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Addicks Players - The Valiant 1016 - V1015 James BREE, V1016 Reece BURKE (p44)

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  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,954
    cafcfan said:

    Oggy Red said:

    Interesting to see we signed 100 players in our first 5 years as a League club.

    But presumably some of those players would already have been at the club in the preceding Southern League season so would already have been registered with the club?

    Including Seth Plum.

    Good point though, as we weren't starting from scratch but accepted as a new League club - as were many others that year (and the season before), so players were still essentially of similar standard.

    Clubs in those days didn't normally have the same turnover in players each season, as has become common practice in recent years.

    But of course, it was the time of the maximum wage. There was no Bosman, either.

    But after only 5 years to sign our first 100 players, it took a further 12 years to sign our next 100 - and by then we were establishing ourselves as a top flight club.











  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    One theory is that many players returned from WW1 less fit than anticipated due to gas and the time away.

    So you see a bigger turnover of players with younger players coming in.

    Also some of the Non-League players may not have been up to scratch.
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,954
    edited March 2015
    Henry Irving said:

    One theory is that many players returned from WW1 less fit than anticipated due to gas and the time away.

    So you see a bigger turnover of players with younger players coming in.

    Also some of the Non-League players may not have been up to scratch.

    All good points, Henry.

    But one thing I was trying to say ......... the new Third Division, over 2 consecutive seasons (in reality around 12 months), was largely made up of most of the then Southern League clubs - therefore many of those clubs' existing players would be retained, at least for their Third Division debut season?



    Edit: Overlooked giving cafcfan the credit for the original point.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,021
    cafcfan said:

    Oggy Red said:

    Interesting to see we signed 100 players in our first 5 years as a League club.

    But presumably some of those players would already have been at the club in the preceding Southern League season so would already have been registered with the club?
    That's absolutely correct, and I am actually in the process of compiling a list of pre-league players. However, I fear it will never be definitive because the early records are so thin and few between. For that reason I think we need a cut-off point for numbering purposes and the start of league football seems as sensible a place as any.
  • happyvalley
    happyvalley Posts: 8,996
    In yesterdays programme it named John Saunders the 300th Addick It was April 1963, now I was watching the lads back then & can not recall him at all. I remember Ron Saunders but I think he joined a couple of seasons later. Can anyone enlighten me please?
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    John Saunders was a Plumstead boy who played just 1 game in the 62/63 season v Middlesbrough.

    He was a forward but only 5' 4" so would fail the CL height test.

    Ron Saunders played 64 games between 65 to 67 and scored 28 goals.

    He went on to be a very successful manager most famously with Villa where he won the league and built the team that won the European Cup.
  • happyvalley
    happyvalley Posts: 8,996
    Thanks Henry.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,021
    It's not surprising that you can't remember John Saunders. An outside right, he came through the junior ranks to play one first team match, an away defeat to Middlesbrough in April 1963. Whatever the reasons he never played league football again. Not for Charlton or anyone else.

    Ron Sanders V310 came a couple of years later making his Charlton Debut in August 1965. Ron, a Centre Forward, was an establish professional in the twilight of his playing days when he came to Charlton having already represented Everton, Gillingham, Portsmouth and Watford before playing for the Addicks. He scored 24 goals in 65 appearances for us before hanging up his boots. In wider football circles he is probably more famous for his 30 year management career, including eight seasons at Aston Villa where he won the League.
  • LenGlover
    LenGlover Posts: 31,651
    edited March 2015
    happyvalley said:

    In yesterdays programme it named John Saunders the 300th Addick It was April 1963, now I was watching the lads back then & can not recall him at all. I remember Ron Saunders but I think he joined a couple of seasons later. Can anyone enlighten me please?

    Mike Bailey got injured and was replaced in the next match by Brian Ord who in turn also got injured and was thus replaced by Saunders for his one match which happened to be number 300.

    Although his real name was (is) John Saunders I remember him being referred to as Fred.
  • Addickted
    Addickted Posts: 19,456
    I love this thread.
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  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,198
    Stig said:

    cafcfan said:

    Oggy Red said:

    Interesting to see we signed 100 players in our first 5 years as a League club.

