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The thread about Boxing
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To clarify I don't mean he quit against Golovkin, I mean he pressed the cash out buttonCarter said:
This is what I've said for a long time, every time someone says "British boxing is booming" they mean it's making a handful of people a lot of money. We have lots of people who hold versions of world titles but as soon as most come up against credible world level opponents they get shown up. Don't get me wrong Kell Brook is an excellent boxer but I think he essentially gave up in a sense when he fought Golovkin. That's just the way things go, but from the days of Lewis, Calzaghe, Hatton, Hamed, Nelson all absolutely dominating their divisions (remember Hatton never lost at 140lbs) I think we are weak and whilst at Heavyweight we have some strength remember Joshua beat a man who had been comfortably beaten by another Brit and as good as the fight was as a spectacle it could very easily have ended differently.stonewallpenalty said:What a shame. Still think he is our best boxer but seems to know when to pull out now. Fuck me they are right Spence and Gervonta are the future let's hope we have someone to fly the flag bar Aj and his casuals.
Billy-Joe Saunders knows damn well he isn't fit to fight either Alvarez or Golovkin but what else is there for him to enable him to say he's the main man.
Even Carl Froch in recent times can say he was never disgraced in a ring and showed his mettle against Taylor and Groves and fought everyone. We've got world champs who can't say that and know bloody well they will lose their belt first time they have to really face a test.
Some of thw best boxers walking the earth at the moment in no particular order and nor is it restricted to
Lomachencko
Kovalev
Ward
Gonzalez
Linares
Crawford
Golovkin
Alvarez
Rigondeux
Thurman
I don't see a British fighter that beats any of them except maybe Khan being quicker than Thurman but I seriously rate Keith Thurman and it would need him on a bad night and Khan on his best0 -
Loved Johnny Nelson, but he wasn't quite up there as a great0
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Kirkland Laing would have beat them all!Carter said:
This is what I've said for a long time, every time someone says "British boxing is booming" they mean it's making a handful of people a lot of money. We have lots of people who hold versions of world titles but as soon as most come up against credible world level opponents they get shown up. Don't get me wrong Kell Brook is an excellent boxer but I think he essentially gave up in a sense when he fought Golovkin. That's just the way things go, but from the days of Lewis, Calzaghe, Hatton, Hamed, Nelson all absolutely dominating their divisions (remember Hatton never lost at 140lbs) I think we are weak and whilst at Heavyweight we have some strength remember Joshua beat a man who had been comfortably beaten by another Brit and as good as the fight was as a spectacle it could very easily have ended differently.stonewallpenalty said:What a shame. Still think he is our best boxer but seems to know when to pull out now. Fuck me they are right Spence and Gervonta are the future let's hope we have someone to fly the flag bar Aj and his casuals.
Billy-Joe Saunders knows damn well he isn't fit to fight either Alvarez or Golovkin but what else is there for him to enable him to say he's the main man.
Even Carl Froch in recent times can say he was never disgraced in a ring and showed his mettle against Taylor and Groves and fought everyone. We've got world champs who can't say that and know bloody well they will lose their belt first time they have to really face a test.
Some of thw best boxers walking the earth at the moment in no particular order and nor is it restricted to
Lomachencko
Kovalev
Ward
Gonzalez
Linares
Crawford
Golovkin
Alvarez
Rigondeux
Thurman
I don't see a British fighter that beats any of them except maybe Khan being quicker than Thurman but I seriously rate Keith Thurman and it would need him on a bad night and Khan on his best1 -
.....after smoking a bag of skunk.bobmunro said:
Kirkland Laing would have beat them all!Carter said:
This is what I've said for a long time, every time someone says "British boxing is booming" they mean it's making a handful of people a lot of money. We have lots of people who hold versions of world titles but as soon as most come up against credible world level opponents they get shown up. Don't get me wrong Kell Brook is an excellent boxer but I think he essentially gave up in a sense when he fought Golovkin. That's just the way things go, but from the days of Lewis, Calzaghe, Hatton, Hamed, Nelson all absolutely dominating their divisions (remember Hatton never lost at 140lbs) I think we are weak and whilst at Heavyweight we have some strength remember Joshua beat a man who had been comfortably beaten by another Brit and as good as the fight was as a spectacle it could very easily have ended differently.stonewallpenalty said:What a shame. Still think he is our best boxer but seems to know when to pull out now. Fuck me they are right Spence and Gervonta are the future let's hope we have someone to fly the flag bar Aj and his casuals.
