The CAS Trust has tested the water with the ACV application and it has probably ruffled a few feathers at both the club and the Council. We await a response to that. Should a purchase of the club succeed, I would think it not unlikely that at some point, perhaps soon, the CAC supporters are presented with a 'Dear Supporter' letter that is a fait accompli. i.e. the club's long-term future cannot be realised at The Valley and thus it has to move to a new stadium. The bean-counters will have factored in 'x' of our home support saying 'shucks to that' and walking out (and I would not criticise those who do so). The suits will set about a big marketing offensive aimed at the zillions of new residents who are set to move into new homes on and around the peninsula over the next few years. Ditto those moving into the new 'Kidbrooke Village' (where the Ferrier Estate was situated). If it comes down to a 'Move, and the club has a future' v 'Stay put and it doesn't ' , would not most of our supporters be pragmatic and (sadly) accept that finance rules? That said, the club won't continue without its core support...and that is where we can play our part. We can organise, influence, cajole and oppose, should we see fit. Granted, this is not May 1990, but we showed our mettle then, and won. We can do so again.
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody came in for the club and tried to move it based majorly on the amount of pie in the sky talk Charlton fans themselves have piped up about it. At this rate, it will be the fans putting the idea in somebody else's mind!
That is so unbelievably condescending, arrogant and ill informed.
i am guessing u didnt put in the effort in the original back to the valley campaign so you shouldnt criticise people who are worrying because they have seen it all before
make ur comments by all means but.leave off calling people tedious
The only way a move would be acceptable to me would be if the fans were allowed to have a major input into it's design and features. For me that would basically mean a slightly larger and improved version of our beloved Valley, a complete wrap around stadium. I would like to feel that I was still visiting the Valley, but in a nicer location.
The clever thing to do would be to build alongside the boxes and corporate stuff that makes a lot of money plus non-match day earning potential (hotels, conferencing, casinos,etc is build a big safe standing area behind one goal ("The Bartram End") that would not only provide a bigger capacity but allow a cheaper option to watch Charlton.
But this is really crossing a bridge before we have come to it.
When and if there are new owners we need to find out what the long term plan is. One of the questions is "What are the plans for the Valley?" but only one.
1. Who owns the Club?
2. What is the business plan?
3. What the investment level?
4. What are the plans for the Stadium?
5. What the plans for the Academy?
6. What is the exit strategy?
Some people will sneer and say how dare we fans ask questions when there hasn't yet been a takeover but they are not just Charlton questions. Every fan at every club should be interested in the same six questions
Further to my post above, isn't it the case that Fulham plan to further develop Craven Cottage? As far as I can recall, Craven Cottage is more cramped, has worse on street parking pressure, and worse public transport connections, than the Valley. But it is an iconic stadium with tradition. Which even al Fayed managed to recognise...
I think Prauge Addick sums up my thoughts very well. In life I think there are certain places that you have a life long affinity for, somewhere where it always a pleasure to go, gives you a certain lift and for me the Valley is such a place and has been for nearly 50 years. There is no reason to leave and it would break my heart if we were to.
any chance at all we can keep this about takeovers and leave the moving home till we know more or start a seperate thread just logged on 40 plus new messages and almost all are about moving away from floyd rd I know its important but we need to see who and what comes in and what their plan is as henners keeps saying.
Further to my post above, isn't it the case that Fulham plan to further develop Craven Cottage? As far as I can recall, Craven Cottage is more cramped, has worse on street parking pressure, and worse public transport connections, than the Valley. But it is an iconic stadium with tradition. Which even al Fayed managed to recognise...
But the fact of the matter is we cannot have another club on our door step, thus imo forcing our hand to move (potentially) to the peninsular
mate if we were any other club i could accept such opinions such as cafctom`s as fair comment because we havent seen it happen before.
i just think some people`s memories must be extremely short and if u werent around at the time then give a bit of credit to those that were.
judging by this thread tho, its 50/50 as to supporters in favor of a move.
it will be good for 3 seasons then we will get kicked out when they put the rent up and all you Nandos Domers can come join me and NLA watching Enfield
The return to The Valley was worthy in its own right, of course, but it was actually only a means to an end: the very survival of the Club. There is little doubt that prolonged residence in SE25 would have seen its eventual absorption by dear old Uncle Ron.
