EVERY MP should be allowed to say what they feel & vote they way they think on this deal. This superseeds any party allegences.
I feel TM will box her Cabinet into a corner on this one & unlike Chequers they're aren't too many brave enough to do the right thing & stand up and be counted. TM will then go back to the EU saying that she has an agreement.
Not sure if it will get through Parliament. It shouldn't.....but again it depends on whether MP's (esp Tory ones) are man enough to stand up to the whips. I expect the line will be " vote against this & the Government will fall....a GE will follow & you will lose your seat ".
EVERY MP should be allowed to say what they feel & vote they way they think on this deal. This superseeds any party allegences.
I feel TM will box her Cabinet into a corner on this one & unlike Chequers they're aren't too many brave enough to do the right thing & stand up and be counted. TM will then go back to the EU saying that she has an agreement.
Not sure if it will get through Parliament. It shouldn't.....but again it depends on whether MP's (esp Tory ones) are man enough to stand up to the whips. I expect the line will be " vote against this & the Government will fall....a GE will follow & you will lose your seat ".
Interesting times ahead.
The point is that Penny Mordaunt is not just an MP, she's a Secretary of State and a Minister. So, she's in Government. Governments have collective responsibility. So they thrash out their policy and position in cabinet meetings and then all toe the party line. If someone steps out of line, convention says they have to resign. (And, if they didn't, they'd invariably be sacked, pronto).
If you're in Government, you vote with the Government, sometimes holding your nose as you do so. You can always vote against the Government, by doing so, you disqualify yourself from the collective.
If it weren't like this, and Government Ministers were able to vote with their conscience, there would be no need for Government. The PM would dictate what they wanted to happen and cross his or her fingers, hoping sufficient backbenchers voted with them.
So, what's intriguing about Penny Mordaunt's request is that it was even broached - it's so far from the norm. And what's even more startling is that it didn't get a response.
It would appear that we now have a draft Brexit deal with a UK wide CU option agreed with the EU27 so as to avoid controversy over a N.Ireland only solution. This goes to Cabinet in the morning and the CU membership may well continue until there is a longer term arrangement agreed at some point in the future. We also have agreement on the rights of ex-pats and the strange phenomenon of an agreed Brexit divorce bill for some £40bn, but with no guarantee of the long term trade relationship.
EU27 - 3 UK - 1?!
Bojo talking vassel state and the DUP demanding to know why they weren't consulted in advance - there really isn't a polite response to either of those - suffice it to say that these are 11 spectators who cannot be relied upon to close a deal for the sake of the UK. In making such an early response they've effectively played themselves out of the end game.
Of course there is the small matter of the process in the House to take this into law. Will it fly? Nobody really knows right now. But it should be noted that we are not leaving the CU nor the SM on March 29th for there will be a transition period of two to three years leaving it all to play for!
And that's the key question - should we take what we have on the table AND then the UK debates SM membership for a year or two and the associated four freedoms vs the bollocks spouted by Johnson, Fox and Farage.
Or should the Commons reject... or just pass the decision back to the people?
It would appear that we now have a draft Brexit deal with a UK wide CU option agreed with the EU27 so as to avoid controversy over a N.Ireland only solution. This goes to Cabinet in the morning and the CU membership may well continue until there is a longer term arrangement agreed at some point in the future. We also have agreement on the rights of ex-pats and the strange phenomenon of an agreed Brexit divorce bill for some £40bn, but with no guarantee of the long term trade relationship.
EU27 - 3 UK - 1?!
Bojo talking vassel state and the DUP demanding to know why they weren't consulted in advance - there really isn't a polite response to either of those - suffice it to say that these are 11 spectators who cannot be relied upon to close a deal for the sake of the UK. In making such an early response they've effectively played themselves out of the end game.
Of course there is the small matter of the process in the House to take this into law. Will it fly? Nobody really knows right now. But it should be noted that we are not leaving the CU nor the SM on March 29th for there will be a transition period of two to three years leaving it all to play for!
And that's the key question - should we take what we have on the table AND then the UK debates SM membership for a year or two and the associated four freedoms vs the bollocks spouted by Johnson, Fox and Farage.
Or should the Commons reject... or just pass the decision back to the people?
Interesting times.
I think that it's being reported as being more of a technical draft of an agreement, not yet agreed by anyone outside of the negotiating teams themselves - they've attempted to bridge the gaps, but there is no certainty that the EU27 governments or the EU Parliament will find it acceptable.
