Jamie Vardy Harry Kane Euro2016
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Exactly.0
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Are they? - Jesus wept... Along with Switzerland the only team to fail to get out of their Group as Euro Hosts.ricky_otto said:
Are you telling me that Austria aren't the 10th best international football team? (:ForeverAddickted said:Really not worried about Wales now even if they have Ramsey in their squad... Bale being injured will see them flop, even if he goes then we just need to get someone like Eric Dier to mark him out of the game.
Wales and Belgium are two perfect reasons why the FIFA Rankings should be ignored...
Both are about 5/10 places above where they should be
Surely they should give an extra 1000 points (or whatever) to those who Qualify for a major competition and then a further X points for each stage of that competition they get to... the only reason the likes of Wales have got close to us is because they've lost one or two Qualification matches / Friendlies whilst England have only lost at Major Competitions and Friendlies!!0 -
You are going back to his old statistics to back up him being in the team though, for me it really is as simple as on current form/his physical state this year:ricky_otto said:
You're going back to a period that was between 6-10 years ago. In those ; years he won the league 3 times, champions league, PFA player of the year scoring 95 goals in the process
He has 261 club goals of 558 games and 51 in 109 internationals. And countless assists. He also happens to me the captain of club and country.
Yes he has struggled at times in an England shirt - who hasn't?even the 'new bread' will have periods when it goes belly up.
Not bad for a player that couldn't control a ball.
- Not as good a striker as Kane
- Not as effective on the left wing as Sterling/Welbeck
- Not as dynamic a number 10 as Alli
Those are the 3 positions he would be played in and he isn't the best player at any of them. This isn't the same Rooney who was at Euro 2004 or even the Rooney who was part of one of the best attacking lines in Prem history with Tevez/Ronaldo. He unfortunately keeps getting hurt and has played a hell of a lot of football and it has taken a toll.
He can add to the squad but he shouldn't be forced into a side because he is Wayne Rooney if he is a square peg for our best chance of winning, which is having a side which is physically dominant and plays at a higher tempo than the rest of Europe can handle as we saw with Kane/Welbeck/Henderson/Alli against Germany.3 -
I'm not having an argument, I am putting forth an opinion and getting kicked for using the word literally (which, I agree, should only be used in its purest sense, which I tried to do. But rather than debate the point, you guys wanted to debate the merits of the evolution of the English language).ricky_otto said:
There are some arguments that are just not worth having.Algarveaddick said:
Remind me who is condescending? Okay you win, Rooney is shit.JiMMy 85 said:
literallyAlgarveaddick said:JiMMy 85 said:
Patronise all you like Algarve, I meant literally in its most literal sense; during 2006 and 2010, there were times when Rooney couldn't control the ball. That's my point, he was so bad he might as well have been an amateur. That's not an exaggeration; he was awful.Algarveaddick said:
No you "literally" can't , unless you are player in the top division of a major European or south American league, Jim...JiMMy 85 said:
I can think of three tournaments he's played in where I literally could not have done any worse than him.Callumcafc said:he's been a great player for England over his career
Look up the word "literal" in the dictionary, then change the wording of your moan accordingly.JiMMy 85 said:
Patronise all you like Algarve, I meant literally in its most literal sense; during 2006 and 2010, there were times when Rooney couldn't control the ball. That's my point, he was so bad he might as well have been an amateur. That's not an exaggeration; he was awful.Algarveaddick said:
No you "literally" can't , unless you are player in the top division of a major European or south American league, Jim...JiMMy 85 said:
I can think of three tournaments he's played in where I literally could not have done any worse than him.Callumcafc said:he's been a great player for England over his career
ˈlɪt(ə)rəli/Submit
adverb
in a literal manner or sense; exactly.
"the driver took it literally when asked to go straight over the roundabout"
synonyms: verbatim, word for word, line for line, letter for letter, to the letter; More
informal
used for emphasis while not being literally true.
"I have received literally thousands of letters"
That make you feel any better?
As for being condescending, Algarve, I believe, for want of a better phrase, you started it.1 -
No, I'm arguing the toss over a period that was mentioned.hudson-son-son said:
You are going back to his old statistics to back up him being in the team though, for me it really is as simple as on current form/his physical state this year:ricky_otto said:
You're going back to a period that was between 6-10 years ago. In those ; years he won the league 3 times, champions league, PFA player of the year scoring 95 goals in the process
He has 261 club goals of 558 games and 51 in 109 internationals. And countless assists. He also happens to me the captain of club and country.
Yes he has struggled at times in an England shirt - who hasn't?even the 'new bread' will have periods when it goes belly up.
Not bad for a player that couldn't control a ball.
- Not as good a striker as Kane
- Not as effective on the left wing as Sterling/Welbeck
- Not as dynamic a number 10 as Alli
Those are the 3 positions he would be played in and he isn't the best player at any of them. This isn't the same Rooney who was at Euro 2004 or even the Rooney who was part of one of the best attacking lines in Prem history with Tevez/Ronaldo. He unfortunately keeps getting hurt and has played a hell of a lot of football and it has taken a toll.