I think things are beginning to play out the same way here now, and already there appears to be a degree of resignation to an unwelcome fate.
We are in the hands of an ambitious local authority which seems determined to create a world-class resort within the borough. To add to its existing world heritage legacy, RBG will use its considerable land-use powers to weed out primary Industrial activities in favour of business-lite commercial operations such as the financial sector and IT, and to develop its peninsular enclave with major players in retail, entertainment and sports. The council is not burdened by trivial matters of land ownership, financing or operation - it merely sits and spins its web. The Valley will become collateral damage, being sacrificed as part of a major sector in RBG's grandiose plans. The immediate threat to RBG within the Thames Gateway region is undoubtedly Stratford, and RBG now requires a sporting coup. It would then need, say, only a casino and SE10 would have the lot. CAFC will be manoeuvred around and its own acreage will simply be swapped for a plot more convenient to our lords and masters.
Meanwhile, the football industry continues its merry way, and within a few miles of each other no fewer than four of its senior operators have to compete between themselves for local support. In the most crowded football city on Earth, what chance does Chairman Baz stand of finding home territory (the O's own layer?)
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody came in for the club and tried to move it based majorly on the amount of pie in the sky talk Charlton fans themselves have piped up about it. At this rate, it will be the fans putting the idea in somebody else's mind!
That is so unbelievably condescending, arrogant and ill informed.
i am guessing u didnt put in the effort in the original back to the valley campaign so you shouldnt criticise people who are worrying because they have seen it all before
make ur comments by all means but.leave off calling people tedious
Call it what you like - It is tedious seeing people get in a huff and puff about what the parking would be like at the new stadium and what the scenery will be like when there is no concrete evidence linking Charlton and the peninsula site. Its 2+2 being put together to equal something completely different.
As for the original Back To The Valley campaign - I've nothing but respect for those who helped make it happen. I was too young to be involved at the time, but my first season watching the Addicks was 1992, when we moved back there.
Also, 'ill-informed' is a little wide of the mark - I'm closely related to one of the people most heavily tied to Charlton during the 1980s, so I know my fair share about what was going on back then.
I think its more 70% to 30 in favour of a move mate, football was pre sky and about the football not the multi million corporate model, that is now around,
the sad thing is that if people really believe that cafc can compete with spurs, arsenal, Chelsea let alone man utd, Liverpool, city then they are the ones that are in need of a dose of reality by then though RBG will have what they want and cafc will be tenants in a multi event stadium, with extortionate parking fees and pricy bars and restaurant's
I really think that above all else to compete in just playing terms the squad would need 100 million to get in between any of the teams mentioned
I heard on the radio that Southampton have spent around 70 mil to get to their current situation I don't know how true that is but it seems a realistic figure
but todays fan especially cafc fan wants an instant reaction and forget the actual need for it , everything cafc needs can be achieved at the valley with the right investment and an actual acceptance of how the football ladder works and where your team fits in it
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody came in for the club and tried to move it based majorly on the amount of pie in the sky talk Charlton fans themselves have piped up about it. At this rate, it will be the fans putting the idea in somebody else's mind!
That is so unbelievably condescending, arrogant and ill informed.
i am guessing u didnt put in the effort in the original back to the valley campaign so you shouldnt criticise people who are worrying because they have seen it all before
make ur comments by all means but.leave off calling people tedious
Call it what you like - It is tedious seeing people get in a huff and puff about what the parking would be like at the new stadium and what the scenery will be like when there is no concrete evidence linking Charlton and the peninsula site. Its 2+2 being put together to equal something completely different.
As for the original Back To The Valley campaign - I've nothing but respect for those who helped make it happen. I was too young to be involved at the time, but my first season watching the Addicks was 1992, when we moved back there.
