Thanks for all of the comments. I like to hear the feedback from these events.
My fear is that a bad December could trigger another three or four month malaise which would further dispirit the fan base. My hope is that we can be within five points of a playoff place before the end of January and a couple of new additions could boost a late surge. After the exits from all the Cups it is the only thing we have left. However I am sceptical.
Someone with notes will give a better synopsis than I and I risk miss quoting... but I am sure I recall JR saying the owners did not acquire us to stand still as a league one club for a couple of years so from that I infer the business plan is rapid promotion (hardly a surprise).
When quizzed whether the owners were there for the long haul he was somewhat evasive with "signs are positive but we have only known them 4 months" type answer. It's a fair answer given the type of ownership we have I guess.
On the transfer window I am sure there was a comment that money is available if we are in the mix. Personally I am not convinced we will be but I feel money should still be spent as we should be looking to improve window on window.
Someone with notes will give a better synopsis than I and I risk miss quoting... but I am sure I recall JR saying the owners did not acquire us to stand still as a league one club for a couple of years so from that I infer the business plan is rapid promotion (hardly a surprise).
When quizzed whether the owners were there for the long haul he was somewhat evasive with "signs are positive but we have only known them 4 months" type answer. It's a fair answer given the type of ownership we have I guess.
On the transfer window I am sure there was a comment that money is available if we are in the mix. Personally I am not convinced we will be but I feel money should still be spent as we should be looking to improve window on window.
Unfortunately unable to make it. Would be interested to understand Scotts take on his involvement and insistance formation and style of play?
I don't believe Scott tells coaches the formation to play.
However he did say that they had recruited for a certain style/formation. Then Holden inexplicably decided to play a different formation this season, which clearly didn't appear to work. This helped his demise after he had also declined many offers of assistance as well.
Eh? Holden wanted a 352 formation and we didn't sign any fit wing backs or a partner for May in a front 2 so he was forced to revert to 433 after realising that CBT can't play as a forward.
i’m surprised that nobody apparently asked about progress in the fitness/medical area given that the current injury list suggests there hasn’t been any so far.
After all, who was it who said in summer “There’s no point in spending money on good players if we cannot keep them fit and available” ?
i’m surprised that nobody apparently asked about progress in the fitness/medical area given that the current injury list suggests there hasn’t been any so far.
After all, who was it who said in summer “There’s no point in spending money on good players if we cannot keep them fit and available” ?
i’m surprised that nobody apparently asked about progress in the fitness/medical area given that the current injury list suggests there hasn’t been any so far.
After all, who was it who said in summer “There’s no point in spending money on good players if we cannot keep them fit and available” ?
The question was asked
ok…..
Is there a D-notice on the answer?
I'm waiting on Charlie to say if all right to make it public
i’m surprised that nobody apparently asked about progress in the fitness/medical area given that the current injury list suggests there hasn’t been any so far.
After all, who was it who said in summer “There’s no point in spending money on good players if we cannot keep them fit and available” ?
The question was asked
ok…..
Is there a D-notice on the answer?
I'm waiting on Charlie to say if all right to make it public
Those sites just guess wages tbf. May be right, or may be way off. Although no doubting Ipswich have spent more than us.
The gross wage bills for clubs come from the published accounts. The accounts published are of the previous season. My guess is Ipswich will have splashed even more cash in their last season in league1.
Not to derail the thread any further but Ipswich spent an incredibly high amount during their last two seasons in League One, to suggest otherwise is naive.
Even when they were flying and had a good full back in Greg leigh, they went out and spent over £1m for another left back, Leif Davis.
£1m. For a left-back. In League One. And it was a smart investment.
Those sites just guess wages tbf. May be right, or may be way off. Although no doubting Ipswich have spent more than us.
The gross wage bills for clubs come from the published accounts. The accounts published are of the previous season. My guess is Ipswich will have splashed even more cash in their last season in league1.
Not to derail the thread any further but Ipswich spent an incredibly high amount during their last two seasons in League One, to suggest otherwise is naive.