He can add to the squad but he shouldn't be forced into a side because he is Wayne Rooney if he is a square peg for our best chance of winning, which is having a side which is physically dominant and plays at a higher tempo than the rest of Europe can handle as we saw with Kane/Welbeck/Henderson/Alli against Germany.
Sterling - there isn't an argument for him - £49m wasn't he?
Agree he shouldn't play because of his name. You can't base anything on the back of 1 game against Germany.
I'm pleased that there is pressure on him, hopefully it will bring out the best in him. If it doesn't and others take their chance, doesn't deserve a place in the team - simple0 -
Just one thought when it comes to Tournaments: Alan Shearer... 9-Goals / Wayne Rooney... 6-Goals1
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In 3 tournaments compared to Rooney's 5.ForeverAddickted said:Just one thought when it comes to Tournaments: Alan Shearer... 9-Goals / Wayne Rooney... 6-Goals
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Okay then... Alan Shearer, three goals per tournament / Wayne Rooney, one goal per tournamenthudson-son-son said:
In 3 tournaments compared to Rooney's 5.ForeverAddickted said:Just one thought when it comes to Tournaments: Alan Shearer... 9-Goals / Wayne Rooney... 6-Goals
Still not much difference... Plus you might as well call it four tournaments as he barely played in Euro 2012 or the 2006 World Cup0 -
What argument for Sterling?ricky_otto said:No, I'm arguing the toss over a period that was mentioned.
Sterling - there isn't an argument for him - £49m wasn't he?
Agree he shouldn't play because of his name. You can't base anything on the back of 1 game against Germany.
I'm pleased that there is pressure on him, hopefully it will bring out the best in him. If it doesn't and others take their chance, doesn't deserve a place in the team - simple
I'm not saying we should just start the 11 that played against Germany in the first game at the Euros because of one good result but a competitively played game against the sort of side we always struggle against in a Quarter Final is a better barometer for success than what we have done against San Marino/Estonia in qualifying. The Switzerland games from qualifying are really the only one comparable to any sort of side we may face this Summer.
However what I saw from the Germany game was that one advantage we have over other teams is they way Spurs/Leicester have played with incredible pressing/work rate and it was a team designed to do that, which I don't think Rooney fits into other than perhaps coming on in a tight game for 20/30 mins. Current Wayne Rooney is best in a slower possession based team and I don't think England can do that.0 -
Or, to put it another way:
Shearer: 9 goals in 12 games
Rooney : 6 Goals in 16 games
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The one I decided to make up (: I mis read you post.hudson-son-son said:
What argument for Sterling?ricky_otto said:No, I'm arguing the toss over a period that was mentioned.
Sterling - there isn't an argument for him - £49m wasn't he?
Agree he shouldn't play because of his name. You can't base anything on the back of 1 game against Germany.
I'm pleased that there is pressure on him, hopefully it will bring out the best in him. If it doesn't and others take their chance, doesn't deserve a place in the team - simple
I'm not saying we should just start the 11 that played against Germany in the first game at the Euros because of one good result but a competitively played game against the sort of side we always struggle against in a Quarter Final is a better barometer for success than what we have done against San Marino/Estonia in qualifying. The Switzerland games from qualifying are really the only one comparable to any sort of side we may face this Summer.
However what I saw from the Germany game was that one advantage we have over other teams is they way Spurs/Leicester have played with incredible pressing/work rate and it was a team designed to do that, which I don't think Rooney fits into other than perhaps coming on in a tight game for 20/30 mins. Current Wayne Rooney is best in a slower possession based team and I don't think England can do that.
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Don't forget 3 of the shearer goals were penalties so they don't count (:ForeverAddickted said:
Okay then... Alan Shearer, three goals per tournament / Wayne Rooney, one goal per tournamenthudson-son-son said:
In 3 tournaments compared to Rooney's 5.ForeverAddickted said:Just one thought when it comes to Tournaments: Alan Shearer... 9-Goals / Wayne Rooney... 6-Goals
Still not much difference... Plus you might as well call it four tournaments as he barely played in Euro 2012 or the 2006 World Cup1 -
Says the guy who kicked off over the use of the word literally!Algarveaddick said:Exactly.
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1 nil down with 15 minutes to play, we need a goal, things arent quite coming off for Kane/Vardy/Barkley/Ali, Roy turns to his bench. He's got Wayne Rooney or Raheem Sterling/Theo Walcott sitting there itching to get on.
We need a bit of magic, who do you put on?0 -
Phil Jagielka!!ValleyGary said:1 nil down with 15 minutes to play, we need a goal, things are quite coming off for Kane/Vardy/Barkley/Ali, Roy turns to his bench. He's got Wayne Rooney or Raheem Sterling/Theo Walcott sitting there itching to get on.
We need a bit of magic, who do you put on?3 -
Hahaha - I was literally going to post the same thing.ForeverAddickted said:
Phil Jagielka!!ValleyGary said:1 nil down with 15 minutes to play, we need a goal, things are quite coming off for Kane/Vardy/Barkley/Ali, Roy turns to his bench. He's got Wayne Rooney or Raheem Sterling/Theo Walcott sitting there itching to get on.
