Unprecedented deal for a 17 year old keeper will still be diddly squat compared to any value he may have given us if he had made it. Likely some minor upfront fee and a sell on clause for the future.
Another youngster comes through our academy using our free resources and training and disappears before signing even one contract.
The grief someone like Poyet got on here but at least he signed a contract and played a few games for us.
Disappointing and another nail in the academy coffin if we don't rapidly get CAT1.
Love the outrage, but how long would you expect him to stay? He's nowhere near the first team and we got a fee, seems the best deal all round personally. The money is probably far best in our pot now, than a player that will start in 5 years time.
It's disappointment, not outrage. I like to see the youth sign up and stay to break into the first team is all.
A concern of the viability of our Academy if players leave also seems reasonable to me.
As for the money being in "our pot", let's see in January but I often read on here that we lose £5-10M pa so if we have an upfront fee of somewhere near a million quid I personally would not be making assumptions that it will go into a transfer pot.
In the pot one way or another, it's how clubs like us survive. The academy is very viable, but mores the point... how many players do you expect a league 1 club to have on its books ?
As a player, would you want to be 7th choice in league 1, or 7th choice in the Premier league ?.
Easy comment to make.
Reality is that much of the income generation said to come from the academy in recent years has come from Lookman, Pope, Fosu, Aribo etc. None of which came through the academy.
Add to that the EPPP shite and the fact that PL clubs like Brighton and Palace have recently realised they can follow Chelsea and create a business model around nipping in to pick up the best kids from lower league academies meaning it becomes more and more difficult to retain them at 17.
Then there is the cost of running it - how much is that a year?
With Grant, Gomez, Konsa, Ajeyi, Doughty, Sarmiento and Palmer we have probably had as good a run as ever yet realised what £8M from that lot. Deduct costs of running it and I am not sure we have made that much cash for such an incredible talent purple patch. I know our U17/18 squad looks phenomenal but to keep the quality so high will be increasingly difficult given where footy has gone.
Unprecedented deal for a 17 year old keeper will still be diddly squat compared to any value he may have given us if he had made it. Likely some minor upfront fee and a sell on clause for the future.
Another youngster comes through our academy using our free resources and training and disappears before signing even one contract.
The grief someone like Poyet got on here but at least he signed a contract and played a few games for us.
Disappointing and another nail in the academy coffin if we don't rapidly get CAT1.
Love the outrage, but how long would you expect him to stay? He's nowhere near the first team and we got a fee, seems the best deal all round personally. The money is probably far best in our pot now, than a player that will start in 5 years time.
It's disappointment, not outrage. I like to see the youth sign up and stay to break into the first team is all.
A concern of the viability of our Academy if players leave also seems reasonable to me.
As for the money being in "our pot", let's see in January but I often read on here that we lose £5-10M pa so if we have an upfront fee of somewhere near a million quid I personally would not be making assumptions that it will go into a transfer pot.
In the pot one way or another, it's how clubs like us survive. The academy is very viable, but mores the point... how many players do you expect a league 1 club to have on its books ?
As a player, would you want to be 7th choice in league 1, or 7th choice in the Premier league ?.
Easy comment to make.
Reality is that much of the income generation said to come from the academy in recent years has come from Lookman, Pope, Fosu, Aribo etc. None of which came through the academy.
Add to that the EPPP shite and the fact that PL clubs like Brighton and Palace have recently realised they can follow Chelsea and create a business model around nipping in to pick up the best kids from lower league academies meaning it becomes more and more difficult to retain them at 17.
Then there is the cost of running it - how much is that a year?
With Grant, Gomez, Konsa, Ajeyi, Doughty, Sarmiento and Palmer we have probably had as good a run as ever yet realised what £8M from that lot. Deduct costs of running it and I am not sure we have made that much cash for such an incredible talent purple patch. I know our U17/18 squad looks phenomenal but to keep the quality so high will be increasingly difficult given where footy has gone.
Fosu and Aribo are a pittance. We got more for Callum Harriot than those two combined.
Combined for Gomez, Konsa & co it’s £12m generated
as I said before we don’t know as much as we’d like to with how transfer fees work
Lookman signed when he about 16 (what’s the cut off, 15?) and played in the u18s before turning pro. Aribo was 19 and spent over a year in the u23s before making his first team debut. Both were developed by the academy even if they weren’t there long.
