The other thing to consider is that he hasn't, as yet, sold Konsa or Aribo, only Ricky Holmes, who apparently wanted to leave anyway. So is the action planned a little premature? (Not that I believe that he won't sell them, or anything else that isn't nailed down, given half a chance). Just a question of perception from the outside world.
One consideration is that there is only one home game within the transfer window at which any action could be taken. Indeed the fact Konsa hasn’t been sold yet is rather the point.
The other thing to consider is that he hasn't, as yet, sold Konsa or Aribo, only Ricky Holmes, who apparently wanted to leave anyway. So is the action planned a little premature? (Not that I believe that he won't sell them, or anything else that isn't nailed down, given half a chance). Just a question of perception from the outside world.
It would be a bit late to seek answers by the next home match - after the transfer window has closed. Think we might look a bit stupid to the outside world.
As I pointed out higher up this thread, Roland has “form” for asset-stripping football clubs when selling them. This protest provides an opportunity to highlight the issue before it happens to CAFC, and maybe, just maybe, stop Roland from hampering our future recovery by doing the same to us. Do you really think we will be better off ignoring the issue now, and crying over spilt milk later?
To deal with the false “spiteful individuals” narrative, 13 people representing the various elements of the coalition met last night for two hours to consider what action to take. This was a plan worked up collectively at the meeting. There was no dissent in the room.
The CARD statement was shared and agreed this morning by a wider group including about half a dozen people who couldn’t be there last night.
This is how CARD works, and has always worked.
So there would be absolutely no chance of a couple of individuals planting a seed, making suggestions and the others running with it?
If you understood the personalities of the people round the table - all of whom have put many hours of their time into CARD over the last couple of years - you’d understand how wrong that is. It’s not just about turning up at occasional protests.
The breadth of the group is the reason it isn’t prone to narrow agendas or reckless initiatives.
Well I can only take your word for it but this idea seems to have missed the mark. I don't remember so many on here questioning CARD's proposed actions so much and it hasn't even been stickied.
Can you explain what the point of this exercise is and if it's a long term play how does it fit in?
Yet it has attracted 116 likes, which is vastly more than any critical comment made about it.
For the reasons I’ve already set out, I don’t and won’t speak for others involved in CARD. It’s fair comment that people can’t be expected to judge other people who haven’t identified themselves, but I think the idea CARD is a narrow group needs to be knocked down.
It’s very unlikely that any statement would achieve universal support and of course in drawing up any plan you look at its shortcomings and weigh them up. But you might adopt it in spite of these.
My view is that a situation in which RD sells Konsa, possibly others, puts nothing back in and then continues to own the club as the season dribbles away is unacceptable. If that is the position then we may not be able to stop it but we should certainly not accept it. I don’t think Karl Robinson accepts it either.
Richard Murray chose to be Duchatelet’s spokesperson and recently has chosen to take on an active role within the club. He’s not an employee - he can’t be ordered to do so. As such I really don’t see why he shouldn’t be asked again for the statement that Robinson was pretty obviously trying to force him to make with his comments last Saturday.
Do you really think Robinson was under the impression RM planned to make a statement?
My feelings about Murray have been made clear for the last two + years. Its one of the reasons I havent warmed to the approach announced today. It;s far too late imo.
Can I ask why Card has taken so long to target the man? Or did they feel it was much better to have him on the inside pissing out?
In my view he has been a destructive influence behind the scenes since he decided to back the spivs against Varney and Kavanagh in 2012, but until Meire left he wasn’t actively involved in the running of the club.
Roland won't care about a protest of 100/200/300 people behind the West Stand at Charlton when he is several hundred miles away and certainly won't care about any adverse publicity in the English press. With regard to Richard Murray he can't provide any assurances as to what Roland will or will not do, as he holds no sway over those decisions.
To deal with the false “spiteful individuals” narrative, 13 people representing the various elements of the coalition met last night for two hours to consider what action to take. This was a plan worked up collectively at the meeting. There was no dissent in the room.
The CARD statement was shared and agreed this morning by a wider group including about half a dozen people who couldn’t be there last night.
This is how CARD works, and has always worked.
So there would be absolutely no chance of a couple of individuals planting a seed, making suggestions and the others running with it?
If you understood the personalities of the people round the table - all of whom have put many hours of their time into CARD over the last couple of years - you’d understand how wrong that is. It’s not just about turning up at occasional protests.
The breadth of the group is the reason it isn’t prone to narrow agendas or reckless initiatives.
Well I can only take your word for it but this idea seems to have missed the mark. I don't remember so many on here questioning CARD's proposed actions so much and it hasn't even been stickied.
Can you explain what the point of this exercise is and if it's a long term play how does it fit in?
Yet it has attracted 116 likes, which is vastly more than any critical comment made about it.
For the reasons I’ve already set out, I don’t and won’t speak for others involved in CARD. It’s fair comment that people can’t be expected to judge other people who haven’t identified themselves, but I think the idea CARD is a narrow group needs to be knocked down.
It’s very unlikely that any statement would achieve universal support and of course in drawing up any plan you look at its shortcomings and weigh them up. But you might adopt it in spite of these.
My view is that a situation in which RD sells Konsa, possibly others, puts nothing back in and then continues to own the club as the season dribbles away is unacceptable. If that is the position then we may not be able to stop it but we should certainly not accept it. I don’t think Karl Robinson accepts it either.
