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Set-Pieces - a long standing issue?

Six-a-bag-of-nutsSix-a-bag-of-nuts
edited August 2023 in General Charlton
Based on Bowyer saying that set-pieces are JJ's responsibility.
I don't know the stats but my basic feeling is we concede too many and score too few.
The only successful routine that springs to mind was the one where a low corner was taken, diverted out at the near post and swept home by an incoming Gallagher from the edge of the box.
Generally I expect nothing from our attacking corners and am rarely surprised.
And don't get me started on short corners, where the closest we get to a "successful" one is when the ball ends up a Phillips feet.
Should JJ be taken to task? What are your thoughts? 
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    CallumcafcCallumcafc
    edited December 2019
    We are 13th in goals scored from set pieces. (No prizes for guessing who's in 1st place)

    We are 10th in goals conceded from set pieces.

    Those are just raw numbers. Not sure how it stacks up per set piece taken or defended.
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    Six-a-bag-of-nutsSix-a-bag-of-nuts
    LenGlover said:
    Personnel changes don't help. I think until the injury situation settles down it is harsh to point any fingers.
    That's a sound point on the personnel changes Len - but it seems to me a issue that goes back before all the recent injury upheaval.
    And surely you practise routines with whatever personnel are expecting to play on the Saturday?
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    Six-a-bag-of-nutsSix-a-bag-of-nuts
    Callumcafc said:
    We are 13th in goals scored from set pieces. (No prizes for guessing who's in 1st place)

    We are 10th in goals conceded from set pieces.

    Those are just raw numbers. Not sure how it stacks up per set piece taken or defended.
    Hmm, interesting stats @Callumcafc.
    I can't even remember the last time we scored a headed goal from a corner.
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    CallumcafcCallumcafc
    edited December 2019
    Naby Sarr vs. Derby unless there was one more recently. Very well worked it was too to get him free at the back post. But guess who delivered the ball into the box? Josh Cullen...
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    ricky_ottoricky_otto
    Our defending of set pieces leaves a lot to be desired. I’m also not keen on Phillips choosing to punch as much as he does - he did it yesterday when he could just as easily caught it. 
    Attacking set pieces and throw ins are pretty shit as well.  I never think we are going to score from a corner or a free kick. Totally agree with the OP about short corners. Get the ball in to the box ffs.

    It’s not just down to Jackson though, Bowyer and Marshall all take responsibility. 
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    CallumcafcCallumcafc
    edited December 2019
    Callumcafc said:
    Naby Sarr vs. Derby unless there was one more recently.

    Leko at Millwall is the most recent goal we've scored from a set piece situation.
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    happyvalleyhappyvalley
    ricky_otto said:
    Our defending of set pieces leaves a lot to be desired. I’m also not keen on Phillips choosing to punch as much as he does - he did it yesterday when he could just as easily caught it. 
    Attacking set pieces and throw ins are pretty shit as well.  I never think we are going to score from a corner or a free kick. Totally agree with the OP about short corners. Get the ball in to the box ffs.

    It’s not just down to Jackson though, Bowyer and Marshall all take responsibility. 
    Short corners do my head in as well. What is the point when your big defenders come up for the corner & there's no guarantee of the ball arriving in the box.
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    Six-a-bag-of-nutsSix-a-bag-of-nuts
    ricky_otto said:
    Our defending of set pieces leaves a lot to be desired. I’m also not keen on Phillips choosing to punch as much as he does - he did it yesterday when he could just as easily caught it. 
    Attacking set pieces and throw ins are pretty shit as well.  I never think we are going to score from a corner or a free kick. Totally agree with the OP about short corners. Get the ball in to the box ffs.

    It’s not just down to Jackson though, Bowyer and Marshall all take responsibility. 
    Agree with your point about Phillips punching, but it seems to be the modern way with goalkeepers for whatever reason.
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    LenGloverLenGlover
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    LenGlover said:
    Personnel changes don't help. I think until the injury situation settles down it is harsh to point any fingers.
    That's a sound point on the personnel changes Len - but it seems to me a issue that goes back before all the recent injury upheaval.
    And surely you practise routines with whatever personnel are expecting to play on the Saturday?
    Yes provided that they don't go down injured or ill in the meantime. Purrington last week for instance. 
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    Six-a-bag-of-nutsSix-a-bag-of-nuts
    Henry Irving said:
    Some people never learn.

    Just as @hoof_it_up_to_benty was constantly reminded that JJ still had lots to offer this thread will be bumped every time we score from a set piece.