Billy-Joe Saunders knows damn well he isn't fit to fight either Alvarez or Golovkin but what else is there for him to enable him to say he's the main man.
Even Carl Froch in recent times can say he was never disgraced in a ring and showed his mettle against Taylor and Groves and fought everyone. We've got world champs who can't say that and know bloody well they will lose their belt first time they have to really face a test.
Some of thw best boxers walking the earth at the moment in no particular order and nor is it restricted to
Lomachencko
Kovalev
Ward
Gonzalez
Linares
Crawford
Golovkin
Alvarez
Rigondeux
Thurman
I don't see a British fighter that beats any of them except maybe Khan being quicker than Thurman but I seriously rate Keith Thurman and it would need him on a bad night and Khan on his best3 -
Sorry mate I can't have that. Nelson won the WBO during the period where it wasn't respected as one of the major belts. Correct me if I'm wrong but Nelson was never the #1 in his division according to the Ring, lineal title, or any other independent rankings.Carter said:
I was talking in terms of dominance, the term great is subjective but the number of years he dominated for isn'tMcBobbin said:Loved Johnny Nelson, but he wasn't quite up there as a great
Hatton was the #1 at 140 briefly, although let's not forget he spent most of his time defending a WBU strap which fooled the general population into thinking he was already "the champ".
Anyway, I agree with your overall sentiment: that there are, and have been, very few #1's from the UK for their weight class. However, Naz and Lewis I think were during the 90's, and Hatton and Calzaghe about 10 years after that when they hit #1. So really we are looking at just 2 per decade or so as our usual amount.
Although Haye was #1 at Cruiser I believe a handful of years back. Fury de-throned Vlad also as #1.
Contentious ones of late would be:
- Degale at 168, but Jack also had a claim for that
- Possibly Frampton at Feather after beating LSC?
- Joshua, if you are excluding Fury since his ban
So if you looked at how many #1's the UK has every decade I would say we are probably just about more so this decade than the previous couple.0 -
Sockless and wearing trainersSuedeAdidas said:
.....after smoking a bag of skunk.bobmunro said:
Kirkland Laing would have beat them all!Carter said:
This is what I've said for a long time, every time someone says "British boxing is booming" they mean it's making a handful of people a lot of money. We have lots of people who hold versions of world titles but as soon as most come up against credible world level opponents they get shown up. Don't get me wrong Kell Brook is an excellent boxer but I think he essentially gave up in a sense when he fought Golovkin. That's just the way things go, but from the days of Lewis, Calzaghe, Hatton, Hamed, Nelson all absolutely dominating their divisions (remember Hatton never lost at 140lbs) I think we are weak and whilst at Heavyweight we have some strength remember Joshua beat a man who had been comfortably beaten by another Brit and as good as the fight was as a spectacle it could very easily have ended differently.stonewallpenalty said:What a shame. Still think he is our best boxer but seems to know when to pull out now. Fuck me they are right Spence and Gervonta are the future let's hope we have someone to fly the flag bar Aj and his casuals.
Billy-Joe Saunders knows damn well he isn't fit to fight either Alvarez or Golovkin but what else is there for him to enable him to say he's the main man.
Even Carl Froch in recent times can say he was never disgraced in a ring and showed his mettle against Taylor and Groves and fought everyone. We've got world champs who can't say that and know bloody well they will lose their belt first time they have to really face a test.