Richard Murray chose to be Duchatelet’s spokesperson and recently has chosen to take on an active role within the club. He’s not an employee - he can’t be ordered to do so. As such I really don’t see why he shouldn’t be asked again for the statement that Robinson was pretty obviously trying to force him to make with his comments last Saturday.
Do you really think Robinson was under the impression RM planned to make a statement?
My feelings about Murray have been made clear for the last two + years. Its one of the reasons I havent warmed to the approach announced today. It;s far too late imo.
Can I ask why Card has taken so long to target the man? Or did they feel it was much better to have him on the inside pissing out?
In my view he has been a destructive influence behind the scenes since he decided to back the spivs against Varney and Kavanagh in 2012, but until Meire left he wasn’t actively involved in the running of the club.
Couldn't agree more except that I still don't believe that he is actively involved in running the club.
Edit to insert missed quote: superclive98 12:35AM Roland won't care about a protest of 100/200/300 people behind the West Stand at Charlton when he is several hundred miles away and certainly won't care about any adverse publicity in the English press.
Then we must hope / try to ensure it is picked up by his local press, because he most certainly cares about what is written there. And the first step towards that aim is to get good coverage in the English media.
Then we must hope / try to ensure it is picked up by his local press, because he most certainly cares about what is written there. And the first step towards that aim is to get good coverage in the English media.
Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily follow. I wish that it were the case.
To deal with the false “spiteful individuals” narrative, 13 people representing the various elements of the coalition met last night for two hours to consider what action to take. This was a plan worked up collectively at the meeting. There was no dissent in the room.
The CARD statement was shared and agreed this morning by a wider group including about half a dozen people who couldn’t be there last night.
This is how CARD works, and has always worked.
So there would be absolutely no chance of a couple of individuals planting a seed, making suggestions and the others running with it?
If you understood the personalities of the people round the table - all of whom have put many hours of their time into CARD over the last couple of years - you’d understand how wrong that is. It’s not just about turning up at occasional protests.
The breadth of the group is the reason it isn’t prone to narrow agendas or reckless initiatives.
Well I can only take your word for it but this idea seems to have missed the mark. I don't remember so many on here questioning CARD's proposed actions so much and it hasn't even been stickied.
Can you explain what the point of this exercise is and if it's a long term play how does it fit in?
Yet it has attracted 116 likes, which is vastly more than any critical comment made about it.
For the reasons I’ve already set out, I don’t and won’t speak for others involved in CARD. It’s fair comment that people can’t be expected to judge other people who haven’t identified themselves, but I think the idea CARD is a narrow group needs to be knocked down.
It’s very unlikely that any statement would achieve universal support and of course in drawing up any plan you look at its shortcomings and weigh them up. But you might adopt it in spite of these.
My view is that a situation in which RD sells Konsa, possibly others, puts nothing back in and then continues to own the club as the season dribbles away is unacceptable. If that is the position then we may not be able to stop it but we should certainly not accept it. I don’t think Karl Robinson accepts it either.
Richard Murray chose to be Duchatelet’s spokesperson and recently has chosen to take on an active role within the club. He’s not an employee - he can’t be ordered to do so. As such I really don’t see why he shouldn’t be asked again for the statement that Robinson was pretty obviously trying to force him to make with his comments last Saturday.
Do you really think Robinson was under the impression RM planned to make a statement?
I stated that I don't remember so many on here not in full support. Go back to other initiatives and how many negative comments were there from long term posters and going by your metric of success how many likes did it get?
Regardless, you haven't really answered my questions though. You'd do well as a politician.
And just to add CARD haven't asked Murray for a statement, they've demanded guarantees. The two are quite different.
One guarantee about Konsa. One timeline and clarity about what’s possible and not possible.
I don’t dispute there are more people expressing different views, but so what? If CARD had decided to say or do nothing and events unfold as seem likely there would be plenty who would disagree with that too. Sometimes there isn’t a right answer.
Broadly speaking, you have a large group of supportive people, some that say it’s “pointless” because Murray’s a discredited liar, some that say it’s in some way “unfair” on him and/or won’t get a response and another that wants to argue it’s in some way damaging of itself.
They are all legitimate views, but CARD has to make decisions. Nothing would have been right for all those groups.
To deal with the false “spiteful individuals” narrative, 13 people representing the various elements of the coalition met last night for two hours to consider what action to take. This was a plan worked up collectively at the meeting. There was no dissent in the room.
The CARD statement was shared and agreed this morning by a wider group including about half a dozen people who couldn’t be there last night.
This is how CARD works, and has always worked.
So there would be absolutely no chance of a couple of individuals planting a seed, making suggestions and the others running with it?
If you understood the personalities of the people round the table - all of whom have put many hours of their time into CARD over the last couple of years - you’d understand how wrong that is. It’s not just about turning up at occasional protests.
The breadth of the group is the reason it isn’t prone to narrow agendas or reckless initiatives.
Well I can only take your word for it but this idea seems to have missed the mark. I don't remember so many on here questioning CARD's proposed actions so much and it hasn't even been stickied.
Can you explain what the point of this exercise is and if it's a long term play how does it fit in?