Even when they were flying and had a good full back in Greg leigh, they went out and spent over £1m for another left back, Leif Davis.
£1m. For a left-back. In League One. And it was a smart investment.
What is that example trying to prove? Leif Davis is now worth 15x that amount minimum, so as you say, was a smart investment.
You have to speculate to accumulate - something our owners never seem to realise!
Those sites just guess wages tbf. May be right, or may be way off. Although no doubting Ipswich have spent more than us.
The gross wage bills for clubs come from the published accounts. The accounts published are of the previous season. My guess is Ipswich will have splashed even more cash in their last season in league1.
Not to derail the thread any further but Ipswich spent an incredibly high amount during their last two seasons in League One, to suggest otherwise is naive.
Even when they were flying and had a good full back in Greg leigh, they went out and spent over £1m for another left back, Leif Davis.
£1m. For a left-back. In League One. And it was a smart investment.
Again I ask Spend £10m over 2 seasons and tread water Spend £19m and be pushing for promotion to the Premier League?
If our owners had the choice I think they go with 2.
But you have to spend well and recruit well. Nothing is a given but we probably aren't making the play offs this year so the next couple of months will be interesting.
Those sites just guess wages tbf. May be right, or may be way off. Although no doubting Ipswich have spent more than us.
The gross wage bills for clubs come from the published accounts. The accounts published are of the previous season. My guess is Ipswich will have splashed even more cash in their last season in league1.
Not to derail the thread any further but Ipswich spent an incredibly high amount during their last two seasons in League One, to suggest otherwise is naive.
Even when they were flying and had a good full back in Greg leigh, they went out and spent over £1m for another left back, Leif Davis.
£1m. For a left-back. In League One. And it was a smart investment.
What is that example trying to prove? Leif Davis is now worth 15x that amount minimum, so as you say, was a smart investment.
You have to speculate to accumulate - something our owners never seem to realise!
My point was a response to some stating that Ipswich didn't spend that much compared to us. They did and it's not comparable to our spend at all.
I used Leif Davis as example as it's pretty insane to spend that amount on a young fullback who's barely kicked a ball in anger, especially in League One. But as you say he's now worth tens of millions and it's an example of what you can achieve when you have a proper recruitment team, aligned with the manager, and an ownership prepared to take the financial risk.
In other words, everything we are not (from what I've seen so far).
Remember he's passing on highlights of what was said immediately after the meeting so as to give people a feel for what was said.
He's not necessarily endorsing what was said and there was a lot more detail.
Don't shoot the messenger
Rodwell praised what CAST had done on the parking and his response to the potential £1m lost was a mock groan an "Don't depress me".
As for it's as simple as football manager that really is silly.
Scott went into a lot of detail about how he almost becomes a "stalker" when looking to sign players, checking their social media to see if they post about football or going out drinking, speaking to coaches and players who've worked with them, have they moved area before, etc etc.
There is a lot more that I'll post when I can.
I remain to be convinced but what was SAID made sense and wasn't Sandgaard style European football in five years eg aim to be among the top 30 clubs In the county and build from there.
The stated level of engagement of the owners and their willingness to invest was a positive. Yes, again it's just words so far but JR did respond to @Athletico Charlton's question about the sale price by saying yes, it was around £10 to £12m and it was cash up front.
I'll say it again, come to the meetings and hear for yourselves. You'll get a much better feel for way things are put than on here
In other news the raffle raised £350 so more than we paid for the sponsorship so the football club got money and we have cash in the bank to pay the miserable moaning sod who runs the RBL club who I had a full and frank exchange of views with, @Sage was there, and who then spent the evening moaning to all our members at the bar about us not putting the chairs back!!
Other than that a good night and thanks to all the committee for organising, fans for attending, Jim and Andy for coming, especially Jim as he really wasn't well and Tom Rubashow and @Tracey for organising.
The forecourt of the Shell garage next-door is usually available. Book it for the next meeting? Or Morrisons underground car park?
i’m surprised that nobody apparently asked about progress in the fitness/medical area given that the current injury list suggests there hasn’t been any so far.
