"He said certain things of a racist nature and I took it badly. There are things that you can let pass, but I’m a man and a man of colour. We are in 2018 and there are things we don’t let pass anymore."
He said something in reference to my colour. You see very clearly he pinched his nose in relation to what he said. I asked him to repeat it. I think at the moment he repeated it he realised what he had said."
“He wanted to limit the damage. I said no. It would be incomprehensible coming from a fan, but from a footballer who earns a very good living and is there to entertain it should be punished.”
Brighton submit Gaëtan Bong’s claim to FA that Jay Rodriguez said “you’re black and you stink.”
Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks. I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon. It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks. I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon. It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
It was Barkley, and The Sun had previously posted a story on the man's heritage, so at least one researcher there knew. The Sun cut Kelvin loose, and acted like they basically hadn't read his story, as though it skipped the sub-editing process.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to a gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
It was Barkley, and The Sun had previously posted a story on the man's heritage, so at least one researcher there knew. The Sun cut Kelvin loose, and acted like they basically hadn't read his story, as though it skipped the sub-editing process.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.
Wouldn’t worry, just wait for a ‘Jay Rodriguez wants a hard brexit’ type comment and we can close the thread.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
No, no it's not. It's comparing an expression. Are we now saying that comparing an expression is tantamount to racism?
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.
Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks. I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon. It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
You're probably right. Rodriguez, if he was American, would probably have voted for Trump. I came to this conclusion due to the concrete link you mention between Trumps comment and Rodriguez's common reaction when two people are in each other's faces. I mean it's the first thing that any balanced individual would, and should, think of when seeing that on a British football field. That and the fact that he exhibits all the traits of white supremacy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were related.
You can mock me, although I admitted that I am probably over wired on this, and made a connection I shouldn't have. You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.
Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks. I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon. It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
No, no it's not. It's comparing an expression. Are we now saying that comparing an expression is tantamount to racism?
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.
No, I'm saying comparing part of x to part of y, is the same as comparing x to y. In this case the comparison was a stupid one to make and opened him up to accusations of racism that very simple research would have avoided, unless you think the comparison to a gorilla is the only possible way of describing a vacant stare?
Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks. I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon. It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
You're probably right. Rodriguez, if he was American, would probably have voted for Trump. I came to this conclusion due to the concrete link you mention between Trumps comment and Rodriguez's common reaction when two people are in each other's faces. I mean it's the first thing that any balanced individual would, and should, think of when seeing that on a British football field. That and the fact that he exhibits all the traits of white supremacy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were related.
You can mock me, although I admitted that I am probably over wired on this, and made a connection I shouldn't have. You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.
You took my 'concrete' reference as me being serious? I think you were/are the only person to do so. Misrepresentation, anyone?
I just tried to point out the ludricrous nature of the reasoning you gave for coming to your conclusion.
Re the video you mention, I think most people have represented that old woman fairly correctly. If someone wants to then claim it's the fault of MFC then they'd be wrong. Much in the same way that the racist train chanters aren't representative of CAFC.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
No, no it's not. It's comparing an expression. Are we now saying that comparing an expression is tantamount to racism?
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.
unless you think the comparison to a gorilla is the only possible way of describing a vacant stare?
It's probably not the only possible way but was the first animal with a vacant expression that he thought of.
Can you think of other animalistic expressions that could be considered vacant?
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
No, no it's not. It's comparing an expression. Are we now saying that comparing an expression is tantamount to racism?
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.
unless you think the comparison to a gorilla is the only possible way of describing a vacant stare?
It's probably not the only possible way but was the first animal with a vacant expression that he though of.
Can you think of other animalistic expressions that could be considered vacant?
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
He didn't compare a mixed race man to a gorilla though, did he?
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
Comparing his expression to that of a gorilla isn't comparing him to a gorilla? That seems like exactly what he was doing comparing Barclay to a gorilla in some way.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
No, no it's not. It's comparing an expression. Are we now saying that comparing an expression is tantamount to racism?