Yet it has attracted 116 likes, which is vastly more than any critical comment made about it.
For the reasons I’ve already set out, I don’t and won’t speak for others involved in CARD. It’s fair comment that people can’t be expected to judge other people who haven’t identified themselves, but I think the idea CARD is a narrow group needs to be knocked down.
It’s very unlikely that any statement would achieve universal support and of course in drawing up any plan you look at its shortcomings and weigh them up. But you might adopt it in spite of these.
My view is that a situation in which RD sells Konsa, possibly others, puts nothing back in and then continues to own the club as the season dribbles away is unacceptable. If that is the position then we may not be able to stop it but we should certainly not accept it. I don’t think Karl Robinson accepts it either.
Richard Murray chose to be Duchatelet’s spokesperson and recently has chosen to take on an active role within the club. He’s not an employee - he can’t be ordered to do so. As such I really don’t see why he shouldn’t be asked again for the statement that Robinson was pretty obviously trying to force him to make with his comments last Saturday.
Do you really think Robinson was under the impression RM planned to make a statement?
My feelings about Murray have been made clear for the last two + years. Its one of the reasons I havent warmed to the approach announced today. It;s far too late imo.
Can I ask why Card has taken so long to target the man? Or did they feel it was much better to have him on the inside pissing out?
In my view he has been a destructive influence behind the scenes since he decided to back the spivs against Varney and Kavanagh in 2012, but until Meire left he wasn’t actively involved in the running of the club.
That's no excuse when you consider the kind of things he said when they ( Belgians) arrived and the way he has shamelessly defended them ever since.
To deal with the false “spiteful individuals” narrative, 13 people representing the various elements of the coalition met last night for two hours to consider what action to take. This was a plan worked up collectively at the meeting. There was no dissent in the room.
The CARD statement was shared and agreed this morning by a wider group including about half a dozen people who couldn’t be there last night.
This is how CARD works, and has always worked.
So there would be absolutely no chance of a couple of individuals planting a seed, making suggestions and the others running with it?
If you understood the personalities of the people round the table - all of whom have put many hours of their time into CARD over the last couple of years - you’d understand how wrong that is. It’s not just about turning up at occasional protests.
The breadth of the group is the reason it isn’t prone to narrow agendas or reckless initiatives.
Well I can only take your word for it but this idea seems to have missed the mark. I don't remember so many on here questioning CARD's proposed actions so much and it hasn't even been stickied.
Can you explain what the point of this exercise is and if it's a long term play how does it fit in?
Yet it has attracted 116 likes, which is vastly more than any critical comment made about it.
For the reasons I’ve already set out, I don’t and won’t speak for others involved in CARD. It’s fair comment that people can’t be expected to judge other people who haven’t identified themselves, but I think the idea CARD is a narrow group needs to be knocked down.
It’s very unlikely that any statement would achieve universal support and of course in drawing up any plan you look at its shortcomings and weigh them up. But you might adopt it in spite of these.
My view is that a situation in which RD sells Konsa, possibly others, puts nothing back in and then continues to own the club as the season dribbles away is unacceptable. If that is the position then we may not be able to stop it but we should certainly not accept it. I don’t think Karl Robinson accepts it either.
Richard Murray chose to be Duchatelet’s spokesperson and recently has chosen to take on an active role within the club. He’s not an employee - he can’t be ordered to do so. As such I really don’t see why he shouldn’t be asked again for the statement that Robinson was pretty obviously trying to force him to make with his comments last Saturday.
Do you really think Robinson was under the impression RM planned to make a statement?
My feelings about Murray have been made clear for the last two + years. Its one of the reasons I havent warmed to the approach announced today. It;s far too late imo.
Can I ask why Card has taken so long to target the man? Or did they feel it was much better to have him on the inside pissing out?
In my view he has been a destructive influence behind the scenes since he decided to back the spivs against Varney and Kavanagh in 2012, but until Meire left he wasn’t actively involved in the running of the club.
That's no excuse when you consider the kind of things he said when they ( Belgians) arrived and the way he has shamelessly defended them ever since.
It’s a question of priorities, though - and in RM’s case he does have a positive back story to lean on, which RD and KM don’t. I’ve actually written quite a lot about this in recent years.
So we have potential buyers of the club at the game on Saturday and then CARD come along with a pointless exercise as i think it is fair to say that not one person from the club will come out and make a statement, all what will happen is make a potential buyer think twice, surely it would be better to get behind the team, create an atmosphere and potential buyers thinking we could have something good here. Imagine selling a house would you let potential buyers view your property when the noisy neighbours are in or out. No logic whatsoever and will get no thanks from the management team.
Maybe just maybe it will force someone from the club apart from Robinson to make a statement about what's going on, even if it's before Saturday, as i'm sure they (club) wouldn't like a scene.
Do you really think that they will give you answers with people outside shouting. The only thing that will happen is that you prove that the club is currently toxic and if i was a buyer wouldn't touch it with a ten foot barge pole. Flip it to have a great atmosphere in the ground, and buyers would see the club as a good investment rather than anarchy in the car park wearing black and white.
But there won't be a great atmosphere in the ground. It's dying in there. Crowds are dwindling and that will only accelerate as Duchatelet sells the talent and refuses to sanction decent replacements. The whole club is irretrievably toxic under Duchatelet and he knows it, which is partly why he's looking for the exit route. A buyer will see the potential, including from the fans, and base a buying decision on that.
