The contract signifies the loyalty both parties show to each other and we only offered him a contract that ends at the end of this season.
It's like you want to be contrarian - we all know how parties have been handled by Duchatalet and the ESI mob, but if you can't see how much different it is under Sandgaard then I really don't know what to say to you.
Can't really blame him for moving. It's better for his career and his bank balance, no brainer.
Personally I try not to criticise players for a lack of loyalty generally. In this sort of case I'd like to see a player sign a new contract with release clauses. Something like 1mil if we don't get promoted and 3-4mil generally. That retains some loyalty and ensures the club get a fairer deal.
The contract signifies the loyalty both parties show to each other and we only offered him a contract that ends at the end of this season.
It's like you want to be contrarian - we all know how parties have been handled by Duchatalet and the ESI mob, but if you can't see how much different it is under Sandgaard then I really don't know what to say to you.
Our ownership issues aren't AD's fault and now he has a much bigger offer on the table. If I was in his shoes I'd take it.
How long was his first contract at Charlton - 2 years? Comes through our academy soaking up free tuition, gets given his chance of first team football early, spends 50% of his contract getting paid whilst injured. Refuses to sign a new one. Thanks for the memories Alfie.
Spot on. Young players like Doughty showing a complete lack of loyalty to the club that's developed them pisses me off more than most things in football.
Never really understand this argument. My bro in law just finished his apprenticeship at Ford, how long does he have to stay there out of loyalty then?
Footballers aren’t supporters, they treat their club the same way we treat our employers, they move when bigger money and opportunities come along.
How can you compare Ford with your football club
I don't suppose Ford picked your brother out of a kids team of child automobile workers and took a chance on him, trained him up for free for X amount of years, gave him his first job, or that Ford has a history of depending upon raising these kids and getting fees for them for survival?
Why are some so willing to embrace the increasing soullessness of our sport
They’re both business’ who offer apprenticeships.
That’s the way it is I don’t make the rules, the idea that young players shouldn’t move to probably quadruple their pay cos “loyalty” is absurd.
If we're a business does that make me a customer
It’s not about you pal, we’re talking about Alfie, and he’s an employee, not a supporter.
One thing I have to say about Doughty. His goals and assists usually came at key moments. They were the difference between a point or 3 points generally. Really hoping Miller can bring this clinical trait. We know Maddison can but for some reason has been used as bit part once fit.
We really need to stop comparing football to other types of businesses. There is no comparison. Football exists in its own little bubble of passionate onlookers and insane payment figures. It would be nice for us if Alfie stuck around but less nice for his bank balance, his agent's bank balance and the team who want to sign him. Our benefit in this does not have to reflect on the person involved, but as always in football the fans end up emotionally speaking being the victims of decisions that are made out of their control. Selling a club, picking a certain line-up, making a substitution that backfires, picking an away shirt colour that's not very nice, there's hundreds of decisions that get made at football clubs big and small that we just have to sit and watch. It's the way it is unfortunately. Alfie can approach this offer from many different ways, he could feel that he wants to stay because it's his home, he could see a move to a higher division as a chance to challenge himself, he could see the money as a huge incentive or he could sign the biggest deal on offer because he's scared that he won't be the same after his injury. Some might argue that he was on loan at Bromley before we gave him a chance in The Championship and he owes us, he might say that he only got that chance because of desperation through injuries and he's more than earned a move through his own work and talent. All these approaches are valid even if one hurts us.
How long was his first contract at Charlton - 2 years? Comes through our academy soaking up free tuition, gets given his chance of first team football early, spends 50% of his contract getting paid whilst injured. Refuses to sign a new one. Thanks for the memories Alfie.
Spot on. Young players like Doughty showing a complete lack of loyalty to the club that's developed them pisses me off more than most things in football.
Never really understand this argument. My bro in law just finished his apprenticeship at Ford, how long does he have to stay there out of loyalty then?