After all, who was it who said in summer “There’s no point in spending money on good players if we cannot keep them fit and available” ?
The question was asked
ok…..
Is there a D-notice on the answer?
I'm waiting on Charlie to say if all right to make it public
Home thoughts from abroad. My own thoughts in italics
The many other lifers who were there- please chip in and point out what I've missed or got wrong.
Andy Scott (AS) and Jim Rodwell (JR) re told the story of how they came to the club and some of their background.
AS talked about signing 24 players for Forest in six weeks as his "craziest time in football"
In between being with Charlton in January and again in July he worked for a company which owns multiple clubs in multiple countries re-structuring their recruitment processes. He didn't name them so let the speculation begin. Can't remember any of the countries now other than Portugal.
JR said that he was always confident that they would end up buying the club even when Speigal was around.
AS spoke about the all staff meeting from mid November that aim to set out what the management were trying to achieve. Felt there was an "insipid atmosphere" among staff.
staff "didn't believe of know what they were contributing to" Said this would be shared with fans so I asked him to do some of that tonight. Said that a lot needs doing, refurbishment of pitch at Valley and pitches at SL. Great facility but a lot has been left and needs work. Said it was less about specifics and more about what is important, what the values are, and how that will manifest itself and what the next steps are. Message was no one is more important that anyone else, deliberately mixed tables of 10 people x 28 so Appleton sitting on same table as cleaners.
JR spoke about a Global Football Partners (GFP) board meeting (the beneficial owners) recently at which the executive directors EG the management of CM, JR, AS, put forward a business proposal for pushing the club forward and GFP committed to that.
AS said we've not had a clear vision. in past it was "just sign some better players and it will be OK" (I thought this was telling and a valid criticism of past regimes) but clubs Brighton and Brentford didn't just happen, it took them years for their owners to identify what they wanted, we've done it in six months.
They know the squad is too big and that there are players not contributing.
Want to get to be in top 30 clubs in the country as soon as possible and then take it from there.
They want to be community driven, viable and sustainable working with RSK, they want to be a front runner in EDI (equality, diversity and inclusion).
They want an elite and coherent club EG the Women's, Men's, Academy, Community Trust all understanding what the club is about.
"We know what we want to be but it will take time" "We're not where we want to be now but that's not a surprise"
Question; Is the Valley our home or just a place we rent?
JR, "No, the Valley is our home and no plans to change that, fabulous home but does need some TLC"
JR "Having conversations with the owner (RD). Happy to rent for a 100 years is the terms are right but only been four months and building a relationship with RD"
it’s like new owner bingo - at least they know what people want to hear and tbh I have no reason to doubt them - just hope they hurry up in the window coz although we’ve scored a lot of goals at the valley this year, there’s something very unconvincing about the team - only when we had chucks and leaburn tag teaming did we start looking like potential promotion material - apart from the defence of course - expecting tomorrow to be a struggle and out of the 7others I normally go with not 1 is going other than me - all got other things on !!! Do I go and suffer on my own or enjoy myself up the pub ?
it’s like new owner bingo - at least they know what people want to hear and tbh I have no reason to doubt them - just hope they hurry up in the window coz although we’ve scored a lot of goals at the valley this year, there’s something very unconvincing about the team - only when we had chucks and leaburn tag teaming did we start looking like potential promotion material - apart from the defence of course - expecting tomorrow to be a struggle and out of the 7others I normally go with not 1 is going other than me - all got other things on !!! Do I go and suffer on my own or enjoy myself up the pub ?
I thought exactly the same thing. Go and suffer like the rest of us . However disillusioned I am (mainly with Appletons useless selections, positional awareness and tactics, I will be there. One day we will be million.. ...premier league.
That net spend is sadly nonsense I'm just saying if you think spending £5-6m per year to tread water makes sense, I'm arguing it doesn't
Ipswich went out and hired the best manager available. They bought a lot of players.
It didn't work.
They learnt.