The reality is certain people have let it die by arranging boycotts and protests, it comes as no consequence that the club has been put up for sale after there has been no demonstrations. If, just if there were buyers on Saturday and they pulled out due to the protests whom would CARD blame then.?
This is serious? Or are you kidding....?
It was only but a few months ago we were being told that there was to be a takeover within the week, nothing come of it, ask yourself a question would you buy a club with a toxic crowd at the front door ?
The key is to understanding it. It will hardly be a surprise to them, unless you think the protests have managed to sneak under the radar of publicity. Frankly you seem to be arguing for the sake of it mate. If protests were going to drive buyers away, noone would be at the table, would they.
No one is arguing, i think its called being objective, we cant all be sheep, and IMO i cannot see the point of protesting when A You are not going to get any answers and B There could be potential buyers there on Saturday. If anything it does more harm than good, however certain people know best and the rest don't. It happens the same is happening at Newcastle, Ashely is not buying players as he trying to sell the club, and once again as stated in a previous post whilst under DD you cannot disclose any information to a third party, be it if you are buying a football club or another business. It is only when DD has been done, and then that is when the real negotiations will commence in terms of the price.
Basic logic is escaping you here though. If the announcement of a peaceful rally is going to scare these buyers away, why come to the table at all given the background? It's just nonsense to think the protests are harming the prospect of a sale - without them, do you think we'd be here, really?
Airman's right. CARD isn't the cult of Rick. It's a coalition of groups sharing an objective. That doesn't mean all the groups agree on how to achieve it.
Last night's meeting was a perfect example of this. Everyone at the meeting had something valuable to say and said it. What's been learned through Card's successes, and especially the mistakes, is the value of hearing the various differing voices, so a consensus can be reached having explored all aspects. Many ideas are thrown out as a result, many hit the objective of keeping the campaign in consciousness.
Some are more hostile towards Richard Murray than others - and it would be wise not to jump to conclusions on the various personalities involved - and it's worth saying that the consensus last night was that we wouldn't attack Richard Murray. What is happening is that he's being called to account, for the role he himself proclaimed was his, the one he enjoys the most.
He may have nothing to say, but how he responds will say a lot about him and hopefully exert some influence. Takeover or not there's still the business of football going on that can't be neglected. There's no one else to hear from, unless you think the Pie Man will be stepping up.
It's one thing to choose not to replace your CEO or FD - but to sell players from an already thin squad in the middle of a huge injury crisis is as disrespectful to the manager, players and supporters as it is reckless. Especially when despite all that we sit 6th with a real chance of being in the mix at the end of the season.
Skipped reading most of this thread but I definitely feel this is the right approach from CARD and I've not always agreed with how they've done things in the past but on this occasion I absolutely agree.
My personal fear is Holmes and Konsa will both be sold off to fund the club for the rest of the season meaning RD won't have to inject any more cash into the club from his pocket. In the meantime while he's not dipping into his pocket any more he can drag a sale of the club out knowing it's not costing him any more of his own cash, even if his own valuation of the club decreases in the meantime. Lets say Holmes and Konsa go for a combined £4.5m then it's £4.5m or so he can reduce his asking price by which might get us closer to a successful bid. But then where does it stop, you could chuck in JFC, Kashi, Aribo and anybody else with a price tag to sell.
This alone is enough to have RM called out and provide some reassurances that a firesale / asset stripping isn't taking place which helps RD lower the valuation of the club without taking a haircut hence getting closer to potential bids on the table (not ITK just speculating)
Ask yourself this , would you want Murray involved at Charlton with the future ownership ? The way he reacts to this may change your view but he’s been there all along while Rome has been burning , he’s hardly covered himself in glory . I think this move by CARD gives the snake the chance to come out from under the stone and seek (a small amount of) forgiveness and call Roland Out for the joke that he is . Will he take the bait or continue to slime his way along , I have no idea but this is a good opportunity for him to potentially change the views and his (un)popularity stakes amongst Charlton fans, or prove he doesn’t give a shit about people’s opinions of himself . Let’s not forget he didn’t give a flying about us all losing our shares for nowt because he’d lost considerably more dough than yow!
Just read through the whole of this thread and have come to the conclusion that as is nearly always the case, CARD have announced a well thought through protest that puts Murray/the club on the spot. Trouble for me is that it comes about a month too late. The announcement of a protest before the transfer window began would have drawn even more criticism and dissent, and would likely have been less popular on the day. However, knowing the history of Duchatelet with football clubs, going back way before he got his claws into Charlton, this transfer window outcome was inevitable unless some fool coughed up his ridiculous asking price. In my view, these (or similar) questions and requests for guarantees should have been asked of the owner and CEO before Christmas, not of a doddery old twat with no authority a week or so before the window ends! I think many of us perhaps felt a sense of complacency that the sale would go through in good time, the squad would be replenished in January and we would at least be contesting the play-offs. The opportunity was there on the back of the ROT election campaign announcement for further pressure to be exerted, for assurances to be sought from those in a real position of power, not a cardboard cut-out left to face the crowd! I think the protest movement as a whole needs to up the ante, here as well as in Belgium, even if it means making what might be seen initially as unpopular decisions. We cut Roland some slack thinking he would be gone by now and look at what he is currently doing to our club, eviscerating it before our eyes! Let's not be fooled again. We need to continually ramp up the pressure any way we can until Duchatelet has gone.