Footballers aren’t supporters, they treat their club the same way we treat our employers, they move when bigger money and opportunities come along.
How can you compare Ford with your football club
I don't suppose Ford picked your brother out of a kids team of child automobile workers and took a chance on him, trained him up for free for X amount of years, gave him his first job, or that Ford has a history of depending upon raising these kids and getting fees for them for survival?
Why are some so willing to embrace the increasing soullessness of our sport
Apparently they plucked him from school at the mere age of R5 they could see then how driven he was and how it was best to get him in the fast Lane straight away he was destined for the very soft top
How long was his first contract at Charlton - 2 years? Comes through our academy soaking up free tuition, gets given his chance of first team football early, spends 50% of his contract getting paid whilst injured. Refuses to sign a new one. Thanks for the memories Alfie.
Spot on. Young players like Doughty showing a complete lack of loyalty to the club that's developed them pisses me off more than most things in football.
Never really understand this argument. My bro in law just finished his apprenticeship at Ford, how long does he have to stay there out of loyalty then?
Footballers aren’t supporters, they treat their club the same way we treat our employers, they move when bigger money and opportunities come along.
How can you compare Ford with your football club
I don't suppose Ford picked your brother out of a kids team of child automobile workers and took a chance on him, trained him up for free for X amount of years, gave him his first job, or that Ford has a history of depending upon raising these kids and getting fees for them for survival?
Why are some so willing to embrace the increasing soullessness of our sport
Indeed there's a part of me that wonders why we bother having an academy in a era of Bosman, low compensation and even less if they go abroad
Get a wonderkid and they'll be tapped up before they sign their first youth contract
Give someone reasonable and unless you give them a ludicrously long contract, their agents will immediately start touting them around
Brentford gave up on their academy, and just sign talented 16+ young players. They've made more money out of players like Konsa than we did
How long was his first contract at Charlton - 2 years? Comes through our academy soaking up free tuition, gets given his chance of first team football early, spends 50% of his contract getting paid whilst injured. Refuses to sign a new one. Thanks for the memories Alfie.
Spot on. Young players like Doughty showing a complete lack of loyalty to the club that's developed them pisses me off more than most things in football.
Never really understand this argument. My bro in law just finished his apprenticeship at Ford, how long does he have to stay there out of loyalty then?
Footballers aren’t supporters, they treat their club the same way we treat our employers, they move when bigger money and opportunities come along.
How can you compare Ford with your football club
I don't suppose Ford picked your brother out of a kids team of child automobile workers and took a chance on him, trained him up for free for X amount of years, gave him his first job, or that Ford has a history of depending upon raising these kids and getting fees for them for survival?
Why are some so willing to embrace the increasing soullessness of our sport
Football has become "soulless" but that cuts both ways.
For every Doughty there will be a dozen kids who have committed their young lives to becoming pros but are let go. That's all they ever wanted to do. They've travelled the country, made personal sacrifices to not go out with their mates and possibly even allowed their academic work to suffer as a result.
Or someone like Lapslie who is being told he isn't good enough. And he's a fan. But who really cares enough about him? Apart from those close to him probably very few.
I don't see many threads about how unfair we have treated them but plenty about how selfish a young player is in leaving the club or refusing to sign a contract for less than he might command in a career that will probably only last another 10 years or so.
The other point is that football is now, more than ever, a business. Doughty is a commodity or an investment. A commodity that has been mismanaged in the sense that the Club failed to secure him on a long term contract. As it did with Grant, Phillips etc etc. If it had managed the situation correctly then we might be talking about millions rather than hundreds of thousands for Doughty and it is that money which keeps a club going. And with most investments some go down in value and others go up but if you fail to look after that commodity the value will only go one way.