They may not be happy with what is proposed for a UK-wide backstop, offering a Northern Ireland only one was already bending the rules (to accommodate the Peace Process) more than they would have found comfortable.
It would appear that we now have a draft Brexit deal with a UK wide CU option agreed with the EU27 so as to avoid controversy over a N.Ireland only solution. This goes to Cabinet in the morning and the CU membership may well continue until there is a longer term arrangement agreed at some point in the future. We also have agreement on the rights of ex-pats and the strange phenomenon of an agreed Brexit divorce bill for some £40bn, but with no guarantee of the long term trade relationship.
EU27 - 3 UK - 1?!
Bojo talking vassel state and the DUP demanding to know why they weren't consulted in advance - there really isn't a polite response to either of those - suffice it to say that these are 11 spectators who cannot be relied upon to close a deal for the sake of the UK. In making such an early response they've effectively played themselves out of the end game.
Of course there is the small matter of the process in the House to take this into law. Will it fly? Nobody really knows right now. But it should be noted that we are not leaving the CU nor the SM on March 29th for there will be a transition period of two to three years leaving it all to play for!
And that's the key question - should we take what we have on the table AND then the UK debates SM membership for a year or two and the associated four freedoms vs the bollocks spouted by Johnson, Fox and Farage.
Or should the Commons reject... or just pass the decision back to the people?
Interesting times.
I wouldn't take it & if I had to vote on it I'd say NO.
For me it's either OUT totally or don't fecking bother & stay in. No half way house for me. What did TM say time & time again.....No deal is better than a bad deal. Of course it will be wrapped up that it's a "good deal" as its the only one on the table.
It has been shown that "Brexit" can't be achieved.....mainly because if the GFA, but not just because of it. I know "Brexit" means different things to different people, but I think in most people's language this isn't what people saw as "leaving the EU".
Oh well......I just wonder if I get a say on the deal the Scots get when they want Independence. Probably not. But then, I don't matter do I. I'll just go on paying my taxes & get shafted again the next time Her Majesty's Government ask me what I want.
It would appear that we now have a draft Brexit deal with a UK wide CU option agreed with the EU27 so as to avoid controversy over a N.Ireland only solution. This goes to Cabinet in the morning and the CU membership may well continue until there is a longer term arrangement agreed at some point in the future. We also have agreement on the rights of ex-pats and the strange phenomenon of an agreed Brexit divorce bill for some £40bn, but with no guarantee of the long term trade relationship.
EU27 - 3 UK - 1?!
Bojo talking vassel state and the DUP demanding to know why they weren't consulted in advance - there really isn't a polite response to either of those - suffice it to say that these are 11 spectators who cannot be relied upon to close a deal for the sake of the UK. In making such an early response they've effectively played themselves out of the end game.
Of course there is the small matter of the process in the House to take this into law. Will it fly? Nobody really knows right now. But it should be noted that we are not leaving the CU nor the SM on March 29th for there will be a transition period of two to three years leaving it all to play for!
And that's the key question - should we take what we have on the table AND then the UK debates SM membership for a year or two and the associated four freedoms vs the bollocks spouted by Johnson, Fox and Farage.
Or should the Commons reject... or just pass the decision back to the people?
Interesting times.
I wouldn't take it & if I had to vote on it I'd say NO.
For me it's either OUT totally or don't fecking bother & stay in. No half way house for me. What did TM say time & time again.....No deal is better than a bad deal. Of course it will be wrapped up that it's a "good deal" as its the only one on the table.
It has been shown that "Brexit" can't be achieved.....mainly because if the GFA, but not just because of it. I know "Brexit" means different things to different people, but I think in most people's language this isn't what people saw as "leaving the EU".
Oh well......I just wonder if I get a say on the deal the Scots get when they want Independence. Probably not. But then, I don't matter do I. I'll just go on paying my taxes & get shafted again the next time Her Majesty's Government ask me what I want.
As a remainer I’m not sure I would take this deal either, it seems significantly worse than what we have now and worse than a Norway style deal. I’m not sure it will even give us the ability to strike trade deals with 3rd countries on terms any different from the EUs own deals. I’ll wait and see what actual information is released, hopefully it’s not as bad as the speculation makes it sound.