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.
unless you think the comparison to a gorilla is the only possible way of describing a vacant stare?
It's probably not the only possible way but was the first animal with a vacant expression that he though of.
Can you think of other animalistic expressions that could be considered vacant?
I'm going to stick with my gut feeling though and say he's just implying/saying that Bong has bad breath, i don't think for a second he said "you’re black and you stink.”
If that video is the only evidence they have, then i don't see how anything will happen to Rodriguez.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?
Says the guy defending Kelvin fucking Mackenzie.
Nope. Not defending one of your own at all. I'm putting what he said in to context. The man's odious. I don't like him at all.
However, I wont incorrectly label something as being something it isn't purely because the individual is a massive c**t.
Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks. I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon. It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
You're probably right. Rodriguez, if he was American, would probably have voted for Trump. I came to this conclusion due to the concrete link you mention between Trumps comment and Rodriguez's common reaction when two people are in each other's faces. I mean it's the first thing that any balanced individual would, and should, think of when seeing that on a British football field. That and the fact that he exhibits all the traits of white supremacy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were related.
You can mock me, although I admitted that I am probably over wired on this, and made a connection I shouldn't have. You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.
That chant's rubbish. 'Millwall' and 'Fuck em all' at least rhyme but 'black cunt' ruins the flow completely. Maybe it's some kind of Bermondsey Haiku that she was going for.
Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks. I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon. It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
You're probably right. Rodriguez, if he was American, would probably have voted for Trump. I came to this conclusion due to the concrete link you mention between Trumps comment and Rodriguez's common reaction when two people are in each other's faces. I mean it's the first thing that any balanced individual would, and should, think of when seeing that on a British football field. That and the fact that he exhibits all the traits of white supremacy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were related.
You can mock me, although I admitted that I am probably over wired on this, and made a connection I shouldn't have. You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.
You took my 'concrete' reference as me being serious? I think you were/are the only person to do so. Misrepresentation, anyone?
I just tried to point out the ludricrous nature of the reasoning you gave for coming to your conclusion.
Re the video you mention, I think most people have represented that old woman fairly correctly. If someone wants to then claim it's the fault of MFC then they'd be wrong. Much in the same way that the racist train chanters aren't representative of CAFC.
To clear this up. You say my connection was ludicrous but I made an effort to point out it was a personal take rather than attempting to state my connection as fact...and the context was about current events including the Trump African shitholes remarks. If you like I was tapping in to an aspect of the zeitgeist of modern times.
Apologies for not being able to read your mind regarding your use of the word concrete, I was going by your words instead.
Re the video you mention, I think most people have represented that old woman fairly correctly. If someone wants to then claim it's the fault of MFC then they'd be wrong.
Apologies for not having read this whole thread, and it may already have been mentioned, but this event comes hard on the heels of Trump calling African countries 'shitholes', and of course shit mainly stinks. I am probably over wired to this kind of thing, but I interpreted the smell gesture as racist because of the recent behaviour of the President of the United States. Bong was born in Cameroon. It wasn't exactly a nice thing to do on the part of Rodriguez, and we also don't know what was said in addition.
You're probably right. Rodriguez, if he was American, would probably have voted for Trump. I came to this conclusion due to the concrete link you mention between Trumps comment and Rodriguez's common reaction when two people are in each other's faces. I mean it's the first thing that any balanced individual would, and should, think of when seeing that on a British football field. That and the fact that he exhibits all the traits of white supremacy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were related.
You can mock me, although I admitted that I am probably over wired on this, and made a connection I shouldn't have. You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.
You took my 'concrete' reference as me being serious? I think you were/are the only person to do so. Misrepresentation, anyone?
I just tried to point out the ludricrous nature of the reasoning you gave for coming to your conclusion.
