Riga *Might* be coming back
Comments
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Yes, this recycling of head coaches is ridiculous, but Riga is probably the best we can expect at the moment. Relegation would be a disaster, and make finding a new owner much harderCovered End said:
I agree. However, I would prefer that we aren't relegated. Sheff U have been down there for years now.john3 said:
Disagree ,if Riga comes in and we survive the drop that will only strengthen the current boards position to stay and say that their appointment was right and what are we complaining about. I think also that the current momentum of demonstration may loose weight as we accept the new status quo,then a few months into the new season the same oldCovered End said:
I think you're confusing 2 issues here.john3 said:I went to the demonstrations both before and after the match against Forest to make my presence and feelings known, i stood there and joined in the singing not for a compromise but to join with the Charlton family in attempting to get this board and its manager out.
Why on earth should we settle for anything less;i do not believe that by the board appointing Riga if it is true should be acceptable to us,i think it is an insult [not the man himself,he's being used to appease the "customers"] .
Are we really going to accept this? keep standing,keep the faith and WE WILL SEE THIS THROUGH,NO COMPROMISE!
You are allowed to have a good coach and still want the owners out.
I'm happy with Riga, but still want the owners out.
chestnut!!
If we go down, we too may take years to come back, or we might not even come back if Fraeye stays in charge.
Fraeye can't pick a team, he has no concept of tactics and is utterly utterly clueless.
Riga now or Fraeye, it's a no brainer for me.1 -
Wasn't that after Murray tried to force him to work with Andrew Mills? I don't blame him.Covered End said:
Ah yes, the Billy Davies that agreed to take over from Curbs in the evening and when Murray phoned The Marriott in the morning, had gone back to Scotland, without the manners to say anything and never did.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
They are men of sufficient dignity and integrity that would not work under these mugs. That's why they limit their scope of puppets who are too spineless to speak out about how devoid of a clue their bosses are when it comes to football.meldrew66 said:Sorry, but I simply can't accept another Belgian. I also don't believe in 'going back' whether that is Riga or even Powelly. If the fans are accepting of Riga because of his 'success' last time then I worry that KM will state (if/when he fails) that the fans wanted him and that it vindicates the club's strategy regarding Belgians. Please, let's not play into their hands. We need an experienced, credible, non-Belgian ex-championship (or better) British manager. Gimme a Steve Clarke, Billy Davis etc. I just don't think that is on heir radar. Who follows Riga? Peters? It's a bloody farce. When will the madness end?
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Riga next maybe - harder job than last time. Fraeye won't be going anywhere and we will be going down. Perhaps they have been looking at other options but who is going to agree to be another 'interim' coach? Who in their right minds wants to look Mr Roland Déjavûlet?0
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Given the fact Riga averaged 1.5 points per game while in charge playing pretty much twice a week that equates to 69 pts over a 46 game season. Almost play offs form and that was with a squad worse than the one we have now (when fully fit)mogodonman said:It shows how wretchedly low our expectations have become under this regime that Jose Riga being appointed (if he is) is seen as cause for celebration.
It's not about low expectations, most of it frankly is having someone with credentials in charge and not Fraeye. The fact Riga managed us before and knows a lot of the squad is an added bonus.1 -
We are going to go down with a whimper, we have no one with any balls in the side, and no one with the ability to even win a game let alone a run that will see us clear...
These morons have mortgaged our future on a half baked plan that clearly had no chance of succeeding in the first place.