Have we? Will we? Holden, then Appleton and our last two windows says not.
We all hope it does. I can't stick up for the current set up. I'm not asking for them to be removed- to sell up and bugger off, but I have doubts they'll deliver their rhetoric.
We can all agree to disagree. We all want the best for the club.
Ipswich's owners decided they'd spend money. Ours haven't really. Not since splashing out £12m + to acquire the club.
Kirk, Aneke etc were already here when they bought us. It has saddled them with problems - but they knew all about those problems when they bought us and oversaw the window of Jan 22.
That net spend is sadly nonsense I'm just saying if you think spending £5-6m per year to tread water makes sense, I'm arguing it doesn't
Ipswich went out and hired the best manager available. They bought a lot of players.
It didn't work.
They learnt.
Have we? Will we? Holden, then Appleton and our last two windows says not.
We all hope it does. I can't stick up for the current set up. I'm not asking for them to be removed- to sell up and bugger off, but I have doubts they'll deliver their rhetoric.
We can all agree to disagree. We all want the best for the club.
Ipswich's owners decided they'd spend money. Ours haven't really. Not since splashing out £12m + to acquire the club.
Kirk, Aneke etc were already here when they bought us. It has saddled them with problems - but they knew all about those problems when they bought us and oversaw the window of Jan 22.
i’m surprised that nobody apparently asked about progress in the fitness/medical area given that the current injury list suggests there hasn’t been any so far.
After all, who was it who said in summer “There’s no point in spending money on good players if we cannot keep them fit and available” ?
I voiced an opinion about this.The fact that we continue to sign injured players such as Camara, Taylor & Edun and the fact that we only have one decent defender (who is strong at defending) in Jones. Scott joked that I'd be inspirational down the training ground and managed to deflect away from the question with some audience laughter. I rattled him and I don't believe he really answered the question so went rather defensive (in my opinion).
i’m surprised that nobody apparently asked about progress in the fitness/medical area given that the current injury list suggests there hasn’t been any so far.
After all, who was it who said in summer “There’s no point in spending money on good players if we cannot keep them fit and available” ?
I voiced an opinion about this, The fact that we continue to sign injured players such as Camara, Taylor & Edun and the fact that we only have one decent defender (who is strong at defending) in Jones. Scott joked that I'd be inspirational down the training ground and managed to deflect away from the question with some audience laughter. I rattled him and I don't believe he really answered the question so went rather defensive (in my opinion).
although not ideal at least that shows he knows that it’s an issue
Someone with notes will give a better synopsis than I and I risk miss quoting... but I am sure I recall JR saying the owners did not acquire us to stand still as a league one club for a couple of years so from that I infer the business plan is rapid promotion (hardly a surprise).
When quizzed whether the owners were there for the long haul he was somewhat evasive with "signs are positive but we have only known them 4 months" type answer. It's a fair answer given the type of ownership we have I guess.
On the transfer window I am sure there was a comment that money is available if we are in the mix. Personally I am not convinced we will be but I feel money should still be spent as we should be looking to improve window on window.
I remember Rodwell answering my question by saying money is available, including funds to pay transfer fees. They were happy to spend even if not in the mix, because they are looking to continually strengthen the squad.
That net spend is sadly nonsense I'm just saying if you think spending £5-6m per year to tread water makes sense, I'm arguing it doesn't
Ipswich went out and hired the best manager available. They bought a lot of players.
It didn't work.
They learnt.
Have we? Will we? Holden, then Appleton and our last two windows says not.
We all hope it does. I can't stick up for the current set up. I'm not asking for them to be removed- to sell up and bugger off, but I have doubts they'll deliver their rhetoric.
We can all agree to disagree. We all want the best for the club.
Ipswich's owners decided they'd spend money. Ours haven't really. Not since splashing out £12m + to acquire the club.
Kirk, Aneke etc were already here when they bought us. It has saddled them with problems - but they knew all about those problems when they bought us and oversaw the window of Jan 22.