Re the video you mention, I think most people have represented that old woman fairly correctly. If someone wants to then claim it's the fault of MFC then they'd be wrong. Much in the same way that the racist train chanters aren't representative of CAFC.
To clear this up. You say my connection was ludicrous but I made an effort to point out it was a personal take rather than attempting to state my connection as fact...and the context was about current events including the Trump African shitholes remarks. If you like I was tapping in to an aspect of the zeitgeist of modern times.
Apologies for not being able to read your mind regarding your use of the word concrete, I was going by your words instead.
It wasn't my mind that required reading. It was my obviously sarcastic in nature response.
Look, you usually come across as quite a balanced individual but on this occasion I believe you to be wide of the mark and allowing emotion to cloud your reasoning. Shoe horning Trump in to this debate means you're assuming quite a lot of things. Not least Rodriguez knowing where Bong originates from and having the wherewithal, in that split second moment, to think of current political affairs and make a gesture along those lines. On television. In front of millions.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?
Says the guy defending Kelvin fucking Mackenzie.
Nope. Not defending one of your own at all. I'm putting what he said in to context. The man's odious. I don't like him at all.
However, I wont incorrectly label something as being something it isn't purely because the individual is a massive c**t.
Unless you have direct access to his brain, I have no idea how you could possibly be so certain regarding what he meant. Much like a lot of the discussion in this thread, be it about Firmino, MacKenzie or Rodriguez.
I maintain that there's an undercurrent to this thread that makes me uncomfortable. Your nonsensical 'chosen perception' line hasn't changed that, but most of what you have said has enhanced it.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?
Says the guy defending Kelvin fucking Mackenzie.
Nope. Not defending one of your own at all. I'm putting what he said in to context. The man's odious. I don't like him at all.
However, I wont incorrectly label something as being something it isn't purely because the individual is a massive c**t.
Unless you have direct access to his brain, I have no idea how you could possibly be so certain regarding what he meant. Much like a lot of the discussion in this thread, be it about Firmino, MacKenzie or Rodriguez.
I maintain that there's an undercurrent to this thread that makes me uncomfortable. Your nonsensical 'chosen perception' line hasn't changed that, but most of what you have said has enhanced it.
I maintain that you're actively looking for an undercurrent that isn't there, to justify trying to stigmatise people so that it closes down a debate because you feel uncomfortable discussing it.
As for my 'nonsensical' line. What is nonsensical about it? You stated that 'There's a really nasty undercurrent'. Now that's a statement, not a suggestion of belief. So, unless you have access to the brains of the posters you disagree with, I have no idea how you could possibly be so certain that this undercurrent exists other than in your chosen perception of what has been said.
The speculation over something that allegedly was said that none of us can quantify is genuinely staggering.
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
Wasn't it Ross Barclay he wrote that about, how happens to be mixed race? In which case he deserved the sack for being incredibly stupid. You'd think a basic google of the person you're writing about before publishing should be the bare minimum standard a journalist is held to. So he even didn't bother to do a basic part of his job before publishing the article, or did the research and decided that comparing a mixed race man to a gorilla was a good idea. Either way he shouldn't be surprised at getting the sack for it.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.
Is there? or is that your chosen perception of it, which has every chance of being misplaced/wrong?
Says the guy defending Kelvin fucking Mackenzie.
Nope. Not defending one of your own at all. I'm putting what he said in to context. The man's odious. I don't like him at all.
However, I wont incorrectly label something as being something it isn't purely because the individual is a massive c**t.
Unless you have direct access to his brain, I have no idea how you could possibly be so certain regarding what he meant. Much like a lot of the discussion in this thread, be it about Firmino, MacKenzie or Rodriguez.
I maintain that there's an undercurrent to this thread that makes me uncomfortable. Your nonsensical 'chosen perception' line hasn't changed that, but most of what you have said has enhanced it.
to justify trying to stigmatise people so that it closes down a debate because you feel uncomfortable discussing it.
