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Cryptos

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  • Addick90 said:

    Everything has been rising again the past hour

    I am getting more interested by the day with this topic, is there a dummies guide I could be pointed too re bitcoin and the like.

    Easiest way sign up to Coinbase buy some etherum(cheaper and faster than BTC) and transfer it to another exchange to trade with other coins
    So i am on coinbase but not sure i can use my natwest card? What other options do i have?
    What card have you got, should be accepted
    https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1963534-payment-methods-for-uk-customers

    I just use my debit card
    I opened a Revolut account for free, transferred money from my bank into this, converted GBP to Euros and did a SEPA transfer to my Coinbase account from Revolut for free. Revolut account was then verified and I can transfer my money in and out with ease. Just cuts out all the SEPA charges
  • Hi, @PolzeathNick , good to see you on this thread.

    A few days and several pages further back, I posted this link to a Motley Fool article which essentially agrees with your viewpoint on how to invest. It mentions there an investment trust from Polar Capital which includes Microsoft as one of its major holdings. I've watchlisted that fund, rather than piling in now, because I'm aware the big tech reporting season is almost upon us and might gave an effect on the fund price if some of them disappoint. Any thoughts?

    Realistically the impact of blockchain on Microsoft's earnings and thus market cap (currently $695bn!) will be de minimis - moreover if you want to own Microsoft then just buy it rather than a fund which has a small holding in it (alongside lots of other small holdings that have no blockchain exposure whatsoever).

    Looking forward I would expect there to be a 'blockchain ETF' created by one of the more innovative providers and this will likely offer a sensible way to get diversified exposure to the specific theme.
    Read on the Vechain subreddit the other day some one was planning on making an ethereum based digital contract that would allow people to pay into a fund to own Vechain (if you own 10,000 + you will get 30% more Thor generated after the rebrand) and you will receive your share of extra Thor.

    So I think these types of things are coming along
  • edited January 2018
    I see all up today.
    Ripple up almost 20 per cent according to my App (Crypto market)
  • Have just finished a fascinating meeting with one of blockchain's leading pioneers and advocates - I'm increasingly convinced by the inevitability of the technology across multiple industries, but I'm increasingly unconvinced that speculating in coins is a smart way to gain exposure to it.

    Unfortunately I view those doing so as effectively being 'outsiders' playing an 'insiders' game (to quote Warren Buffett, “If you've been playing poker for half an hour and you still don't know who the patsy is, you're the patsy.” Most or even all of these coins may ultimately be worthless but not before the 'insiders' have cleaned up at the expense of mug punters.

    Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    From a retail investment point of view there are still very few interesting and accessible ways to gain exposure, and moreover many of the 'public utility' features of the technology do not necessarily imply great profits.

    So putting that more bluntly... just because I have "bought Vechain" I am not a shareholder, or even necessarily a stakeholder in the business success of Vechain. So will there be any relationship between the price of the Vechain tokens and the business success of the company? @kentaddick would answer "yes", I think. The jury is out...

    To your earlier point the obvious reason why not to just buy Microsoft shares is diversification. It isn't the only company with the interest or the means to benefit from blockchain tech. The fund is clearly on the lookout for others. Generally as a mug punter I decided a while ago there is no point in trying to own individual shares and expect to benefit, since I haven't got the time resource or knowledge to interrogate company performances. Generally the broader brush approach of buying funds has paid off for me.

  • Have just finished a fascinating meeting with one of blockchain's leading pioneers and advocates - I'm increasingly convinced by the inevitability of the technology across multiple industries, but I'm increasingly unconvinced that speculating in coins is a smart way to gain exposure to it.

    Unfortunately I view those doing so as effectively being 'outsiders' playing an 'insiders' game (to quote Warren Buffett, “If you've been playing poker for half an hour and you still don't know who the patsy is, you're the patsy.” Most or even all of these coins may ultimately be worthless but not before the 'insiders' have cleaned up at the expense of mug punters.

    Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    From a retail investment point of view there are still very few interesting and accessible ways to gain exposure, and moreover many of the 'public utility' features of the technology do not necessarily imply great profits.