Money talks and bullshit walks to quote Spinal Tap...0 -
Riga would accept that he has to use the players he has in the squad provided by the regime. He did it before when he replaced SCP. BP GL & KF complied with this model. For RD and his cronies KM RM , this is probably the only person that suits the regime. Let's hope we survive the drop in the mean time not let this lot off the hook. They are not fit to run a restaurant or cinema let alone a CAFC0
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Les Reed, not Mills as such.The Red Robin said:
Wasn't that after Murray tried to force him to work with Andrew Mills? I don't blame him.Covered End said:
Ah yes, the Billy Davies that agreed to take over from Curbs in the evening and when Murray phoned The Marriott in the morning, had gone back to Scotland, without the manners to say anything and never did.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
They are men of sufficient dignity and integrity that would not work under these mugs. That's why they limit their scope of puppets who are too spineless to speak out about how devoid of a clue their bosses are when it comes to football.meldrew66 said:Sorry, but I simply can't accept another Belgian. I also don't believe in 'going back' whether that is Riga or even Powelly. If the fans are accepting of Riga because of his 'success' last time then I worry that KM will state (if/when he fails) that the fans wanted him and that it vindicates the club's strategy regarding Belgians. Please, let's not play into their hands. We need an experienced, credible, non-Belgian ex-championship (or better) British manager. Gimme a Steve Clarke, Billy Davis etc. I just don't think that is on heir radar. Who follows Riga? Peters? It's a bloody farce. When will the madness end?
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I don't see too much celebration. It seems to me that most people realise that RD is only going to appoint his own men which means who we want isn't a consideration. Better Riga than Fraeye or someone equally inept. But it doesn't mean all is forgiven.mogodonman said:It shows how wretchedly low our expectations have become under this regime that Jose Riga being appointed (if he is) is seen as cause for celebration.
I will be hugely pissed off if Fraeye stays in some capacity though. We don't need him hanging around, he has nothing to offer us.3 -
Going to league one is not a way to get rid of RD,demonstrating in the right and effective way might get rid of him;having a VOICE is all we've got and i think everyone who cares should use it before we go down to league one.KINSELLA7 said:By "ranting" I was referring to some comments on this site, not the demonstrations. I was not there as I live in Stourbridge West Midlands and only get to a few games every season. However I have supported Charlton since 1946 when I was 8 and lived in Wolfe Crescent overlooking the Valley. My father worked at Charlton and I am stuck with supporting them!
If I had gone I would not have supported the demonstration, simply because I do not believe that it or other similar protests will have any chance of removing the owners or the CEO. I placed a number of comments saying basically that people like Roland are totally immune to and are totally unaffected by such acts. He will not even be made to blink by them. In fact he may even enjoy being able to ignore them. I have said that it would take something extreme like an extended boycott, but accepted that this would be difficult to put into effect.
I have also said that the aim should be more achievable and limited, firstly to
appoint a decent manager. Riga is not ideal, in that he is seen as a Roland man. although I personally think that there is more to him than that. If he is appointed then, sure, keep your opinions about the management and how the club is (or isn't run) but for the moment support him and the team to avoid relegation. To think that going to League One is a way of getting rid of Roland and moving on to better things is, in my opinion, flawed and dangerous
The fans that formed a party in 92 to get us back to the valley used their voices and presence to make the difference;it worked;i wont sit back and be complacent about this great club going down the tubes.
I do not want us relegated and there are no guarantees that JR will keep us up either; i want the club to have direction whatever league we end up in because without that proper direction we are currently in freefall.
I appreciate and respect your support of the club since 1946 thats fantastic i hope that you would appreciate all those fans that are using their voices to push for change in getting this board out.3 -
The problem, as I see it, is the significant difference in world views between us, the fans, customers, clients, whatever, and RD, the owner, the industrial genius, the amazing visionary of a new way of football, or whatever.
Because we are there watching the team week by week, feeling attachment, long history of support, etc. we want success. Success in football is very simple. Be entertaining, win enough to not get relegated and occasionally do something to add excitement to the season. Be in a fight for the play offs, or winning the league, or a cup run. And if we find ourselves in a relegation fight, to see a team which is fighting and trying to avoid the drop. To do this you need a team of players who can play at the right level and a management team who engage with the fans, look like they are trying and understand the league in which the club is playing. Fund it in a way that gives hope of success, but not to the extent that it will break the club. This is the model followed by virtually every side in the country. The ones that have tried a different model are more often than not, the ones that have failed.
