Man stabbed to death in Charlton tonight
Comments
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Chizz said:
Would stiffer sentences for carrying knives have prevented last night's murder?
Whoever the low-life scum that committed this atrocity is, would he (assuming it's a he) have been less likely to have committed the murder (for which there is only one sentence available to judges on conviction) if the sentence for carrying a knife was more sever than it is?
I agree wholeheartedly that the sentences for carrying knives should be severe and that judges should not be concerned about handing out very stiff custodial sentences. But, if you are going to murder someone, do you take much notice of the sentence for a "lesser" crime?
There has to be a differential in the sentences for carrying a knife and for murder. Otherwise, anyone carrying one "might as well" commit murder.
I hope the pathetic individual who did this is caught. Fortunately, we know that, if he is, he will spend the rest of his miserable existence serving a life sentence.
but they don't serve a whole life sentance isn't usually a minimum term?0 -
One good reason for carrying knives is what @palarsehater has said (above). There are a few, but not many other reasons, for instance if you are taking them to a movie set or theatre as part of a production; taking them somewhere like a museum to be exhibited; or for a religious ceremony. None of these will come anywhere close to being relevant to the scumbag who used it last night.adrian said:
I can't imagine what a valid reason would be.palarsehater said:notting hill carnival last year is a prime example of how cheap life can be considered by these wankers carrying knives, no ifs no buts, 10 years straight in jail for carrying one without a valid reason.
One point worth noting, however, is that if you are carrying a knife for one of those reasons, it's not you that decides it's ok and it's not the police: if you're arrested for carrying a knife, it's a jury you have to convince. As it should be.0 -
Knife crime is a massive problem and I don't think politicians really want to deal with it. Police don't necessarily have the resources to deal with it.
Most of the victims seem to be in the 16 to 25 age group.0 -
The only sentence that can be handed down for murder is life. The judge may decide to set a tariff, ie the minimum amount of time that must be served in prison before the offender can be considered for parole. For example, if someone is sentenced to "life with a tariff of twenty years", he cannot be released from prison until he has served twenty years. (If someone is sentenced to twenty years (ie not "life with a minimum tariff of twenty years) he can be considered for parole after either one-third or a half of those twenty years).palarsehater said:Chizz said:Would stiffer sentences for carrying knives have prevented last night's murder?
Whoever the low-life scum that committed this atrocity is, would he (assuming it's a he) have been less likely to have committed the murder (for which there is only one sentence available to judges on conviction) if the sentence for carrying a knife was more sever than it is?
I agree wholeheartedly that the sentences for carrying knives should be severe and that judges should not be concerned about handing out very stiff custodial sentences. But, if you are going to murder someone, do you take much notice of the sentence for a "lesser" crime?
There has to be a differential in the sentences for carrying a knife and for murder. Otherwise, anyone carrying one "might as well" commit murder.
I hope the pathetic individual who did this is caught. Fortunately, we know that, if he is, he will spend the rest of his miserable existence serving a life sentence.
but they don't serve a whole life sentance isn't usually a minimum term?
If a "lifer" is paroled, it will be with certain restrictions (surrender of passport, requirement to report to a police station "x" times a week, only allowed to live in certain places, etc). But they will only be out "on licence". If they commit any more crimes while out on licence, they can be returned to jail to complete/continue their sentence.
So, no-one ever "completes" a life sentence.
There are currently 60 people serving whole-life tariffs set by the judge: these will never be released (unless their tariffs are reversed or their convictions quashed. In addition, the Home Secretary can set a whole-life tariff for a convict serving a life sentence. These are less frequent, but include Brady, Hindley, The Black Panther, Dennis Nilson, Rose West and Harold Shipman.
There are 26 people who have been giving whole-life tariffs, who have subsequently either had whole-life tariff reversed on appeal or had their convictions quashed because they are innocent. This is one of the strong arguments against the death penalty.
