As I recall Roland's "model" was based on a network of clubs. I can't see how TS's is similar. Developing talent through the academy to try to achieve sustainability is not particularly revolutionary - lots of clubs trying that, some suceeding, most not.
The comparison in vision and aim has been done before, some accept it some dont. Both have/d the vision of breaking even and sustainability;
RD by - Playing the transfer market using his network of clubs Investing in a strong 11 and squad filling with cheap frees, loans and youth prospects Develop the premier league stars of the future and sell for a tidy profit Increase the match day expierence, catering, sofas, DJ´s etc. Target 20k
TS by - Playing the transfer market by seeking the best deals / friendly neighbourhood agents Investing in mainly, players that can develop for us/ resale Squad filling with cheap (but quality) loans and youth prospects Develop the youth and sell for a tidy profit Increase the match day expirence with regualr guitar solos (may not be 100% accurate i just dont remember what they said recently ) Fill the valley
Nothing wrong with it, there wasnt anything wrong with Rolands plan other than the fact that he never had the desire to push us on in January´s when the playing side needed it for promotion/ relegation - he then completley gave up out of boredom and spite.
It's basically the Brentford model but producing our own youth too. Worked fairly well for them.
As I recall Roland's "model" was based on a network of clubs. I can't see how TS's is similar. Developing talent through the academy to try to achieve sustainability is not particularly revolutionary - lots of clubs trying that, some suceeding, most not.
The comparison in vision and aim has been done before, some accept it some dont. Both have/d the vision of breaking even and sustainability;
RD by - Playing the transfer market using his network of clubs Investing in a strong 11 and squad filling with cheap frees, loans and youth prospects Develop the premier league stars of the future and sell for a tidy profit Increase the match day expierence, catering, sofas, DJ´s etc. Target 20k
TS by - Playing the transfer market by seeking the best deals / friendly neighbourhood agents Investing in mainly, players that can develop for us/ resale Squad filling with cheap (but quality) loans and youth prospects Develop the youth and sell for a tidy profit Increase the match day expirence with regualr guitar solos (may not be 100% accurate i just dont remember what they said recently ) Fill the valley
Nothing wrong with it, there wasnt anything wrong with Rolands plan other than the fact that he never had the desire to push us on in January´s when the playing side needed it for promotion/ relegation - he then completley gave up out of boredom and spite.
It's basically the Brentford model but producing our own youth too. Worked fairly well for them.
It's not the Brentford model though is it. Brentford signed players from France and Scandinavia etc that we no longer have access to. Brentford (and Peterborough if we want to bench mark) spent lots of money on individual players.
You can't have your cake and eat it.
Absolutely you can get promoted from this division without buying players for sizable transfer fees.
What you can't do is make significant money, the level we would need to, buy buying cheap players. Look how much Brentford paid for Konsa and Watkins.
Are we buying players to get us promoted now, or next year, or are we buying players we can "train on" and sell for a profit to cover the losses?
They are two very different approaches and in an ideal word you will do both. You wouldn't buy players like Stockley, Aneke, Clare, probably even Fraser if option 2 was your MO.
step 1 — get promoted out of this shit league…. Go from there. We will have more of an idea if that’s possible once the season starts, when it will be down to BG and the squad to make it happen.
I agree that investing in the academy is clearly the strategy but I’d be cautious about assuming that it is one which will necessarily work. The club hasn’t achieved category one status, but regardless of whether it does in future the academy has been doing pretty well already. The test of any investment in it is whether that actually leads to a net benefit through it doing better.
It’s not just the capital cost but the extra salaries for staff required under category one.
Admittedly it’s hard to measure the marginal benefit of the investment, but it is important to remember that we don’t start from a position where the academy doesn’t exist or is failing.
In the meantime, L1 football damages the club’s long-term prospects (by losing fans) and the longer we play at this level the more damage it will do - it’s no good telling people to suck it up or get used to it. It’s clearly not right that a club with Charlton’s resources hasn’t been able to outperform a club like Accrington. It can only be bad management.
The club’s only immediate priority should be promotion back to the Championship. Remaining in L1 is failure of itself and will cost the owner a fortune.
I agree a different approach might improve the chances of success, but it might also cost more and potentially achieve the same end result as nothing is guaranteed. I also agree that it's down to bad management and a misconception as to what was needed to get out of the division that we find ourselves at such a low point, but as our status is set for this coming season, all the owner can do is try to put things right now and in the months ahead in order for us to mount a promotion challenge, even if he's not doing it in whatever way you think he should.