    So putting that more bluntly... just because I have "bought Vechain" I am not a shareholder, or even necessarily a stakeholder in the business success of Vechain. So will there be any relationship between the price of the Vechain tokens and the business success of the company? @kentaddick would answer "yes", I think. The jury is out...

    To your earlier point the obvious reason why not to just buy Microsoft shares is diversification. It isn't the only company with the interest or the means to benefit from blockchain tech. The fund is clearly on the lookout for others. Generally as a mug punter I decided a while ago there is no point in trying to own individual shares and expect to benefit, since I haven't got the time resource or knowledge to interrogate company performances. Generally the broader brush approach of buying funds has paid off for me.

    You're definitely not a shareholder in Vechain or any other coin you might purchase - moreover unless the supply is limited as it is purported to be in the case of Bitcoin (which in turn may lend it some store of value traits) then surely the rational thing for the network to do would be to issue more coins when the price is high (just as a company would issue more equity in those circumstances, or just as a country's money supply increases over time thus debasing the currency gradually).

    With regard to the Polar fund, notwithstanding the unavoidably attractive fact that the manager is an Addick, personally I would wait until there is a more focused fund or ETF specifically for this opportunity. However if you like the general opportunity in technology then it's probably ok (top holdings today in case not aware are: Alphabet, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Samsung, Tencent, Amazon, Alibaba, Taiwan Semiconductor, Applied Materials - with respect not exactly a contrarian or original series of bets!).

    Also note that the trust is currently trading at a small premium and if there was a shift in sentiment towards technology then this would swiftly turn into a discount - I'm not sure why someone would pay £1.03 for £1 of exposure to the above types of companies.
  • Thanks @newyorkaddick , sound advice.
  • Vechain is quite different from other cryptos. After the rebrand you are, in a sense, a stakeholder. You will be rewarded with Thor depending on how much Vechain you own. Call this dividends. What this Thor will be worth is dependent on the market of course, but it does give you an incentive to have and to hold Vechain.

    To use and access the network, so say you want to send some one in another country, or even your own, a package of something and you want to you buy Thor to input the info onto the blockchain, so your products authenticity is proven for all to see.

    Now say, you’re a haulage firm and use the Vechain blockchain everyday, thousands of times. It’s in your interest to buy and hold thousands of Vechain so you will produce Thor. Sure Vechain would be expensive, but maintaining an admin department etc and buying Thor long term is far more expensive.

    It’s why I think Vechain has a future, if it takes off (and the partnerships they have I think a literal disaster would have to happen for that to be the case) then it will be used practically and have a real actual value, rather than speculative.

    Would buying thousands of Vechain mean you will then have passive income of Thor and retire? Who’s to say.

    But I think saying all cryptos are and will forever just be speculative value is wrong.
  • Have just finished a fascinating meeting with one of blockchain's leading pioneers and advocates - I'm increasingly convinced by the inevitability of the technology across multiple industries, but I'm increasingly unconvinced that speculating in coins is a smart way to gain exposure to it.

    Unfortunately I view those doing so as effectively being 'outsiders' playing an 'insiders' game (to quote Warren Buffett, “If you've been playing poker for half an hour and you still don't know who the patsy is, you're the patsy.”) Most or even all of these coins may ultimately be worthless but not before the 'insiders' have cleaned up at the expense of mug punters.

    Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    From a retail investment point of view there are still very few interesting and accessible ways to gain exposure, and moreover many of the 'public utility' features of the technology do not necessarily imply great profits.

    Agree with this entirely and has been thing on my mind for a while now. Blockchain is the game changing technology but it doesn't seem straightforward to invest and profit from that realisation!

    If anything blockchain is going to reduce costs in processes, so industries that could benefit in that regard must be worth looking at.

  • Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
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  • I think the idea of blockchain is more exciting to me regarding decentralised information, rather than money.
  • edited January 2018


    Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (or some new blockchain-based betting network) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
  • I'm pretty new to this game with a couple of Ethereum and a few Naga, Vechain and KuCoins. Not very much, basically a speculative dabble.

