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Should We legalise Cannabis?

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  • I can see the 'arguments' for and against legalisation being as accurate as those in the Brexit referendum campaigns.

    So what do you suggest?
  • dizzee said:

    colthe3rd said:

    1StevieG said:

    Yes. The war on drugs is an epic failure. I doubt cannabis will ever be legalized here though.

    A lot will come down to how much money Canada will make from it. If there's a penny to be made the Tories will undoubtedly look to get in on the act. I feel as if there is a certain generation that the majority will be against legalisation, once they start dying off I think we'll see more talking from ministers about the potential of legalising it.
    Any government, not just ‘the tories’. You really think any government has your best interest at heart?
    Fair point, I guess I feel like the tories would be the more reluctant than others to do it but the profit side would be more of a deciding factor.
  • colthe3rd said:

    1StevieG said:

    Yes. The war on drugs is an epic failure. I doubt cannabis will ever be legalized here though.

    A lot will come down to how much money Canada will make from it. If there's a penny to be made the Tories will undoubtedly look to get in on the act. I feel as if there is a certain generation that the majority will be against legalisation, once they start dying off I think we'll see more talking from ministers about the potential of legalising it.
    They already are !! Google Philip may cannabis
  • dizzee said:

    'Tax it to the high heavens' is a silly argument as then dealers will continue to sell it but far cheaper.

    Then the crime gangs deal this cheap cannabis plus harder drugs. And people are exposed to cannabis when they wouldn't have been as it becomes like alcohol, accepted in our society. Not to mention the mental health issues.

    The world has gone mad.

    Portugal hasn't had that issue and neither has America. Amsterdam has hardly become a street dealers dream either and it's been fine to smoke there for years.
  • shine166 said:

    dizzee said:

    'Tax it to the high heavens' is a silly argument as then dealers will continue to sell it but far cheaper.

    Then the crime gangs deal this cheap cannabis plus harder drugs. And people are exposed to cannabis when they wouldn't have been as it becomes like alcohol, accepted in our society. Not to mention the mental health issues.

    The world has gone mad.

    Portugal hasn't had that issue and neither has America. Amsterdam has hardly become a street dealers dream either and it's been fine to smoke there for years.

    Agree with your comment ref Amsterdam street dealers. I’ve been going over there regularly since ‘99 and the drop in the number of people approaching to sell you their ‘Es and charlie, you want Es and charlie’ has dropped massively. The first time I went you couldn’t go more than ten feet (especially in the RLD and on the Damrak) without being offered some sort of shite but fast forward nearly twenty years and the change has been remarkable. Last time I went I only got approached once, in the RLD, in five days. Certainly makes for a more pleasant trip.

  • shine166 said:

    dizzee said:

    'Tax it to the high heavens' is a silly argument as then dealers will continue to sell it but far cheaper.

    Then the crime gangs deal this cheap cannabis plus harder drugs. And people are exposed to cannabis when they wouldn't have been as it becomes like alcohol, accepted in our society. Not to mention the mental health issues.

    The world has gone mad.

    Portugal hasn't had that issue and neither has America. Amsterdam has hardly become a street dealers dream either and it's been fine to smoke there for years.

    Agree with your comment ref Amsterdam street dealers. I’ve been going over there regularly since ‘99 and the drop in the number of people approaching to sell you their ‘Es and charlie, you want Es and charlie’ has dropped massively. The first time I went you couldn’t go more than ten feet (especially in the RLD and on the Damrak) without being offered some sort of shite but fast forward nearly twenty years and the change has been remarkable. Last time I went I only got approached once, in the RLD, in five days. Certainly makes for a more pleasant trip.

    I remember going to Amsterdam as a naive teenager and somebody asking me 'if I fancied going on a trip'...
  • Good idea in my book, much safer than alcohol, would be good for the economy and no suggestion it would spike a rise in crime (crimes has decreased in Colorado).

    I’ve seen it then people psychotic and suicidal. I don’t decry what you are saying about alcohol though
  • dizzee said:

    dizzee said:

    High taxes = dealers will still exist to undercut

    Mental health = does no favours

    Dealers = will look to push harder drugs to sell

    Other issues = kids always look to the next thing to be a bit rebellious so we'll then have every 14 year old in the country sniffing coke instead of smoking weed and will lead to many addictions.

    Some of that is exposure though. If the kids never meet the dealers then how do they push the harder stuff.

    The Netherlands has bucked the trend in western countries in heroin use. It has mainly been attributed to the 'soft drugs' and 'hard drugs' policy.
    Well how do kids meet the dealers nowadays for cannabis. It'll be the same as now but for harder drugs.
    I'm glad you accept that there will always be a level of drug use. The evidence is that kids don't just start trying crack or heroin, they start with gate way drugs like cannabis. So why not try to separate them from the very people that also sell the harder stuff. Why not offer them a safe product and use the revenues for treatment, education and to go after the harder stuff? Instead we currently use funds from the public purse to ineffectively fight increasingly wealthy criminals.