Some of thw best boxers walking the earth at the moment in no particular order and nor is it restricted to
Lomachencko
Kovalev
Ward
Gonzalez
Linares
Crawford
Golovkin
Alvarez
Rigondeux
Thurman
I don't see a British fighter that beats any of them except maybe Khan being quicker than Thurman but I seriously rate Keith Thurman and it would need him on a bad night and Khan on his best0 -
We're not far from total agreement here and I am in admiration of how you've broken it down, what my point is with Johnny Nelson is he beat every challenger (there were some shady Warren jobs in there as is the case with Calzaghe) but I don't believe in the time he held whatever belt he ducked anyone capable of laying claim to being the main man. Hatton for me was the main man at 140 again, regardless of the governing body and I also think he lost every fight at 147 including the one against Collazo the others he actually got stopped in so maybe a bit moot. Or I've worded it wrong but at light welter he was the king.balham red said:
Sorry mate I can't have that. Nelson won the WBO during the period where it wasn't respected as one of the major belts. Correct me if I'm wrong but Nelson was never the #1 in his division according to the Ring, lineal title, or any other independent rankings.Carter said:
I was talking in terms of dominance, the term great is subjective but the number of years he dominated for isn'tMcBobbin said:Loved Johnny Nelson, but he wasn't quite up there as a great
Hatton was the #1 at 140 briefly, although let's not forget he spent most of his time defending a WBU strap which fooled the general population into thinking he was already "the champ".
Anyway, I agree with your overall sentiment: that there are, and have been, very few #1's from the UK for their weight class. However, Naz and Lewis I think were during the 90's, and Hatton and Calzaghe about 10 years after that when they hit #1. So really we are looking at just 2 per decade or so as our usual amount.
Although Haye was #1 at Cruiser I believe a handful of years back. Fury de-throned Vlad also as #1.
Contentious ones of late would be:
- Degale at 168, but Jack also had a claim for that
- Possibly Frampton at Feather after beating LSC?
- Joshua, if you are excluding Fury since his ban
So if you looked at how many #1's the UK has every decade I would say we are probably just about more so this decade than the previous couple.
Haye at cruiserweight unified but understandably wanted to move up so didn't get a chance to dominate a somewhat bereft division.
Froch in another generation would have been top boy, Andre Ward had his number and I think if they avoid one another Groves and Degale can seal off 168lbs for a while but everyone wants to see them two fight again.
Frampton is a bees dick away from being the boss but Santa Cruz for my money has an extra gear.
Once Joshua and Fury get their duel put of the way we will see who absolutely dominates at Heavyweight as it will be one or the other of them2 -
About to watch Smith against Zeuge. Enjoyed Smiths fights against Abraham. Not sure i will stay awake for Kovalev Ward but that ought to be a skillful if slightly full affair. Anyone else watching?0
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Big win for Andre Ward, putting all the doubts about his win in the first fight firmly to rest with an 8th round TKO of Kovalev.0
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Smith was pretty much outclassed from start to finish0
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Yeah he pretty much lost every round apart from maybe the 3rd. Probably the end of his career now i think0
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Didn't see it but sounds a controversial stoppage with some low blows from Ward?Chris_from_Sidcup said:Big win for Andre Ward, putting all the doubts about his win in the first fight firmly to rest with an 8th round TKO of Kovalev.
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Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Big win for Andre Ward, putting all the doubts about his win in the first fight firmly to rest with an 8th round TKO of Kovalev.
IMO a ridiculous piece of refereeing, Kovalev was caught low a couple of times earlier in the fight but the ref told him to just carry on.Friend Or Defoe said:
Didn't see it but sounds a controversial stoppage with some low blows from Ward?Chris_from_Sidcup said:Big win for Andre Ward, putting all the doubts about his win in the first fight firmly to rest with an 8th round TKO of Kovalev.
Then 3 low blows in succession and the ref calls a technical KO, even if he thought they were legal I understand that he should have given a standing eight count.
The ref cost Kovalev this fight, a second rematch must happen.0 -
Kov was blowing from the body shots , Ward knew this . I thought the ending was weird but it was coming.
As for Smith how the hell he even got the shot at that non title is beyond me.0 -
Yes the legit body shots were taking their toll no doubt but 3 south of the border was no way to win a fight .buckshee said:Kov was blowing from the body shots , Ward knew this . I thought the ending was weird but it was coming.
As for Smith how the hell he even got the shot at that non title is beyond me.
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Fell asleep midway through the Smith fight, but he was nowhere near competing. I'll have to watch a replay if the Ward fight0
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Kovalev - Ward fight was ruined by terrible refereeing.