Given that I haven't told you what I think, you're making some utterly ludicrous, or at least, incredibly defensive assumptions.
As for the nonsensical part - 'your chosen perception' - what in the actual fuck are you talking about? Again, I'd like to point out that you couldn't have the foggiest idea what my perception is, let alone whether I have consciously chosen to feel that way.
Comments
Barmby has now reacted angrily to suggestions that he racially abused Boateng."
FAKE NEWS
How some of you have come to the conclusions you have and how you have shown your working out, in the interests of being polite, I think you are crediting both players with a lot more political, social and historical awareness.
I genuinely dislike Kelvin Mackenzie however the false outrage over him saying Wayne Rooney had the same dead look in his eyes as a gorilla was a watershed moment. It brought into play the fact that anyone is allowed to loudly be offended and you can lose your job (I have no sympathy for McKenzie) depending on how someone interprets something. Even if the interpretation is light years away from what was meant.
There's a really nasty undercurrent to this thread, and I feel a little but shitty for having read through it.
He wrote that he was "certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home", adding: "I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo".
Saying that Barkley has a similar vacant expression to that of a gorilla is not the same as saying that Barkley looks like, or should be compared to a gorilla.
It's a classic case of looking for something that isn't there due to a vacuous micro aggression culture.
It probably wasn't racist, it was just stupid and incompetent, as was everybody above him in the editing and publication chain at the Sun. So it's only unfair on Kelvin in that nobody else took any responsibility, so he had it all dumped on him.
The reason for my stance is that I believe it does a huge disservice to actual claims of racism that should be thoroughly investigated and the harshest possible punishment meted out to those guilty of such.
You called my link 'concrete' where I explicitly avoided that, so you have misrepresented me, just as people misrepresent that old woman in that car with the little kid encouraging him to chant 'Millwall, fuck 'em all' ending with 'black cunt', as being anything to do with Millwall.
I just tried to point out the ludricrous nature of the reasoning you gave for coming to your conclusion.
Re the video you mention, I think most people have represented that old woman fairly correctly. If someone wants to then claim it's the fault of MFC then they'd be wrong. Much in the same way that the racist train chanters aren't representative of CAFC.
Can you think of other animalistic expressions that could be considered vacant?
The race card however, can be used in a positive way.
It is all too often used in a negative way, this is not ideal, but will always exist.
Racism can never be right.
Racism should never be tolerated.
Racism must be removed from society. Not the word, but the behaviour.
I'm going to stick with my gut feeling though and say he's just implying/saying that Bong has bad breath, i don't think for a second he said "you’re black and you stink.”
If that video is the only evidence they have, then i don't see how anything will happen to Rodriguez.
However, I wont incorrectly label something as being something it isn't purely because the individual is a massive c**t.
Apologies for not being able to read your mind regarding your use of the word concrete, I was going by your words instead.
Look, you usually come across as quite a balanced individual but on this occasion I believe you to be wide of the mark and allowing emotion to cloud your reasoning. Shoe horning Trump in to this debate means you're assuming quite a lot of things. Not least Rodriguez knowing where Bong originates from and having the wherewithal, in that split second moment, to think of current political affairs and make a gesture along those lines. On television. In front of millions.
I maintain that there's an undercurrent to this thread that makes me uncomfortable. Your nonsensical 'chosen
perception' line hasn't changed that, but most of what you have said has enhanced it.
As for my 'nonsensical' line. What is nonsensical about it? You stated that 'There's a really nasty undercurrent'. Now that's a statement, not a suggestion of belief. So, unless you have access to the brains of the posters you disagree with, I have no idea how you could possibly be so certain that this undercurrent exists other than in your chosen perception of what has been said.
As for the nonsensical part - 'your chosen perception' - what in the actual fuck are you talking about? Again, I'd like to point out that you couldn't have the foggiest idea what my perception is, let alone whether I have consciously chosen to feel that way.