Prague - Would you please STOP attempting to reveal individuals personal names against their user names. That’s twice now in recent weeks. It’s not on.
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
Don’t think anyone thinks that Seth. Maybe you could have explained things a bit better - as could have Bowyer in his pre-match sky chat. People will always take comments how they want to - and usually it’s negative. That is understandable given the last 6 years and having to endure the likes of old dirty teeth, his bint sidekick and that Weasel Murray. We are also in limbo, not really had any real clarity since we heard about the takeover picking up pace. That said, Southall did say they would be making no further comment. Even if he did speak now, what is he going to say? All we know if that the interviews have taken place and Southall has spoken to Bowyer and Co.
All you have done is pass info on that you have heard and how you have read it.
For what it is worth, and as I said, my first post was clumsily written as I stood on a jostling crowd on platform 1 of Charlton station waiting for the 10.06 to Lewisham. I am not slick with mobile telephone typing so my initial post was less clear than I would've liked. I have subsequently tried to clarify whilst maintaining a modicum of discretion. Yesterday evening a lot of posters were abusive towards me, which is fair enough that is their mindset, but I really don't see the big crime I am supposed to have committed. Perhaps the abusive posters will help me by explaining the reason for their abuse.
Seth......you’re an old and trusted poster on here but you were/are wrong to have made your initial post.....I’ll tell you why. Over the years I, like many others, have picked up on stuff from what you would think from pretty reliable sources that I could easily have posted on here but chose not to because they were potentially distressing to the fan base, “especially” when they were not substantiated and simply possibly been spread as idle gossip. What you wrote will have put the shits up many a fan ( myself included) and set off a chain of discontent and genuine apprehension, you admit yourself that what you heard may not be factual, yet still chose to post it.....why ? So what the bloody he’ll was the point Seth.....keep your mouth shut, see if anyone posts something along similar lines (which they haven’t by the way) and then maybe throw your two pennarth into the ring is how I’d have played it. All you have done is to cause distress and anxiety....nice work. Sometimes it’s best just to keep your mouth shut......I’m sorry but I think this has been one of those occasions.
I am sorry. If saying I personally feel less confident put the shits up you all that is your problem not mine. Idle gossip has existed on Charlton Life continually, indeed often welcomed. If on the other hand you wish me to keep my mouth shut, then I will if you will.
I told you I have......and on quite a few occasions over the years.
I suggest you two fellas go for drink next time Mr £ is at the The Valley. I’ll come along, if you two could buy the first 4 rounds, I can then be on my way and leave you to it.
Maybe the strange is about doing a Brentford below first team level (which for us would be a massive mistake). Maybe the strange is a restructure of the player bonus system. We don't know beyond gossip and speculation, which are things I am personally cool about.
i can live with strange - its it not happening that bothers me and i dont really get where these rumours could have come from
Great post @Grapevine49 a very good read and some salient points made. Its time for everyone to sit back and just see what transpires. I would mention, that, in my opinion, our new CEO Matt wouldn't keep showing up, having pictures taken with fans etc and answering 'tweets' if he didn't think it was going to happen. Also I wouldn't think a statement would have been placed on the website two weeks ago if they were not confident either, the reputational damage for those involved would be too high profile and I cant see HE Tahnoon Nimer having his name mentioned if there was ANY doubt. Its time to just wait and look forward to a brighter future, which I'm sure will unfold in due course.
“Strange” can be interpreted in the context of Bowyers comments in a number of ways I think. Innovative, cutting edge, outside the box, or perhaps plain barmy. I really can’t see too much to worry about at this point.
Prague - Would you please STOP attempting to reveal individuals personal names against their user names. That’s twice now in recent weeks. It’s not on.
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
And we expect a Manager to manage successfully in such an unstable environment?
I respect the frustration but heaven knows what some of you
are like in any personal negotiations. I was hopeful after TLs comments people
would starting breathing normally again.
Rumour(s) aside if the deal is right and the buyers are right it will happen. If not
we move on. If the deal hangs on a misplaced word then it will not run its course. Naturally any negative outcome will be difficult for everyone
but sweating over it will make not a jot of difference.
The information we do have, beyond the uncertain world of the Google search, is one formal statement and indications the EFL held interviews with the relevant parties 72 to 48 hrs ago. We have no knowledge of any of the matters arising nor indeed whether such matters involve issues of substance or a box ticking exercise.