Incidentally, if we're being told to "suck it up or get used to it?" I must have missed it. Who said that and when? If that's what's being inferred from the owner referring to making us 'sustainable', I agree that it's not doable at L1 level without turning us into a young player farm, but he's not planning for us to stay in L1 indefinitely is he? Or if he is, he shouldn't be for the reasons you stated.
My question to you is how do you personally think he should be approaching the footballing side of things now to achieve promotion back to the Championship, accepting of course that it's hardly your responsibility before you laugh and offer me a political style disclaimer.
Bearing in mind that TS has been "bigging up" Miles ( as if he needs it !) we can only hope that he would refuse any offers that might come in for our lad in order to help balance the books....
Bearing in mind that TS has been "bigging up" Miles ( as if he needs it !) we can only hope that he would refuse any offers that might come in for our lad in order to help balance the books....
Are you genuinely concerned Leaburn could be sold this summer?
I agree that investing in the academy is clearly the strategy but I’d be cautious about assuming that it is one which will necessarily work. The club hasn’t achieved category one status, but regardless of whether it does in future the academy has been doing pretty well already. The test of any investment in it is whether that actually leads to a net benefit through it doing better.
It’s not just the capital cost but the extra salaries for staff required under category one.
Admittedly it’s hard to measure the marginal benefit of the investment, but it is important to remember that we don’t start from a position where the academy doesn’t exist or is failing.
In the meantime, L1 football damages the club’s long-term prospects (by losing fans) and the longer we play at this level the more damage it will do - it’s no good telling people to suck it up or get used to it. It’s clearly not right that a club with Charlton’s resources hasn’t been able to outperform a club like Accrington. It can only be bad management.
The club’s only immediate priority should be promotion back to the Championship. Remaining in L1 is failure of itself and will cost the owner a fortune.
I agree a different approach might improve the chances of success, but it might also cost more and potentially achieve the same end result as nothing is guaranteed. I also agree that it's down to bad management and a misconception as to what was needed to get out of the division that we find ourselves at such a low point, but as our status is set for this coming season, all the owner can do is try to put things right now and in the months ahead in order for us to mount a promotion challenge, even if he's not doing it in whatever way you think he should.
Incidentally, if we're being told to "suck it up or get used to it?" I must have missed it. Who said that and when? If that's what's being inferred from the owner referring to making us 'sustainable', I agree that it's not doable at L1 level without turning us into a young player farm, but he's not planning for us to stay in L1 indefinitely is he? Or if he is, he shouldn't be for the reasons you stated.
My question to you is how do you personally think he should be approaching the footballing side of things now to achieve promotion back to the Championship, accepting of course that it's hardly your responsibility before you laugh and offer me a political style disclaimer.
I wasn't suggesting that the owner was telling fans to suck it up, I was alluding to some fans who seem to think that anyone who demands better is "entitled" or otherwise unreasonable and should accept what we have. I think that's defeatist nonsense given the competition and makes no financial sense anyway because of the unavoidable losses at this level.
I wouldn't presume to tell the football side how to succeed, any more than I would expect the Sandgaards to be competent to do so, but I am sceptical that we are currently equipped to get promoted out of the division based on recruitment so far. Any judgement is somewhat premature pending further loan signings, admittedly.
Bearing in mind that TS has been "bigging up" Miles ( as if he needs it !) we can only hope that he would refuse any offers that might come in for our lad in order to help balance the books....
Sandgaard did very similar with Mason Burstow last season. It’s pretty vulgar behaviour really. Miles is only 18 and should be allowed to develop away from the spotlight.
'Vulgar' behaviour being positive about an academy product. Fucking hell.
I agree that investing in the academy is clearly the strategy but I’d be cautious about assuming that it is one which will necessarily work. The club hasn’t achieved category one status, but regardless of whether it does in future the academy has been doing pretty well already. The test of any investment in it is whether that actually leads to a net benefit through it doing better.
It’s not just the capital cost but the extra salaries for staff required under category one.
Admittedly it’s hard to measure the marginal benefit of the investment, but it is important to remember that we don’t start from a position where the academy doesn’t exist or is failing.
In the meantime, L1 football damages the club’s long-term prospects (by losing fans) and the longer we play at this level the more damage it will do - it’s no good telling people to suck it up or get used to it. It’s clearly not right that a club with Charlton’s resources hasn’t been able to outperform a club like Accrington. It can only be bad management.
The club’s only immediate priority should be promotion back to the Championship. Remaining in L1 is failure of itself and will cost the owner a fortune.
I agree a different approach might improve the chances of success, but it might also cost more and potentially achieve the same end result as nothing is guaranteed. I also agree that it's down to bad management and a misconception as to what was needed to get out of the division that we find ourselves at such a low point, but as our status is set for this coming season, all the owner can do is try to put things right now and in the months ahead in order for us to mount a promotion challenge, even if he's not doing it in whatever way you think he should.