    I've looked at a few Youtube videos and done a bit of reading but what I really want is a link to an Idiots Guide To Blockchain.

    Rather than Google and have to read through a whole load of stuff I don't understand (I've tried this) does anyone out there know a good link? I do prefer to have a good understanding of what I'm investing in as, thanks to a dodgy financial advisor, I have been involved in some bad investments in the past.

  • Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.

  • Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.
    this is almost exactly what Vechain are doing. Minus being money, but rather being information
  • edited January 2018


    Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.
    But don't the likes of Visa and MasterCard already enable people to transact seamlessly across the world without ever needing to see a foreign banknote on their travels? It's interesting as an aside that their respective share prices continue to appreciate at a rapid rate despite all of the blockchain noise.

    However to reiterate I can clearly see lots of potential uses for the technology but I am just struggling to see the attraction of owning and/or speculating in the coins (with the possible exception of Bitcoin as a digital store of value). If the coins have limited/fixed supply then it would be highly deflationary (what incentive would they be to spend them?) whilst if they instead have growing supply then why the clamour to own them?


  • Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.
    But don't the likes of Visa and MasterCard already enable people to transact seamlessly across the world without ever needing to see a foreign banknote on their travels? It's interesting as an aside that their respective share prices continue to appreciate at a rapid rate despite all of the blockchain noise.

    However to reiterate I can clearly see lots of potential uses for the technology but I am just struggling to see the attraction of owning and/or speculating in the coins (with the possible exception of Bitcoin as a digital store of value). If the coins have limited/fixed supply then it would be highly deflationary (what incentive would they be to spend them?) whilst if they instead have growing supply then why the clamour to own them?

    Lol if banks implement blockchain technology that would mean the end of the road for visa and MasterCard. Blockchain is much more efficient and much cheaper.

  • Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.
    But don't the likes of Visa and MasterCard already enable people to transact seamlessly across the world without ever needing to see a foreign banknote on their travels? It's interesting as an aside that their respective share prices continue to appreciate at a rapid rate despite all of the blockchain noise.

    However to reiterate I can clearly see lots of potential uses for the technology but I am just struggling to see the attraction of owning and/or speculating in the coins (with the possible exception of Bitcoin as a digital store of value). If the coins have limited/fixed supply then it would be highly deflationary (what incentive would they be to spend them?) whilst if they instead have growing supply then why the clamour to own them?

    Lol if banks implement blockchain technology that would mean the end of the road for visa and MasterCard. Blockchain is much more efficient and much cheaper.
    Markets seem to disagree (though they're not always right of course).

    I admire your optimism in the new technology but just for a dose of realism bear in mind that it has taken e-commerce (an equally revolutionary way to transact backed by enormous investment and marketing spend) two decades to reach just 10% of global retail spending. The idea that Visa and MasterCard's massive network and reputational advantage is going to be unsurped overnight is ridiculous.

  • Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.
    But don't the likes of Visa and MasterCard already enable people to transact seamlessly across the world without ever needing to see a foreign banknote on their travels? It's interesting as an aside that their respective share prices continue to appreciate at a rapid rate despite all of the blockchain noise.


    They do, at a ridiculous cost.

    When I last used my card in Europe, my currency went CNY > $ > Euro. Costing me a fortune with shitty exchange rates and fee's, I believe a form of Crypto can make that transaction much, much cheaper.
  • Telcoin been announced as going on Kucoin... Now trading 650% roi
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  • Make that 700

  • Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.
    But don't the likes of Visa and MasterCard already enable people to transact seamlessly across the world without ever needing to see a foreign banknote on their travels? It's interesting as an aside that their respective share prices continue to appreciate at a rapid rate despite all of the blockchain noise.

    However to reiterate I can clearly see lots of potential uses for the technology but I am just struggling to see the attraction of owning and/or speculating in the coins (with the possible exception of Bitcoin as a digital store of value). If the coins have limited/fixed supply then it would be highly deflationary (what incentive would they be to spend them?) whilst if they instead have growing supply then why the clamour to own them?

