I have a lot of respect for Wright. He is a very good player. If he was younger he would certainly be in consideration for our T20 and ODI sides now.
He played limited overs cricket the way England do now but was too early for England to recognise the benefit of it. He was exactly what we needed but was endlessly dropped for Cook/Trott/Bell dour show. Massive fan.
Selecting players for Tests based on limited-overs batting is something we've done before. Mark Butcher only got back in the side in 2001 after hitting a really good 80-odd for Surrey in the C&G. Trescothick got in off the back of limited-overs form
Neither Hales or Roy are trusted by their counties to bat higher than 5 simply because against a moving ball with four slips and a gully, even with the standard of bowling as poor as it is in county cricket nowadays, their technique and desire to hit the ball is found out. In Hales' case it already has. Those thick edges that ordinarily fly down to third man in ODIs and T20s are taken in Tests.
But then in the Ashes series, and indeed in the sub continent, you're not facing a Dukes ball seaming off a green pitch. Roy and Hales might struggle on an English seamer, but I can't see them doing any worse than Stoneman or Vince in Australian conditions, when there is little lateral movement from the seamers
There is, indeed, an argument for playing different batsmen in different conditions.
However, Hales opened the batting eight times in South Africa and scored just 136 in total at an average of 17. In two home series he scored 292 runs from five innings at an average of 58 in against a very poor Sri Lanka attack and scored 145 runs, again in eight innings, at an average of 18 against Pakistan. I just don't think he is good enough and as I say, the fact that Notts don't want him opening is enough to convince me that he hasn't a future in international red ball.
Roy is another one not considered technically sound enough to open for his county. He has a lifetime first class average of less than 38 but there is one stat that stands out for me - his strike rate is over 82. Compare that to say Joe Root who has a first class average of over 51 but a strike rate of 56 or Cook who has an average of 48 and an SR of 50. Smith's average is 58 and has an SR of 57.
The point that I am, in a long winded way, trying to make is that the great Test batsmen know how to occupy the crease - and that they do no different in first class cricket either. Yes Roy can and has on the odd occasion (as has Hales) in ODIs for 40-50 overs but that is not what is required in four/five day cricket. Roy goes at the ball too much and hasn't proven that he can adapt his style - as evidenced by the fact that I am struggling to think of any top batsman who has an SR anywhere near as high as his.
I wasn't necessarily suggesting either Hales or Roy as an opener, but in the Ashes either could have done as good a job as Vince, as at least both have the temperament to succeed in high pressure international cricket. Maybe Malan at 3 or 4 with Hales or Roy at 5?
Hales previously never worked out a way of playing Test cricket, by trying to be "solid" he ended up being neither solid nor a stroke layer. Warner shows what can be done though, everyone laughed when he was first called up to the Test team - "He's just a T20 slogger" - but he adapted his technique.
A statement from the CPS said it received further material in late December.
"Following a review of all the available evidence, the CPS has today authorised the police to charge three men with affray in connection with the incident," it said.
"Ben Stokes, 26, Ryan Ali, 28, and Ryan Hale, 26, are all due to appear before Bristol Magistrates' Court on a date to be fixed in relation to this charge."
Affray Public Order Act 1986, s.3 Effective from: 04 August 2008 Triable either way Maximum when tried summarily: Level 5 fine and/or 6 months Maximum when tried on indictment: 3 Years
No idea what the difference between the 2 categories is, but looking at the sentencing guidelines, as he didn't have a weapon, it's unlikely to be at the higher end
I a massive fan of Roy and always have been. He's a brilliant one day batsman. However, when everyone was fit and available last season he struggled to get in the Surrey side for the championship. He will probably play this year as we have lost a few players and he isn't going to the IPL. He's had some very good years in the championship but I don't thibk he has enough for test cricket. If he nails down a slot at 4 for Surrey and has an exceptional year then maybe he has a chance. I just don't see that happening.
You could maybe make a case for him to bat 6 in Aus conditions. Still a no from me though.
