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Petition - Inheritance Law

BDLBDL
edited April 2019 in Not Sports Related
We recently started a petiton to try and change the Inheriyance law in England and Wales to match that of Scotland.

In England & Wales the Crown benefits from any intestacy where there are no surviving descendants of whole or half blood uncles and aunts to a deceased person. In Scotland the instacy law allows for descendants of great-uncles and great-aunts to inherit from an intestate estate in priority to Crown.

The Goverment Legal Dept, Bona Vacantia Division collects in over £20 million per annum from unclaimed intestate estates or when there are no surviving kin according to England & Wales Intestacy Law. Scottish Intestacy Law is far more generous, allowing more distant blood relatives to claim on an intestacy before the Crown. As time progresses families are getting smaller and the Crown stands to benefit as a result of this. This Law can easily be changed and will benefit thousands of people.
We havent had much traction on this yet, hence the appeal here. Would appreciate it immensely if people could spread the word.

Thanks




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Comments

  • I recently had a DNA test. The results show that around 4,500 people could be classed as 'distant relatives' of mine. I'd like to see the courts sort out that little lot ((:>) 
  • maybe some people die intestate because they don't want their money going to relatives …..
  • That's Lincolnshire for you
    lol .. 'cept I was born in Kent and spent nearly 60 years of my life around London, minus a few years abroad .. 'the dispersal' must be down to my Viking ancestors .. those randy devils put it about all over the place ((:>)
  • I think I'd like an understanding of why the request and who the "we" refers to in the original post.

  • I think the Intestacy law is fine as it is.  If the person is that bothered that having no immesdiate relatives means that their money goes to the Crown then they can make a Will & leave it to charity. 

    As a certain Labour Chancellor once said about Inheritance Tax.....it means you dislike your heirs more than the Government. 
  • I think I'd like an understanding of why the request and who the "we" refers to in the original post.

    I would think thats obvious isn't it? I work for Probate Genealogists and we'd like to see the law the same as it is in Scotland as we work a number of cases where, if Scottish Law applied, the state wouldn't be receiving monies.

    If you think you may have a relative who died leaving an estate dealt with by the BV then you can always check and make a claim.


    maybe some people die intestate because they don't want their money going to relatives …..
    Then they should make a will!

    Rob7Lee said:
    I don't think this is the/an answer, surely getting people to write Wills and therefore actively making a choice is more important. I certainly wouldn't want the decedents of my half Aunts/Uncles getting my money (if they were under the law my next of kin in effect), I'd rather it went to Charity.
    Relatives can always decide to pass on monies to a charity but the state will always take monies where the deceased has no next of kin. If you want to leave money to Charity then make a will!

  • If you can't be bothered to write a will it seems reasonable that the state should take the funds, great aunts and uncles seems a ridiculous stretch.
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  • edited April 2019
    BDL said:
    I think I'd like an understanding of why the request and who the "we" refers to in the original post.

    I would think thats obvious isn't it? I work for Probate Genealogists and we'd like to see the law the same as it is in Scotland as we work a number of cases where, if Scottish Law applied, the state wouldn't be receiving monies.

    If you think you may have a relative who died leaving an estate dealt with by the BV then you can always check and make a claim.


    maybe some people die intestate because they don't want their money going to relatives …..
    Then they should make a will!

    Rob7Lee said:
    I don't think this is the/an answer, surely getting people to write Wills and therefore actively making a choice is more important. I certainly wouldn't want the decedents of my half Aunts/Uncles getting my money (if they were under the law my next of kin in effect), I'd rather it went to Charity.
    Relatives can always decide to pass on monies to a charity but the state will always take monies where the deceased has no next of kin. If you want to leave money to Charity then make a will!

    Have I got this right then? You stand to gain professionally because you'll be getting the finders fees - it's a whole new source of business you.  Ordinary people will be losing out because the state will no longer be picking up these inheritances.

    If it's how it appears to me, I'd be much happier sticking to the status quo.

  • If you can't be bothered to write a will it seems reasonable that the state should take the funds, great aunts and uncles seems a ridiculous stretch.
    I'm not even certain what a great aunt or uncle is (without google) and I've no idea if I have any.
  • Sorry BDL, it wasn't obvious to me that you work for Probate Genealogists.
    I'm surprised you think it's common knowledge.
    I feel so silly now that it is obvious. 


    Scotland needs to step in line. 
  • It would be nice if everyone made a will even if they leave it all to Charity as I'm not a fan of the Crown getting it but I'm even less of a fan of it going to people who may not have seen a relative for fifty years, may even have fallen out with said relative, and the relative not wanting them to inherit it. I dare say there are a number of people who are not bothered they have not made a will and are happy for it to go to the Crown. Conversely there are a number of people who never get round to making a will and would leave it to people if they had done so but hey ho. Swings and roundabouts. Think the system is ok as it is personally.
  • Stig said:
    BDL said:
    I think I'd like an understanding of why the request and who the "we" refers to in the original post.