    Will disappear without trace then?  ;)

    I'm sure JJ has lot's to offer, he is but a novice to coaching.
    Doesn't mean he shouldn't be held up to scrutiny of course.
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    LincsaddickLincsaddick
    just an observation .. Brighton won at Arsenal 2-1 .. at the finish, hanging on to their lead, they had FOUR central defenders on the field, Burn, Webster, Dunk and Duffy, the 'midget' of the four was Webster at 6'3" ..
     we lack height in both attack and defence despite the presence of Sarr who has created one goal from a corner that I can recall. The problem is his lack of ability when defending crosses and that is his main job. Bonne has scored with a couple of very nice headers.
    Presumably the Addicks tacticians have to work around this lack of aerial ability when working on both defensive and attacking strateagies. Our ability in the air won us the Wembley play off game, Pearce as much as Bauer



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    Six-a-bag-of-nutsSix-a-bag-of-nuts
    Lincsaddick said:
    just an observation .. Brighton won at Arsenal 2-1 .. at the finish, hanging on to their lead, they had FOUR central defenders on the field, Burn, Webster, Dunk and Duffy, the 'midget' of the four was Webster at 6'3" ..
     we lack height in both attack and defence despite the presence of Sarr who has created one goal from a corner that I can recall. The problem is his lack of ability when defending crosses and that is his main job. Bonne has scored with a couple of very nice headers.
    Presumably the Addicks tacticians have to work around this lack of aerial ability when working on both defensive and attacking strateagies. Our ability in the air won us the Wembley play off game, Pearce as much as Bauer



    Could be it's the players that are the issue and not the coaching.
    Either way I think we have substantial room for improvement.
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    LincsaddickLincsaddick
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    just an observation .. Brighton won at Arsenal 2-1 .. at the finish, hanging on to their lead, they had FOUR central defenders on the field, Burn, Webster, Dunk and Duffy, the 'midget' of the four was Webster at 6'3" ..
     we lack height in both attack and defence despite the presence of Sarr who has created one goal from a corner that I can recall. The problem is his lack of ability when defending crosses and that is his main job. Bonne has scored with a couple of very nice headers.
    Presumably the Addicks tacticians have to work around this lack of aerial ability when working on both defensive and attacking strateagies. Our ability in the air won us the Wembley play off game, Pearce as much as Bauer


    Could be it's the players that are the issue and not the coaching.
    Either wa

    y I think we have substantial room for improvement.
    that is my point, in a very roundabout way lol .. coaches/managers must plan tactics around the players they have .. a boxing cliché .. 'a good big un will always beat a good little un' .. goes for most sport in my opinion
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    hoof_it_up_to_bentyhoof_it_up_to_benty
    Henry Irving said:
    Some people never learn.

    Just as @hoof_it_up_to_benty was constantly reminded that JJ still had lots to offer this thread will be bumped every time we score from a set piece.

    You'd probably still have JJ in your starting lineup.
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    N01R4MN01R4M
    Thank you @Ollywozere - very interesting.
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    hoof_it_up_to_bentyhoof_it_up_to_benty
    Ollywozere said:
    https://www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/5cf7762e7ba55/piece-by-set-piece-the-power-of-analysis

    Worth a read...
    Analysis is fine but the players need to have the right technique. Our corners don't seem pacey enough and in terms of free kicks we don't seem to have anyone with the ability that Kermogant and JJ used to have.
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    Henry IrvingHenry Irving
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Ollywozere said:
    https://www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/5cf7762e7ba55/piece-by-set-piece-the-power-of-analysis

    Worth a read...
    Analysis is fine but the players need to have the right technique. Our corners don't seem pacey enough and in terms of free kicks we don't seem to have anyone with the ability that Kermogant and JJ used to have.
    So how does that make, as per the OP,  JJ not up to the job?
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    Henry IrvingHenry Irving
    edited December 2019
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Some people never learn.

    Just as @hoof_it_up_to_benty was constantly reminded that JJ still had lots to offer this thread will be bumped every time we score from a set piece.

    You'd probably still have JJ in your starting lineup.
     Let it go : - :smile:
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    Six-a-bag-of-nutsSix-a-bag-of-nuts
    Ollywozere said:
    https://www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/5cf7762e7ba55/piece-by-set-piece-the-power-of-analysis

    Worth a read...
    Fascinating stuff @Ollywozere, thanks for posting - don't think I'd seen this before.

    It's interesting to me that the article originates during a time last season when we were enjoying a successful spell with our set pieces, which seems to be in stark contrast to this season.
    It's getting to the rub of why that is the case that interests me.

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    stoneroses19stoneroses19
    21 goals from set-pieces was quite unbelievable last season. 
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    aliwibblealiwibble
    24 comments in, and no-one has replied to the question in the title "no, his legs have gone". Lads, I am disappointed in your failure to observe CharltonLife tradition here.
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    MuttleyCAFCMuttleyCAFC
    Yes he is. 
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    Six-a-bag-of-nutsSix-a-bag-of-nuts
    Henry Irving said:
    It's almost as if in a higher division the opposition have better and bigger players than we faced in league one and it's harder to score from and defend set plays as a result.

    Who'd have thought such a thing possible? We truly live in strange times.
    Bigger?
    Better? Yeh, I get that. Maybe the explanation really is that simple.

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    golfaddickgolfaddick
    The recurring tweet from the official CAFC account on matchday is....."corner to Charlton. Cullen/Morgan/JFC swings it in......ball is cleared". Time & time again. Not once have I read....."Cullen swings it in & Lockyer/Pearce/Taylor scores with a bullet header".

    Says it all. 
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