We have very few saleable assets left now. If we are so attached to these academy boys perhaps we should be asking the question why they have virtually all gone now because, with the exception of Morgan who can't get a regular start, currently we have a squad of journeymen. I'm really struggling to think of any others because Barker, having done really well, at the start of the season has been displaced by a 35 year old central midfielder and Vennings will be 21 in May and has started one League game - not just for us but for anyone!
How long was his first contract at Charlton - 2 years? Comes through our academy soaking up free tuition, gets given his chance of first team football early, spends 50% of his contract getting paid whilst injured. Refuses to sign a new one. Thanks for the memories Alfie.
Spot on. Young players like Doughty showing a complete lack of loyalty to the club that's developed them pisses me off more than most things in football.
Never really understand this argument. My bro in law just finished his apprenticeship at Ford, how long does he have to stay there out of loyalty then?
Footballers aren’t supporters, they treat their club the same way we treat our employers, they move when bigger money and opportunities come along.
How can you compare Ford with your football club
I don't suppose Ford picked your brother out of a kids team of child automobile workers and took a chance on him, trained him up for free for X amount of years, gave him his first job, or that Ford has a history of depending upon raising these kids and getting fees for them for survival?
Why are some so willing to embrace the increasing soullessness of our sport
Football has become "soulless" but that cuts both ways.
For every Doughty there will be a dozen kids who have committed their young lives to becoming pros but are let go. That's all they ever wanted to do. They've travelled the country, made personal sacrifices to not go out with their mates and possibly even allowed their academic work to suffer as a result.
Or someone like Lapslie who is being told he isn't good enough. And he's a fan. But who really cares enough about him? Apart from those close to him probably very few.
I don't see many threads about how unfair we have treated them but plenty about how selfish a young player is in leaving the club or refusing to sign a contract for less than he might command in a career that will probably only last another 10 years or so.
The other point is that football is now, more than ever, a business. Doughty is a commodity or an investment. A commodity that has been mismanaged in the sense that the Club failed to secure him on a long term contract. As it did with Grant, Phillips etc etc. If it had managed the situation correctly then we might be talking about millions rather than hundreds of thousands for Doughty and it is that money which keeps a club going. And with most investments some go down in value and others go up but if you fail to look after that commodity the value will only go one way.
We have very few saleable assets left now. If we are so attached to these academy boys perhaps we should be asking the question why they have virtually all gone now because, with the exception of Morgan who can't get a regular start, currently we have a squad of journeymen. I'm really struggling to think of any others because Barker, having done really well, at the start of the season has been displaced by a 35 year old central midfielder and Vennings will be 21 in May and has started one League game - not just for us but for anyone!
Those youngsters have had loads of free training from the club, in something which they love to do. You wouldn't get 10 years of free lessons to play the violin or piano, or to go to drama school. And the clubs help them study as well, especially in areas like personal training or sports science
And it's not as the released players are ruined for life. They might get other clubs or get jobs as gym instructors or football coaches.
And you say we should gave secured him on a long term contract, but when? We offered him a much better contract with a year to go, are we now expected to give every youngster a fat 5 year deal because they had a couple of good games?
How long was his first contract at Charlton - 2 years? Comes through our academy soaking up free tuition, gets given his chance of first team football early, spends 50% of his contract getting paid whilst injured. Refuses to sign a new one. Thanks for the memories Alfie.
Spot on. Young players like Doughty showing a complete lack of loyalty to the club that's developed them pisses me off more than most things in football.
Never really understand this argument. My bro in law just finished his apprenticeship at Ford, how long does he have to stay there out of loyalty then?
Footballers aren’t supporters, they treat their club the same way we treat our employers, they move when bigger money and opportunities come along.
How can you compare Ford with your football club
I don't suppose Ford picked your brother out of a kids team of child automobile workers and took a chance on him, trained him up for free for X amount of years, gave him his first job, or that Ford has a history of depending upon raising these kids and getting fees for them for survival?
Why are some so willing to embrace the increasing soullessness of our sport
Football has become "soulless" but that cuts both ways.