I've got so flippin' wound up typing this that I won't be able to sleep now and I need to be up for work in 5 hours!!
Murray should’ve been as much of cards target in the last two yrs as RD and KM but he wasn’t
He tells nothing but lies to different sections of the fan base
And has done for numerous years
When he wanted to sell us to that crook sainsbury was the time to get rid
I take it from this action you feel we are not being sold imminently AB and that we are a long way way from anything happening otherwise you wouldn’t feel compelled to do this on sat
I still think it’s pointless and futile and this protest is more about egos than anything else which is a shame because it’s the first one I have thought that to be the case
Murray should’ve been as much of cards target in the last two yrs as RD and KM but he wasn’t
He tells nothing but lies to different sections of the fan base
And has done for numerous years
When he wanted to sell us to that crook sainsbury was the time to get rid
I take it from this action you feel we are not being sold imminently AB and that we are a long way way from anything happening otherwise you wouldn’t feel compelled to do this on sat
I still think it’s pointless and futile and this protest is more about egos than anything else which is a shame because it’s the first one I have thought that to be the case
I understand exactly where you are coming from D.
However, the fans have given the ownership and senior management of the Club a hell of a lot of time to communicate clearly what has been going on, without going in to minute detail and we have been treated with nothing but contempt.
Yet again.
"KR is turning it around", "RD is giving us what we wanted - English manager and coaches", "Let's see what happens in the transfer window" had been the mantra of many. And being the fair minded Charlton fans that we are, it was reasonable to withhold any protests and to wait and see.
Well the patience ran out for ROT before Christmas and the sale of Holmes and the one line statement from Murray, made it perfectly clear what the owners intention is for the rest of the transfer window and in my opinion for the rest of the season, whilst he tries to maximise his return of four years of mistake after mistake.
He is not going to suffer if the sale of our stars funds the running of the Club until August. But the helm has been taken on voluntarily by Murray. He has the choice not to work for the man. He is now in a position and has the ability to hasten the end game.
It appears that in his first two weeks in charge, he has done nothing but tow the party line. Now is the time to put some pressure on him - particularly as Saturday is the last home game in the transfer window.
He has the opportunity now to publically respond to a strong yet totally justifiable set of questions from the fans. He is drinking at the last chance saloon.
One thing for sure is, if a clear statement of intent isn't made, then both him, Duchatalet as well their lackeys will be targeted for more direct action and intense embarrassment over the coming months.
To deal with the false “spiteful individuals” narrative, 13 people representing the various elements of the coalition met last night for two hours to consider what action to take. This was a plan worked up collectively at the meeting. There was no dissent in the room.
The CARD statement was shared and agreed this morning by a wider group including about half a dozen people who couldn’t be there last night.
This is how CARD works, and has always worked.
So there would be absolutely no chance of a couple of individuals planting a seed, making suggestions and the others running with it?
If you understood the personalities of the people round the table - all of whom have put many hours of their time into CARD over the last couple of years - you’d understand how wrong that is. It’s not just about turning up at occasional protests.
The breadth of the group is the reason it isn’t prone to narrow agendas or reckless initiatives.
Well I can only take your word for it but this idea seems to have missed the mark. I don't remember so many on here questioning CARD's proposed actions so much and it hasn't even been stickied.
Can you explain what the point of this exercise is and if it's a long term play how does it fit in?
Yet it has attracted 116 likes, which is vastly more than any critical comment made about it.
For the reasons I’ve already set out, I don’t and won’t speak for others involved in CARD. It’s fair comment that people can’t be expected to judge other people who haven’t identified themselves, but I think the idea CARD is a narrow group needs to be knocked down.
It’s very unlikely that any statement would achieve universal support and of course in drawing up any plan you look at its shortcomings and weigh them up. But you might adopt it in spite of these.
My view is that a situation in which RD sells Konsa, possibly others, puts nothing back in and then continues to own the club as the season dribbles away is unacceptable. If that is the position then we may not be able to stop it but we should certainly not accept it. I don’t think Karl Robinson accepts it either.
Richard Murray chose to be Duchatelet’s spokesperson and recently has chosen to take on an active role within the club. He’s not an employee - he can’t be ordered to do so. As such I really don’t see why he shouldn’t be asked again for the statement that Robinson was pretty obviously trying to force him to make with his comments last Saturday.
Do you really think Robinson was under the impression RM planned to make a statement?
I stated that I don't remember so many on here not in full support. Go back to other initiatives and how many negative comments were there from long term posters and going by your metric of success how many likes did it get?
Regardless, you haven't really answered my questions though. You'd do well as a politician.
And just to add CARD haven't asked Murray for a statement, they've demanded guarantees. The two are quite different.
As a matter of interest is there a point at which you would be happy to add your voice to any protest? If Konsa is sold? If Aribo joins him? Bauer? Clarke? Becuase that isn't outside the realms of possibility. Or is it ok to sit back and watch it happen without comment? And as for some people saying that we should acquiesce in case we put off prospective owners. Well if any prospective owners aren't well intentioned, then I hope the fact that Charlton fans don't take it lying down does put them off.