Lee Bowyer has indicated the support he wants/ needs to deliver progress for the club. Mr Southall has outlined what he is able to do within the confines of his authority and has certain ideas as to how he proposes to deliver such support. Some of the ideas are "strange" or unusual or new to the manager. You will have to use your own imagination as to what they might be.
EFL officials do have their challenges. Their resources and priorities are governed by its membership. In serving its membership the rules governing approval of any new owners largely follow three of the slightly tongue in cheek but perfectly valid questions raised by Henry. As of today;
Who owns the club?
Subject to EFL approval East Street Investments (ESI) - His Excellency Tahnoon Nimer is the majority shareholder in ESI through his Abu Dhabi based corporation Panama Magic General Contracting LLC and is thus deemed the beneficial owner
What is the business plan?
Nobody secures EFL approval without a financially validated business plan but operationally any investor will need to confirm assumptions in the plan to the reality of owning the club. Such evaluation with Mr Southall apparently in situ appears to be being undertaken in parallel with EFL approval.
How will that plan be funded?
Very good question - the EFL will require evidence of the funds to acquire the club including any deferred or contingent liabilities and then fund 2 years operational trading i.e. fulfil fixtures. For the rest of us? Mind your own business.
The questions re the training ground & academy, The Valley and the exit plan are beyond the immediate remit of the EFL and are for another time. If it helps I do not see either the Valley or Sparrows Lane at risk. For reasons discussed on countless occasions the investment returns involved would be extremely difficult to achieve and are quite simply not there for the foreseeable future.
I regret for those of a nervous disposition we face the situation we for valid reasons may never know the precise nature of the proposed new funding. Indeed I would argue such is the nature of the industry today the EFL regulators though striving to do their best are probably now no longer fit for purpose.
The EFL was never designed to be the Auditor in Chief of or micro manage every member club. It fell into the role in trying to preserve the integrity of its competition. With the breadth of the geographic, financial & cultural divergence in the industry it is on a hiding to nothing. The diversity of wealth of the individual owners, the PL parachute payments and the creative accounting expertise of some present a difficult "circle to square".
Create a multi billion pound industry and multi million pound investment & global investor practices and expectations come with it.
In truth nobody should recognise the landscape better than us. We have the T shirts.
Consider our history with the Glikstens, Hulyer and the Sunley Group.
Fast forward and we have waited 2yrs for an Australian Group and/ or others to put consortia together to acquire the club and keep it competitive. Some laughably derided such efforts because those involved could not or would not stump up £70mn! to buy and fund the club.
Consortia? We have been there. How many investors arrived under the several executive iterations introduced by Mr Murray? Today we still have outstanding ex directors loans made nearly a decade ago.
Want a mega rich owner? Enter M.D. I had no problem with M. Duchatelet or his wealth. I had every problem with the way he structured the clubs funding and the values he displayed in his commitment to the industry, the club and its stakeholders.
How about Smoke & Mirrors? Under Messrs Slater & Jiminez the funding was reputed to be via Mr Cash but in reality the finance allegedly came via BVI family trusts.
This is the reality of the marketplace in which the club has operated for over a decade.
It is not going to change. Even Man City recently sold a 10% stake in the business to bring in over £300mn for further investment. Spurs spent what £1bn on a new stadium?
It is time to stop holding our noses and wake up and smell the coffee. Can we stop maligning potential investors before they even come through the door. Look across the Premier League 75% of clubs have a controlling interest reliant on major corporate or significant overseas investment.
Look at the debt assumed by Slater, Jiminez and Cash in late 2010, then look at the debt assumed by M. Duchatelet in 2014 and now look at the debt to be dealt with today. It ceased to be a corner shop environment a very long time ago.
So while we thirst for clarity we have to recognise such is the level of finance required to function in the industry today few individuals even with the personal resources will step into this space as a "sole" trader. Indeed as we have seen even those who do come with their own baggage whether it be the Mr 2% approach of a M. Duchatelet or the allegedly creative accountancy of a Mr Chansiri. Each challenges the EFL regulatory process.
Individual wealth is important but will not determine our future. Integrity, value set and the level of funds committed to the club will.
