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How do we defeat ISIS?
MuttleyCAFC
Posts: 47,729
One thing is for sure, we won't rid the world of ISIS continuing with the same approach that allowed it to grow in the first place. You don't put a fire out by throwing petrol on it! What we should do in my opinion is adopt a novel (for the west) approach of not intervening. The twin towers attack was designed to encourage retaliation as extremists knew that intervention would propel the rise of their beliefs and further interventions sustain it.
Firstly, in Syria we are confused about who our enemy is. This is providing a vacuum that actually helps ISIS. We have to hold our noses, but the answer is to stop supporting the jihadist-led Syrian insurgency and stop supporting the regional allies (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc) that are also supporting it. The solution to destroying ISIS in the region is going to come from the Syrian regime that America has been stupidly trying to overthrow.
America should stop supporting the sectarian Shi’ite government in Iraq and force Baghdad to compromise with the Iraqi Sunnis they have been brutally persecuting for a decade. Whilst ISIS has Sunni origins, the Sunni tribes do not necessarily support them and by taking away a bigger reason to fight, the Sunni tribes would be more likely to turn against ISIS as they did in 2006. This will give the terrorists fleeing Syria nowhere to run.
The West should stop directly bombing Syria and Iraq. These attacks massacre civilians, and thereby only strengthen ISIS. Society is as a result, weakened and less capable of resisting the hardened extremists. Plus, more Muslim youth are thus radicalized by atrocity and more susceptible to extremist recruitment. ISIS wants us to attack it. Why haven't any of our leaders understood that it is best not to do what your enemy wants you to.
The Middle East has loads of problems, but western intervention there never ends well. Why not try not intervening!
Firstly, in Syria we are confused about who our enemy is. This is providing a vacuum that actually helps ISIS. We have to hold our noses, but the answer is to stop supporting the jihadist-led Syrian insurgency and stop supporting the regional allies (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc) that are also supporting it. The solution to destroying ISIS in the region is going to come from the Syrian regime that America has been stupidly trying to overthrow.
America should stop supporting the sectarian Shi’ite government in Iraq and force Baghdad to compromise with the Iraqi Sunnis they have been brutally persecuting for a decade. Whilst ISIS has Sunni origins, the Sunni tribes do not necessarily support them and by taking away a bigger reason to fight, the Sunni tribes would be more likely to turn against ISIS as they did in 2006. This will give the terrorists fleeing Syria nowhere to run.
The West should stop directly bombing Syria and Iraq. These attacks massacre civilians, and thereby only strengthen ISIS. Society is as a result, weakened and less capable of resisting the hardened extremists. Plus, more Muslim youth are thus radicalized by atrocity and more susceptible to extremist recruitment. ISIS wants us to attack it. Why haven't any of our leaders understood that it is best not to do what your enemy wants you to.
The Middle East has loads of problems, but western intervention there never ends well. Why not try not intervening!
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Put a dome over the Middle East and leave them too it... they're ungovernable and will never be controlled, just need to stop them causing shit outside of those areas!!4
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Short of inventing a time machine and undoing the mistakes of the past, I don't think there is much anyone nation can do.
Theses types will always be here.7 -
Keep doing cute "pray for" hash tags after each attack.19
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Buy them all Charlton season tickets - they will all fuck off in to hiding after a couple of games.10
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Gawd I hope they're not around for the protests, might take them a bit too farricky_otto said:Buy them all Charlton season tickets - they will all fuck off in to hiding after a couple of games.
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That's the worse thing.charltonkeston said:Short of inventing a time machine and undoing the mistakes of the past, I don't think there is much anyone nation can do.
Theses types will always be here.
The types will always be around.
Such a sad sad pointless waste of life. Why do people have so much mis-guided hate within them? You get psychopaths ... That's just unfortunate human biology that sometimes happens. This is obviously beyond that.
I utterly detest religion. Sorry but I do. In particular times like this. Yes.
Life is precious and religion can, in a lot of cases, curve an angle to suggest that it is not so precious, even to the person believing in the religion itself. They are all living in a dream world. I'm talking religion as a whole. It kills people. The same morons would still find another excuse to kill even if religion didn't exist? Yes.
It's also education.
Teaching young people the harsh reality of what is real and what is not real from a young age.
Sad to all people that don't or never did have that privelidge.
How do you stop acts of terrorism? You can try and understand it for one thing. Get as much Intel as possible.
Well that's a question.
How was Hitler stopped?
In a very unfortunate way that was unkind to the people that had to sacrifice their lives.
War.
I fear for the world at the moment.
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Nukem7
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Appoint Meire as their CEO.35
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Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.MuttleyCAFC said:One thing is for sure, we won't rid the world of ISIS continuing with the same approach that allowed it to grow in the first place. You don't put a fire out by throwing petrol on it! What we should do in my opinion is adopt a novel (for the west) approach of not intervening.
