Its beyond belief. Seems to be wrong now to be proud of being British. You can't without being called a racist or whatever. Few decades ago people like that ginger kid would be put into sectioning. Now they've got a platform to spout utter sh!t and it's infecting snowflakes at a rate of knots. Scary stuff
I am very proud of lots of things to do with being British.
I've not however been a big fan of Eugenics , using the army to attack civilians , or racial supremacism . You are right that in the past you might be sectioned or imprisoned for expressing such views. On occasions that's how people in those days dealt with legitimate challenge or opposition.
I'm sorry that a challenge to your world view is so scary ......... perhaps you are more of a snowflake than those you accuse
It's not scary HolyJo it's terrifying. No need to apologise. I'm sure there will be another topic you'll be offended by next week.
Seriously, re-read the last two pages. You are the only offended person on here.
You sound offended Uboat. Have some time in your safe space
You're nor going to get it, are you.
No I do get it. I just don't see why people need to shot a very iconic British leader down. He had his problems we all do. I'm sure we would be watching Charlton compete in the bundesliga, without him and others. I just feel people need something to get offended by and there only happy when there offended.
That would be awesome to be fair.
Except that the German plans for British males was to use us as slave labour, which wouldn’t have included allowing us to play football.
Fine by me, I’m rubbish at football and only want to watch, especially as we’ll be dominating the Bundesliga in this scenario.
Sadly you wouldn’t be watching either. Labour camps and death mate, like so many others.
Ah that’s a blow.
Joking apart there is this misconception that if we’d lost the war life would have gone on, but we would have lost our freedoms, but it would have been much worse than that.
I really question that Attlee gave the order to bomb Dresden because Churchill was away.
I'm sure Churchill was still running every main decision and was on the end of a telephone.
Agree that Churchill was a man of his time and his upper class upbringing and as soon as the best 6 years of his life were over, was rejected by the people who realized that he was a war leader 1st and foremost.
He did get another go at being Prime minister 1951 to 55 because of the slow progress after the war for one last swan song.
An erratic career for most of his political life and his imperialism belief's but many held these views back in the late 19th and early 20th century.
Churchill can't be Judged from the 21st century without understanding the mores of the times he lived in.
Then nor can Hitler, Stalin, or any other leader who rode the tide of the beliefs of the society they were in.
Everyone is moulded by their experiences and everyone should be judged subsequently by the new historians. This leads to revisionism of the left and right but there are few absolute interpretations of the past. Having new understandings and theories gives dynamism to the past that passive acceptance to established history can't.
FWIW I think Churchill was a shit who got lucky. Most of his ideas previous to WWII were disastrous failures or polarised people.
Gallipoli, getting troops in on the Welsh miners etc. However in WWII the thing I admire him for is understanding that Britain wasn't able to win the war without major allies. He was good at cultivating them and when the US and the USSR came in good at dealing with them.
I disagree with that part - Hitler’s actions and his motivations were utterly reprehensible at the time and by the standards of the time. I wouldn’t put Churchill anywhere near that category.
Just because we can’t judge people of the past by today’s standards doesn’t mean we can’t judge them by any standards.
Churchill cannot and should not be put in anywhere near that category however he was guilty of lots of things including the following
Allowing hundreds of thousands of Indians to starve to death
Supporting Chemical warfare against defenceless tribes in the middle east
Supporting Eugenics
Supporting Racial hierarchies
He Wanted To Use ‘Keep England White’ as a Slogan
He Covered Up The Katyn Massacre
Send the army in to attack Welsh protesters who were starving
His admirers have to either deny that those things happened or admit that they're fine with them, which is why they choose to put their fingers in their ears and keep shouting.
Im fine with who Churchill was, he was a man of his time, to me and many others he is the greatest ever Brit. End of. And I say that as a person who's political leaning are not right wing.
Without countering some of your inaccuracies on your list, Im not giving it the time, you could also add the annihilation of the French fleet in 1940, but there were reasons. Same with Gallipoli, he was hung out to dry...Great men make the toughest decisions, and I'm sick to the back teeth of people of our generation and younger generations who think its ok to judge people from years ago based on the way we live and think nowadays, when in reality they couldn't do what he did, they wouldn't have the bollocks, the bloke was a hero, who fought for our country as a young man, then in his 60's made tactical and political decisions that enabled us to win the biggest war that will ever be, and some shit bags want to denigrate him, almost like he was perfect, he wasn't, Churchill was a war time PM, and steered our country out of the darkest of times.
The turds that criticise him need to remember that.
Churchill was the right man from 39 till 45 and his character got this Country through it darkest days.
As soon as the war was over, the working class people which was the majority, criticised Churchill big time. I only saw the hustings from 1946 recently on Pathe news but he was getting plenty of stick from ex servicemen at the build up to the first general election after the war.
In February 65, the guys who worked on the Thames didn't want anything to do with the funeral at first.
He was a great man in many ways but he came from the elite and clashed with the people on many occasions in his life
The two people who had the most influence on my formative years were my father and my form tutor at secondary school. Both had very strong views on Churchill but were poles apart. My Dad (84) was and still is a Tory, he married into a staunch Labour family from Poplar, my maternal grandmother was shop-steward at her works and my Dad’s father-in-law called him Churchill’s Decipile. My paternal grandfather fought in both wars and my Dad’s two older brothers fought in WWII. Icidentley my grandad(Royal Artillery) actually met up with his eldest son (my Uncle Sid) who was in the Scotts Guards in North Africa purely by chance! How wonderful must that have been? Churchill was my Dad’s hero. My form tutor from my 2nd year at Crown Woods till my 5th was a fiery left-wing Red of pure Welsh Valley stock. He was, and indeed still is, a wonderful man. At school he would fight the corner for any pupil who he felt had been unfairly treated. He would take on House Heads, Deputy Heads and even his fellow countryman our Headmaster if he thought there was a hint of injustice. Anyone on here who went to Crown Woods between 1966-1996 knows who I am referring to. With regard to Churchill he told me that he queued for over 10 hours at Westminster Abbey or Hall (or wherever Churchill lay in state, I really can’t be bothered to check) to see his body to, and this is verbatim “make sure the bastard was dead”.