Also, 'ill-informed' is a little wide of the mark - I'm closely related to one of the people most heavily tied to Charlton during the 1980s, so I know my fair share about what was going on back then.
fair enough response. just for your record, im moaning about any proposed move away, not about parking or scenary. and the reason is because i strongly believe it would all end in tears within 3 years a la Coventry City
The only way a move would be acceptable to me would be if the fans were allowed to have a major input into it's design and features. For me that would basically mean a slightly larger and improved version of our beloved Valley, a complete wrap around stadium. I would like to feel that I was still visiting the Valley, but in a nicer location.
The clever thing to do would be to build alongside the boxes and corporate stuff that makes a lot of money plus non-match day earning potential (hotels, conferencing, casinos,etc is build a big safe standing area behind one goal ("The Bartram End") that would not only provide a bigger capacity but allow a cheaper option to watch Charlton.
But this is really crossing a bridge before we have come to it.
When and if there are new owners we need to find out what the long term plan is. One of the questions is "What are the plans for the Valley?" but only one.
1. Who owns the Club?
2. What is the business plan?
3. What the investment level?
4. What are the plans for the Stadium?
5. What the plans for the Academy?
6. What is the exit strategy?
Some people will sneer and say how dare we fans ask questions when there hasn't yet been a takeover but they are not just Charlton questions. Every fan at every club should be interested in the same six questions
I wish you all the luck in the world in getting the answers to these questions.You've waited patiently for 3 years to get them and have got zip.
Don't go holding your breath that you'll get them any time soon/ever!
I think its more 70% to 30 in favour of a move mate, football was pre sky and about the football not the multi million corporate model, that is now around,
the sad thing is that if people really believe that cafc can compete with spurs, arsenal, Chelsea let alone man utd, Liverpool, city then they are the ones that are in need of a dose of reality by then though RBG will have what they want and cafc will be tenants in a multi event stadium, with extortionate parking fees and pricy bars and restaurant's
I really think that above all else to compete in just playing terms the squad would need 100 million to get in between any of the teams mentioned
I heard on the radio that Southampton have spent around 70 mil to get to their current situation I don't know how true that is but it seems a realistic figure
but todays fan especially cafc fan wants an instant reaction and forget the actual need for it , everything cafc needs can be achieved at the valley with the right investment and an actual acceptance of how the football ladder works and where your team fits in it
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody came in for the club and tried to move it based majorly on the amount of pie in the sky talk Charlton fans themselves have piped up about it. At this rate, it will be the fans putting the idea in somebody else's mind!
That is so unbelievably condescending, arrogant and ill informed.
i am guessing u didnt put in the effort in the original back to the valley campaign so you shouldnt criticise people who are worrying because they have seen it all before
make ur comments by all means but.leave off calling people tedious
Call it what you like - It is tedious seeing people get in a huff and puff about what the parking would be like at the new stadium and what the scenery will be like when there is no concrete evidence linking Charlton and the peninsula site. Its 2+2 being put together to equal something completely different.
As for the original Back To The Valley campaign - I've nothing but respect for those who helped make it happen. I was too young to be involved at the time, but my first season watching the Addicks was 1992, when we moved back there.
Also, 'ill-informed' is a little wide of the mark - I'm closely related to one of the people most heavily tied to Charlton during the 1980s, so I know my fair share about what was going on back then.
There is no concrete evidence perhaps but very strong circumstantial and anecdotal evidence which only those ambivalent to a move would ignore.
The ACV application asks the direct question in effect and Greenwich Council are spinning and stalling for all they are worth. There is "concrete evidence" that ACVs for football grounds elsewhere have gone through in approximately half the time of ours.
Sorry if I come across as "tedious" but I like The Valley and for me it is part and parcel of what Charlton is about.
I will therefore speculate as much as I like thanks until banned by the Site owners.
But the fact of the matter is we cannot have another club on our door step, thus imo forcing our hand to move (potentially) to the peninsular
But I repeat. There is only one other club who can take the site. Millwall.