I a massive fan of Roy and always have been. He's a brilliant one day batsman. However, when everyone was fit and available last season he struggled to get in the Surrey side for the championship. He will probably play this year as we have lost a few players and he isn'twasnt going to the IPL. He's had some very good years in the championship but I don't thibk he has enough for test cricket. If he nails down a slot at 4 for Surrey and has an exceptional year then maybe he has a chance. I just don't see that happening.
You could maybe make a case for him to bat 6 in Aus conditions. Still a no from me though.
Fixed. Think he will now. Got to be better than some of the ponced up 3rd or 4th rate Aussie openers they sometimes employ.
I a massive fan of Roy and always have been. He's a brilliant one day batsman. However, when everyone was fit and available last season he struggled to get in the Surrey side for the championship. He will probably play this year as we have lost a few players and he isn'twasnt going to the IPL. He's had some very good years in the championship but I don't thibk he has enough for test cricket. If he nails down a slot at 4 for Surrey and has an exceptional year then maybe he has a chance. I just don't see that happening.
You could maybe make a case for him to bat 6 in Aus conditions. Still a no from me though.
Fixed. Think he will now. Got to be better than some of the ponced up 3rd or 4th rate Aussie openers they sometimes employ.
True. He may well have teams after him after yesterday. I'm still not certain he will go. He was pretty scathing of his whole experience last year.
He was bought for big money and told he was going to open. They then for no obvious reason bought 3 other openers into the club. They played him a game or 2 at 4 or 5 where he made a few quick 20s off the last few balls of the game. But that's not his role and he wasn't happy. They then dropped him for a young Indian kid who scored barely any runs at a pretty poor strike rate if I remember correctly. He was pretty unhappy with not playing regularly and I think it was a big factor in ruining his form and confidence whixh culminated in him being dropped by England in the champions trophy.
Think he was willing to forego a large chunk of his IPL fee to leave a couple of weeks early and get back to Surrey.
Think he will want some assurances before he goes back.
I a massive fan of Roy and always have been. He's a brilliant one day batsman. However, when everyone was fit and available last season he struggled to get in the Surrey side for the championship. He will probably play this year as we have lost a few players and he isn't going to the IPL. He's had some very good years in the championship but I don't thibk he has enough for test cricket. If he nails down a slot at 4 for Surrey and has an exceptional year then maybe he has a chance. I just don't see that happening.
You could maybe make a case for him to bat 6 in Aus conditions. Still a no from me though.
Spot on mate. Now stop staring at strangers on trains
Strike rate is not the best means of determining who should be selected in the team. Otherwise, the ECB would be bending over backwards to get Graeme Swann back playing as a batsman.
But it's worth noting that there are 16 players in the last ten years with a SR over 80.
And if we're discounting players because - like Roy - they appear to be scoring too fast for Test match cricket, then someone has to have a quiet word with Virender Sehwag (89.4).
Strike rate is not the best means of determining who should be selected in the team. Otherwise, the ECB would be bending over backwards to get Graeme Swann back playing as a batsman.
But it's worth noting that there are 16 players in the last ten years with a SR over 80.
And if we're discounting players because - like Roy - they appear to be scoring too fast for Test match cricket, then someone has to have a quiet word with Virender Sehwag (89.4).
Yes but Sehwag averaged 49.34 in Tests at strike rate of 82.23 opening the batting - whereas Roy averages 37.72 in the CC at an almost identical strike rate of 82.22 - batting at 5 or 6 and a lot of the time scoring those runs in Division 2 too.
As Canters says, Roy struggled to get in the Surrey Championship side last season and only actually played 7 matches. If Alex Stewart, who knows a bit about batting and in Tests too, doesn't think he's good enough to bat at 5 or 6 in the CC then that is good enough for me to believe that he will struggle to do so against the likes of Australia, South Africa, India etc etc.