For every Doughty there will be a dozen kids who have committed their young lives to becoming pros but are let go. That's all they ever wanted to do. They've travelled the country, made personal sacrifices to not go out with their mates and possibly even allowed their academic work to suffer as a result.
Or someone like Lapslie who is being told he isn't good enough. And he's a fan. But who really cares enough about him? Apart from those close to him probably very few.
I don't see many threads about how unfair we have treated them but plenty about how selfish a young player is in leaving the club or refusing to sign a contract for less than he might command in a career that will probably only last another 10 years or so.
The other point is that football is now, more than ever, a business. Doughty is a commodity or an investment. A commodity that has been mismanaged in the sense that the Club failed to secure him on a long term contract. As it did with Grant, Phillips etc etc. If it had managed the situation correctly then we might be talking about millions rather than hundreds of thousands for Doughty and it is that money which keeps a club going. And with most investments some go down in value and others go up but if you fail to look after that commodity the value will only go one way.
We have very few saleable assets left now. If we are so attached to these academy boys perhaps we should be asking the question why they have virtually all gone now because, with the exception of Morgan who can't get a regular start, currently we have a squad of journeymen. I'm really struggling to think of any others because Barker, having done really well, at the start of the season has been displaced by a 35 year old central midfielder and Vennings will be 21 in May and has started one League game - not just for us but for anyone!
Those youngsters have had loads of free training from the club, in something which they love to do. You wouldn't get 10 years of free lessons to play the violin or piano, or to go to drama school. And the clubs help them study as well, especially in areas like personal training or sports science
And it's not as the released players are ruined for life. They might get other clubs or get jobs as gym instructors or football coaches.
And you say we should gave secured him on a long term contract, but when? We offered him a much better contract with a year to go, are we now expected to give every youngster a fat 5 year deal because they had a couple of good games?
I've seen many that have been severely scarred because their dream is, effectively, over. Their dream wasn't to become a gym instructor. There is a reason why we offer the free training - because football at the top is big money and when you can invest thousands in a youngster and get back millions it is worth doing - and if we didn't do it then other clubs will.
The contract doesn't have to be 5 years but I would suggest, in any event, that any contract put in front of Doughty was not a competitive one. Otherwise he would have signed it wouldn't he? It clearly wasn't the much better than his previous one.
When we are looking to sign those very young players at 10 or 11 one of our major selling points has been that we can point to x, y and z who have come through the system and are now in our first team. Who are x, y and z now? What is our unique selling point that makes us so more desirable than going to another club? All we can point to is the likes of Doughty, Grant, Konsa, Gomez and say if you join us we will give you the opportunity to join a club higher up the food chain.
Let’s face the facts here. Alfie wants out. His agent seems to be the type that wants his players moving as soon as there is a glimpse of silver. Alfie’s obviously not opposed to it either despite I suspect him being better off for his development staying put. He walks free in the summer. If there is a few quid to be made right now then the club should cash in. Don’t wish him anything other than a successful career so good luck to him but I won’t be rushing to clap him should he return to play for an opponent. Best for all now if he just leaves as quickly as possible and the money we get can be used elsewhere with someone who wants to play for the club. Bye Alfie. Close the door on your way out.
To be honest, if I was a young player who relied almost entirely on my pace and I tore my hamstring I’d be signing the highest value, longest contract I could as soon as it was offered up. What if some people are right and he actually has lost some serious pace when he comes back? In that case the sensible thing for him to do is sign with Stoke now before it’s proven either way and then sit on maybe the biggest contract he’s ever going to get until it runs out. If he’s kept his pace then he’s on more money. If he’s lost his pace then, well, they’re stuck with him
Surely no club can agree a price before analysing the results of a medical?