This protest was never going to be as do or die as previous protests held when Duchatelet was refusing to budge over many issues including his ownership, because there's a sense of relief that the club is finally up for sale. But what harm could it do to let the world know that some things are still happening that don't sit well with us.
Murray should’ve been as much of cards target in the last two yrs as RD and KM but he wasn’t
He tells nothing but lies to different sections of the fan base
And has done for numerous years
When he wanted to sell us to that crook sainsbury was the time to get rid
I take it from this action you feel we are not being sold imminently AB and that we are a long way way from anything happening otherwise you wouldn’t feel compelled to do this on sat
I still think it’s pointless and futile and this protest is more about egos than anything else which is a shame because it’s the first one I have thought that to be the case
Murray has been pretty irrelevant over the last couple of years though, and wasn't he undergoing cancer treatment for some of it?
During that time Katrien's regular faux pas made her a natural target,and she at least carried the executive name. It's no witch hunt, just rolling with the circumstances.
To deal with the false “spiteful individuals” narrative, 13 people representing the various elements of the coalition met last night for two hours to consider what action to take. This was a plan worked up collectively at the meeting. There was no dissent in the room.
The CARD statement was shared and agreed this morning by a wider group including about half a dozen people who couldn’t be there last night.
This is how CARD works, and has always worked.
So there would be absolutely no chance of a couple of individuals planting a seed, making suggestions and the others running with it?
If you understood the personalities of the people round the table - all of whom have put many hours of their time into CARD over the last couple of years - you’d understand how wrong that is. It’s not just about turning up at occasional protests.
The breadth of the group is the reason it isn’t prone to narrow agendas or reckless initiatives.
I do not believe for one second that Murray will, even as ‘acting CEO’ be in a position to give any assurances whatsoever.
I do not think he will come outside and address the fans, however many there are.
That does not necessarily make the protest pointless.
Despite the CARD statement setting out the ‘aim’ of the protest, ambitions which I believe are deliberately set to fail, it will remind Murray that there is a proportion of the fan base that no longer supports his continued involvement with the club and others that there still remains a fan base at Charlton worth interacting with.
I don’t think it will affect the takeover discussions much, don’t think it will even dissuade Murray from seeking any role he has in mind going forwards.
To deal with the false “spiteful individuals” narrative, 13 people representing the various elements of the coalition met last night for two hours to consider what action to take. This was a plan worked up collectively at the meeting. There was no dissent in the room.
The CARD statement was shared and agreed this morning by a wider group including about half a dozen people who couldn’t be there last night.
This is how CARD works, and has always worked.
So there would be absolutely no chance of a couple of individuals planting a seed, making suggestions and the others running with it?
If you understood the personalities of the people round the table - all of whom have put many hours of their time into CARD over the last couple of years - you’d understand how wrong that is. It’s not just about turning up at occasional protests.
The breadth of the group is the reason it isn’t prone to narrow agendas or reckless initiatives.
Well I can only take your word for it but this idea seems to have missed the mark. I don't remember so many on here questioning CARD's proposed actions so much and it hasn't even been stickied.
Can you explain what the point of this exercise is and if it's a long term play how does it fit in?
Yet it has attracted 116 likes, which is vastly more than any critical comment made about it.
For the reasons I’ve already set out, I don’t and won’t speak for others involved in CARD. It’s fair comment that people can’t be expected to judge other people who haven’t identified themselves, but I think the idea CARD is a narrow group needs to be knocked down.
It’s very unlikely that any statement would achieve universal support and of course in drawing up any plan you look at its shortcomings and weigh them up. But you might adopt it in spite of these.
My view is that a situation in which RD sells Konsa, possibly others, puts nothing back in and then continues to own the club as the season dribbles away is unacceptable. If that is the position then we may not be able to stop it but we should certainly not accept it. I don’t think Karl Robinson accepts it either.
Richard Murray chose to be Duchatelet’s spokesperson and recently has chosen to take on an active role within the club. He’s not an employee - he can’t be ordered to do so. As such I really don’t see why he shouldn’t be asked again for the statement that Robinson was pretty obviously trying to force him to make with his comments last Saturday.
Do you really think Robinson was under the impression RM planned to make a statement?
My feelings about Murray have been made clear for the last two + years. Its one of the reasons I havent warmed to the approach announced today. It;s far too late imo.
Can I ask why Card has taken so long to target the man? Or did they feel it was much better to have him on the inside pissing out?
In my view he has been a destructive influence behind the scenes since he decided to back the spivs against Varney and Kavanagh in 2012, but until Meire left he wasn’t actively involved in the running of the club.
That's no excuse when you consider the kind of things he said when they ( Belgians) arrived and the way he has shamelessly defended them ever since.
tbf I think lots of people said positive things about the Belgians when they arrived.
To deal with the false “spiteful individuals” narrative, 13 people representing the various elements of the coalition met last night for two hours to consider what action to take. This was a plan worked up collectively at the meeting. There was no dissent in the room.
The CARD statement was shared and agreed this morning by a wider group including about half a dozen people who couldn’t be there last night.
This is how CARD works, and has always worked.
So there would be absolutely no chance of a couple of individuals planting a seed, making suggestions and the others running with it?