    This argument has already happened in prohibition America.
    So let’s ban cider as by your reasoning it leads drinkers onto stronger alcoholic drinks and the ‘possibility’ of alcoholism.
  • 0 recorded deaths.
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  • ...I also don't think the effects of cannabis are really known. I know this is tangible but whenever gun crimes happen in America, or terrorists attack people, we're always told that they were habitual users of cannabis.

    https://youtu.be/sbjHOBJzhb0

  • Race to the bottom
  • edited October 2018

    I can assure you that effect of Cannabis is well know in mental health arena.

    I am absolutely clear that it needs to be legalised and controlled. (Don't really care about taxing it unless it's hypothecated to mental health spending).

    My son became a heavy user. By the time he was 17 he was suffering from paranoia caused by its use.

    Those on here who know my story will know that my son has some mental and emotional issues having suffered from the impact of very early life trauma, before he was adopted by my wife & I.

    For him Cannabis use was a way of self medicating. It also helped him to socialise when he found that very difficult.

    Most, if not all of the young people he shared Cannabis use with were also suffering from trauma and the mental health impact it. I know many of them personally and I helped many of them when I can to get help and support.

    A help run a Facebook support group for parents and carers of children & young people who have suffered from very early life trauma which has created attachment issues. The shorthand for this is Attachment Disorder but Psychologists now call it developmental trauma disorder.

    We currently have a membership of around 7,500.

    Many of those parents & carers whose children are moving through adolescence to adulthood are confronted with the challenge of the drug use of their trauma based children.

    We need a completely different approach. Legalising Cannabis won't stop those people self medicating but it won't sweep it away under the carpet, force young people into crime and the prison system.

    I am pleased to say after a huge fight, my son has got mental health support and he has largely stopped smoking it. He's lucky. He has people fighting to help him. Others are not so fortunate.

    I know dozens of users.....since the late 60’s....’none’ of them (and I do mean none of them) suffer from mental health issues .....that’s all I can tell you bing.
    Many of them still have a puff to this day.
    I myself haven’t had a joint for 10 years or so.......though I was never a heavy user anyway.
    Mind you.....I’m mad as a box of frogs!
  • @SoundAsa£ it's the strains of weed now. Skunk and derivatives. High in THC.

    Cannabis is primarily made up of two chemicals THC and CBD. It's generally accepted that in older times, the balance of these chemicals were much more 50/50. CBD is believed to counteract the psychotic effects of THC. Hash for example is much more balanced in its chemicals.

    Legalising Cannabis will allow more knowledge and thus choice. At the moment you just get what they push out.
  • @SoundAsa£ it's the strains of weed now. Skunk and derivatives. High in THC.

    Cannabis is primarily made up of two chemicals THC and CBD. It's generally accepted that in older times, the balance of these chemicals were much more 50/50. CBD is believed to counteract the psychotic effects of THC. Hash for example is much more balanced in its chemicals.

    Legalising Cannabis will allow more knowledge and thus choice. At the moment you just get what they push out.

    Can’t argue with that bing.

  • Make it available and dont tax it heavily. Change the laws and sentencing to come down very very hard on anyone dealing outside the legal process or selling on to under 18’s. Use all the raised revenue to fight class A drug dealing and when dealers are caught imprison them for a very long time even for quite small amounts. Large dealing operations should receive life with minimum of 20 years.

    The endgame must be that it's either available from Boots, Wetherspoons and O'Neills or not. At the same time there has to be more resource on the mental health side plus taking out product which is reckless.

    And class A drugs are a no no.
  • edited October 2018
    Drug classification under the Misuse of drugs act is not a great measure of the harms of illegal drugs and it really started to go pearshaped with the classification of MDMA / Ecstacy as A against the recommendations of the Advisory council (if I remember right). There has always been a tension between health and "moral" considerations.

    Legalising therapeutic use as managed by health professionals seems to me to be a good thing. Frankly recreational use of any drug, legal or illegal, should be left out of the equation. Recreational cannabis users who see themselves as having common cause with those who need it in order to manage health conditions are misguided. I dont mean they are wrong to campaign for legalisation for something they see as a legitimate practice, it just isnt the same thing. The substance is not the issue. It is the relationship to the substance that defines harms and benefits. I stopped smoking dope years ago because my relationship with it got unhealthy. A sign of that was that it still took me a couple of years from knowing it wasn't good for me to finally stopping and not to feel that I was missing out.
  • Make it available and dont tax it heavily. Change the laws and sentencing to come down very very hard on anyone dealing outside the legal process or selling on to under 18’s. Use all the raised revenue to fight class A drug dealing and when dealers are caught imprison them for a very long time even for quite small amounts. Large dealing operations should receive life with minimum of 20 years.