    But presumably some of those players would already have been at the club in the preceding Southern League season so would already have been registered with the club?
    That's absolutely correct, and I am actually in the process of compiling a list of pre-league players. However, I fear it will never be definitive because the early records are so thin and few between. For that reason I think we need a cut-off point for numbering purposes and the start of league football seems as sensible a place as any.
    Yes, I think you're right about a cut-off point. I was merely pointing out that the turnover rate would have been distorted.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    edited May 2015
    So if my quick check is correct there were 21 Débuts in the 2014/15 season of whom

    2 came from the youth team (JG & KAG)

    2 were loan from the network (YB & FB)

    2 were on loan from the Prem (FC & MV)

    4 signed on a short term contracts (OO, RJ, CE & AD)

    11 signed on permanent contracts of at least one year (GT, SH, ABA, JBG, FM, IV, CLP, NE) of whom 4 were from the network (GT, MD, TBH, TWWW)


    Alou Diarra was the last débutante and is V797

    The V is for Valiant and is a nod to Colin Cameron and his book The Valiant 500 from which Stig and I's work is based.
  • stackitsteve
    stackitsteve Posts: 12,102
    edited May 2015
    Dmitrovic?
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    stackitsteve said:

    Dmitrovic?


    In the 11 perms but I'd transposed it to MD. Now changed, thanks
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    image

    Stig gets ready to award the V numbers to the new players
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    killerandflash said:

    Henry Irving said:

    Fry
    Anyinsah
    Bothroyd
    M Bent
    Cameron Stewart
    And now Eagles makes 6

    Sorry about that.

    I hope Chris Eagles has a better and longer Charlton career than those 5!
    You hoped wrong. : - )

    It seems scoring off the bench is a kiss of death/early release.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    21 debuts last season

    of those how many are still with us?

    2 came from the youth team (JG & KAG)

    2 were loan from the network (YB & FB)

    2 were on loan from the Prem (FC & MV)

    4 signed on a short term contracts (OO, RJ, CE & AD)

    11 signed on permanent contracts of at least one year (GT, SH, ABA, JBG, FM, IV, CLP, NE) of whom 4 were from the network (GT, MD, TBH, TWWW)

    Just 8

    KAG
    Hendo
    Bikey
    JBG
    Moussa
    Igor
    Watt
    Diarra

  • shirty5
    shirty5 Posts: 19,218
    Henry Irving said:

    image

    Stig gets ready to award the V numbers to the new players

    Good work. Always nice to see one of my suggestions being taken forward by someone.
  • Carl Leaburn
    Carl Leaburn Posts: 1,117
    With the list about to grow bigger, I have started work on a section of my programme website detailing programmes from players debuts. It is very much work in progress but here is how it is going so far.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/addicks7-6/collections/72157654439098353/

    Stig's list of debuts has been invaluable for this project.

    If you want to see more Charlton programmes visit

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/addicks7-6/sets/
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,021
    Possibility of ten debutants today.

    https://staddickstics.wordpress.com/2015/08/08/possible-charlton-debuts-today/
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  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    Excellent site there.

    Hope you have your algorithms and charts ready to allocate the new V numbers to the right players.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,021
    Cheers Henry.

    Oh yes, I have all the technology I need finely honed.

    image
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    edited August 2015
    I await word from the Oracle as to who was 798, 799, the big 800 and 801.

    802 and 803 we know.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,021
    By my reckoning:

    V798 Patrick BAUER
    V799 Ahmed KASHI
    V800 El-Hadji BA
    V801 Simon MAKIENOK
    V802 Zakarya BERGDICH
    V803 Cristian CEBALLOS PRIETO
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    On when they joined the club or position?
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,021
    Order on team sheet.
  • Ross
    Ross Posts: 4,409
    I would go on shirt numbers, so Kashi, Bauer, Makienok and Ba, followed by Bergdich and Ceballos
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    Ross said:

    I would go on shirt numbers, so Kashi, Bauer, Makienok and Ba, followed by Bergdich and Ceballos

    Stig has spoken.

    That is final.
  • sam3110
    sam3110 Posts: 21,252
    I would have gone on when they came on the pitch during the RRR, or whoever touched the ball first in the match
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,218
    sam3110 said:

    I would have gone on when they came on the pitch during the RRR, or whoever touched the ball first in the match

    The Stig has spoken

    That is final.

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