HE Tahnoon Nimer has operated as the Chairman of the Private Office of Sheik Saeed Bin Tahnoon Al Nayhan for 13yrs. His CV exhibits stability and expertise across multiple disciplines and industries involving global relationships. It is not only a profile which deserves respect but one which indicates an experience in understanding the variables involved with different national markets.
However such are the levels of finance now required investors and "investment houses" rarely operate in isolation. They interact with any number of investors and other investment houses in providing facilities to businesses/ governments across the world. Depending on a clients needs, an investment house can act as a facilitator, sole or lead investor or as one of a panel of investors.
I am long retired but working in Bank Treasury 30yrs ago Tender Panel Finance for major corporations was a featured service. So say a corporation wanted to borrow £80mn it agreed a facility with a Lead Bank who would secure such finance by creating a panel of banks prepared to lend to the corporation. When the funding was needed the Lead bank would put out Tenders to each panel member to see how much and at what rate each would lend. The Banks would tender for the business.
It is a fundamental issue of spreading and managing the associated risk/ reward.
Consortium investment operates on the same principles.
As of now nobody comes with any guarantees but His Excellency Tahnoon Nimer and Mr Heller in effect oversee and manage Sheik Saeed Bin Tahnoon Al Nayhans ABDB "investment house" involving 60 companies.
As of now we have no knowledge of; - the nature of the deal - any possible indemnities - the scale of finance involved - the personal wealth of HE Tahnoon Nimer - his personal investments beyond those stated by Mr Southall (this is seen to be his first venture into football) - any potential investment partner he may or may not bring to the table - the relationship between the investors and Mr Southall.
However to this point all named parties have chosen to take reputational risk by putting their names into the public domain.
There is an excellent post elsewhere from Red Pete covering the local investment market culture.
I would argue in view of his position and skills HE Tahnoon Nimer is ideally placed to manage any investment needs though such a position should not be seen as a precursor for any reckless spending. Ultimately he is not obliged to divulge any relevant information to us. Indeed confidentiality may well preclude such disclosure.
As to who steps into such a space in todays global investment markets there will always be capital looking for the right yields but be under no illusion investors expect a return.
If this takeover does progress as stakeholders our focus can only be on the actions taken and decisions made in serving the club. For me it comes with the territory of Corporate Governance.
As the enquiries in Sheffield indicate any and every Corporate Officer has specific responsibilities and a duty of care to the Company they serve. In the EFL such responsibilities are further defined by the industries rules and regulations.
At this stage I can but wish the new parties every success in their endeavours. I am grateful for their planned participation and am not uncomfortable with such involvement but I must repeat there can be no guarantees.
The reality is we have endured 6yrs of turmoil and 2yrs of trying to escape its consequences. Our ability to trade meaningfully in this market has depended on the reputations of those leading the clubhouse. The management & staff of the club have for the past 18 months delivered progress way beyond their resources rebuilding the relationship between the club and its fan base.
Such progress is at risk. It would be prudent for any new investor to stabilise the business.
Beyond that there is a new business to be built here. It was the requirement in January 2014. We appear to have travelled full circle seemingly nearly trebling the club debt on the journey. Such debt has limited our options for the future but we must move forward.
If new investors offer this opportunity can we please give any potential new incumbent the time and space to get the foundations right to enable the business to move forward on a planned and sustainable basis.
For now the EFL "certification" process is fundamental to the process.
It has to be right. We need it to be right.
If a few more days or even weeks is the price of industry due diligence then so be it.
Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
.
Phew - I must say the double line spacing really helps on a @grapevine post 👍🏻
Red Bull clubs operate in a pretty strange way Wolves operate in a pretty strange way Brentford has operate in a pretty strange way Athletic Bilbao operate in a pretty strange way
I’m sure there are other examples that I’m just not thinking of, I’m still sceptical of Bowyer’s comment, but all of the above have had relative success, so it’s not necessarily a reason to worry.
Like everyone else, I can't wait to be shot of Roland. But after the Spivs and Duchatelet, above all I want our next owners to be good people who will nurture our club and enable it to fulfil its potential.
Now, if it takes longer than I would like for the EFL to establish we are not going to repeat the experience of the past decade, nor become the next Bury or Orient or Macclesfield, then I for one am prepared to be patient.