So, um.... you were considerably wrong. They spent - is it working. If they get into the Premier League it's worth it.
Our owners are worth a lot. If you asked them - spend (lose) £19m for 2 years BUT be knocking on the door of the Premier League would you do it.
I'm guessing they'd say yes.
Spend probably £10m over 2 years and going nowhere in League 1? I guess they won't be so enamoured.
We don't know that that is actually true, methven may have spread that rumour via his friends in low places. The truth is yet to be revealed.
Was confirmed by Rodwell last night that was the price (in that range)
I remember southall "saying"/lying that they had bought The Valley & SL. Not suggesting this lot are anywhere near southalls crowd but I would be amazed if anyone paid sandgaard 10-12 million
That net spend is sadly nonsense I'm just saying if you think spending £5-6m per year to tread water makes sense, I'm arguing it doesn't
Ipswich went out and hired the best manager available. They bought a lot of players.
It didn't work.
They learnt.
Have we? Will we? Holden, then Appleton and our last two windows says not.
We all hope it does. I can't stick up for the current set up. I'm not asking for them to be removed- to sell up and bugger off, but I have doubts they'll deliver their rhetoric.
We can all agree to disagree. We all want the best for the club.
Ipswich's owners decided they'd spend money. Ours haven't really. Not since splashing out £12m + to acquire the club.
Kirk, Aneke etc were already here when they bought us. It has saddled them with problems - but they knew all about those problems when they bought us and oversaw the window of Jan 22.
So, um.... you were considerably wrong. They spent - is it working. If they get into the Premier League it's worth it.
Our owners are worth a lot. If you asked them - spend (lose) £19m for 2 years BUT be knocking on the door of the Premier League would you do it.
I'm guessing they'd say yes.
Spend probably £10m over 2 years and going nowhere in League 1? I guess they won't be so enamoured.
We don't know that that is actually true, methven may have spread that rumour via his friends in low places. The truth is yet to be revealed.
Was confirmed by Rodwell last night that was the price (in that range)
I remember southall "saying" that they had bought The Valley & SL. Not suggesting this lot are anywhere near southalls crowd but I would be amazed if anyone paid sandgaard 10-12 million
Apart from TS quoting it and other people from other parties mentioning the sum and Rodwell saying it last night you mean?
I mean at SOME point you're going to have to give it some credence?!
Remember he's passing on highlights of what was said immediately after the meeting so as to give people a feel for what was said.
He's not necessarily endorsing what was said and there was a lot more detail.
Don't shoot the messenger
Rodwell praised what CAST had done on the parking and his response to the potential £1m lost was a mock groan an "Don't depress me".
As for it's as simple as football manager that really is silly.
Scott went into a lot of detail about how he almost becomes a "stalker" when looking to sign players, checking their social media to see if they post about football or going out drinking, speaking to coaches and players who've worked with them, have they moved area before, etc etc.
There is a lot more that I'll post when I can.
I remain to be convinced but what was SAID made sense and wasn't Sandgaard style European football in five years eg aim to be among the top 30 clubs In the county and build from there.
The stated level of engagement of the owners and their willingness to invest was a positive. Yes, again it's just words so far but JR did respond to @Athletico Charlton's question about the sale price by saying yes, it was around £10 to £12m and it was cash up front.
I'll say it again, come to the meetings and hear for yourselves. You'll get a much better feel for way things are put than on here
In other news the raffle raised £350 so more than we paid for the sponsorship so the football club got money and we have cash in the bank to pay the miserable moaning sod who runs the RBL club who I had a full and frank exchange of views with, @Sage was there, and who then spent the evening moaning to all our members at the bar about us not putting the chairs back!!
Other than that a good night and thanks to all the committee for organising, fans for attending, Jim and Andy for coming, especially Jim as he really wasn't well and Tom Rubashow and @Tracey for organising.
The forecourt of the Shell garage next-door is usually available. Book it for the next meeting? Or Morrisons underground car park?