I know it is hard to believe but the RustBucket is also a modern stadium, purpose built for a club of Millwall's modest support. They can't even fill 20,000. For them a move to the Peninsula would be a huge financial gamble. The owner hasn't got those kind of deep pockets or ambitions fortunately.
The 'stop another club' defensive card has been around for about five years now. The only indication of rival interest came from West Ham, who are now sorted. Unless anyone can prove me wrong, there has never been any evidence of Millwall interest in moving to the Pen or anywhere else.
It was a real worry a few years ago. It isn't now (although we have plenty to worry about with West Ham in the Olympic at taxpayers' expense. Charlton could have done a lot more to lobby against that, but didn't, as far as I know, although Richard Murray has always recognised the threat).
The only way a move would be acceptable to me would be if the fans were allowed to have a major input into it's design and features. For me that would basically mean a slightly larger and improved version of our beloved Valley, a complete wrap around stadium. I would like to feel that I was still visiting the Valley, but in a nicer location.
The clever thing to do would be to build alongside the boxes and corporate stuff that makes a lot of money plus non-match day earning potential (hotels, conferencing, casinos,etc is build a big safe standing area behind one goal ("The Bartram End") that would not only provide a bigger capacity but allow a cheaper option to watch Charlton.
But this is really crossing a bridge before we have come to it.
When and if there are new owners we need to find out what the long term plan is. One of the questions is "What are the plans for the Valley?" but only one.
1. Who owns the Club?
2. What is the business plan?
3. What the investment level?
4. What are the plans for the Stadium?
5. What the plans for the Academy?
6. What is the exit strategy?
Some people will sneer and say how dare we fans ask questions when there hasn't yet been a takeover but they are not just Charlton questions. Every fan at every club should be interested in the same six questions
I wish you all the luck in the world in getting the answers to these questions.You've waited patiently for 3 years to get them and have got zip.
Don't go holding your breath that you'll get them any time soon/ever!
Certainly not holding my breath but you're right it has been frustrating that on the few occasions that Slater and others have been available they've not answered in full (perhaps in some cases understandably) but the they are still the questions that need answers IMO as much of the speculation above shows. A simple "we're staying at the Valley" or "we're planning to move in X years time" would at least focus people.
And maybe, just maybe, someone at the SLP looking to pad out another article with info from Charlton Life might want to nick the questions for their paper or for the press conference when the new owners show themselves ; - )
Charlton Athletic Football Club will I hope be around in another 100 years time. If anyone thinks that we can get there without blood and tumoil and yes a new home then that's the dose of reality that's needed. It's not just about us. It's about those that follow. The model of football stadia built in the heart of the community is long been dead and over time will be completely of a bygone age. The opportunity to get to one of the best and most exciting locations left in London won't come around again. If the future is secured then I'm not totally opposed. But I still want to hear the argument.
i guess its a case of once bitten twice shy for many.
but i do like your attempts to bring optimism to the part
also what @lenglover said. we are not being nosey old biddies hear, worried about something that aint never gonna happen. there are some cold hard facts/situations existing at the moment such as
1. no manager or squad on contracts 2. a delayed ACV process 3. two very cagey operators in MS & TJ. 4. RBG`s published plans for the Borough 5. The leader of RBG`s known animosity towards the Club 6. the history of the Valley party
on writing a worse case scenario last night i was told i had lost the plot. today that "lost plot" seems to have been picked up by the SLP (also capable of putting a few connected factors together - not saying anything to do with what was written on here).
lets do a Millwall and fight amongest ourselves at the next game. Nandos Domers v VFR`ers.
Not to forget, a "sales brochure" for the Club advocating the potential for a move to the Peninsular. Regardless of one's position on the merits of a move, it's been brought into play by the current owners and, one can confidently assume, the Borough.