Incidentally, if we're being told to "suck it up or get used to it?" I must have missed it. Who said that and when? If that's what's being inferred from the owner referring to making us 'sustainable', I agree that it's not doable at L1 level without turning us into a young player farm, but he's not planning for us to stay in L1 indefinitely is he? Or if he is, he shouldn't be for the reasons you stated.
My question to you is how do you personally think he should be approaching the footballing side of things now to achieve promotion back to the Championship, accepting of course that it's hardly your responsibility before you laugh and offer me a political style disclaimer.
I wasn't suggesting that the owner was telling fans to suck it up, I was alluding to some fans who seem to think that anyone who demands better is "entitled" or otherwise unreasonable and should accept what we have. I think that's defeatist nonsense given the competition and makes no financial sense anyway because of the unavoidable losses at this level.
I wouldn't presume to tell the football side how to succeed, any more than I would expect the Sandgaards to be competent to do so, but I am sceptical that we are currently equipped to get promoted out of the division based on recruitment so far. Any judgement is somewhat premature pending further loan signings, admittedly.
In other words we should expect to be outperforming many of the teams in the division. I can't argue with that, although it is also littered now with several Club's of similar stature to ourselves.
I'm still hoping for more than just loans in though as several of the existing squad are injury prone and it seems to me the last few seasons have been largely defined by our ability, or inability, to cope with injury crises.
Bearing in mind that TS has been "bigging up" Miles ( as if he needs it !) we can only hope that he would refuse any offers that might come in for our lad in order to help balance the books....
Sandgaard did very similar with Mason Burstow last season. It’s pretty vulgar behaviour really. Miles is only 18 and should be allowed to develop away from the spotlight.
'Vulgar' behaviour being positive about an academy product. Fucking hell.
I think it’s a trashy thing to do, and suggests that Sandgaard can’t wait to cash in like he did with Mason Burstow.
No it doesn't, you're suggesting that. Based on nothing. What Sandgaard actually said was 'Everybody keeps talking about the fact we need another striker, just
wait until you see what Miles is capable of and how fast he is
developing too. We have someone coming up from the academy, so that puts a dampener on
the pressure for getting outside strikers in. It might still be an
option, but we’re pretty well off at the moment with Jayden Stockley,
Chuks Aneke, Josh Davison and Miles.'
Point out to me exactly where the 'trashy' part of the comment is and where cashing in is mentioned anywhere. Sandgaard is saying that a player out of our academy will be a part of the squad, which is a good thing for players looking for a pathway to the first team. I'm sorry that Sandgaard sacked Johnnie Jackson but making up absolute fantasy stories about Sandgaard trying to sell off our youth players in preseason by being nice about them once after a friendly is truly pathetic.
I’ll repeat, there is a lot of projecting going on here
Very weird. Imagine making an account on a forum just to whine about the owner of a football club. There's some strange folk about
You have resolutely defended the owner on this forum for the last 18 months, it’s clear you have personally invested in him. Don’t be so worried about having your views challenged about him from time to time.
From what I can see, he’s pointing out that you are reaching for a conclusion that fits in with your idea of TS, rather than just accepting he’s praising a young player.
TS has made a number of mistakes and will probably make more …. this is not one of them.
His comments in no way suggest vulgar behaviour or trashiness.
Bearing in mind that TS has been "bigging up" Miles ( as if he needs it !) we can only hope that he would refuse any offers that might come in for our lad in order to help balance the books....
Sandgaard did very similar with Mason Burstow last season. It’s pretty vulgar behaviour really. Miles is only 18 and should be allowed to develop away from the spotlight.
'Vulgar' behaviour being positive about an academy product. Fucking hell.
I think it’s a trashy thing to do, and suggests that Sandgaard can’t wait to cash in like he did with Mason Burstow.
I'd not agree with trashy, but I'd not disagree re cashing in. He did it with Burstow so why not with another youngster?
I’ll repeat, there is a lot of projecting going on here
Very weird. Imagine making an account on a forum just to whine about the owner of a football club. There's some strange folk about
You have resolutely defended the owner on this forum for the last 18 months, it’s clear you have personally invested in him. Don’t be so worried about having your views challenged about him from time to time.
No I haven't. I have repeatedly pointed out things I am not comfortable with with what he's done, I've just also refused to agree with the ridiculous over the top whining of people claiming Sandgaard is skint and he's going to destroy the club with his madness because it's just that; over the top hyperbole. All I've asked is for you to point out the 'trashy' part of what Sandgaard said and where he was hawking Leaburn for sale by saying he's good.