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We don't do facts on here!Chizz said:
The only sentence that can be handed down for murder is life. The judge may decide to set a tariff, ie the minimum amount of time that must be served in prison before the offender can be considered for parole. For example, if someone is sentenced to "life with a tariff of twenty years", he cannot be released from prison until he has served twenty years. (If someone is sentenced to twenty years (ie not "life with a minimum tariff of twenty years) he can be considered for parole after either one-third or a half of those twenty years).palarsehater said:Chizz said:Would stiffer sentences for carrying knives have prevented last night's murder?
Whoever the low-life scum that committed this atrocity is, would he (assuming it's a he) have been less likely to have committed the murder (for which there is only one sentence available to judges on conviction) if the sentence for carrying a knife was more sever than it is?
I agree wholeheartedly that the sentences for carrying knives should be severe and that judges should not be concerned about handing out very stiff custodial sentences. But, if you are going to murder someone, do you take much notice of the sentence for a "lesser" crime?
There has to be a differential in the sentences for carrying a knife and for murder. Otherwise, anyone carrying one "might as well" commit murder.
I hope the pathetic individual who did this is caught. Fortunately, we know that, if he is, he will spend the rest of his miserable existence serving a life sentence.
but they don't serve a whole life sentance isn't usually a minimum term?
If a "lifer" is paroled, it will be with certain restrictions (surrender of passport, requirement to report to a police station "x" times a week, only allowed to live in certain places, etc). But they will only be out "on licence". If they commit any more crimes while out on licence, they can be returned to jail to complete/continue their sentence.
So, no-one ever "completes" a life sentence.
There are currently 60 people serving whole-life tariffs set by the judge: these will never be released (unless their tariffs are reversed or their convictions quashed. In addition, the Home Secretary can set a whole-life tariff for a convict serving a life sentence. These are less frequent, but include Brady, Hindley, The Black Panther, Dennis Nilson, Rose West and Harold Shipman.
There are 26 people who have been giving whole-life tariffs, who have subsequently either had whole-life tariff reversed on appeal or had their convictions quashed because they are innocent. This is one of the strong arguments against the death penalty.6 -
We should be doing both. I think stop and search is not "random".1
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One thing I've never understood is why so many knives are milled to a sharp point. The blade will suffice to carry out most tasks, the end should be rounded and blunt.6
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Some kitchen tasks need a sharp point. Even if they make some knives rounded, the people carrying knives around with them would just buy the sharp ones?Raith_C_Chattonell said:One thing I've never understood is why so many knives are milled to a sharp point. The blade will suffice to carry out most tasks, the end should be rounded and blunt.
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Do we know what the story is surrounding the murder is yet?0
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To a determined killer maybe, but many stabbings are spontaneous to anger or centre around drug and alcohol abuse. Sharp, pointed knives are at hand in almost every kitchen. If the initiative to ban pointed knives had been adopted in the 70s there would most certainly be more people walking around today.Leeds_Addick said:
Some kitchen tasks need a sharp point. Even if they make some knives rounded, the people carrying knives around with them would just buy the sharp ones?Raith_C_Chattonell said:One thing I've never understood is why so many knives are milled to a sharp point. The blade will suffice to carry out most tasks, the end should be rounded and blunt.
My culinary skills are questionable to say the least, but how on earth is the pointy bit useful in the kitchen?
Please note that research has been published in the British medical journal to support this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm
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Quote from the local neighbourhood watch :PopIcon said:Do we know what the story is surrounding the murder is yet?
Many will know that unfortunately there was a very serious incident yesterday by the Rose of Denmark pub on the Woolwich Road. A young man in his early 30s was killed in an incident that was not fire arms related. We have been asked to let everyone know that there is no immediate risk to the general public associated with this event. The crime was gang related and therefore ordinary members of the public are not at increased risk.2 -
i believe the victims uncle has been posting on the charlton facebook group0
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Such a waste.0
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A few months ago the head of the met police Sir Bernard Hogan etc was on Nick Ferraris show stating we are getting tougher with people carrying knives, he said if you are caught twice carrying an offensive knife you can expect a hefty sentence of......6 months. You couldn't make it up.palarsehater said:notting hill carnival last year is a prime example of how cheap life can be considered by these wankers carrying knives, no ifs no buts, 10 years straight in jail for carrying one without a valid reason.