It is starting to play out now. The deal May got is step one. Will it get through the commons? Looks like it will be presented as this deal or no deal. Will that actually be the case? Interesting and important times!
Nobody outside the cabinet has seen this withdrawal agreement yet. If it doesn't mention blue passports it will be the biggest betrayal in the history of the universe.
By the way, this isn’t even a deal, it’s a withdrawal agreement. The deal that matters is years away
Just shows how ridiculous the rush to trigger Article 50 was. This current agreement is the minimum that should have been sorted before triggering A50. But both main party leaders were keen to trigger it meaning that we are now having to negotiate with the clock ticking giving more power to the EU every day.
You have done an excellent job in seeking to show that Corbyn is not as anti -Brexit as portrayed. By "portrayed" you refer to the media, but by extension you implicitly suggest (quite reasonably) that some of us are wrongly portraying his position on here.
Here is the problem. I am sure we all agree that politics is about getting your message across. I am one of several regulars on here, who criticise Corbyn but who would rather pull out their own teeth than vote Tory. In other words, people who either do, or would be inclined to, vote Labour in normal times. (Indeed I voted Labour last time, but I voted for the pro-Remain Spanner, Clive Efford, and not Corbyn.)
So how is it possible, if Corbyn's position is so coherent, that we have all misunderstood it? You implicitly and courteously suggest that we have believed the media lies. Do I and others in this group really look that gullible that we cannot sift through the media bollocks? In my case I voted for Ken Livingston as GLC head, and Neil Kinnock twice, when the overall tone of media comment, and indeed the views of my peers (at work especially) was far more hostile overall to a Labour government than it is now.
How come we could see through the anti Labour propaganda then, but apparently be duped by it now? Are you really suggesting that the Labour media machine cannot get as much share of voice and clarity on policies as Neil Kinnock in 1987? Well that goes entirely against the praise heaped on the Momentum social media machine and activists for the 2017 result, doesn't it?
Ok , just assuming that the Brexit you wanted, happened. Please give me some examples of how you expect it to improve your own personal life.
Hi @Southbank . It's three pages back so I just wanted to gently remind you of my question
Admittedly it's three years since I first asked you, so a few more days won't hurt.
Ha! I don't have any expectations either way for my personal life-but I guess you mean my finances/ business life. We have just received a big government order to create a post Brexit thing (can't go into any detail for confidentially reasons) which will create new jobs and would have gone to a different European country pre-Brexit. I imagine there is a lot of that happening. In general I think the UK economy will carry on pretty much as it is if we leave or if we do not. As you know economics is not the reason I voted Brexit.
I mean everything in your personal life that you reasonably believe could be made better by government policies. Things that currently make you unhappy enough that you have spent hours of your life resolutely pushing Brexit for the last three years on a football forum. In so far as you have ever explained this obsession, you talk about "sovereignty". What I want to know is, assuming you get your "sovereignty" back, how, in your daily life will it make you feel, and why? For the sake of argument I'll allow you to assume that "the UK economy will carry on pretty much as it is" even though I don't believe that for one minute. What will this "return of sovereignty" bring you? There are millions of people I would ask them same thing by the way. They wave around this "sovereignty" thing, and I have not the faintest idea what they expect from it. Or in many cases, if they can even define the loss of 'sovereignty' that they currently feel- you have certainly struggled with that.
Go on, give me a couple of concrete ways in which your own life will be materially better.
Ok , just assuming that the Brexit you wanted, happened. Please give me some examples of how you expect it to improve your own personal life.
Hi @Southbank . It's three pages back so I just wanted to gently remind you of my question
Admittedly it's three years since I first asked you, so a few more days won't hurt.
Ha! I don't have any expectations either way for my personal life-but I guess you mean my finances/ business life. We have just received a big government order to create a post Brexit thing (can't go into any detail for confidentially reasons) which will create new jobs and would have gone to a different European country pre-Brexit. I imagine there is a lot of that happening. In general I think the UK economy will carry on pretty much as it is if we leave or if we do not. As you know economics is not the reason I voted Brexit.