We need a bit of magic, who do you put on?1 -
Sorry @ValleyGary you asked for it...!!0
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I forgot we had the chuckle brothers on here!
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Talking of subs Tom Heaton - will he ever play get in the pitch? 6th time as an unused sub last night. Git me thinking who is the most unused sub for England? @ForeverAddickted this is one for you. I'm far to busy to look it up.0
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I agree with ValleyGary, I would have Rooney off the bench. I just wouldn't have him in the first 11.ForeverAddickted said:Sorry @ValleyGary you asked for it...!!
(PS Rooney played in four out of five games in the 2006 WC, starting three of them. He just played so badly it's an easy to assume he wasn't playing at all)0 - Sponsored links:
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Johnnie Jackson obviouslyValleyGary said:1 nil down with 15 minutes to play, we need a goal, things arent quite coming off for Kane/Vardy/Barkley/Ali, Roy turns to his bench. He's got Wayne Rooney or Raheem Sterling/Theo Walcott sitting there itching to get on.
We need a bit of magic, who do you put on?
I guess it would depend on the opposition and how they were playing. You might want a bit of trickery to break through the defence, which would be more of a Sterling situation, or you might want to lump the ball in the box, and create a bit of aerial chaos, in which case you'd probably want to send Andy Carroll on!0 -
Christ knows... Sounds too much effort Barry and I've got an insightful preview to create and need to practice my finger puppet routine!!ricky_otto said:Talking of subs Tom Heaton - will he ever play get in the pitch? 6th time as an unused sub last night. Git me thinking who is the most unused sub for England? @ForeverAddickted this is one for you. I'm far to busy to look it up.
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No worries Paul. Please put us down to lose this week ffs. I'm getting bored of your positive predictions.ForeverAddickted said:
Christ knows... Sounds too much effort Barry and I've got an insightful preview to create and need to practice my finger puppet routine!!ricky_otto said:Talking of subs Tom Heaton - will he ever play get in the pitch? 6th time as an unused sub last night. Git me thinking who is the most unused sub for England? @ForeverAddickted this is one for you. I'm far to busy to look it up.
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See, at that point if it's not working I'd go full Andy. If the twinkle-toed counter-attacking passing game isn't getting behind the opposition defence I'd chuck on Andy Carroll and get the full backs lumping the ball into the box. Imagine as a defender you spend 75 minutes tracking Vardy or Sturridge's movement and not allowing any space in behind, and then some ponytailed nutcase slams into you at 50mph. The thumping header he'd score right before he pulled up lame would be glorious.ValleyGary said:1 nil down with 15 minutes to play, we need a goal, things arent quite coming off for Kane/Vardy/Barkley/Ali, Roy turns to his bench. He's got Wayne Rooney or Raheem Sterling/Theo Walcott sitting there itching to get on.
We need a bit of magic, who do you put on?7 -
Alright, wind your neck in Algarve. I'm just trying to have reasoned debate, it's nice to be able to talk football on here for a change instead of endless new threads about RD & KM. I've already said I'd take Rooney in the squad but not start him in the first game and I don't think you'll find many posts in my history where I just whinge for the sake of it, quite the opposite actually.Algarveaddick said:
Blimey I thought my memory was bad, the run and cross for Wellbeck in Brazil 14 wasn't too shabby - queue the "But we lost so it didn't matter" whingers, and try Slovenia in June last year EA. Don't tell me - "we should have won that anyway...", "It was a soft group..." "That doesn't count as a big game"... Blah, blah fucking blah. Like Gary said, happiest when you are moaning.Exiled_Addick said:
When was the last time he produced a 'moment' in a big game, for club or country?MuttleyCAFC said:He has qulaity and teh sort of qulaity that makes a difference at the highest level
I'm struggling to think of anything since that overhead kick vs Man City and that was ages ago.
I keep hearing people talk about Rooney's class, well I don't think it's unreasonable to ask his flag wavers to back that up with examples. The two you give are good bits of play, but Alli or Barkley, for example, are both more than good enough to produce that cross youtube.com/watch?v=dQXgUS7xsC0&t=8m5s
The goal vs Slovenia was a decent finish, but again nothing that I wouldn't expect Vardy or Kane to put away. The real off your seat wow moment in that game was from Wilshire youtube.com/watch?v=3RoLnks4umc&t=2m40s
Those wow moments are the sort of thing I want to see more of from Rooney if we're going to shoe horn him into the team and take the negatives of his presence like slowing down the play. He's probably our best direct free kick taker, but personally I'm of the opinion that while he is still very worthwhile having in the squad, he doesn't produce enough of those magic moments anymore to justify his reputation as one England's only top quality players. He's still a good player but he hasn't done anything really exceptional for a fair while now and because of that he doesn't deserve a specialist status in the squad, imho.
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Like I said, I give in, he's shit.0
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Yes because when I say "I'd take Rooney in the squad", or "he is still very worthwhile having in the squad", or "He's still a good player", those are clear examples of me trying to get you to say Rooney is shit.Algarveaddick said:Like I said, I give in, he's shit.
I give in trying to have a sensible conversation on here.0