Lookman signed when he about 16 (what’s the cut off, 15?) and played in the u18s before turning pro. Aribo was 19 and spent over a year in the u23s before making his first team debut. Both were developed by the academy even if they weren’t there long.
If we didn't have an academy at all, we would still be signing the likes of Lookman and especially Aribo. Brentford's B team has players aged between 17 and 21
And it costs between 1.5 & 2m per year. It varies depending on grants we receive
these grants increase when we get Cat 1 status
Thanks for responding. Interesting then, c £7.5-10M cost over 5 years when we have made c £12M. So profit through an exceptionally strong youth period of £2 - 4.5M.
Of course if we hadn't run the academy we could have invested that £7.5 - £10M in transfer fees and wages instead and who's to say we would not have picked up some tradable gems from that.
To be clear, I would hate us to close the academy. But each time one of our most promising kids leaves for little return I would be thinking about it if I was the owner.
The value is also in the number of games played by youth products like Grant, Aribo, Dikjsteel, Phillips, Morgan (all part of the 2019 promotion side)
The other side of the coin is those lost like Abraham and Sacrimento lost before they even reached 17.
If you keep losing valuable coins from your trousers you get the pocket repaired.
You do but....
I just came on this thread to make an, what I thought was, outstanding point that I have been mulling over all day. Then you bring up 3 examples that blow it out the water.
What I was going to say is the problem with our academy/youth set up is that we don't produce enough players of the right level. Then you produce Phillips, Grant and Dijksteel.
What I was going to say is that the players are either too good that they get snapped up before they can help progress the club or they aren't good enough for what we are. If they had come through now we probably wouldn't have lost those 3 though so that's probably an ownership issue?
And it costs between 1.5 & 2m per year. It varies depending on grants we receive
these grants increase when we get Cat 1 status
Thanks for responding. Interesting then, c £7.5-10M cost over 5 years when we have made c £12M. So profit through an exceptionally strong youth period of £2 - 4.5M.
Of course if we hadn't run the academy we could have invested that £7.5 - £10M in transfer fees and wages instead and who's to say we would not have picked up some tradable gems from that.
To be clear, I would hate us to close the academy. But each time one of our most promising kids leaves for little return I would be thinking about it if I was the owner.
Not right. The 12m was those players only previously mentioned. There were others named that mean in income generated in the last 5 years is £27.5m (2016/17 inclusive)
Not sure I understand this move being for coaching and opportunity reasons... Perhaps there's more to it but as someone stated above, Brighton have a buttload of keepers, aren't in the top 20 for producing Premier League players and meanwhile we're equal with Barcelona.
Even historically Brighton is a poor academy. I hope the lad doesn't live to regret it.
That table is pretty nice to look at.
We may be bottom of that league, but no other academy at our level has produced as many current PL players as ours. In addition, a good number of higher level (PL & Champ) clubs have only produced 5 or less!
So who are our six?
Pope Gomez Konsa Shelvey Lookman (Was Karlan the other?)
Jeremy Sarmiento was with us until he was about 16, would he count if there was a list for this season?
more than that but this wasn't all about money and again, i could go into more but won't atm as i don't think it will help matters right now but i'm confident that things are getting sorted out and the future will be bright with jacko at the wheel
Even if we were Cat 1 who is to say he still wouldn’t have made this move. Maybe he sees a clearer path to first team football at Brighton.
I gave the example of Freddie Woodman, who only made his debut for Newcastle at 24 after leaving the Palace academy at a young age to go to the North East with his Dad Andy and when the Dad dancer got the gig.
Freddie was the England keeper similar to James Beadle at 16 but has had numerous loans( Swansea for 2 seasons) and it's still not clear if he will end up as the number 1 at Newcastle.
I said to Freddie (went to my son's school) to come to Cafc when he was 13, but Andy Woodman, who was Cafc keeper coach didn't want to move him from Palace at that time.
The Irony is James Beadle will have more chance of playing for Brighton before he is 21 in the League, if they are in the Championship. That shouldn't happen under Potter and Bloom (relegation)
Even if we were Cat 1 who is to say he still wouldn’t have made this move. Maybe he sees a clearer path to first team football at Brighton.
I gave the example of Freddie Woodman, who only made his debut for Newcastle at 24 after leaving the Palace academy at a young age to go to the North East with his Dad Andy and when the Dad dancer got the gig.