Let’s face the facts here. Alfie wants out. His agent seems to be the type that wants his players moving as soon as there is a glimpse of silver. Alfie’s obviously not opposed to it either despite I suspect him being better off for his development staying put. He walks free in the summer. If there is a few quid to be made right now then the club should cash in. Don’t wish him anything other than a successful career so good luck to him but I won’t be rushing to clap him should he return to play for an opponent. Best for all now if he just leaves as quickly as possible and the money we get can be used elsewhere with someone who wants to play for the club. Bye Alfie. Close the door on your way out.
Let’s face the facts here. Alfie wants out. His agent seems to be the type that wants his players moving as soon as there is a glimpse of silver. Alfie’s obviously not opposed to it either despite I suspect him being better off for his development staying put. He walks free in the summer. If there is a few quid to be made right now then the club should cash in. Don’t wish him anything other than a successful career so good luck to him but I won’t be rushing to clap him should he return to play for an opponent. Best for all now if he just leaves as quickly as possible and the money we get can be used elsewhere with someone who wants to play for the club. Bye Alfie. Close the door on your way out.
Comments
Personally I try not to criticise players for a lack of loyalty generally. In this sort of case I'd like to see a player sign a new contract with release clauses. Something like 1mil if we don't get promoted and 3-4mil generally. That retains some loyalty and ensures the club get a fairer deal.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/liam-lindsay/profil/spieler/228912
https://www.barnsleychronicle.com/article/14685/liam-dropped-after-50-starts-to-have-right-and-left-footers
Get a wonderkid and they'll be tapped up before they sign their first youth contract
Give someone reasonable and unless you give them a ludicrously long contract, their agents will immediately start touting them around
Brentford gave up on their academy, and just sign talented 16+ young players. They've made more money out of players like Konsa than we did
It's like a chippy that can only cut with one saw!
For every Doughty there will be a dozen kids who have committed their young lives to becoming pros but are let go. That's all they ever wanted to do. They've travelled the country, made personal sacrifices to not go out with their mates and possibly even allowed their academic work to suffer as a result.
Or someone like Lapslie who is being told he isn't good enough. And he's a fan. But who really cares enough about him? Apart from those close to him probably very few.
I don't see many threads about how unfair we have treated them but plenty about how selfish a young player is in leaving the club or refusing to sign a contract for less than he might command in a career that will probably only last another 10 years or so.
The other point is that football is now, more than ever, a business. Doughty is a commodity or an investment. A commodity that has been mismanaged in the sense that the Club failed to secure him on a long term contract. As it did with Grant, Phillips etc etc. If it had managed the situation correctly then we might be talking about millions rather than hundreds of thousands for Doughty and it is that money which keeps a club going. And with most investments some go down in value and others go up but if you fail to look after that commodity the value will only go one way.
We have very few saleable assets left now. If we are so attached to these academy boys perhaps we should be asking the question why they have virtually all gone now because, with the exception of Morgan who can't get a regular start, currently we have a squad of journeymen. I'm really struggling to think of any others because Barker, having done really well, at the start of the season has been displaced by a 35 year old central midfielder and Vennings will be 21 in May and has started one League game - not just for us but for anyone!
I was relying on Transfermkt.
And it's not as the released players are ruined for life. They might get other clubs or get jobs as gym instructors or football coaches.
And you say we should gave secured him on a long term contract, but when? We offered him a much better contract with a year to go, are we now expected to give every youngster a fat 5 year deal because they had a couple of good games?
The contract doesn't have to be 5 years but I would suggest, in any event, that any contract put in front of Doughty was not a competitive one. Otherwise he would have signed it wouldn't he? It clearly wasn't the much better than his previous one.
When we are looking to sign those very young players at 10 or 11 one of our major selling points has been that we can point to x, y and z who have come through the system and are now in our first team. Who are x, y and z now? What is our unique selling point that makes us so more desirable than going to another club? All we can point to is the likes of Doughty, Grant, Konsa, Gomez and say if you join us we will give you the opportunity to join a club higher up the food chain.
And that is where we are at now.
Same here - how is he going to pass the medical ?