Charlton Athletic Football Club will I hope be around in another 100 years time. If anyone thinks that we can get there without blood and turmoil and yes a new home then that's the dose of reality that's needed. It's not just about us. It's about those that follow. The model of football stadia built in the heart of the community is long been dead and over time will be completely of a bygone age. The opportunity to get to one of the best and most exciting locations left in London won't come around again. If the future is secured then I'm not totally opposed. But I still want to hear the argument.
I agree but a stadium is not the only thing needed for success. You could argue that while TV money far outstrips ticket income the stadium becomes less important as a source of income, relatively. Of course it's emotional and historic importance remains.
Stay and expand the Valley? Great. Move to a bigger local stadium with more income potential? Also great IMO if done right but the stadium is not the only cause of success and failure. The business plan, the level of investment and is it debt or equity, the use of the academy or not, stability in management and many other things will also be key to CAFC being successful under any owners. The Valley is important but it is not the only ingredient for success.
Comments
i am guessing u didnt put in the effort in the original back to the valley campaign so you shouldnt criticise people who are worrying because they have seen it all before
make ur comments by all means but.leave off calling people tedious
But this is really crossing a bridge before we have come to it.
When and if there are new owners we need to find out what the long term plan is. One of the questions is "What are the plans for the Valley?" but only one.
1. Who owns the Club?
2. What is the business plan?
3. What the investment level?
4. What are the plans for the Stadium?
5. What the plans for the Academy?
6. What is the exit strategy?
Some people will sneer and say how dare we fans ask questions when there hasn't yet been a takeover but they are not just Charlton questions. Every fan at every club should be interested in the same six questions
fail to prepare, prepare to fail.
or stick ur head in the sand and cross ur fingers
its been said too many times in conversations for my liking but then I am very much of the mindset that there is no smoke without fire
I believe that RM/PV and TJ/MS and any other set of takers would or will have moved us had they still been in charge
i just think some people`s memories must be extremely short and if u werent around at the time then give a bit of credit to those that were.
judging by this thread tho, its 50/50 as to supporters in favor of a move.
it will be good for 3 seasons then we will get kicked out when they put the rent up and all you Nandos Domers can come join me and NLA watching Enfield
The return to The Valley was worthy in its own right, of course, but it was actually only a means to an end: the very survival of the Club. There is little doubt that prolonged residence in SE25 would have seen its eventual absorption by dear old Uncle Ron.
I think things are beginning to play out the same way here now, and already there appears to be a degree of resignation to an unwelcome fate.
We are in the hands of an ambitious local authority which seems determined to create a world-class resort within the borough. To add to its existing world heritage legacy, RBG will use its considerable land-use powers to weed out primary Industrial activities in favour of business-lite commercial operations such as the financial sector and IT, and to develop its peninsular enclave with major players in retail, entertainment and sports. The council is not burdened by trivial matters of land ownership, financing or operation - it merely sits and spins its web. The Valley will become collateral damage, being sacrificed as part of a major sector in RBG's grandiose plans. The immediate threat to RBG within the Thames Gateway region is undoubtedly Stratford, and RBG now requires a sporting coup. It would then need, say, only a casino and SE10 would have the lot. CAFC will be manoeuvred around and its own acreage will simply be swapped for a plot more convenient to our lords and masters.
Meanwhile, the football industry continues its merry way, and within a few miles of each other no fewer than four of its senior operators have to compete between themselves for local support. In the most crowded football city on Earth, what chance does Chairman Baz stand of finding home territory (the O's own layer?)
I hope I'm wrong.
As for the original Back To The Valley campaign - I've nothing but respect for those who helped make it happen. I was too young to be involved at the time, but my first season watching the Addicks was 1992, when we moved back there.
Also, 'ill-informed' is a little wide of the mark - I'm closely related to one of the people most heavily tied to Charlton during the 1980s, so I know my fair share about what was going on back then.