    The endgame must be that it's either available from Boots, Wetherspoons and O'Neills or not. At the same time there has to be more resource on the mental health side plus taking out product which is reckless.

    And class A drugs are a no no.
    That's a very sweeping statement. Ecstacy/MDMA and magic mushrooms are class A drugs but I wouldn't say they compared to heroin or crack.
  • In my opinion obvs.

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  • We have a nationwide drug problem and a policy which is failing - arguing in favour of the status quo doesn't appear sensible.
  • If it was legalised - it would be essential that all tax revenues were spent on drug related issues.
  • If it was legalised - it would be essential that all tax revenues were spent on drug related issues.

    I wouldn't bank on it....
  • edited October 2018
    I have mental health issues and also smoke lots of cannabis... my struggles though come from mental absue as a kid and seeing my mum treated like a punch bag during my early years.

    Would I have had issues if I didnt smoke ? yes probably as booze turns me into a twot (so I dont drink it) and I used to fight a lot as a kid.

    causation or correlation is the real question

    Ironically, before I was offered help by the doctors, I had to prove I didnt smoke weed..... so that they could give me opioids lol

    some logic that

  • shine166 said:

    I have mental health issues and also smoke lots of cannabis... my struggles though come from mental absue as a kid and seeing my mum treated like a punch bag during my early years.

    Would I have had issues if I didnt smoke ? yes probably as booze turns me into a twot (so I dont drink it) and I used to fight a lot as a kid.

    causation or correlation is the real question

    Ironically, before I was offered help by the doctors, I had to prove I didnt smoke weed..... so that they could give me opioids lol

    some logic that

    I've known a number of individuals whose psychosis appears to have been triggered by cannabis use. I'm not a great fan of it but understand that people will continue to use it for various reasons and see existing drug policies as failing.

    Alcohol and drugs can both cause physical and mental health issues.
  • They should legalise all drugs, and show their use by middle class baby boomers like Jeremy Clarkson. He'll do for crack what he did for stone washed denim, and kill it off completely. No wonder the kids today don't drink, they are too embarrassed about it.
  • McBobbin said:

    They should legalise all drugs, and show their use by middle class baby boomers like Jeremy Clarkson. He'll do for crack what he did for stone washed denim, and kill it off completely. No wonder the kids today don't drink, they are too embarrassed about it.

    Not a bad idea.
  • TBF Brian Paddick was saying this in 2002 when he was police commissioner for Lambeth. 16 years on there have not been any significant changes.
  • I can assure you that effect of Cannabis is well know in mental health arena.

    I am absolutely clear that it needs to be legalised and controlled. (Don't really care about taxing it unless it's hypothecated to mental health spending).

    My son became a heavy user. By the time he was 17 he was suffering from paranoia caused by its use.

    Those on here who know my story will know that my son has some mental and emotional issues having suffered from the impact of very early life trauma, before he was adopted by my wife & I.

    For him Cannabis use was a way of self medicating. It also helped him to socialise when he found that very difficult.

    Most, if not all of the young people he shared Cannabis use with were also suffering from trauma and the mental health impact it. I know many of them personally and I helped many of them when I can to get help and support.

    A help run a Facebook support group for parents and carers of children & young people who have suffered from very early life trauma which has created attachment issues. The shorthand for this is Attachment Disorder but Psychologists now call it developmental trauma disorder.

    We currently have a membership of around 7,500.

    Many of those parents & carers whose children are moving through adolescence to adulthood are confronted with the challenge of the drug use of their trauma based children.

    We need a completely different approach. Legalising Cannabis won't stop those people self medicating but it won't sweep it away under the carpet, force young people into crime and the prison system.

    I am pleased to say after a huge fight, my son has got mental health support and he has largely stopped smoking it. He's lucky. He has people fighting to help him. Others are not so fortunate.

    Great post - would love to know more about your facebook group.

    I lead a charity that works with young people and their families. I have some international responsibilities as part of this work. Last year I was in San Francisco around the time that cannabis was legalised and had the opportunity to talk with professionals working in the feld. I am a social libertarian by instinct and have largely held the view that we should legalise cannabis.

    I met with a senior professional in the youth justice system , himself an old hippy and he surprised me by saying that the early evidence was that legalisation was lowering the age of first contact and increasing overall use amongst young people

    This coupled with the undoubted significant risks to young people who have a propensity towards mental health issues has challenged by notion that legalisation is the answer.

    That said to criminalise drug use given the links between childhood trauma , toxic stress and addiction are well proven seems perverse and sadistic. In essence the war on drugs is just a war on traumatised people that need help.
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