Test cricket is about occupying the crease. Lara, Tendulkar and now Smith all did and do that and their SR was between 53 and 55. They could all play the hardest shot of all too - the "leave".
Strike rate is not the best means of determining who should be selected in the team. Otherwise, the ECB would be bending over backwards to get Graeme Swann back playing as a batsman.
But it's worth noting that there are 16 players in the last ten years with a SR over 80.
And if we're discounting players because - like Roy - they appear to be scoring too fast for Test match cricket, then someone has to have a quiet word with Virender Sehwag (89.4).
Yes but Sehwag averaged 49.34 in Tests at strike rate of 82.23 opening the batting - whereas Roy averages 37.72 in the CC at an almost identical strike rate of 82.22 - batting at 5 or 6 and a lot of the time scoring those runs in Division 2 too.
As Canters says, Roy struggled to get in the Surrey Championship side last season and only actually played 7 matches. If Alex Stewart, who knows a bit about batting and in Tests too, doesn't think he's good enough to bat at 5 or 6 in the CC then that is good enough for me to believe that he will struggle to do so against the likes of Australia, South Africa, India etc etc.
Test cricket is about occupying the crease. Lara, Tendulkar and now Smith all did and do that and their SR was between 53 and 55. They could all play the hardest shot of all too - the "leave".
I'm not a fan of Roy, but I think it's unfair to criticise his occupation of the crease when he isn't being selected.
Just watching (as you do) the highlights of the India v Papua U19 World Cup match. PNG were 64 all out from 61-4. In reply India got them for no loss - in 8 overs!
The aspect that really hit home though is that both opening Indian bowlers were hitting 87-88 mph. Our England Test side would struggle against that let alone 16/17 year old from PNG.
Strike rate is not the best means of determining who should be selected in the team. Otherwise, the ECB would be bending over backwards to get Graeme Swann back playing as a batsman.
But it's worth noting that there are 16 players in the last ten years with a SR over 80.
And if we're discounting players because - like Roy - they appear to be scoring too fast for Test match cricket, then someone has to have a quiet word with Virender Sehwag (89.4).
Yes but Sehwag averaged 49.34 in Tests at strike rate of 82.23 opening the batting - whereas Roy averages 37.72 in the CC at an almost identical strike rate of 82.22 - batting at 5 or 6 and a lot of the time scoring those runs in Division 2 too.
As Canters says, Roy struggled to get in the Surrey Championship side last season and only actually played 7 matches. If Alex Stewart, who knows a bit about batting and in Tests too, doesn't think he's good enough to bat at 5 or 6 in the CC then that is good enough for me to believe that he will struggle to do so against the likes of Australia, South Africa, India etc etc.
Test cricket is about occupying the crease. Lara, Tendulkar and now Smith all did and do that and their SR was between 53 and 55. They could all play the hardest shot of all too - the "leave".
I'm not a fan of Roy, but I think it's unfair to criticise his occupation of the crease when he isn't being selected.
I just think that it is a symptom of a batsman who only has one mindset which is based on the principle of "see ball/hit ball".
In today's Times, Steve James wrote a piece with the headline "Why Roy is not the answer to Test woes (yet)" James goes on to say:
Though he opened in his early days with Surrey, Roy is not a longer-form opener now. His technique, which prefers the leg side because of a right shoulder always eager for a piece of the action, is not really suited. But that is not to say that he is some agriculturist at the crease. It takes a significantly high level of skill to attack bowlers of the speed of Starc and Cummins. Finding the correct tempo is always the greatest challenge for one-day specialists in the longer form.
Buttler has never found that, for instance. Perhaps the most telling period of Sunday’s innings was between the 11th and 20th overs when Roy and Joe Root did not hit a boundary.
Root looked at ease, Roy looked on edge. Decisions came easily to Root, not always so to Roy. Reverting to savagery helped him, but it was an important period of self-learning.
Simplicity appears to be Roy’s most helpful ally. But selflessness is also a constant companion in the aggressive, get-the-side-off-to-a-flyer role he plays. That explains his popularity in the England ODI team.