    Lol if banks implement blockchain technology that would mean the end of the road for visa and MasterCard. Blockchain is much more efficient and much cheaper.
    But why would it mean the end for Visa and MasterCard?
  • LuckyReds said:


    Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.
    But don't the likes of Visa and MasterCard already enable people to transact seamlessly across the world without ever needing to see a foreign banknote on their travels? It's interesting as an aside that their respective share prices continue to appreciate at a rapid rate despite all of the blockchain noise.

    However to reiterate I can clearly see lots of potential uses for the technology but I am just struggling to see the attraction of owning and/or speculating in the coins (with the possible exception of Bitcoin as a digital store of value). If the coins have limited/fixed supply then it would be highly deflationary (what incentive would they be to spend them?) whilst if they instead have growing supply then why the clamour to own them?

    Lol if banks implement blockchain technology that would mean the end of the road for visa and MasterCard. Blockchain is much more efficient and much cheaper.
    But why would it mean the end for Visa and MasterCard?
    The argument is that currently Visa/MasterCard receive a fee from merchants to facilitate the movement of funds from the customer's bank or credit card account to theirs, but with blockchain technology the transaction would be validated by the network with no 'middle man' (and eventually seamless/instantaneous).
  • LuckyReds said:


    Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.
    But don't the likes of Visa and MasterCard already enable people to transact seamlessly across the world without ever needing to see a foreign banknote on their travels? It's interesting as an aside that their respective share prices continue to appreciate at a rapid rate despite all of the blockchain noise.

    However to reiterate I can clearly see lots of potential uses for the technology but I am just struggling to see the attraction of owning and/or speculating in the coins (with the possible exception of Bitcoin as a digital store of value). If the coins have limited/fixed supply then it would be highly deflationary (what incentive would they be to spend them?) whilst if they instead have growing supply then why the clamour to own them?

    Lol if banks implement blockchain technology that would mean the end of the road for visa and MasterCard. Blockchain is much more efficient and much cheaper.
    But why would it mean the end for Visa and MasterCard?
    The argument is that currently Visa/MasterCard receive a fee from merchants to facilitate the movement of funds from the customer's bank or credit card account to theirs, but with blockchain technology the transaction would be validated by the network with no 'middle man' (and eventually seamless/instantaneous).
    A massive oversimplification of what card processing entails, or more to the point - what the current payment mechanisms allow. It would also make Visa's decision to be recruiting blockchain engineers (With knowledge of Ripple, and experience writing Ethereum based applications) a bit bizarre.

    As far as I know, international charges aren't set by Visa or Mastercard either - but the individual banks; hence why some banks allow zero transaction fees within specific countries? Although I may well be wrong there; awkwardly I worked at a payment processor within the last 6 months too.. Oops.
  • LuckyReds said:

    LuckyReds said:


    Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.
    But don't the likes of Visa and MasterCard already enable people to transact seamlessly across the world without ever needing to see a foreign banknote on their travels? It's interesting as an aside that their respective share prices continue to appreciate at a rapid rate despite all of the blockchain noise.

    However to reiterate I can clearly see lots of potential uses for the technology but I am just struggling to see the attraction of owning and/or speculating in the coins (with the possible exception of Bitcoin as a digital store of value). If the coins have limited/fixed supply then it would be highly deflationary (what incentive would they be to spend them?) whilst if they instead have growing supply then why the clamour to own them?

    Lol if banks implement blockchain technology that would mean the end of the road for visa and MasterCard. Blockchain is much more efficient and much cheaper.
    But why would it mean the end for Visa and MasterCard?
    The argument is that currently Visa/MasterCard receive a fee from merchants to facilitate the movement of funds from the customer's bank or credit card account to theirs, but with blockchain technology the transaction would be validated by the network with no 'middle man' (and eventually seamless/instantaneous).
    A massive oversimplification of what card processing entails, or more to the point - what the current payment mechanisms allow. It would also make Visa's decision to be recruiting blockchain engineers (With knowledge of Ripple, and experience writing Ethereum based applications) a bit bizarre.