RD's world view is that he is an industrial visionary that can bring about a new way of doing things. He apparently wrote a book in the 90's which, ironically, was about getting greater transparency in the world of economics and politics. This led to him forming his own political party to try to bring about his vision i a political sphere. He has decided that he can break the current football economics model. Invest in infrastructure to train young players to bring them up to standard, put them in the first team and then sell them at a profit. Alongside this, make the fans into 'customers' by giving them a wider match day (and possibly mid week) experience so the customers come for that experience as much as for the football. It wouldn't surprise me if he had plans of building shops, cinemas and restaurants alongside the ground to make football just a small part of what might happen at the Valley, thus reducing the risk.
We are also only a small part of his empire. His main business is in electronics and will, no doubt, take up most of his time. We are just a subsidiary that he has invested in for him to try out his ideas about football. He has put in place his team to run it. I would imagine that in his mind, they are doing a reasonable job, reducing the losses, adding in new experiences for the customer, and so on. He isn't that bothered how the current fans think because they don't fit into his new world of football. He only comes to the Valley for 2 or 3 hours mid week, every few weeks, for business meetings. He isn't interested particularly with the football or our history and what happens on match days. That is for KM and team to manage and provide him with results.
So the changing of the head coach (who is probably just a junior divisional manager in RD's mind) is being delivered in the same way you get in large companies. Divisional managers are moved from area to area to meet certain targets, but coming from an internal group who are known to the senior management team. Bringing people from outside is risky at that level, so go with what you know.
That is what we are getting. Junior managers, known to RD, delivering against short term goals and whilst RD owns the club I can't see any change to this. KM is delivering against the targets he has set her and probably seen as a success by RD. It wouldn't bother him that we see her as out of her depth, as our view of what a football club isn't his and isn't important. RM is there to keep the 'customers' happy.
We can all see how flawed the RD model is in the long term. It makes no economic sense and leads to a reducing of value year on year because success in footballing terms will be almost impossible, and football success is what drives increasing value in football clubs in the UK. But with RD we will never have a side which is capable of winning anything. Fans, as we know them, will drift away. Against that there is no culture in the UK of football clubs being anything other than places to see football matches. Having lots of other 'experiences' are just not part of the way we do things. So the idea of having 'customers' to enjoy a wider match day experience is mad.
But I suspect none of that matters to RD. He wants to prove he is right and he can afford to lose £40m. If it goes really badly he still has high value real estate to do something with. He is playing with us in a way that is foreign to our way of thinking because we see the club as a part of the community and there for the fans. He sees us as a vehicle to change the way football runs. And it is unlikely that he will attempt to understand us because our world view does not fit with what he is trying to do.
Personally, I don't think it matters who our manager is, because the end result will be the same, the gradual erosion of the club. My hope is that RD will get bored with this project and want out. The danger then, of course, is how he disposes of us. Will he sell a going concern or asset strip?21 - Sponsored links:
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Totally don't get this. When Riga was appointed last time around we were bottom of the league. The team had just produced one of the all time gutless performances at Sheffield United and just had one of our club legends dismissed as manager. We were as down and despondent as you can get.mogodonman said:It shows how wretchedly low our expectations have become under this regime that Jose Riga being appointed (if he is) is seen as cause for celebration.
Against this background Riga remained dignified and won the players and fans over whilst getting the team performing well enough to climb out of the relegation places.
When he was not given the job full time I think I'm right in saying most fans were surprised and disapointed.
I'm as glad he's coming back as us getting most of the British managers mentioned on these pages.
Welcome back Jose.
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I seem to recall that Richard Murray's first move post-Curbs was to appoint Andrew Mills as some type of director of football / head of recruitment, a player was signed (can't remember who... Possibly Corey Gibbs?) and then the rumours surfaced that Billy Davies reacted badly to Andrew Mills being the final voice in transfers.Covered End said:
Les Reed, not Mills as such.
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If I was Riga I'd be thinking f*ck off and do one. You took this away from me don't come crawling back.