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Urgh thats disgusting... no way do they deserve that, we need to stop the issue not make it worselegaladdick said:Appoint Meire as their CEO.
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Oh almost forgot, keeping stating that "it has nothing to do with Islam" and that the rise of the right and drunk Europeans shouting abuse on trains is the worst part of all of it.BR7_addick said:Keep doing cute "pray for" hash tags after each attack.
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You can eventually decimate a group if the worlds leaders were willing enough to, but it's not ISIS that is the real problem but the ideology behind it.
And sadly, you can't stop that.4 -
It wouldn't be ignoring them. There would have to be a plan and expectations how things need to develop.Dazzler21 said:
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.MuttleyCAFC said:One thing is for sure, we won't rid the world of ISIS continuing with the same approach that allowed it to grow in the first place. You don't put a fire out by throwing petrol on it! What we should do in my opinion is adopt a novel (for the west) approach of not intervening.
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Why though is the world like how it is...
i.e. the craziest nation is Russia why cant they be the size of San Marino
i.e. all the oil is in the Middle East, why cant it be in New Zealand or Iceland with it all operated so that it doesnt ruin the scenery0 -
Send them bush and Blair as part of a ceasefire deal2
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Whilst I agree with your sentiment, the issues with ISIS no longer revolve around the Middle East. They revolve around our own neighbourhoods just as much - and not simply from immigrants, but from people that have never set foot outside the UK but have been indoctrinated in to the same ideology (note: not specifically religion.) that plagues the Middle East.
Ditch the idea of the "Lone Wolf"
That's an archaic idea, and when entire organisations are encouraging people to take up arms and fight as individuals then the concept no longer exists.
Starve them of publicity
Impossible nowadays, but look at Twitter in the last 12 hours: there's enough footage that your imagination doesn't need to fill in the gaps anymore. Essentially social medias gruesome obsession with sharing footage and imagery from these attacks is giving ISIS a propaganda machine and PR department that money simply cant buy.
Integration. Integration. Integration.
Whitechapel. Luton. Rotherham. Etc Etc.
These areas provide the perfect conditions to facilitate isolation and radicalisation, and provide a barrier to a younger generation from taking on the identity that's on their passport. You can't demand that people identify with the country they live in, when they actually live in a very specific pocket with a different culture and set of values.
Discussions without fear
Regardless of your viewpoint, you should be able to share it. I'm not talking about EDL types that want to go out and picket a mosque, but I mean those who are afraid of speaking out about certain things for fear of being labelled xenophobic or islamophobic. It isn't wrong to make an observation about another group of people; in fact the fear of being called out as Islamophobic has actively stopped people reporting things to the police. (I believe it transpired that the 7/7 bombers had a bleached garden from the Peroxide they were using, and the neighbours has also made other peculiar observations: when asked why this wasn't reported they claimed they didn't want to appear judgemental.) This attitude breeds a frustration that will - in turn - tip over to anger, and potentially violence.
One of the top intelligence bods in France said only 2 days ago that he's under the impression that France is currently on the "knife-edge" of a "far-right backlash" that could lead to "civil war". This is arguably our primary concern - not the terrorism itself, but knee-jerk reactions which will turn in to something bloody and nasty.4 -
And lastly, and most controversially, admit that the problem is primarily found in a specific part of our population.
I like the thoughts of "Maajid Nawaz" on this, he ran off to fight in Bosnia to defend the Muslims during the Yugoslav war. He knows about extremism and has had his own tough story. He now runs a counter-extremism think-tank.
If you consistently deny that these issues are more prevalent in the Muslim community, and are actively furthered using propaganda based around the Islamic faith, then you can't defeat the problem. Admit it, These terrorists are Muslims is a very good article he wrote on this topic, I'd fully advise you to read it (and think about his background) before you hit the "Flag" button.
The Muslim community needs to actively be involved in this, and that is going to mean no more "He wasn't a real Muslim" responses.9 -
Good points, the non intervention would not apply outside of the Middle East - within our region we need to identify what works and do all we can! We do have to be careful. I have always thought the problem will ultimately be solved by Muslims.0
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Sharks with lasers on their heads... that'll stop 'emMuttleyCAFC said:Good points, the non intervention would not apply outside of the Middle East - within our region we need to identify what works and do all we can!
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Utterly flabergasted. How long was Tony Bliar the UN Middle East peace envoy?
You'll be telling me next that the IRA never got rid of all their kit...
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We're very much agreed then; let's stop prodding the hornets nest in our neighbours garden, and do some gardening of our own first!MuttleyCAFC said:Good points, the non intervention would not apply outside of the Middle East - within our region we need to identify what works and do all we can!