Freddie was the England keeper similar to James Beadle at 16 but has had numerous loans( Swansea for 2 seasons) and it's still not clear if he will end up as the number 1 at Newcastle.
I said to Freddie (went to my son's school) to come to Cafc when he was 13, but Andy Woodman, who was Cafc keeper coach didn't want to move him from Palace at that time.
The Irony is James Beadle will have more chance of playing for Brighton before he is 21 in the League, if they are in the Championship. That shouldn't happen under Potter and Bloom (relegation)
I posted earlier in this thread that Brighton already have a wealth of keepers, 5 of them aged 26 and under, including one who is a Spanish international, 1 an England U21 international and another with England U19. Beadle himself is an England youth keeper as well.
Just goes to show how hard it is to make it as a keeper, as obviously only 1 can ever play and with Sanchez himself only 24 they will have 3 talented England youth keepers not playing.
Even if we were Cat 1 who is to say he still wouldn’t have made this move. Maybe he sees a clearer path to first team football at Brighton.
I gave the example of Freddie Woodman, who only made his debut for Newcastle at 24 after leaving the Palace academy at a young age to go to the North East with his Dad Andy and when the Dad dancer got the gig.
Freddie was the England keeper similar to James Beadle at 16 but has had numerous loans( Swansea for 2 seasons) and it's still not clear if he will end up as the number 1 at Newcastle.
I said to Freddie (went to my son's school) to come to Cafc when he was 13, but Andy Woodman, who was Cafc keeper coach didn't want to move him from Palace at that time.
The Irony is James Beadle will have more chance of playing for Brighton before he is 21 in the League, if they are in the Championship. That shouldn't happen under Potter and Bloom (relegation)
I posted earlier in this thread that Brighton already have a wealth of keepers, 5 of them aged 26 and under, including one who is a Spanish international, 1 an England U21 international and another with England U19. Beadle himself is an England youth keeper as well.
Just goes to show how hard it is to make it as a keeper, as obviously only 1 can ever play and with Sanchez himself only 24 they will have 3 talented England youth keepers not playing.
Chris, good research. Yes, I read what you said before but football is such a big business that out of all those keepers Brighton have, they know that most will move on, so they will be looking to develop and then make a profit. James has a long road ahead.
I get to see quite a few youth matches, and a while back I watched a Kinetic academy side beat Dulwich Hamlet and I liked the look of the Hamlet keeper called Henry. He had attitude and a presence despite Kenetic having a strong team that day with 3 lads that have now signed for pro clubs.
I then found out later from my son that he later signed for Cafc and is called Henry Molyneux; A blond lad with an Irish connection. He was the keeper when Cafc played kinetic at Sparrows lane. Ralfi Hand played for Kinetic that day.
A very good attacking Left back who has represented Romania at youth Level played in that game and who has finally signed a pre contract with a top Scottish club. (Should be announced next Month) because of International delays and the complexities of Brexit. When Purrington was injured I said to the Kinetic Boss Harry Hudson that Cafc were desperate for a young attacking Left back (the lad is a natural Left wing back) but he said two Premier moves had already stalled and broken down over the Clearance issue with the Romania lad who had lived in Italy.
Its interesting . I watched Carl Rushworth who's the England U21 keeper on Brighton's books when he was on loan at Worthing , absolutely fantastic keeper who they paid Halifax six figures for a couple of years ago . These clubs do seem to like to load up on keepers though , does make me wonder if they're not out on loan how many games they actually play if they have say 2/3 U23 keepers.
Sam is right , there's some absolutely fantastic talent at non league level too that's waiting to be snapped up by pro clubs.
Remember Murray saying it when RD took over but not TS. Happy to be corrected.
This is why the news on Cat 1 status is so important and why I was so surprised that news got such a muted response.
According to TS last night we have the 14th best academy. I wasn't at the fans forum so assume this means the 14th most productive but not sure how that is being measured or by whom.
If we're that high up in league one with the disasterous ownership issues where could we go with Cat 1?
Simply it’s another statement he made that hasn’t so far come to fruition and why I’m not a supporter of Sandgaard.
Assume you supported ESI? Duchatelet? the spivs?
So if he had kept his aspirations for the club to himself would you give him your support, or would you say you didn't support him because you didn't know what his plans or visions were?