We make ourselves look foolish if we wave banners saying (correctly) that the EFL is not fit for purpose, but then expect them to rush through the approval process just to satisfy our collective impatience. Addicks will be the first to shout if something fishy subsequently comes to light, which was not uncovered before ESI were given the EFL's blessing - and I'm sure the EFL know that full well.
Yes, there is a transfer window on the horizon, and yes, we do have the Christmas shut-down in the UK (but not, I imagine, in Abu Dhabi!) between now and then. We still have a fortnight of working days before the window opens, and it appears that conversations between Bowyer, Gallen & Southall will have us ready to hit the ground running on 1 Jan if the takeover goes through.
Whether it is 24h shopping, "Get Brexit Done", or road rage, we appear to be becoming an increasingly impatient nation, and ultimately that is not necessarily to our greater benefit.
Prague - Would you please STOP attempting to reveal individuals personal names against their user names. That’s twice now in recent weeks. It’s not on.
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
Same for Soundas and for everyone else.
I wouldn’t normally do that Bart but in this instance it really is practically 100% nailed on common knowledge. I was also under the impression that the poster thought that DS was his real name....hence my reason for trying to correct him. Understand your take on it though.
Prague - Would you please STOP attempting to reveal individuals personal names against their user names. That’s twice now in recent weeks. It’s not on.
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
Prague - Would you please STOP attempting to reveal individuals personal names against their user names. That’s twice now in recent weeks. It’s not on.
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
Prague - Would you please STOP attempting to reveal individuals personal names against their user names. That’s twice now in recent weeks. It’s not on.
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
Prague - Would you please STOP attempting to reveal individuals personal names against their user names. That’s twice now in recent weeks. It’s not on.
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
Prague - Would you please STOP attempting to reveal individuals personal names against their user names. That’s twice now in recent weeks. It’s not on.
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
Prague - Would you please STOP attempting to reveal individuals personal names against their user names. That’s twice now in recent weeks. It’s not on.
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
Prague - Would you please STOP attempting to reveal individuals personal names against their user names. That’s twice now in recent weeks. It’s not on.
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
Same for Soundas and for everyone else.
I wouldn’t normally do that Bart but in this instance it really is practically 100% nailed on common knowledge. I was also under the impression that the poster thought that DS was his real name....hence my reason for trying to correct him. Understand your take on it though.
There’s no right instance Soundas, unless it’s a member who has sadly passed or when the user is happy for it to made known (for example, when they join representative committees or are fundraising etc).
in this instance, you’ve even got the wrong person against the wrong user.
Comments
If you want to reveal your personal details to others that’s entirely up to you. By please respect everyone else’s right to anonymity should they wish.
Same for Soundas and for everyone else.
Wolves operate in a pretty strange way
Brentford has operate in a pretty strange way
Athletic Bilbao operate in a pretty strange way
I’m sure there are other examples that I’m just not thinking of, I’m still sceptical of Bowyer’s comment, but all of the above have had relative success, so it’s not necessarily a reason to worry.
3... 2... 1...
Now, if it takes longer than I would like for the EFL to establish we are not going to repeat the experience of the past decade, nor become the next Bury or Orient or Macclesfield, then I for one am prepared to be patient.
We make ourselves look foolish if we wave banners saying (correctly) that the EFL is not fit for purpose, but then expect them to rush through the approval process just to satisfy our collective impatience. Addicks will be the first to shout if something fishy subsequently comes to light, which was not uncovered before ESI were given the EFL's blessing - and I'm sure the EFL know that full well.
Yes, there is a transfer window on the horizon, and yes, we do have the Christmas shut-down in the UK (but not, I imagine, in Abu Dhabi!) between now and then. We still have a fortnight of working days before the window opens, and it appears that conversations between Bowyer, Gallen & Southall will have us ready to hit the ground running on 1 Jan if the takeover goes through.
Whether it is 24h shopping, "Get Brexit Done", or road rage, we appear to be becoming an increasingly impatient nation, and ultimately that is not necessarily to our greater benefit.
I was also under the impression that the poster thought that DS was his real name....hence my reason for trying to correct him.
Understand your take on it though.
I am black
I was born in 72.
That clears that up.
I am Desperate
in this instance, you’ve even got the wrong person against the wrong user.
I am gender neutral
I own a mobiile home in Bexhill
Born 1951
I don't care who knows.