Riga has been on the payroll at network club since though so he will probably accept I don't know I'm getting fed up with it all now.1 -
Another identikit Belgian takes the stand for a four month stint before the whole carousel revolves around again. Riga is probably about the best we can hope for all the time the Staprix regime hold power. We're not going to have an English manager because Two Shats is not prepared to pay for one, he can't see further than his own nose and the people that he's already familiar with, and no decent manager would want to work under this crazy regime. I wish Riga well and (assuming he does get the job) hope he can keep us up. At least things will be interesting, as relegation wouldn't be the foregone conclusion that it would with non-league non-starter Fraeye. It's not an inspiring appointment though and the fight needs to go on to rid our club of Douchbag and the big nosed executivette.
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Mills was in situ with Curbs and Curbs says he had no problem with that. He had a silly title - general manager - but was essentially a gofer. He did not make the decisions.Mackle said:
I seem to recall that Richard Murray's first move post-Curbs was to appoint Andrew Mills as some type of director of football / head of recruitment, a player was signed (can't remember who... Possibly Corey Gibbs?) and then the rumours surfaced that Billy Davies reacted badly to Andrew Mills being the final voice in transfers.Covered End said:
Les Reed, not Mills as such.
That is a separate issue from the imposition of a coaching set-up on Dowie, which was to keep out his brother, but was IMO not a reasonable constraint in that any incoming manager should have appointed their own team. With Davies I understand the situation was less clear cut.2 -
What we need is a top performing Premeirship manager. Someone so good they are being considered as the next England manager. So Pardew or Riga?2
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I make you right on a lot of this, sadly. I've highlighted a couple of things that make me wonder if its entirely accurate regarding the success of KM and RM's roles. For his plan to be successful, he needs his 'customers'. Given the protests, and the reaction of the fans to the recent RM statement, RD can't possibly think that KM/RM are overseeing a success in terms of a vision he described in his very first interview as the fans coming together at the ground and finding a greater enjoyment. There are substantially fewer fans in the ground as a result of his ownership and his appointments.henrythecat said:The problem, as I see it, is the significant difference in world views between us, the fans, customers, clients, whatever, and RD, the owner, the industrial genius, the amazing visionary of a new way of football, or whatever.
Because we are there watching the team week by week, feeling attachment, long history of support, etc. we want success. Success in football is very simple. Be entertaining, win enough to not get relegated and occasionally do something to add excitement to the season. Be in a fight for the play offs, or winning the league, or a cup run. And if we find ourselves in a relegation fight, to see a team which is fighting and trying to avoid the drop. To do this you need a team of players who can play at the right level and a management team who engage with the fans, look like they are trying and understand the league in which the club is playing. Fund it in a way that gives hope of success, but not to the extent that it will break the club. This is the model followed by virtually every side in the country. The ones that have tried a different model are more often than not, the ones that have failed.
RD's world view is that he is an industrial visionary that can bring about a new way of doing things. He apparently wrote a book in the 90's which, ironically, was about getting greater transparency in the world of economics and politics. This led to him forming his own political party to try to bring about his vision i a political sphere. He has decided that he can break the current football economics model. Invest in infrastructure to train young players to bring them up to standard, put them in the first team and then sell them at a profit. Alongside this, make the fans into 'customers' by giving them a wider match day (and possibly mid week) experience so the customers come for that experience as much as for the football. It wouldn't surprise me if he had plans of building shops, cinemas and restaurants alongside the ground to make football just a small part of what might happen at the Valley, thus reducing the risk.
We are also only a small part of his empire. His main business is in electronics and will, no doubt, take up most of his time. We are just a subsidiary that he has invested in for him to try out his ideas about football. He has put in place his team to run it. I would imagine that in his mind, they are doing a reasonable job, reducing the losses, adding in new experiences for the customer, and so on. He isn't that bothered how the current fans think because they don't fit into his new world of football. He only comes to the Valley for 2 or 3 hours mid week, every few weeks, for business meetings. He isn't interested particularly with the football or our history and what happens on match days. That is for KM and team to manage and provide him with results.