    I would think thats obvious isn't it? I work for Probate Genealogists and we'd like to see the law the same as it is in Scotland as we work a number of cases where, if Scottish Law applied, the state wouldn't be receiving monies.

    If you think you may have a relative who died leaving an estate dealt with by the BV then you can always check and make a claim.


    maybe some people die intestate because they don't want their money going to relatives …..
    Then they should make a will!

    Rob7Lee said:
    I don't think this is the/an answer, surely getting people to write Wills and therefore actively making a choice is more important. I certainly wouldn't want the decedents of my half Aunts/Uncles getting my money (if they were under the law my next of kin in effect), I'd rather it went to Charity.
    Relatives can always decide to pass on monies to a charity but the state will always take monies where the deceased has no next of kin. If you want to leave money to Charity then make a will!

    Have I got this right then? You stand to gain professionally because you'll be getting the finders fees - it's a whole new source of business you.  Ordinary people will be losing out because the state will no longer be picking up these inheritances.

    If it's how it appears to me, I'd be much happier sticking to the status quo.

    Not Necessarily, yes we do get a fee if we do the work but an individual can easily go through the probate process themselves. A large proportion of the cases we deal with from the public sector are pro-bono, we simply find the NoK and let them know about the deceased.

    Look sign if you want, don't sign if you want we just think its an archaic law that needs updating.

    And my advice has always been, make a will! People don't though and will continue to not make wills.

    As for the "obvious" bit - yeah fair play and sorry. Thought that you could do a quick google of Danny, who started the petition.
  • It would be nice if everyone made a will even if they leave it all to Charity as I'm not a fan of the Crown getting it but I'm even less of a fan of it going to people who may not have seen a relative for fifty years, may even have fallen out with said relative, and the relative not wanting them to inherit it. I dare say there are a number of people who are not bothered they have not made a will and are happy for it to go to the Crown. Conversely there are a number of people who never get round to making a will and would leave it to people if they had done so but hey ho. Swings and roundabouts. Think the system is ok as it is personally.
    Agree, it would be nice. However the system is not ok especially if the person died in England but all their relatives were in Scotland (or Northern Ireland).

  • I would happily accept a large (or even medium size) inheritance from someone I've never met or knew.  Please feel free to mention me in your wills.

    Some people don't think they are going to die soon or just don't get round to making a will or perhaps don't update it.  I can think of one well known Charlton person where there was no will.

    Maybe they just think it will go to my cousins so I don't need to bother.  Those cousins, ie children of great uncles, might know the deceased but there would be no way for them to claim any of the estate under English law.

    I knew what BDL does when he isn't shouting at people but it is a fair point that most others wouldn't.


  • I’ve signed because I too think it’s an outdated law. Long way to go though. I was the 67th signatory.
  • Cheers SHG - Only 9933 to go then!! ;-)

    Ben, that's why I apologised!
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  • edited April 2019
    I would happily accept a large (or even medium size) inheritance from someone I've never met or knew.  Please feel free to mention me in your wills.

    Some people don't think they are going to die soon or just don't get round to making a will or perhaps don't update it.  I can think of one well known Charlton person where there was no will.

    Maybe they just think it will go to my cousins so I don't need to bother.  Those cousins, ie children of great uncles, might know the deceased but there would be no way for them to claim any of the estate under English law.

    I knew what BDL does when he isn't shouting at people but it is a fair point that most others wouldn't.


    Is that right ?
    Cousins are children of uncles or aunts aren't they ?
    A great uncle is the uncle of your father or mother isn't it ?
  • I would happily accept a large (or even medium size) inheritance from someone I've never met or knew.  Please feel free to mention me in your wills.

    Some people don't think they are going to die soon or just don't get round to making a will or perhaps don't update it.  I can think of one well known Charlton person where there was no will.

    Maybe they just think it will go to my cousins so I don't need to bother.  Those cousins, ie children of great uncles, might know the deceased but there would be no way for them to claim any of the estate under English law.

    I knew what BDL does when he isn't shouting at people but it is a fair point that most others wouldn't.


    Is that right ?
    Cousins are children of uncles or aunts aren't they ?
    A great uncle is the uncle of your father or mother isn't it ?
    Yes.

    I have two grandsons. My sister and brother are their great aunt and uncle. Half brothers and sisters (some of which I also have) are half great aunts and uncles.

    It all gets quite complicated particularly with the amount of family break ups these days.

    Best to make a will if at all possible.
  • edited April 2019
    If I die intestate, will the Crown have to pay off all my debts?

    If so, does anyone know the nearest Aston Martin dealership to Maidstone?
  • Addickted said:
    If I die intestate, will the Crown have to pay off all my debts?