I mean everything in your personal life that you reasonably believe could be made better by government policies. Things that currently make you unhappy enough that you have spent hours of your life resolutely pushing Brexit for the last three years on a football forum. In so far as you have ever explained this obsession, you talk about "sovereignty". What I want to know is, assuming you get your "sovereignty" back, how, in your daily life will it make you feel, and why? For the sake of argument I'll allow you to assume that "the UK economy will carry on pretty much as it is" even though I don't believe that for one minute. What will this "return of sovereignty" bring you? There are millions of people I would ask them same thing by the way. They wave around this "sovereignty" thing, and I have not the faintest idea what they expect from it. Or in many cases, if they can even define the loss of 'sovereignty' that they currently feel- you have certainly struggled with that.
Go on, give me a couple of concrete ways in which your own life will be materially better.
Ok , just assuming that the Brexit you wanted, happened. Please give me some examples of how you expect it to improve your own personal life.
Hi @Southbank . It's three pages back so I just wanted to gently remind you of my question
Admittedly it's three years since I first asked you, so a few more days won't hurt.
Ha! I don't have any expectations either way for my personal life-but I guess you mean my finances/ business life. We have just received a big government order to create a post Brexit thing (can't go into any detail for confidentially reasons) which will create new jobs and would have gone to a different European country pre-Brexit. I imagine there is a lot of that happening. In general I think the UK economy will carry on pretty much as it is if we leave or if we do not. As you know economics is not the reason I voted Brexit.
I mean everything in your personal life that you reasonably believe could be made better by government policies. Things that currently make you unhappy enough that you have spent hours of your life resolutely pushing Brexit for the last three years on a football forum. In so far as you have ever explained this obsession, you talk about "sovereignty". What I want to know is, assuming you get your "sovereignty" back, how, in your daily life will it make you feel, and why? For the sake of argument I'll allow you to assume that "the UK economy will carry on pretty much as it is" even though I don't believe that for one minute. What will this "return of sovereignty" bring you? There are millions of people I would ask them same thing by the way. They wave around this "sovereignty" thing, and I have not the faintest idea what they expect from it. Or in many cases, if they can even define the loss of 'sovereignty' that they currently feel- you have certainly struggled with that.
Go on, give me a couple of concrete ways in which your own life will be materially better.
Has anyone mentioned blue passports ?
I'm up for one of these super secret contracts that would have gone elsewhere if it weren't for brexit. You'd have thought they'd have given the passports to de la rue with all these knocking about.
I remember joining the common market in the first place.
Those on the left (to put it simply) did not want to join what they called a 'big businessmen's club'.
At the time the left wanted stuff like health, housing, education, equality, living wages, health and safety at work, decent pensions, workers rights and stuff.
That kind of stuff was not on offer when joining the (what was then) the common market.
Corbyn and I are of the same generation more or less, and I feel confident in saying the Corbyn would've been in the anti big businessmen's club brigade.
However since joining the good news is that Europe has been about more than trade. Google it if you want, but financial support for disadvantaged areas, security co-operation, freedom to travel, live, work and indeed in some areas vote in the EU. Human rights, workers protections and so on.
So I would agree that Corbyn was very probably anti EU to start with, but now he makes reference to the subsequent benefits that have happened over the years, workers rights for example.
Corbyn probably has a gut reaction against corporate dominance and exploitation, yet he probably recognises the very many benefits of the EU and he is caught in a personal baby and bathwater dilemma.
He is also worried about the so called working class core support that voted leave, for whom detailed analysis is not a turn on, but putting the boot into those they see as responsible for austerity is.
I wish Corbyn was much braver.
I wish he would try to persuade his core leaver vote that staying is better, that the Tories are generally vile and not on their side, but if after all that they need to find a new political home then so be it.
The Labour position lacks courage, and in that regard Rees Mogg is braver, and on that reasoning I disagree with Henry's reference to Animal Farm where he suggested there was no difference between Rees Mogg and Corbyn.
I think there is a difference, although not one that is very encouraging. The Rees Mogg stance is beautifully definite yet destructive, the Corbyn stance is hideously indefinite yet contains hope for rebuilding something better that what the Tories offer.
Ok , just assuming that the Brexit you wanted, happened. Please give me some examples of how you expect it to improve your own personal life.
Hi @Southbank . It's three pages back so I just wanted to gently remind you of my question
Admittedly it's three years since I first asked you, so a few more days won't hurt.
Ha! I don't have any expectations either way for my personal life-but I guess you mean my finances/ business life. We have just received a big government order to create a post Brexit thing (can't go into any detail for confidentially reasons) which will create new jobs and would have gone to a different European country pre-Brexit. I imagine there is a lot of that happening. In general I think the UK economy will carry on pretty much as it is if we leave or if we do not. As you know economics is not the reason I voted Brexit.