Comments
My fear is that a bad December could trigger another three or four month malaise which would further dispirit the fan base. My hope is that we can be within five points of a playoff place before the end of January and a couple of new additions could boost a late surge. After the exits from all the Cups it is the only thing we have left. However I am sceptical.
When quizzed whether the owners were there for the long haul he was somewhat evasive with "signs are positive but we have only known them 4 months" type answer. It's a fair answer given the type of ownership we have I guess.
On the transfer window I am sure there was a comment that money is available if we are in the mix. Personally I am not convinced we will be but I feel money should still be spent as we should be looking to improve window on window.
Even when they were flying and had a good full back in Greg leigh, they went out and spent over £1m for another left back, Leif Davis.
£1m. For a left-back. In League One. And it was a smart investment.
You have to speculate to accumulate - something our owners never seem to realise!
Spend £10m over 2 seasons and tread water
Spend £19m and be pushing for promotion to the Premier League?
If our owners had the choice I think they go with 2.
But you have to spend well and recruit well. Nothing is a given but we probably aren't making the play offs this year so the next couple of months will be interesting.
We can expect sensible team building though, as shown by the likes of Luton, Coventry and Plymouth in previous L1 seasons, and Bolton and Pompey now.
I used Leif Davis as example as it's pretty insane to spend that amount on a young fullback who's barely kicked a ball in anger, especially in League One. But as you say he's now worth tens of millions and it's an example of what you can achieve when you have a proper recruitment team, aligned with the manager, and an ownership prepared to take the financial risk.
In other words, everything we are not (from what I've seen so far).
The many other lifers who were there- please chip in and point out what I've missed or got wrong.
Andy Scott (AS) and Jim Rodwell (JR) re told the story of how they came to the club and some of their background.
AS talked about signing 24 players for Forest in six weeks as his "craziest time in football"
In between being with Charlton in January and again in July he worked for a company which owns multiple clubs in multiple countries re-structuring their recruitment processes. He didn't name them so let the speculation begin. Can't remember any of the countries now other than Portugal.
JR said that he was always confident that they would end up buying the club even when Speigal was around.
AS spoke about the all staff meeting from mid November that aim to set out what the management were trying to achieve. Felt there was an "insipid atmosphere" among staff.
staff "didn't believe of know what they were contributing to" Said this would be shared with fans so I asked him to do some of that tonight. Said that a lot needs doing, refurbishment of pitch at Valley and pitches at SL. Great facility but a lot has been left and needs work. Said it was less about specifics and more about what is important, what the values are, and how that will manifest itself and what the next steps are. Message was no one is more important that anyone else, deliberately mixed tables of 10 people x 28 so Appleton sitting on same table as cleaners.
JR spoke about a Global Football Partners (GFP) board meeting (the beneficial owners) recently at which the executive directors EG the management of CM, JR, AS, put forward a business proposal for pushing the club forward and GFP committed to that.
AS said we've not had a clear vision. in past it was "just sign some better players and it will be OK" (I thought this was telling and a valid criticism of past regimes) but clubs Brighton and Brentford didn't just happen, it took them years for their owners to identify what they wanted, we've done it in six months.
They know the squad is too big and that there are players not contributing.
Want to get to be in top 30 clubs in the country as soon as possible and then take it from there.
They want to be community driven, viable and sustainable working with RSK, they want to be a front runner in EDI (equality, diversity and inclusion).
They want an elite and coherent club EG the Women's, Men's, Academy, Community Trust all understanding what the club is about.
"We know what we want to be but it will take time" "We're not where we want to be now but that's not a surprise"
Question; Is the Valley our home or just a place we rent?
JR, "No, the Valley is our home and no plans to change that, fabulous home but does need some TLC"
JR "Having conversations with the owner (RD). Happy to rent for a 100 years is the terms are right but only been four months and building a relationship with RD"
More when I've had a drink or two.
Scott joked that I'd be inspirational down the training ground and managed to deflect away from the question with some audience laughter. I rattled him and I don't believe he really answered the question so went rather defensive (in my opinion).
I mean at SOME point you're going to have to give it some credence?!