So the changing of the head coach (who is probably just a junior divisional manager in RD's mind) is being delivered in the same way you get in large companies. Divisional managers are moved from area to area to meet certain targets, but coming from an internal group who are known to the senior management team. Bringing people from outside is risky at that level, so go with what you know.
That is what we are getting. Junior managers, known to RD, delivering against short term goals and whilst RD owns the club I can't see any change to this. KM is delivering against the targets he has set her and probably seen as a success by RD. It wouldn't bother him that we see her as out of her depth, as our view of what a football club isn't his and isn't important. RM is there to keep the 'customers' happy.
We can all see how flawed the RD model is in the long term. It makes no economic sense and leads to a reducing of value year on year because success in footballing terms will be almost impossible, and football success is what drives increasing value in football clubs in the UK. But with RD we will never have a side which is capable of winning anything. Fans, as we know them, will drift away. Against that there is no culture in the UK of football clubs being anything other than places to see football matches. Having lots of other 'experiences' are just not part of the way we do things. So the idea of having 'customers' to enjoy a wider match day experience is mad.
But I suspect none of that matters to RD. He wants to prove he is right and he can afford to lose £40m. If it goes really badly he still has high value real estate to do something with. He is playing with us in a way that is foreign to our way of thinking because we see the club as a part of the community and there for the fans. He sees us as a vehicle to change the way football runs. And it is unlikely that he will attempt to understand us because our world view does not fit with what he is trying to do.
Personally, I don't think it matters who our manager is, because the end result will be the same, the gradual erosion of the club. My hope is that RD will get bored with this project and want out. The danger then, of course, is how he disposes of us. Will he sell a going concern or asset strip?
Last year I was led to understand from a now-departed employee that KM had been targeted with season ticket sales of 15,000 in her second year. Well that didn't happen, and 3000 are missing at every game. If 10,200 is an improvement on last year, as the panel at the fans' meeting insisted upon, then the previous year's figures were even shorter of that target (and they'd given some misleading information on them at the time). 10% were indicated to be new season ticket holders, although I would hazard a guess that the majority of those were in the relatively disposable £175 bracket.
RD will never change the way football runs without demonstrating it can be successful at his own football club - surely even he can see that? He will never be influential as a failure. We were seen as the model club in the 2000s because Murray-Varney-Curbs oversaw a successful club. FFP might have been a good justification for a new model, but that's gone now so RD has to think differently. Surely!
The irony of all of this is that he could make us successful by setting a football strategy appropriate to the British game and the Championship, targeting Premiership football within 5 years, choosing a manager to drive it all - and still adopt the Academy as a feeder to the first team and occasional player sales - at peak value - offsetting losses. Investment better focused wouldn't need to cost a lot more, and may have zero negative impact to the bottom line - a more competitive team would be the biggest factor in reversing the decline in attendances and a better feeling among the 'customers' would improve incidental revenue streams; plus a better performing team may attract better tv coverage, sponsor income etc. No guarantees of course, but let's face it - what he's doing right now is utter shite. It could hardly be worse.15 -
It'll be better than what we have at the moment and he's probably the closest to a proper manager that RD will consider, though I'm firmly in the complete change is necessary camp.
Support the team and the new manager, assuming it happens, not the regime.1 -
Assuming Riga is appointed after a lacklustre cup defeat and with us at risk of the drop to L1, can we all apply for a refund for all tickets/burgers/travel/superstore expenses etc. incurred since March 11 2014 when Chris Powell was sacked and Riga appointed under the same circumstances?
The entire period has clearly been a complete waste of everyone's time and money and we are back exactly where we started when Roly pitched up but with a significantly weaker squad of players.
If that counts as business progress after two years then I want a job in Roly's empire as clearly idiots are welcome.11 -
If Riga is to come back until the end of the season who will we be lumbered with next season probably yet another Belgian Burke I guess0
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Leaking that Riga may be back may have been planted as a trial balloon?