Remember Murray saying it when RD took over but not TS. Happy to be corrected.
This is why the news on Cat 1 status is so important and why I was so surprised that news got such a muted response.
According to TS last night we have the 14th best academy. I wasn't at the fans forum so assume this means the 14th most productive but not sure how that is being measured or by whom.
If we're that high up in league one with the disasterous ownership issues where could we go with Cat 1?
Simply it’s another statement he made that hasn’t so far come to fruition and why I’m not a supporter of Sandgaard.
Assume you supported ESI? Duchatelet? the spivs?
So if he had kept his aspirations for the club to himself would you give him your support, or would you say you didn't support him because you didn't know what his plans or visions were?
Of course not ... don't be such a wally!
Yes, would prefer if he kept his thoughts to himself, to appropriately manage fans expectations - you only took one line of the post the rest simply said I won't hold much faith in what he says until proven as he's made a good few statements that haven't come to fruition, to why get all excited about this one?
I prefer my leaders to steer from behind and not be out front giving it the big one. Just my opinion.
Why would he? Any more than we didn't fancy giving his brother a contract. Football is a two way street. He's probably done as much as we could expect given the circumstances and with a percentage of any future transfer/international recognition that is more than we might otherwise have got out of the situation.
Good player, unfortunately for us leaving to go to what has to be said is a good club, it has to be said it’s because they’re much much richer right now. Best wishes to James, and to Brighton when he plays for them (not against us). I reckon his football progress would’ve been better with us, but not his financial progress, but we have more than one decent goalkeeper coming through. If it is true that somehow James has done a bit to get us a bit of the tv/premiership/Brighton money then well done to him. No bitterness in this, just a bit of regret.
It was signed a week ago. He and his family have ensured that CAFC has done well out of the deal. Best of luck in all you do James.
Correct, last Tuesday he signed and my guess is that this bit of negative news (albeit James and family did ensure Charlton did well out of the deal) has been timed to be buried beneath the Jacko appointment news which will hopefully follow in short order.
Good player, unfortunately for us leaving to go to what has to be said is a good club, it has to be said it’s because they’re much much richer right now. Best wishes to James, and to Brighton when he plays for them (not against us). I reckon his football progress would’ve been better with us, but not his financial progress, but we have more than one decent goalkeeper coming through. If it is true that somehow James has done a bit to get us a bit of the tv/premiership/Brighton money then well done to him. No bitterness in this, just a bit of regret.
Why?
Because our keeping coaches are better - doubtful. Because he will be in our first team sooner - doubtful again given not just the competition but because history with the likes of Pope, Elliott, Randolph and Phillips didn't do so 'til they were 22 plus. Because he will end up being loaned out to a League 2/Conference/Scottish Club - doubtful again as more likely he will go to a Championship or League 1 club when the time is right Because of international recognition - the competition gets more severe as he gets older and there is more likelihood of him playing for the U21s when at Brighton than with us
So from both a financial and footballing perspective it is better for him to move to a PL Club
It was signed a week ago. He and his family have ensured that CAFC has done well out of the deal. Best of luck in all you do James.
Correct, last Tuesday he signed and my guess is that this bit of negative news (albeit James and family did ensure Charlton did well out of the deal) has been timed to be buried beneath the Jacko appointment news which will hopefully follow in short order.
I doubt many will see it as negative news, most fans won't even know who he is. Certainly not negative enough to be 'buried' on a good news day.
Comments
Reality is that much of the income generation said to come from the academy in recent years has come from Lookman, Pope, Fosu, Aribo etc. None of which came through the academy.
Add to that the EPPP shite and the fact that PL clubs like Brighton and Palace have recently realised they can follow Chelsea and create a business model around nipping in to pick up the best kids from lower league academies meaning it becomes more and more difficult to retain them at 17.
Then there is the cost of running it - how much is that a year?
With Grant, Gomez, Konsa, Ajeyi, Doughty, Sarmiento and Palmer we have probably had as good a run as ever yet realised what £8M from that lot. Deduct costs of running it and I am not sure we have made that much cash for such an incredible talent purple patch. I know our U17/18 squad looks phenomenal but to keep the quality so high will be increasingly difficult given where footy has gone.
as I said before we don’t know as much as we’d like to with how transfer fees work
these grants increase when we get Cat 1 status
The other side of the coin is those lost like Abraham and Sacrimento lost before they even reached 17.
