer but it sounds like the buyer is trying it on a bit. If they really want your property an agreement will be arrived at regardless. Perhaps a third independent survey can be made although I get the fact that the first one should have been good enough, which both parties can agree to abide by?0
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You could employ your own structural surveyor, who would almost certainly be willing to provide a report saying that "there is nothing to suggest that the gallows brackets are insecure" or words to that effect. Obviously there's a cost attached to that.
Alternatively, you could call his bluff, because I'm sure he is just trying to scare you into accept a reduced price rather than losing the sale - tell him you are not willing to negotiate on the price at this late stage, and that any such issues should have been raised at a much earlier stage. Point out that you have arranged for a builder (or maybe say 2 builders) to inspect the loft, both of who have confirmed that there's nothing to suggest any structural weakness.
Don't forget, he'll probably have invested a fair bit in mortgage fees, surveys and conveyancing that he loses if it falls through. Stressful business, and obviously I don't know how much he's trying to knock off - only you can decide whether it's worth jeopardising the sale for over the amount in question. From an outsiders perspective, I'd tell him he can have it at the originally agreed price or not at all.5 -
I certainly think that there is a conflict of interest with the surveyor your buyer had used - but I doubt whether anything can be done as at the moment its only heresay (as you say, he said it to your partner) and I expect if it went any further they will deny any knowledge of knowing each other.
However, if the original surveyor (from the lender I am assuming) didn't pick up anything was wrong then your buyer hasn't really got any leverage on you. I would ask if you can see this first report & if not, why not ? also, what was the discrepancy ? at that point there was only 1 report. In these cases I always feel getting the estate agent involved is a good idea. Solicitors have their caveats & rules that always seem to add to the problem. As above I would also get a couple of quotes from a recognised builder just so you have some ammunition.0 -
tell them that if they are prepared to pay for an independent surveyor AND he finds these problems to exist, you will happily get a quote from an independent builder for the costs and then CONSIDER your position.
also tell them that with no independent surveyor the agreement in place isn't up for discussion.
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Its a negotiation tactic, nothing more. If you are willing to knock a bit off the price you can, otherwise stand your ground. The actual item up for discussion is effectively irrelevant as what they are asking for is money off and not the item to be fixed.
Personally i'd tell them to poke it1 -
If the buyer is paying for the "independent" surveyor, I don't think he'll actually be independent.cafcdave123 said:tell them that if they are prepared to pay for an independent surveyor AND he finds these problems to exist, you will happily get a quote from an independent builder for the costs and then CONSIDER your position.
also tell them that with no independent surveyor the agreement in place isn't up for discussion.0 -
i meant chrissy's army finds the guy and the buyer foots the billMrLargo said:
If the buyer is paying for the "independent" surveyor, I don't think he'll actually be independent.cafcdave123 said:tell them that if they are prepared to pay for an independent surveyor AND he finds these problems to exist, you will happily get a quote from an independent builder for the costs and then CONSIDER your position.
also tell them that with no independent surveyor the agreement in place isn't up for discussion.0 -
Ultimately it is all irrelevant. The buyer has reduced their offer and you have to re-negotiate the price.
Needless to day both sides are going to be wary of accepting what the other side's 'specialist' says as there is a vested interest.
If the buyer's surveyor is their friend they are more likely to trust him than your friend, who is a builder. If they believe that there is work needing doing they have to consider if they are willing to pay the agreed price and pay for the works. Even if they know it's a ruse it is possible that they won't budge on the price.
As I say the reason for the price reduction is irrelevant, what matters is how much they want it and how much you want the one you are buying.
All I would say is try to avoid getting emotional about it as it clouds your judgement. It may well be in your best interests to reduce the price but if you convince yourself that you have to stand firm against these chancers, you might end up scaring them away.1 - Sponsored links:
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This.
Stand your ground. If the buyer threatens to pull out, tell them that's up to them. It's a fairly safe bet to say they won't and are trying their luck.
The whole moving business is a total nightmare, without people being awkward.1 -
We were at the point of exchange a few years back when our buyer, at the eleventh hour, said he wanted 10 grand off or he would pull out. He knew we had found our dream home and were all set to move there. The estate agent also knew we had saved 10 grand over to do some improvements.
I told the estate agent to tell him to fuck off. Then I met a friend who had just had a load of chemo for cancer. She said if you want the house then give him what he wants - life is too short etc. So we did and had 15 happy years there. I even left him some bog roll and a note wishing him all the best. Go with your heart.
The only down side was that we had to put up with avocado bathroom and kitchen.5 -
moving is very stressful. Solicitors are in the main useless. You are near the finishing line and they are chancing their arm. It all depends how much you want the house you have found and whether you are willing to stand your ground and risk it all collapsing which will cost you money anyway. Personally if the work needed, or said to be needed, is 3k I'd offer to drop the asking price by 1k, take it or leave it.0
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This stinks of someone trying it on, I wouldn't budge on the price as you've agreed it and are now in a chain not only that, once you start wobbling they will seize that perceived weakness and try it on again.
If they were that serious about buying the place they would have had this family friend or whoever inspect the place before they made an offer.