    As far as I know, international charges aren't set by Visa or Mastercard either - but the individual banks; hence why some banks allow zero transaction fees within specific countries? Although I may well be wrong there; awkwardly I worked at a payment processor within the last 6 months too.. Oops.
    So perhaps not the end for them, as of course they can adapt, but they ill have to have a complete rethink of how the do their business and more importantly, what they charge.
  • Make that 820%
  • LuckyReds said:

    LuckyReds said:


    Indeed I haven't yet been convinced by the need for these coins at all even if blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous - if one day say taxi-hailing moves from a centralized network like Uber to a decentralized blockchain, why does the driver need compensating in coins rather than pounds or dollars? None of the advantages of the blockchain (eg. privacy, cost etc.) are impacted.

    When you consider the world we live in and how it becomes more globalized, it's not hard to imagine a world without separate currencies, think how much easier it will be to travel, if you can spend crypto anywhere in the world.

    Obviously, we are a long way from that and many of these coins will fail and/or become worthless, but we will end up with something far less volatile and extremely useful for those who do business all over the world.

    I've been buying things for a long time using BitCoins and they have made my life so much easier, as I don't need to go to the bank every time I want to make a foreign purchase, I can just use my BitCoins to do that.
    But look how hard it has been to integrate the various (relatively similar) economies in the Eurozone around a single currency with uniform monetary policy etc. Has created enormous imbalances, social unrest etc.. Indeed even in the UK a single currency creates big problems (London and the South East should issue its own currency and allow the rest of the UK to depreciate against it!).

    The idea that global currencies are going away is fanciful in my view - perhaps some broadly accepted coins become commonplace but only as an instantly convertible means of exchange and not a new currency (to use my taxi example, the passenger would still see a price quoted in traditional currency even if it is taken from their 'wallet' in the form of coins in order for the network to validate the transaction).

    To use a current real world example, if my Betfair account (a company clearly threatened by blockchain) showed my balance in 'Betfair coins' as opposed to pounds then should I care so long as I can have some reasonable faith that I can convert those coins into pounds at a relatively stable and known rate (in order to spend elsewhere)? However, this is still only viable if the volatility in the coins falls to something close to current everyday (low) volatility in traditional currencies.
    I agree that having a global currency is probably a very, very long way off, but I don't having a form of currency accepted everywhere is beyond the realms of possibility.

    The USD is already the main currency used in a lot of SE Asia, despite each of these countries having their own currenies.

    I imagine I see things from a different perspective, living in China, where electronic phone payments are more common than any other country in the world. How simple would it be if I could continue to pay for everything on my phone, as I do here, using a QR code around the world, I believe Crypto can make that possible.
    But don't the likes of Visa and MasterCard already enable people to transact seamlessly across the world without ever needing to see a foreign banknote on their travels? It's interesting as an aside that their respective share prices continue to appreciate at a rapid rate despite all of the blockchain noise.

    However to reiterate I can clearly see lots of potential uses for the technology but I am just struggling to see the attraction of owning and/or speculating in the coins (with the possible exception of Bitcoin as a digital store of value). If the coins have limited/fixed supply then it would be highly deflationary (what incentive would they be to spend them?) whilst if they instead have growing supply then why the clamour to own them?

    Lol if banks implement blockchain technology that would mean the end of the road for visa and MasterCard. Blockchain is much more efficient and much cheaper.
    But why would it mean the end for Visa and MasterCard?
    The argument is that currently Visa/MasterCard receive a fee from merchants to facilitate the movement of funds from the customer's bank or credit card account to theirs, but with blockchain technology the transaction would be validated by the network with no 'middle man' (and eventually seamless/instantaneous).
    A massive oversimplification of what card processing entails, or more to the point - what the current payment mechanisms allow. It would also make Visa's decision to be recruiting blockchain engineers (With knowledge of Ripple, and experience writing Ethereum based applications) a bit bizarre.

    As far as I know, international charges aren't set by Visa or Mastercard either - but the individual banks; hence why some banks allow zero transaction fees within specific countries? Although I may well be wrong there; awkwardly I worked at a payment processor within the last 6 months too.. Oops.
    I agree, I was just putting forward the (simplistic) argument that the blockchain cheerleaders would have utilized.