    If so, does anyone know the nearest Aston Martin dealership to Maidstone?
    You know it doesnt work like that! Pity though!!
  • edited April 2019
    BDL said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    I don't think this is the/an answer, surely getting people to write Wills and therefore actively making a choice is more important. I certainly wouldn't want the decedents of my half Aunts/Uncles getting my money (if they were under the law my next of kin in effect), I'd rather it went to Charity.
    Relatives can always decide to pass on monies to a charity but the state will always take monies where the deceased has no next of kin. If you want to leave money to Charity then make a will!

    Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron? If i've decided where/to whom I want to leave any money I can do so by writing a will agreed, so thats to either a charity or descendants of great Aunts and Uncles.

    You're making the broad assumption that someone who doesn't leave a Will and in the situation you describe would want the money to go to a distant relative due to some distant blood relationship, or to people they probably have never met or heard of.

    Surely if the person wanted it to go to them they'd have written a will?

    Why stop there, what about Aunts and uncles and their descendants of your great, great (and repeat) grand parents until you find someone.

    I admit i'm not close to this, but £20m out of the annual size of estates must be a minute amount that the state takes, IHT collected is over £5bn per annum and that only effects a tiny number of estates each year (less than 4%). 

    Thinking about this a bit more, just on my mums side my grandad was one of 8 my nan one of 11 (randy back then clearly!), I only ever met one of their siblings, my great Aunt Sarah (although they called her Millie for some reason), obviously she's long gone and likely her children have had children and so have their children had children, maybe even a generation after that. I've no idea who they are or if they even exist, so why would I want money to go to them?
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Thinking about this a bit more, just on my mums side my grandad was one of 8 my nan one of 11 (randy back then clearly!), I only ever met one of their siblings, my great Aunt Sarah (although they called her Millie for some reason), obviously she's long gone and likely her children have had children and so have their children had children, maybe even a generation after that. I've no idea who they are or if they even exist, so why would I want money to go to them?
    Make a will then, simple.

    Some people don't make wills and regardless of whether they dont want relatives to inherit the law is as it is........... We just think that if that is to be the case then we should have the same law for the whole of the UK. Saying that if it all goes pete tong and Brexit does happen, then the Scots will, no doubt, go their own way eventually and we'll have different states at the end of the day.

  • BDL said:
    Rob7Lee said:

    Thinking about this a bit more, just on my mums side my grandad was one of 8 my nan one of 11 (randy back then clearly!), I only ever met one of their siblings, my great Aunt Sarah (although they called her Millie for some reason), obviously she's long gone and likely her children have had children and so have their children had children, maybe even a generation after that. I've no idea who they are or if they even exist, so why would I want money to go to them?
    Make a will then, simple.

    Some people don't make wills and regardless of whether they dont want relatives to inherit the law is as it is........... We just think that if that is to be the case then we should have the same law for the whole of the UK. Saying that if it all goes pete tong and Brexit does happen, then the Scots will, no doubt, go their own way eventually and we'll have different states at the end of the day.

    Eh?
  • The Scots will be independent from the UK within five years of Brexit. Possibly sooner. I think the same for Northern Ireland with a slightly longer timeframe. The only way of preserving the Union is for Brexit to not happen. 
  • BDL said:
    Rob7Lee said:

    Thinking about this a bit more, just on my mums side my grandad was one of 8 my nan one of 11 (randy back then clearly!), I only ever met one of their siblings, my great Aunt Sarah (although they called her Millie for some reason), obviously she's long gone and likely her children have had children and so have their children had children, maybe even a generation after that. I've no idea who they are or if they even exist, so why would I want money to go to them?
    Make a will then, simple.

    Some people don't make wills and regardless of whether they dont want relatives to inherit the law is as it is........... We just think that if that is to be the case then we should have the same law for the whole of the UK. Saying that if it all goes pete tong and Brexit does happen, then the Scots will, no doubt, go their own way eventually and we'll have different states at the end of the day.

    But we don't, on so many thinks from house buying, too taxation, divorce settlement (finances), to wills themselves! (Marriage cancels any previous wills), you also cannot exclude Children in Scotland from a Will. They have a different court system and so on and so on.
  • Rob7Lee said:
    BDL said:
    Rob7Lee said:

    Thinking about this a bit more, just on my mums side my grandad was one of 8 my nan one of 11 (randy back then clearly!), I only ever met one of their siblings, my great Aunt Sarah (although they called her Millie for some reason), obviously she's long gone and likely her children have had children and so have their children had children, maybe even a generation after that. I've no idea who they are or if they even exist, so why would I want money to go to them?
    Make a will then, simple.

    Some people don't make wills and regardless of whether they dont want relatives to inherit the law is as it is........... We just think that if that is to be the case then we should have the same law for the whole of the UK. Saying that if it all goes pete tong and Brexit does happen, then the Scots will, no doubt, go their own way eventually and we'll have different states at the end of the day.

    But we don't, on so many thinks from house buying, too taxation, divorce settlement (finances), to wills themselves! (Marriage cancels any previous wills), you also cannot exclude Children in Scotland from a Will. They have a different court system and so on and so on.
    And they speak a different language ;-))
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