But until its on the OS, this is just conjecture
the sad thing is that if people really believe that cafc can compete with spurs, arsenal, Chelsea let alone man utd, Liverpool, city then they are the ones that are in need of a dose of reality by then though RBG will have what they want and cafc will be tenants in a multi event stadium, with extortionate parking fees and pricy bars and restaurant's
I really think that above all else to compete in just playing terms the squad would need 100 million to get in between any of the teams mentioned
I heard on the radio that Southampton have spent around 70 mil to get to their current situation I don't know how true that is but it seems a realistic figure
but todays fan especially cafc fan wants an instant reaction and forget the actual need for it , everything cafc needs can be achieved at the valley with the right investment and an actual acceptance of how the football ladder works and where your team fits in it
I wish you all the luck in the world in getting the answers to these questions.You've waited patiently for 3 years to get them and have got zip.
Don't go holding your breath that you'll get them any time soon/ever!
The ACV application asks the direct question in effect and Greenwich Council are spinning and stalling for all they are worth. There is "concrete evidence" that ACVs for football grounds elsewhere have gone through in approximately half the time of ours.
Sorry if I come across as "tedious" but I like The Valley and for me it is part and parcel of what Charlton is about.
I will therefore speculate as much as I like thanks until banned by the Site owners.
I know it's probably the same on any forum, but I do agree that a lot of this chatter is tedious - for one simple reason.
Why so gloomy...???
Can't people be excited at the possibilities instead of so quickly discussing all of the potential downsides and problems?
There are always problems in football, but there is also so much magic. Our club is in need of new owners, it looks like we're getting them.
I for one will remain excited and optimistic until we have some real concrete facts to discuss.
if we went into admin and all debts vanished then I could see the value of the purchase,
but the only reason that people would buy us based on the document from cafc is that the move to the peninsular is part of the package
But the fact of the matter is we cannot have another club on our door step, thus imo forcing our hand to move (potentially) to the peninsular
But I repeat. There is only one other club who can take the site. Millwall.
I know it is hard to believe but the RustBucket is also a modern stadium, purpose built for a club of Millwall's modest support. They can't even fill 20,000. For them a move to the Peninsula would be a huge financial gamble. The owner hasn't got those kind of deep pockets or ambitions fortunately.
The 'stop another club' defensive card has been around for about five years now. The only indication of rival interest came from West Ham, who are now sorted. Unless anyone can prove me wrong, there has never been any evidence of Millwall interest in moving to the Pen or anywhere else.
It was a real worry a few years ago. It isn't now (although we have plenty to worry about with West Ham in the Olympic at taxpayers' expense. Charlton could have done a lot more to lobby against that, but didn't, as far as I know, although Richard Murray has always recognised the threat).
Certainly not holding my breath but you're right it has been frustrating that on the few occasions that Slater and others have been available they've not answered in full (perhaps in some cases understandably) but the they are still the questions that need answers IMO as much of the speculation above shows. A simple "we're staying at the Valley" or "we're planning to move in X years time" would at least focus people.
And maybe, just maybe, someone at the SLP looking to pad out another article with info from Charlton Life might want to nick the questions for their paper or for the press conference when the new owners show themselves ; - )
i guess its a case of once bitten twice shy for many.
but i do like your attempts to bring optimism to the part
also what @lenglover said. we are not being nosey old biddies hear, worried about something that aint never gonna happen. there are some cold hard facts/situations existing at the moment such as
1. no manager or squad on contracts
2. a delayed ACV process
3. two very cagey operators in MS & TJ.
4. RBG`s published plans for the Borough
5. The leader of RBG`s known animosity towards the Club
6. the history of the Valley party
on writing a worse case scenario last night i was told i had lost the plot. today that "lost plot" seems to have been picked up by the SLP (also capable of putting a few connected factors together - not saying anything to do with what was written on here).
lets do a Millwall and fight amongest ourselves at the next game. Nandos Domers v VFR`ers.
Stay and expand the Valley? Great. Move to a bigger local stadium with more income potential? Also great IMO if done right but the stadium is not the only cause of success and failure. The business plan, the level of investment and is it debt or equity, the use of the academy or not, stability in management and many other things will also be key to CAFC being successful under any owners. The Valley is important but it is not the only ingredient for success.