I mean everything in your personal life that you reasonably believe could be made better by government policies. Things that currently make you unhappy enough that you have spent hours of your life resolutely pushing Brexit for the last three years on a football forum. In so far as you have ever explained this obsession, you talk about "sovereignty". What I want to know is, assuming you get your "sovereignty" back, how, in your daily life will it make you feel, and why? For the sake of argument I'll allow you to assume that "the UK economy will carry on pretty much as it is" even though I don't believe that for one minute. What will this "return of sovereignty" bring you? There are millions of people I would ask them same thing by the way. They wave around this "sovereignty" thing, and I have not the faintest idea what they expect from it. Or in many cases, if they can even define the loss of 'sovereignty' that they currently feel- you have certainly struggled with that.
Go on, give me a couple of concrete ways in which your own life will be materially better.
Has anyone mentioned blue passports ?
I'm up for one of these super secret contracts that would have gone elsewhere if it weren't for brexit. You'd have thought they'd have given the passports to de la rue with all these knocking about.
Well this contract that @Southbank tells us about cloaked in secrecy intrigues me. If it’s been awarded. A done deal. Done and dusted then what confidentiality is required ? Surely this ought to be announced with a fanfare. It might signal to a lot of people that Brexit is not all bad news.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m certainly not saying that this contract doesn’t exist. What I’m saying is that it’s mightily odd that something so welcome is not being lauded.
It's not about Corbyn being braver, it's about him being honest.
Rees Mogg is bolder but no more honest. He and his mates promised unicorns for everyone during the campaign.
What they have in common, and hence the Animal Farm reference, is that they both think they can only create the UK they want, (extreme free trade v extreme state control key industries).
This opinion piece in today’s Times makes some good points about the essential conundrum and contradictions of where we are now. It also reiterates the point that this deal is the best we could hope for no matter who was leading the negotiations.
This opinion piece in today’s Times makes some good points about the essential conundrum and contradictions of where we are now. It also reiterates the point that this deal is the best we could hope for no matter who was leading the negotiations.
How many of you were so convinced that the EU army quote from Farage and Co was complete fantasy? Well guess what...Macron calls for it and Merkal mentioned it in the EU parliament today.
Not so much of a fantasy now is it?
Hi Disco,
Here's a long list of myths about the EU debunked, with links;
Comments
I feel TM will box her Cabinet into a corner on this one & unlike Chequers they're aren't too many brave enough to do the right thing & stand up and be counted. TM will then go back to the EU saying that she has an agreement.
Not sure if it will get through Parliament. It shouldn't.....but again it depends on whether MP's (esp Tory ones) are man enough to stand up to the whips. I expect the line will be " vote against this & the Government will fall....a GE will follow & you will lose your seat ".
Interesting times ahead.
If you're in Government, you vote with the Government, sometimes holding your nose as you do so. You can always vote against the Government, by doing so, you disqualify yourself from the collective.
If it weren't like this, and Government Ministers were able to vote with their conscience, there would be no need for Government. The PM would dictate what they wanted to happen and cross his or her fingers, hoping sufficient backbenchers voted with them.
So, what's intriguing about Penny Mordaunt's request is that it was even broached - it's so far from the norm. And what's even more startling is that it didn't get a response.
EU27 - 3 UK - 1?!
Bojo talking vassel state and the DUP demanding to know why they weren't consulted in advance - there really isn't a polite response to either of those - suffice it to say that these are 11 spectators who cannot be relied upon to close a deal for the sake of the UK. In making such an early response they've effectively played themselves out of the end game.
Of course there is the small matter of the process in the House to take this into law. Will it fly? Nobody really knows right now. But it should be noted that we are not leaving the CU nor the SM on March 29th for there will be a transition period of two to three years leaving it all to play for!
And that's the key question - should we take what we have on the table AND then the UK debates SM membership for a year or two and the associated four freedoms vs the bollocks spouted by Johnson, Fox and Farage.
Or should the Commons reject... or just pass the decision back to the people?
Interesting times.
They may not be happy with what is proposed for a UK-wide backstop, offering a Northern Ireland only one was already bending the rules (to accommodate the Peace Process) more than they would have found comfortable.