Ward was the more likely fighter to win anyway but Weeks turned it into a farce by ignoring clearly low shots and stopping the fight early (imo)0 -
Not sure the ref cost Kovalev the fight - I think Ward would have stopped in in the next round or so and he was clearly getting on top.Greenie said:Chris_from_Sidcup said:Big win for Andre Ward, putting all the doubts about his win in the first fight firmly to rest with an 8th round TKO of Kovalev.
IMO a ridiculous piece of refereeing, Kovalev was caught low a couple of times earlier in the fight but the ref told him to just carry on.Friend Or Defoe said:
Didn't see it but sounds a controversial stoppage with some low blows from Ward?Chris_from_Sidcup said:Big win for Andre Ward, putting all the doubts about his win in the first fight firmly to rest with an 8th round TKO of Kovalev.
Then 3 low blows in succession and the ref calls a technical KO, even if he thought they were legal I understand that he should have given a standing eight count.
The ref cost Kovalev this fight, a second rematch must happen.
Unsatisfactory finish I agree and a standing eight perhaps should have been given (assuming the rule was in place). If the ref didn't view it a low blow then clearly Kovalev was using the ropes to stay up so in that case the ref was probably right to call it off as he clearly couldn't defend himself - his knees never hit the canvas.
There will not be a rematch - no need as Ward has beaten him twice and it much the better boxer. Adonis Stevenson would be the ideal next opponent to unify the titles - then retirement for Ward as one of the all time greats.0 - Sponsored links:
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Ward's only 33 surely a bit premature to start talking of retirement? I thought Paul Smith was retired!0
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There is no standing 8 count in unified rules. Kov was obviously so buzzed from that right hand to the chin he didn't have the faculties to take a knee.
Kovalev doesn't have the elite engine. He has everything else though. I had him winning by a round but reckon the low blows gave him an excuse. He was done. Ward had won and weeks took the stoppage off him.
Reminded me of Froch v Groves 1.
I hope they move on now. There are still many options for both fighters like Gvodzyk, Beterbiev, Joe Smith etc0 -
Boxing retirement isn't always about age. When you have beaten the best at your two natural career weights and earned enough money which Ward has there is no need to keep putting yourself through tough camps and risk getting damaged in the fight. His legacy is complete and his bank balance is very healthy.Friend Or Defoe said:Ward's only 33 surely a bit premature to start talking of retirement? I thought Paul Smith was retired!
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Shit stoppage I had ward up by two at that point but once again a farce stoppage puts what would have been a legitimate win for ward in dispute
Should have a third fight as we all know Kov won the first and was robbed
Ward won this one
Let's see if they go again
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Don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere else, but there was an interesting three-part series about the McGuigans on the BBC, initially shown on BBC Northern Ireland and then on BBC1 this week and still on iPlayer.
Includes Carl Frampton's two fights against Santa Cruz, and the very sad situation of Eduard Gutknecht following his fight with George Groves.
Worth a watch if you haven't seen them:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08r6xrc3 -
Was very good. An excellent documentary on netflix "Counter Punch" worth a watch too.AllLeftFoot said:Don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere else, but there was an interesting three-part series about the McGuigans on the BBC, initially shown on BBC Northern Ireland and then on BBC1 this week and still on iPlayer.
Includes Carl Frampton's two fights against Santa Cruz, and the very sad situation of Eduard Gutknecht following his fight with George Groves.
Worth a watch if you haven't seen them:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08r6xrc0 -
Anthony fowlers body shot stoppage last night had a touch of the Ricky hattons about it if dave coldwell keeps him in check and doesn't let him get ahead of himself he could be the next Fowler to do well in his chosen profession0
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I missed the boxing last night - I'll catch it on YouTube.nth london addick said:Anthony fowlers body shot stoppage last night had a touch of the Ricky hattons about it if dave coldwell keeps him in check and doesn't let him get ahead of himself he could be the next Fowler to do well in his chosen profession
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pretty boy Kelly certainly is a booth fighter and so far is backing up the hype , very interested in how long he can fight with his hands that low, his ability to move on instinct and reactions seems impressive but you can't help but think if he gets hit that's it
Fowler on the other hand is improving also but in a more old school way the Under guide of dave c
Two real prospects very early on the journey0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEkM_KcI9YI