Anyone planning on joining a queue when Piers Morgan passes away?
Personally I just hope that I see his name less and less in any form of media without me having to do anything to reduce my intake of the output of the sensationalist idiot.
Good for them. I know an ex Officer from the QLR who'd happily rip his head off.
Do you forgive him for putting the lives of hundreds of British soldiers serving in Iraq and encouraging people to join extremist organisations due to this fake news?
Good for them. I know an ex Officer from the QLR who'd happily rip his head off.
Do you forgive him for putting the lives of hundreds of British soldiers serving in Iraq and encouraging people to join extremist organisations due to this fake news?
Its not up to me to forgive him, I'm not his judge and jury.
FWIW Up to a couple of weeks ago I thought he needed a shooing for the Mirror pix, then Morgan was called out on this by that ginger cock (IIRC) who was on GMB denigrating Churchill, PM explained the situation about the pictures and also said (along the lines that) the top brass said in hindsight he was right to publish, he's not been subsequently called out over those comments live on TV, so I'm ok with it.
Piers Morgan has taken his brand of red-top newspaper onto the television screen. Hack journalism. Shock jockeying. Basically a more watered down version of the likes of Katie Hopkins, he claims to be a right-leaning centrist when in fact he's more of an alt-right populist, except I'm not even sure he believes in what he is or says. This is where I think he's more of a shock jockey, he leans wherever will create him the most headlines where he can create he started a trend.
His opinions on sport are utterly woeful, especially cricket. I suspect he was the press mole KP used in 2012 and then again after the Ashes. His hate campaign towards Andy Flower, Andrew Strauss, Graeme Swann and Alastair Cook was despicable and if he was an ordinary member of the public, he could have been investigated for online harassment.
He has been so un-PC where major issues like transgender equality are concerned (Munroe Bergdorf), mental health awareness (Swann, Trott - "they couldn't hack it"), alt-feminism (Little Mix) and it seems to get largely ignored by the mainstream media, who then again employ him. His own co-host on that piece of trailer trash ITV air clearly hates him, and way beyond a point of being tongue-in-cheek, which is what I think the producers intended for.
Comments
Joking apart there is this misconception that if we’d lost the war life would have gone on, but we would have lost our freedoms, but it would have been much worse than that.
As soon as the war was over, the working class people which was the majority, criticised Churchill big time. I only saw the hustings from 1946 recently on Pathe news but he was getting plenty of stick from ex servicemen at the build up to the first general election after the war.
In February 65, the guys who worked on the Thames didn't want anything to do with the funeral at first.
He was a great man in many ways but he came from the elite and clashed with the people on many occasions in his life
My Dad (84) was and still is a Tory, he married into a staunch Labour family from Poplar, my maternal grandmother was shop-steward at her works and my Dad’s father-in-law called him Churchill’s Decipile. My paternal grandfather fought in both wars and my Dad’s two older brothers fought in WWII. Icidentley my grandad(Royal Artillery) actually met up with his eldest son (my Uncle Sid) who was in the Scotts Guards in North Africa purely by chance! How wonderful must that have been? Churchill was my Dad’s hero.
My form tutor from my 2nd year at Crown Woods till my 5th was a fiery left-wing Red of pure Welsh Valley stock. He was, and indeed still is, a wonderful man. At school he would fight the corner for any pupil who he felt had been unfairly treated. He would take on House Heads, Deputy Heads and even his fellow countryman our Headmaster if he thought there was a hint of injustice. Anyone on here who went to Crown Woods between 1966-1996 knows who I am referring to. With regard to Churchill he told me that he queued for over 10 hours at Westminster Abbey or Hall (or wherever Churchill lay in state, I really can’t be bothered to check) to see his body to, and this is verbatim “make sure the bastard was dead”.
Personally I just hope that I see his name less and less in any form of media without me having to do anything to reduce my intake of the output of the sensationalist idiot.
Completely devoid of any charm or charisma with the intellectual capacity and insight of tin of baked beans.
Do you forgive him for putting the lives of hundreds of British soldiers serving in Iraq and encouraging people to join extremist organisations due to this fake news?
Balls, I missed that.
Is it on catch up?
His opinions on sport are utterly woeful, especially cricket. I suspect he was the press mole KP used in 2012 and then again after the Ashes. His hate campaign towards Andy Flower, Andrew Strauss, Graeme Swann and Alastair Cook was despicable and if he was an ordinary member of the public, he could have been investigated for online harassment.
He has been so un-PC where major issues like transgender equality are concerned (Munroe Bergdorf), mental health awareness (Swann, Trott - "they couldn't hack it"), alt-feminism (Little Mix) and it seems to get largely ignored by the mainstream media, who then again employ him. His own co-host on that piece of trailer trash ITV air clearly hates him, and way beyond a point of being tongue-in-cheek, which is what I think the producers intended for.
The man is a great self publicist with a massive ego.
Sack Piers Morgan
https://www.change.org/p/itv-remove-piers-morgan-from-good-morning-britain-eb0bbf26-46e3-4c18-91e8-3ef67d39ec2b
Dont sack Piers Morgan
Oh, he's not dead ......... ?