If you keep losing valuable coins from your trousers you get the pocket repaired.
Of course if we hadn't run the academy we could have invested that £7.5 - £10M in transfer fees and wages instead and who's to say we would not have picked up some tradable gems from that.
To be clear, I would hate us to close the academy. But each time one of our most promising kids leaves for little return I would be thinking about it if I was the owner.
I just came on this thread to make an, what I thought was, outstanding point that I have been mulling over all day. Then you bring up 3 examples that blow it out the water.
What I was going to say is the problem with our academy/youth set up is that we don't produce enough players of the right level. Then you produce Phillips, Grant and Dijksteel.
What I was going to say is that the players are either too good that they get snapped up before they can help progress the club or they aren't good enough for what we are. If they had come through now we probably wouldn't have lost those 3 though so that's probably an ownership issue?
I gave the example of Freddie Woodman, who only made his debut for Newcastle at 24 after leaving the Palace academy at a young age to go to the North East with his Dad Andy and when the Dad dancer got the gig.
Freddie was the England keeper similar to James Beadle at 16 but has had numerous loans( Swansea for 2 seasons) and it's still not clear if he will end up as the number 1 at Newcastle.
I said to Freddie (went to my son's school) to come to Cafc when he was 13, but Andy Woodman, who was Cafc keeper coach didn't want to move him from Palace at that time.
The Irony is James Beadle will have more chance of playing for Brighton before he is 21 in the League, if they are in the Championship. That shouldn't happen under Potter and Bloom (relegation)
Just goes to show how hard it is to make it as a keeper, as obviously only 1 can ever play and with Sanchez himself only 24 they will have 3 talented England youth keepers not playing.
Chris, good research.
Yes, I read what you said before but football is such a big business that out of all those keepers Brighton have, they know that most will move on, so they will be looking to develop and then make a profit. James has a long road ahead.
I get to see quite a few youth matches, and a while back I watched a Kinetic academy side beat Dulwich Hamlet and I liked the look of the Hamlet keeper called Henry.
He had attitude and a presence despite Kenetic having a strong team that day with 3 lads that have now signed for pro clubs.
I then found out later from my son that he later signed for Cafc and is called Henry Molyneux; A blond lad with an Irish connection. He was the keeper when Cafc played kinetic at Sparrows lane.
Ralfi Hand played for Kinetic that day.
A very good attacking Left back who has represented Romania at youth Level played in that game and who has finally signed a pre contract with a top Scottish club. (Should be announced next Month) because of International delays and the complexities of Brexit. When Purrington was injured I said to the Kinetic Boss Harry Hudson that Cafc were desperate for a young attacking Left back (the lad is a natural Left wing back) but he said two Premier moves had already stalled and broken down over the Clearance issue with the Romania lad who had lived in Italy.
Sam is right , there's some absolutely fantastic talent at non league level too that's waiting to be snapped up by pro clubs.
So if he had kept his aspirations for the club to himself would you give him your support, or would you say you didn't support him because you didn't know what his plans or visions were?
Yes, would prefer if he kept his thoughts to himself, to appropriately manage fans expectations - you only took one line of the post the rest simply said I won't hold much faith in what he says until proven as he's made a good few statements that haven't come to fruition, to why get all excited about this one?
I prefer my leaders to steer from behind and not be out front giving it the big one. Just my opinion.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/brighton-set-to-complete-deal-for-charlton-athletic-keeper-james-beadle/
Best wishes to James, and to Brighton when he plays for them (not against us). I reckon his football progress would’ve been better with us, but not his financial progress, but we have more than one decent goalkeeper coming through.
If it is true that somehow James has done a bit to get us a bit of the tv/premiership/Brighton money then well done to him.
No bitterness in this, just a bit of regret.
Because our keeping coaches are better - doubtful.
Because he will be in our first team sooner - doubtful again given not just the competition but because history with the likes of Pope, Elliott, Randolph and Phillips didn't do so 'til they were 22 plus.
Because he will end up being loaned out to a League 2/Conference/Scottish Club - doubtful again as more likely he will go to a Championship or League 1 club when the time is right
Because of international recognition - the competition gets more severe as he gets older and there is more likelihood of him playing for the U21s when at Brighton than with us
So from both a financial and footballing perspective it is better for him to move to a PL Club