He is now rather popular to a wider audience. Could that extend to Test cricket’s brethren in the future? He is not close at the moment but, if he builds on Sunday’s innings, then imaginations may not be running quite so wild.
Comments
He played limited overs cricket the way England do now but was too early for England to recognise the benefit of it. He was exactly what we needed but was endlessly dropped for Cook/Trott/Bell dour show. Massive fan.
Hales previously never worked out a way of playing Test cricket, by trying to be "solid" he ended up being neither solid nor a stroke layer. Warner shows what can be done though, everyone laughed when he was first called up to the Test team - "He's just a T20 slogger" - but he adapted his technique.
Really not sure how this affects anything.
Does that mean anything?
"Following a review of all the available evidence, the CPS has today authorised the police to charge three men with affray in connection with the incident," it said.
"Ben Stokes, 26, Ryan Ali, 28, and Ryan Hale, 26, are all due to appear before Bristol Magistrates' Court on a date to be fixed in relation to this charge."
You could maybe make a case for him to bat 6 in Aus conditions. Still a no from me though.
Think he will now. Got to be better than some of the ponced up 3rd or 4th rate Aussie openers they sometimes employ.
He was bought for big money and told he was going to open. They then for no obvious reason bought 3 other openers into the club. They played him a game or 2 at 4 or 5 where he made a few quick 20s off the last few balls of the game. But that's not his role and he wasn't happy. They then dropped him for a young Indian kid who scored barely any runs at a pretty poor strike rate if I remember correctly. He was pretty unhappy with not playing regularly and I think it was a big factor in ruining his form and confidence whixh culminated in him being dropped by England in the champions trophy.
Think he was willing to forego a large chunk of his IPL fee to leave a couple of weeks early and get back to Surrey.
Think he will want some assurances before he goes back.
Now stop staring at strangers on trains
But it's worth noting that there are 16 players in the last ten years with a SR over 80.
And if we're discounting players because - like Roy - they appear to be scoring too fast for Test match cricket, then someone has to have a quiet word with Virender Sehwag (89.4).
Roy all day long
As Canters says, Roy struggled to get in the Surrey Championship side last season and only actually played 7 matches. If Alex Stewart, who knows a bit about batting and in Tests too, doesn't think he's good enough to bat at 5 or 6 in the CC then that is good enough for me to believe that he will struggle to do so against the likes of Australia, South Africa, India etc etc.
Test cricket is about occupying the crease. Lara, Tendulkar and now Smith all did and do that and their SR was between 53 and 55. They could all play the hardest shot of all too - the "leave".
The aspect that really hit home though is that both opening Indian bowlers were hitting 87-88 mph. Our England Test side would struggle against that let alone 16/17 year old from PNG.
In today's Times, Steve James wrote a piece with the headline "Why Roy is not the answer to Test woes (yet)" James goes on to say:
Though he opened in his early days with Surrey, Roy is not a longer-form opener now. His technique, which prefers the leg side because of a right shoulder always eager for a piece of the action, is not really suited. But that is not to say that he is some agriculturist at the crease. It takes a significantly high level of skill to attack bowlers of the speed of Starc and Cummins. Finding the correct tempo is always the greatest challenge for one-day specialists in the longer form.
Buttler has never found that, for instance. Perhaps the most telling period of Sunday’s innings was between the 11th and 20th overs when Roy and Joe Root did not hit a boundary.
Root looked at ease, Roy looked on edge. Decisions came easily to Root, not always so to Roy. Reverting to savagery helped him, but it was an important period of self-learning.
Simplicity appears to be Roy’s most helpful ally. But selflessness is also a constant companion in the aggressive, get-the-side-off-to-a-flyer role he plays. That explains his popularity in the England ODI team.
He is now rather popular to a wider audience. Could that extend to Test cricket’s brethren in the future? He is not close at the moment but, if he builds on Sunday’s innings, then imaginations may not be running quite so wild.