Interesting that you've apparently been following my posting on here for 18 months though, considering you only made an account on here 3 days ago and have used it exclusively to cry about Sandgaard. Anyone might start to think you were a weird troll with an agenda!
Interesting thread over on the other forum about a potential offer for the club.
If he’s as skint as some have suggested he’ll have to have to sell sooner than later.
If someone is willing to pay £12m+ (think that wa the latest figure in the accounts) to buy us without owning the assets they’d have to be very serious too. I’d like to think that would also mean ESI types can be ruled out, but when is it ever that simple?
“It might still be an
option, but we’re pretty well off at the moment with Jayden Stockley,
Chuks Aneke, Josh Davison and Miles.”
This is a pretty delusional statement, if we take it at face value. I don’t think many people at SL believe MIles Leaburn is ready for a run in the first team, Josh Davison is, at best, unproven at this level despite opportunities, and Chuks is Chuks. If that’s a full complement of strikers, Suella Braverman’s the next Prime Minister.
I think the club is bigging up Miles for more legitimate reasons than any intention to sell him, though.
I look at it this way. If there actually was a credible offer on the table for the club, how on earth does only one bloke know who’s then told someone on a forum about it? There’s nothing from a credible source to this point.
When Sandgaard was interested but couldn’t get Roland to budge, he went to the press to get his name out there. That’s when we knew to take his interest seriously.
Any feeling that these supposed newly interested parties will do the same? I doubt it, because I doubt they exist.
“It might still be an
option, but we’re pretty well off at the moment with Jayden Stockley,
Chuks Aneke, Josh Davison and Miles.”
This is a pretty delusional statement, if we take it at face value. I don’t think many people at SL believe MIles Leaburn is ready for a run in the first team, Josh Davison is, at best, unproven at this level despite opportunities, and Chuks is Chuks. If that’s a full complement of strikers, Suella Braverman’s the next Prime Minister.
I think the club is bigging up Miles for more legitimate reasons than any intention to sell him, though.
Could it be a case of Thomas learning to not give the game away in the press? He’s absolutely not as gung-ho about it all compared to last summer.
If he tells the world we’re looking for a striker because we’re short of options, the prices quoted will surely go up.
He’s bigging up the youth products as he should. It’s also a convenient way to bargain with clubs who are open to selling at the right price.
Comments
You can't have your cake and eat it.
Absolutely you can get promoted from this division without buying players for sizable transfer fees.
What you can't do is make significant money, the level we would need to, buy buying cheap players. Look how much Brentford paid for Konsa and Watkins.
Are we buying players to get us promoted now, or next year, or are we buying players we can "train on" and sell for a profit to cover the losses?
They are two very different approaches and in an ideal word you will do both. You wouldn't buy players like Stockley, Aneke, Clare, probably even Fraser if option 2 was your MO.
Incidentally, if we're being told to "suck it up or get used to it?" I must have missed it. Who said that and when? If that's what's being inferred from the owner referring to making us 'sustainable', I agree that it's not doable at L1 level without turning us into a young player farm, but he's not planning for us to stay in L1 indefinitely is he? Or if he is, he shouldn't be for the reasons you stated.
My question to you is how do you personally think he should be approaching the footballing side of things now to achieve promotion back to the Championship, accepting of course that it's hardly your responsibility before you laugh and offer me a political style disclaimer.
I wouldn't presume to tell the football side how to succeed, any more than I would expect the Sandgaards to be competent to do so, but I am sceptical that we are currently equipped to get promoted out of the division based on recruitment so far. Any judgement is somewhat premature pending further loan signings, admittedly.
I'm still hoping for more than just loans in though as several of the existing squad are injury prone and it seems to me the last few seasons have been largely defined by our ability, or inability, to cope with injury crises.
He did it with Burstow so why not with another youngster?
If someone is willing to pay £12m+ (think that wa the latest figure in the accounts) to buy us without owning the assets they’d have to be very serious too. I’d like to think that would also mean ESI types can be ruled out, but when is it ever that simple?
I think the club is bigging up Miles for more legitimate reasons than any intention to sell him, though.
When Sandgaard was interested but couldn’t get Roland to budge, he went to the press to get his name out there. That’s when we knew to take his interest seriously.
Any feeling that these supposed newly interested parties will do the same? I doubt it, because I doubt they exist.
Heard anything @Airman Brown
If he tells the world we’re looking for a striker because we’re short of options, the prices quoted will surely go up.
He’s bigging up the youth products as he should. It’s also a convenient way to bargain with clubs who are open to selling at the right price.