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You say the west shouldn't be dropping bombs on Syria and Iraq, but you wouldn't be saying that if you watched 'Ross Kemp goes to Syria' last night.
The Kurds are doing an excellent job in pushing Isis back and they put emphasis on how much the air strikes have helped them, they'd probably be defeated if they didn't have that help. It's a sad situation the amount of deaths and civilian casualties but I get the impression a lot of these captured civilians would rather be dead than be under Isis control any longer. They're animals.
Personally I think we need to help the Kurdish army with boots on the ground and supplying some more ammunition. At the same time we need to cut off their funding, punish countries buying oil etc from isis. This will hit them the hardest1 -
Who is 'them' and where are they? Don't think they live in a 100ft trump tower with ISIS TOWERS written in glowing neon letters like Biff Tannens place in Back to the future 2.Chippycafc said:Nukem
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I think we all need to up the use of the word 'condemn' after any major attack. That really hits them where it hurts and will stop any further incidents.9
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Whether it is planning and coordinating these attacks or simply inspiring lone wolf attacks the internet and smart phone technology provide huge assistance in helping to facilitate them. And yet the people who run the companies that dominate these technologies still insist on the right to data privacy for their customers. Microsoft won another major case against the US government yesterday on data privacy for criminals. After a recent attack in the US Apple refused to cooperate with the FBI to help unlock an iPhone belonging to one of the terrorists. The free world can no longer afford the luxury of data privacy. The intelligence communities must be given unfettered access to every IP address, phone number, internet conversation, text conversation, phone conversation, cloud data storage account, Facebook and Twitter accounts anywhere in the world whenever they want.1
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That's nonsense mate, if you wanna hit em where it hurts you need to change your Facebook profile picture to the French flag and your status "terrorism will not defeat us". That has them quaking in their Birkenstocks that one.ValleyGary said:I think we all need to up the use of the word 'condemn' after any major attack. That really hits them where it hurts and will stop any further incidents.
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#wewillbeatthis #staystrongBR7_addick said:
That's nonsense mate, if you wanna hit em where it hurts you need to change your Facebook profile picture to the French flag and your status "terrorism will not defeat us". That has them quaking in their Birkenstocks that one.ValleyGary said:I think we all need to up the use of the word 'condemn' after any major attack. That really hits them where it hurts and will stop any further incidents.
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I don't doubt the air strikes have helped them, but they have an almost impossible task. I'm not sure it is one they can achieve. The Assad regime (which it is right to loathe) with the support of Russia could defeat ISIS in military terms if we just let them. The problem is that ISIS was a group we were supporting in their fight against Syria a few years ago. Religion is so complex there, sometimes you need a way to stop muslims killing and persecuting each other. Sometimes that way isn't so savoury but intervening causes a greater mess.Greenie Junior said:You say the west shouldn't be dropping bombs on Syria and Iraq, but you wouldn't be saying that if you watched 'Ross Kemp goes to Syria' last night.
The Kurds are doing an excellent job in pushing Isis back and they put emphasis on how much the air strikes have helped them, they'd probably be defeated if they didn't have that help. It's a sad situation the amount of deaths and civilian casualties but I get the impression a lot of these captured civilians would rather be dead than be under Isis control any longer. They're animals.
Personally I think we need to help the Kurdish army with boots on the ground and supplying some more ammunition. At the same time we need to cut off their funding, punish countries buying oil etc from isis. This will hit them the hardest1 -
Why on earth are you talking about "controlling" the Middle East? If the roles were reversed, would you be happy if Iranian/Saudi governments controlled the West?ForeverAddickted said:Put a dome over the Middle East and leave them too it... they're ungovernable and will never be controlled, just need to stop them causing shit outside of those areas!!
We can start by stop pretending that "we are better than them".4 -
said months and months ago stop the money----the oil was going via trucks through Turkey and it wasnt until the Russians turned up that the yanks started targeting the oil revenue----fuck knows why .
The money goes into banks and its BILLIONs-----stop it hold it starve the scum.
They go in and out via Turkey the World knows it so stop their routes in and out.
Radio yesterday that criminals in UK prisions are being radicialised and prision offocers are doing nothing afraid of being reported as racists-----fuck that -- sort it out or we get the issue here for DECADES
Integration ? you mean like the Human Rights Act----Anti Racism laws---Positive Discrimination---they dont give a rats shit about any of that.
What country under Islam is FREE in the western understanding of the word ? to the nearest NONE how many churches have been built in an Islamic country in the last 20 years ? How many mosques (to the nearest hunderds)have been built in EUROPE in the last 20 years ??? Intregration that works both ways.
The Cult offers you NOTHING except pain, domination,suppression, and death show them those as FACTS4