For me it's either OUT totally or don't fecking bother & stay in. No half way house for me. What did TM say time & time again.....No deal is better than a bad deal. Of course it will be wrapped up that it's a "good deal" as its the only one on the table.
It has been shown that "Brexit" can't be achieved.....mainly because if the GFA, but not just because of it. I know "Brexit" means different things to different people, but I think in most people's language this isn't what people saw as "leaving the EU".
Oh well......I just wonder if I get a say on the deal the Scots get when they want Independence. Probably not. But then, I don't matter do I. I'll just go on paying my taxes & get shafted again the next time Her Majesty's Government ask me what I want.
You lost, get over it.
Any MP who disagrees is a traitor and an enemy of the people.
NB Irony alert
If it doesn't mention blue passports it will be the biggest betrayal in the history of the universe.
You have done an excellent job in seeking to show that Corbyn is not as anti -Brexit as portrayed. By "portrayed" you refer to the media, but by extension you implicitly suggest (quite reasonably) that some of us are wrongly portraying his position on here.
Here is the problem. I am sure we all agree that politics is about getting your message across. I am one of several regulars on here, who criticise Corbyn but who would rather pull out their own teeth than vote Tory. In other words, people who either do, or would be inclined to, vote Labour in normal times. (Indeed I voted Labour last time, but I voted for the pro-Remain Spanner, Clive Efford, and not Corbyn.)
So how is it possible, if Corbyn's position is so coherent, that we have all misunderstood it? You implicitly and courteously suggest that we have believed the media lies. Do I and others in this group really look that gullible that we cannot sift through the media bollocks? In my case I voted for Ken Livingston as GLC head, and Neil Kinnock twice, when the overall tone of media comment, and indeed the views of my peers (at work especially) was far more hostile overall to a Labour government than it is now.
How come we could see through the anti Labour propaganda then, but apparently be duped by it now? Are you really suggesting that the Labour media machine cannot get as much share of voice and clarity on policies as Neil Kinnock in 1987? Well that goes entirely against the praise heaped on the Momentum social media machine and activists for the 2017 result, doesn't it?
Go on, give me a couple of concrete ways in which your own life will be materially better.
Those on the left (to put it simply) did not want to join what they called a 'big businessmen's club'.
At the time the left wanted stuff like health, housing, education, equality, living wages, health and safety at work, decent pensions, workers rights and stuff.
That kind of stuff was not on offer when joining the (what was then) the common market.
Corbyn and I are of the same generation more or less, and I feel confident in saying the Corbyn would've been in the anti big businessmen's club brigade.
However since joining the good news is that Europe has been about more than trade. Google it if you want, but financial support for disadvantaged areas, security co-operation, freedom to travel, live, work and indeed in some areas vote in the EU. Human rights, workers protections and so on.
So I would agree that Corbyn was very probably anti EU to start with, but now he makes reference to the subsequent benefits that have happened over the years, workers rights for example.
Corbyn probably has a gut reaction against corporate dominance and exploitation, yet he probably recognises the very many benefits of the EU and he is caught in a personal baby and bathwater dilemma.
He is also worried about the so called working class core support that voted leave, for whom detailed analysis is not a turn on, but putting the boot into those they see as responsible for austerity is.
I wish Corbyn was much braver.
I wish he would try to persuade his core leaver vote that staying is better, that the Tories are generally vile and not on their side, but if after all that they need to find a new political home then so be it.
The Labour position lacks courage, and in that regard Rees Mogg is braver, and on that reasoning I disagree with Henry's reference to Animal Farm where he suggested there was no difference between Rees Mogg and Corbyn.
I think there is a difference, although not one that is very encouraging. The Rees Mogg stance is beautifully definite yet destructive, the Corbyn stance is hideously indefinite yet contains hope for rebuilding something better that what the Tories offer.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m certainly not saying that this contract doesn’t exist. What I’m saying is that it’s mightily odd that something so welcome is not being lauded.
It's not about Corbyn being braver, it's about him being honest.
Rees Mogg is bolder but no more honest. He and his mates promised unicorns for everyone during the campaign.
What they have in common, and hence the Animal Farm reference, is that they both think they can only create the UK they want, (extreme free trade v extreme state control key industries).
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jo-johnsons-stance-on-brexit-is-dishonest-and-dangerous-q8rqz9r3j?shareToken=fcbc184f4118a1cca462b2b96daf9bc2
Here's a long list of myths about the EU debunked, with links;
https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/