    I am very happy owning shares in Visa and MasterCard.
  • Traditional currency is accepted by governments to settle tax liabilities - that gives it one obvious advantage over cryptocurrencies.

    A crypto junkie will tell you that the benefit of crypto currency is that you don't pay any tax if you don't want to.

    I'm pretty new to this game with a couple of Ethereum and a few Naga, Vechain and KuCoins. Not very much, basically a speculative dabble.

    I've looked at a few Youtube videos and done a bit of reading but what I really want is a link to an Idiots Guide To Blockchain.

    Rather than Google and have to read through a whole load of stuff I don't understand (I've tried this) does anyone out there know a good link? I do prefer to have a good understanding of what I'm investing in as, thanks to a dodgy financial advisor, I have been involved in some bad investments in the past.

    Blockchain is just an accounting ledger. Only difference is no one can create a moody version of transactions to commit fraud. If you tried to alter a receipt from £1,000 to £500, quite easy in a set of books, as long as you can also hide the matching bank transaction used to reconcile the accuracy of your books. In blockchain there is no bank receipt, just a receipt into your account and no other ledger outside the blockchain ledger has any legitimacy. If someone paid you 1,000 BTC you received 1,000 BTC end of, it's been recorded as a number in thousands of other ledgers ( "blocks") that validates all connected transactions.

    The connection between understanding blockchain technology and the value of a Bitcoin is the same as the connection between understanding the computer system that runs the FX currency exchange markets and the price of a $.

    If you are seeking to understand a rational science behind crypto currency investing you will not find it, and certainly not through understanding blockchain ledgers. No-one can provide any rational investment strategy, least of all a financial adviser. You buy if you think the price is going up and sell if you think the price is going down. In investment terms the price is 100% determined by sentiment, there is no intrinsic value, and the problem is that sentiment is 100% not predictable. What you need to know to successfully invest is what has not yet been said, but when it is, how the crowd will react to increase or reduce demand.

    In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king, if it's a glass eye you might be following him over the cliff.
  • Traditional currency is accepted by governments to settle tax liabilities - that gives it one obvious advantage over cryptocurrencies.

    A crypto junkie will tell you that the benefit of crypto currency is that you don't pay any tax if you don't want to.

    I'm pretty new to this game with a couple of Ethereum and a few Naga, Vechain and KuCoins. Not very much, basically a speculative dabble.

    I've looked at a few Youtube videos and done a bit of reading but what I really want is a link to an Idiots Guide To Blockchain.

    Rather than Google and have to read through a whole load of stuff I don't understand (I've tried this) does anyone out there know a good link? I do prefer to have a good understanding of what I'm investing in as, thanks to a dodgy financial advisor, I have been involved in some bad investments in the past.

    Blockchain is just an accounting ledger. Only difference is no one can create a moody version of transactions to commit fraud. If you tried to alter a receipt from £1,000 to £500, quite easy in a set of books, as long as you can also hide the matching bank transaction used to reconcile the accuracy of your books. In blockchain there is no bank receipt, just a receipt into your account and no other ledger outside the blockchain ledger has any legitimacy. If someone paid you 1,000 BTC you received 1,000 BTC end of, it's been recorded as a number in thousands of other ledgers ( "blocks") that validates all connected transactions.

    The connection between understanding blockchain technology and the value of a Bitcoin is the same as the connection between understanding the computer system that runs the FX currency exchange markets and the price of a $.

    If you are seeking to understand a rational science behind crypto currency investing you will not find it, and certainly not through understanding blockchain ledgers. No-one can provide any rational investment strategy, least of all a financial adviser. You buy if you think the price is going up and sell if you think the price is going down. In investment terms the price is 100% determined by sentiment, there is no intrinsic value, and the problem is that sentiment is 100% not predictable. What you need to know to successfully invest is what has not yet been said, but when it is, how the crowd will react to increase or reduce demand.

    In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king, if it's a glass eye you might be following him over the cliff.
    image
  • edited January 2018
    Great rebuttal, mate.

    Dippenhall is perfectly correct in the way he describes blockchain IMO.
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