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The max possible sentence for carrying a knife is 4 years. (Guidance says you will get a custodial sentence for a second offence!) For a firearm, it's life. Don't really understand why there should be a difference.
The only snag is, there are legitimate reasons for having a knife. What if you've just been down to John Lewis and bought a nice new kitchen knife. (I've got a great meat cleaver which could probably take someone's head off - but I use it for trimming fat off steaks) Would producing a retail receipt and saying you were on your way home be a "reasonable excuse"?0 -
George Osborne promised that police funding would be protected. That promise has been broken. Cut police numbers, see violent crime and public order offences increase.0
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Probably. But it might be left to a jury to decide.cafcfan said:The max possible sentence for carrying a knife is 4 years. (Guidance says you will get a custodial sentence for a second offence!) For a firearm, it's life. Don't really understand why there should be a difference.
The only snag is, there are legitimate reasons for having a knife. What if you've just been down to John Lewis and bought a nice new kitchen knife. (I've got a great meat cleaver which could probably take someone's head off - but I use it for trimming fat off steaks) Would producing a retail receipt and saying you were on your way home be a "reasonable excuse"?0 -
You could only used that excuse for the day of the purchase.Chizz said:
Probably. But it might be left to a jury to decide.cafcfan said:The max possible sentence for carrying a knife is 4 years. (Guidance says you will get a custodial sentence for a second offence!) For a firearm, it's life. Don't really understand why there should be a difference.
The only snag is, there are legitimate reasons for having a knife. What if you've just been down to John Lewis and bought a nice new kitchen knife. (I've got a great meat cleaver which could probably take someone's head off - but I use it for trimming fat off steaks) Would producing a retail receipt and saying you were on your way home be a "reasonable excuse"?0 -
And most knives are in some sort of packaging. Bigger knives sealed.1
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Walked past the crime scene again a couple of days ago, and saw a group of yoofs on mopeds/dirtbikes with bandanas (the same one the victim is wearing in his Facebook photo, I don't know if there is a link) seriously burning the rubber out on the tyres and trying to provoke/aggravate the police, and were flying round the local sidestreets.0
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That was for some kind of 'honour' video that I believe may now be on YouTube or Facebook or somethingHuskaris said:Walked past the crime scene again a couple of days ago, and saw a group of yoofs on mopeds/dirtbikes with bandanas (the same one the victim is wearing in his Facebook photo, I don't know if there is a link) seriously burning the rubber out on the tyres and trying to provoke/aggravate the police, and were flying round the local sidestreets.
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Drove past around 8pm this evening and there was a large crowd of young blokes there - maybe a service of some sort?0
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watch the video on youtube.Cardinal Sin said:Drove past around 8pm this evening and there was a large crowd of young blokes there - maybe a service of some sort?
Unfortunately the cycle of stabbings will continue.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANPzP1sZdVU
Saw them riding around on Wednesday but didn't realise it was connected until I walked past later that evening when the neighbours were putting flowers out. The police seemed content to leave things be, despite the bikes and the industrial clouds of weed.
It's an horrible block down there, just neglected and frequently a target for flytipping.1 -
these lads on bikes - hardly sons of anarchy are they.0
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Rip Adam
Jac and the kids I hope you find the strength to carry on
Sad situation known him and his mum and sisters a very long time0 -
Annoying and anti social if you live in the area.palarsehater said:these lads on bikes - hardly sons of anarchy are they.
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@bbob i know it is, we have it in bexleyheath aswell, and one of my neighbours was recently nicked for having a go at one of them ( with a baseball bat ).1