If you understood the personalities of the people round the table - all of whom have put many hours of their time into CARD over the last couple of years - you’d understand how wrong that is. It’s not just about turning up at occasional protests.
The breadth of the group is the reason it isn’t prone to narrow agendas or reckless initiatives.
Well I can only take your word for it but this idea seems to have missed the mark. I don't remember so many on here questioning CARD's proposed actions so much and it hasn't even been stickied.
Can you explain what the point of this exercise is and if it's a long term play how does it fit in?
Yet it has attracted 116 likes, which is vastly more than any critical comment made about it.
For the reasons I’ve already set out, I don’t and won’t speak for others involved in CARD. It’s fair comment that people can’t be expected to judge other people who haven’t identified themselves, but I think the idea CARD is a narrow group needs to be knocked down.
It’s very unlikely that any statement would achieve universal support and of course in drawing up any plan you look at its shortcomings and weigh them up. But you might adopt it in spite of these.
My view is that a situation in which RD sells Konsa, possibly others, puts nothing back in and then continues to own the club as the season dribbles away is unacceptable. If that is the position then we may not be able to stop it but we should certainly not accept it. I don’t think Karl Robinson accepts it either.
Richard Murray chose to be Duchatelet’s spokesperson and recently has chosen to take on an active role within the club. He’s not an employee - he can’t be ordered to do so. As such I really don’t see why he shouldn’t be asked again for the statement that Robinson was pretty obviously trying to force him to make with his comments last Saturday.
Do you really think Robinson was under the impression RM planned to make a statement?
My feelings about Murray have been made clear for the last two + years. Its one of the reasons I havent warmed to the approach announced today. It;s far too late imo.
Can I ask why Card has taken so long to target the man? Or did they feel it was much better to have him on the inside pissing out?
In my view he has been a destructive influence behind the scenes since he decided to back the spivs against Varney and Kavanagh in 2012, but until Meire left he wasn’t actively involved in the running of the club.
That's no excuse when you consider the kind of things he said when they ( Belgians) arrived and the way he has shamelessly defended them ever since.
tbf I think lots of people said positive things about the Belgians when they arrived.
Thats not what I mean. Murray couldn't wait to announce at the start of this farce how Roland was our saviour, we wouldn't need to sell our kids and that Murray himself was going to be the conduit between the ownership and the fans. Not one of those statements could have been further from the truth.
Haven't read it all (semi - PWR!) so it's probably been covered.
What if Murray is hamstrung by Duchatelet though? If that buffoon of an owner has told Murray not to address the fans, he won't!! Murray has already shown how subservient he is to the regime that he's now part of. He's hardly going to go against the wishes of the one who adores Murray's sycophancy.
Comments
With regard to Richard Murray he can't provide any assurances as to what Roland will or will not do, as he holds no sway over those decisions.
superclive98 12:35AM
Roland won't care about a protest of 100/200/300 people behind the West Stand at Charlton when he is several hundred miles away and certainly won't care about any adverse publicity in the English press.
Then we must hope / try to ensure it is picked up by his local press, because he most certainly cares about what is written there. And the first step towards that aim is to get good coverage in the English media.
I don’t dispute there are more people expressing different views, but so what? If CARD had decided to say or do nothing and events unfold as seem likely there would be plenty who would disagree with that too. Sometimes there isn’t a right answer.
Broadly speaking, you have a large group of supportive people, some that say it’s “pointless” because Murray’s a discredited liar, some that say it’s in some way “unfair” on him and/or won’t get a response and another that wants to argue it’s in some way damaging of itself.
They are all legitimate views, but CARD has to make decisions. Nothing would have been right for all those groups.
Last night's meeting was a perfect example of this. Everyone at the meeting had something valuable to say and said it. What's been learned through Card's successes, and especially the mistakes, is the value of hearing the various differing voices, so a consensus can be reached having explored all aspects. Many ideas are thrown out as a result, many hit the objective of keeping the campaign in consciousness.
Some are more hostile towards Richard Murray than others - and it would be wise not to jump to conclusions on the various personalities involved - and it's worth saying that the consensus last night was that we wouldn't attack Richard Murray. What is happening is that he's being called to account, for the role he himself proclaimed was his, the one he enjoys the most.
He may have nothing to say, but how he responds will say a lot about him and hopefully exert some influence. Takeover or not there's still the business of football going on that can't be neglected. There's no one else to hear from, unless you think the Pie Man will be stepping up.
It's one thing to choose not to replace your CEO or FD - but to sell players from an already thin squad in the middle of a huge injury crisis is as disrespectful to the manager, players and supporters as it is reckless. Especially when despite all that we sit 6th with a real chance of being in the mix at the end of the season.
My personal fear is Holmes and Konsa will both be sold off to fund the club for the rest of the season meaning RD won't have to inject any more cash into the club from his pocket. In the meantime while he's not dipping into his pocket any more he can drag a sale of the club out knowing it's not costing him any more of his own cash, even if his own valuation of the club decreases in the meantime. Lets say Holmes and Konsa go for a combined £4.5m then it's £4.5m or so he can reduce his asking price by which might get us closer to a successful bid. But then where does it stop, you could chuck in JFC, Kashi, Aribo and anybody else with a price tag to sell.