Would the reaction be positive?
What if Fraeye stays as Riga's No. 2?
Bringing back Riga, sacked from three jobs in the past season and a half, is far from a masterstroke.
Riga is better than Fraeye. But who isn't?3 -
They could appoint a four ball management team of Curbishley , SCP , Lennie and the ghost of Jimmy Seed and I would still not properly enjoy the success that would follow with these ignorant Stayingpricks in charge of our club
I hate them with a (footballing) passion , in fact I'm saying the impossible , they are up there with the scum in my (footballing) hate department , there are no words that show my footballing (disclaimer to real life for PL54 cos we do all understand other things are more important) disgust for what they have presided over at our club .
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But there doing the right things by spending within there means and sticking with an almost outdated FFP regulation while improving the academy.oohaahmortimer said:They could appoint a four ball management team of Curbishley , SCP , Lennie and the ghost of Jimmy Seed and I would still not properly enjoy the success that would follow with these ignorant Stayingpricks in charge of our club
I hate them with a (footballing) passion , in fact I'm saying the impossible , they are up there with the scum in my (footballing) hate department , there are no words that show my footballing (disclaimer to real life for PL54 cos we do all understand other things are more important) disgust for what they have presided over at our club .
That doesn't excite you?3 -
On balance I think you're right right. moral on the other hand I would guess is a hell of a lot worse.cafcnick1992 said:I disagree that the squad is weaker than Riga's last stint
Riga or whoever should come in, has got a massive job in scrapping the players off the floor. I dread to think what sort of state the players are in after having 3 months (?) of working under Carol.
It will take 4 / 5 games for any new manager to get get things going again, we could be well adrift by then and playing catch up all the time.
Well done Katrien and Roland, your pigheadedness has shone through yet again. It was quite apparent that Carol was a total clown weeks ago, yet they decide (if they do indeed do it) to change now.
Riga isn't the man they want, but he is the only one amidst this nonsensical circus that they can possibly go for. No self respecting manager of note from the outside would even consider working for them.
The embarrassing thing is it's probably got nothing to do with the football. a couple of protests and some media attention has got their attention, so they think a change of manager will placate the fans. They could bring in Guardiola for all I care - they would still be a par if complete and utter arseholes. What needs to happen is for the pair of them to piss off back to the hole they climbed out of.4 -
Final paragraph was my take on it when Riga was outed.Covered End said:
No one has said he wasn't deemed good enough before.sralan said:If Riga wasn't deemed good enough before, then why bring him back? Couldn't make it up................................................... oh hang on, we're owned and staffed by Belgian tossers with blinkers on.
Yes, they didn't extend his contract and brought Peeters in, but it couldn't have been because he wasn't deemed good enough.
It was more likely because he wasn't a yes man, cost more than Peeters or Peeters had already been agreed as the new manager after Powell, but couldn't start until the summer.
How can it be otherwise, Riga kept us up and should have been retained.2 -
I see four defeats with a managerial change.Godstone said:Come on everybody...WE'RE DESPERATE. Look at the next 4 games - I see 4 defeats unless we have a managerial change now'ish.
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Riga had a squad with probably less talent in 2014 but that squad did have great desire and spirit. Given how many games we played, he probably did very little coaching . We shall see !1
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This is absolute bonkers the man's not right in the head someone wheel him to the nut house please1
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Murray we have made mistakes yes and your not learning by them ffs0
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open to the interpretation of the forumKINSELLA7 said:I was obviously agreeing with Covered End and not Cabbles!
It does just emphasise how shit their ownership has been. We're in a worst position than we were when they arrived (on the pitch) and they've spent 9m plus on the team and are having to go back for the manager who came in then, but was obviously not deemed suitable to move the club forward. It's because our clueless lemons of owners haven't got an idea that they are scrabbling round desperate to look like they are doing something, when in reality they know nothing.
If Riga isn't a success who is left in RD's basement to try his luck.
Utter shambles
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