Don't get the estate agents involved I don't trust them. They would inject their own parents with the ebola virus if they thought it would get them a sale regardless of the reduced price3 -
Tell them the sale is off0
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Thanks everyone
I should point out, my friend who inspected the gallows this morning is a steal fabricator with 30 years experience, who has made & installed lots of these support beams over the years, not just a builder. He has drafted a letter for me with photographic evidence, which states in his professional opinion, he believes the work already carried out is more than sufficient. I suspect our buyer is just chancing his arm, so we'll see what his response is once the letter is sent to the solicitors. Will keep you updated on the progress8 -
Tell them it's gone up £3000 if they want it19
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Yes, it is a conflict of interest and I would point it out to the solicitor. I had to deal with something similar recently and pulled out because of it.Chrissy\\\'s Army!! said:This is rather long winded but here goes
We agreed a price to sell our house 3 months ago. We have found a new property & are just waiting for contracts to be exchanged but solicitors are taking forever. When we sold the house, our buyer (a 1st time buyer), sent a building surveyor round to inspect the property. The chimney breast was removed years before my partner brought the house (she's been there 12 years). She had the boiler moved to the loft about 6 years ago. Inspection was done & I asked the surveyor if there were any issues, he replied that apart from a bit of damp in the bathroom, which is to be expected in this kind of house, everything was fine.
We get a phone call from the solicitor last week to say that, due to a discrepancy in the report, they are sending a 2nd surveyor round to inspect the loft. All very odd as we were unaware of any issue.
2nd Surveyor comes round & suggests the gallows brackets are not secure, they need urgent attention & will be formally putting that in writing. The 2nd surveyor told my partner that he is a good friend of our buyer & will be carrying out any work on his behalf. Surely that's a conflict of interest?
We received email confirmation this morning on behalf of our buyer suggesting the loft needs work & requesting we knock it off the asking price. Unhappy with this, I asked a builder friend of mine to inspect the loft this morning. As I suspected, he concluded that the brackets are perfectly secure & do not require any attention. I suspect at this very late stage that the buyer is just trying to knock money off the sale. It's made me very angry. I've requested a copy of the original survey as I'm not even sure an original discrepancy exists, but as he is acting on the buyers behalf, I don't know if we have access to it.
We're so close to completion & this could scupper the whole move. What are our options??
Is your buyer borrowing money? If so, it seems strange the lender hasn't got involved, assuming they haven't.
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Have a look at other similar properties in the area.
If it's been long enough, the value might have gone up and then you can tell them you want more money but might be willing to let them have a slight discount to cover this work.
Or if you're really brave, tell them to f**k off and sell it for the higher price!
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A lot of people turn into greedy bastards when it comes to selling/buying houses.
My brother coordinated the sale of my dads house when he died, we had two buyers, agreed a sale (at a good price to the buyer for a quick sale), all good until they came back a week before completion, and said we have remeasured the sitting room and our furniture doesn't fit, so we need you to knock 2k of so we can buy new furniture??? My brother reminded them that we had given them a price below market value for a quick sale, they repeated their demands, so my brother told her to piss off, and said he was cancelling the sale, she came back and said its ok I will pay what we agreed, unlucky, he told her she was a greedy cow, so he sold it to the other person.
Stand yer ground.15 - Sponsored links:
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+1 to putting up the price by the same amount thhatbthey want knocked off. Cheeky fcukers.0
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Send your guys report, suggest their friend has a conflict of interest and suggest an independent survey but resist any contribution. If they still mess them around tell them to fuck off and let them assess whether the £500 they wasted is worth walking away. House prices are still rising. Check Zoopla, your place may be worth more than they offered.1
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Even if they stop playing silly buggers try and get your hands on some Japanese knotweed and leave a bit in the garden just before you leave. The karma that one small act will keep you smiling for years to come.13
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Just on the point of prices, I'm in The middle of selling a property now, prices have stalled and there are a lot less buyers around than 6 months ago, I'd be cautious that other buyers are waiting in the wings. The market (IMHO) has peaked and is likely to drop before too long, particularly in London.
Not to say you can't or shouldn't hold your ground.3 -
Had a similar problem with the roof on my old house when selling. The survey said that the supports weren't strong enough as the roof was tiles instead of slates. Got Alltype roofing around to have have a look said there was nothing wrong and provided a letter FOC. There was no way back from there for the buyer.
The buyer then said we were leaving the washing machine ( it was brand new) we never said that we would. Anyway we were buying from Mrs GA's brother, he had an old m/c, I swapped it over, told the buyer I was leaving a washing m/c and then carried it upstairs and left it in a bedroom.18 -
If you are confident that the brackets are in fact safe it might be possible to take out an indemnity policy for a given reasonable period (say 5 years for arguments sake) against any damage caused by failure of the brackets at a reasonable cost.
I'd research the feasibility of this and then, if favourable, instruct my solicitor that I am prepared to indemnify but will not reduce the price.4 -
Gallows brackets are cheap to buy and easy to install.
If that's all that is holding things up get you builder mate to change them.1 -
I have a rule. It's that if stuff starts to go wrong with a contract, it's only going to get worse and I bail and start again with someone/thing else. I use this for all important contracts, whether house, car or holiday. I've never regretted it.2
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You have had a lot of good suggestions already, so I won't add to them by repeating any. But, in short, the good people of Charlton Life are split between (a) tell them to get lost (b) meet them either all or part of the way (c) stick the price up again. You should choose one of those. But here is a suggestion as to how you can decide between them...
Imagine you are the buyers. They found a house they really wanted to buy, three months ago. Three months! That's a long time to wait between seeing the house they want to live in and getting the keys. So, have they walked away in that time? Or have they stayed committed and actually spent more money on the house they know is right for them? The latter. They want the house. So they're not going to walk away for the sake of a few quid.
(Having said I am not going to add to the suggestions, I can't resist! This is what I would consider. Tell them the price is not being negotiated, but thanks for bringing the issue to your attention. Tell them you're going to get it fixed so that when you put it back on the market next week, it will be easier to find a buyer. Then wait for them to come round to your way of thinking).8 -
I'd be inclined to offer to buy them a box of bolts from screwfix and if they ain't happy with them tell the estate agent to remove the sold sign. Call their bluff.1