This alone is enough to have RM called out and provide some reassurances that a firesale / asset stripping isn't taking place which helps RD lower the valuation of the club without taking a haircut hence getting closer to potential bids on the table (not ITK just speculating)
The way he reacts to this may change your view but he’s been there all along while Rome has been burning , he’s hardly covered himself in glory .
I think this move by CARD gives the snake the chance to come out from under the stone and seek (a small amount of) forgiveness and call Roland Out for the joke that he is .
Will he take the bait or continue to slime his way along , I have no idea but this is a good opportunity for him to potentially change the views and his (un)popularity stakes amongst Charlton fans, or prove he doesn’t give a shit about people’s opinions of himself .
Let’s not forget he didn’t give a flying about us all losing our shares for nowt because he’d lost considerably more dough than yow!
The announcement of a protest before the transfer window began would have drawn even more criticism and dissent, and would likely have been less popular on the day. However, knowing the history of Duchatelet with football clubs, going back way before he got his claws into Charlton, this transfer window outcome was inevitable unless some fool coughed up his ridiculous asking price. In my view, these (or similar) questions and requests for guarantees should have been asked of the owner and CEO before Christmas, not of a doddery old twat with no authority a week or so before the window ends!
I think many of us perhaps felt a sense of complacency that the sale would go through in good time, the squad would be replenished in January and we would at least be contesting the play-offs. The opportunity was there on the back of the ROT election campaign announcement for further pressure to be exerted, for assurances to be sought from those in a real position of power, not a cardboard cut-out left to face the crowd!
I think the protest movement as a whole needs to up the ante, here as well as in Belgium, even if it means making what might be seen initially as unpopular decisions. We cut Roland some slack thinking he would be gone by now and look at what he is currently doing to our club, eviscerating it before our eyes!
Let's not be fooled again. We need to continually ramp up the pressure any way we can until Duchatelet has gone.
I've got so flippin' wound up typing this that I won't be able to sleep now and I need to be up for work in 5 hours!!
He tells nothing but lies to different sections of the fan base
And has done for numerous years
When he wanted to sell us to that crook sainsbury was the time to get rid
I take it from this action you feel we are not being sold imminently AB and that we are a long way way from anything happening otherwise you wouldn’t feel compelled to do this on sat
I still think it’s pointless and futile and this protest is more about egos than anything else which is a shame because it’s the first one I have thought that to be the case
However, the fans have given the ownership and senior management of the Club a hell of a lot of time to communicate clearly what has been going on, without going in to minute detail and we have been treated with nothing but contempt.
Yet again.
"KR is turning it around", "RD is giving us what we wanted - English manager and coaches", "Let's see what happens in the transfer window" had been the mantra of many. And being the fair minded Charlton fans that we are, it was reasonable to withhold any protests and to wait and see.
Well the patience ran out for ROT before Christmas and the sale of Holmes and the one line statement from Murray, made it perfectly clear what the owners intention is for the rest of the transfer window and in my opinion for the rest of the season, whilst he tries to maximise his return of four years of mistake after mistake.
He is not going to suffer if the sale of our stars funds the running of the Club until August. But the helm has been taken on voluntarily by Murray. He has the choice not to work for the man. He is now in a position and has the ability to hasten the end game.
It appears that in his first two weeks in charge, he has done nothing but tow the party line. Now is the time to put some pressure on him - particularly as Saturday is the last home game in the transfer window.
He has the opportunity now to publically respond to a strong yet totally justifiable set of questions from the fans. He is drinking at the last chance saloon.
One thing for sure is, if a clear statement of intent isn't made, then both him, Duchatalet as well their lackeys will be targeted for more direct action and intense embarrassment over the coming months.
RD bought the wrong Club.
#notapennymore
Or is it ok to sit back and watch it happen without comment?
And as for some people saying that we should acquiesce in case we put off prospective owners. Well if any prospective owners aren't well intentioned, then I hope the fact that Charlton fans don't take it lying down does put them off.
This protest was never going to be as do or die as previous protests held when Duchatelet was refusing to budge over many issues including his ownership, because there's a sense of relief that the club is finally up for sale. But what harm could it do to let the world know that some things are still happening that don't sit well with us.
During that time Katrien's regular faux pas made her a natural target,and she at least carried the executive name. It's no witch hunt, just rolling with the circumstances.
I do not think he will come outside and address the fans, however many there are.
That does not necessarily make the protest pointless.
Despite the CARD statement setting out the ‘aim’ of the protest, ambitions which I believe are deliberately set to fail, it will remind Murray that there is a proportion of the fan base that no longer supports his continued involvement with the club and others that there still remains a fan base at Charlton worth interacting with.
I don’t think it will affect the takeover discussions much, don’t think it will even dissuade Murray from seeking any role he has in mind going forwards.
Limited use, probably better than nothing.
Murray couldn't wait to announce at the start of this farce how Roland was our saviour, we wouldn't need to sell our kids and that Murray himself was going to be the conduit between the ownership and the fans.
Not one of those statements could have been further from the truth.
What if Murray is hamstrung by Duchatelet though? If that buffoon of an owner has told Murray not to address the fans, he won't!! Murray has already shown how subservient he is to the regime that he's now part of. He's hardly going to go against the wishes of the one who adores Murray's sycophancy.