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The influence of the EU on Britain.

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Comments

  • Maybe he could have thought of that before campaigning for it then.

    Voting for Brexit when you know which shower of shite is going to be orchestrating it is like wanting to experiment with nuclear fusion but putting a team of drunk half-wits in charge of it. Great idea if it works but total disaster if it goes tits up and depends entirely on the competency of those coordinating it.
  • Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
  • Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
    We are seeing some collateral damage simply from the result itself and the uncertainty we have been facing. On an industry wide scale, there has been a sustained drop in the number of private pension pots being crystallized compared to the year before and that drop was most stark between June and July 2016. Simply put, many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain.
  • Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
    We are seeing some collateral damage simply from the result itself and the uncertainty we have been facing. On an industry wide scale, there has been a sustained drop in the number of private pension pots being crystallized compared to the year before and that drop was most stark between June and July 2016. Simply put, many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain.
    Think you might be barking up the wring tree on pensions and Brexit. Pension pot crystallisation may have been for other reasons pre Brexit, maybe something to do with the pension changes in 2015? Anyone who had a pension invested in shares/trackers etc will be doing very well post Brexit vote, i'm up about 35% overall, US based funds nearer 45/50%, even bonds up 25%.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
    We are seeing some collateral damage simply from the result itself and the uncertainty we have been facing. On an industry wide scale, there has been a sustained drop in the number of private pension pots being crystallized compared to the year before and that drop was most stark between June and July 2016. Simply put, many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain.
    Think you might be barking up the wring tree on pensions and Brexit. Pension pot crystallisation may have been for other reasons pre Brexit, maybe something to do with the pension changes in 2015? Anyone who had a pension invested in shares/trackers etc will be doing very well post Brexit vote, i'm up about 35% overall, US based funds nearer 45/50%, even bonds up 25%.
    I don't think I am, considering this is my job. The figures I saw today saw a dramatic fall between June and July 2016 and it continues to be at a level around a sixth lower of what it was in the previous year. This is also the view of industry analysts.

    Whether or not your individual pension is better now after a year isn't really the point. It's about those looking at their pension forecasts and making a call over whether their current pot will cover them post-Brexit. Many saw the referendum result, assessed their situations and are at significantly lower levels, with the major dividing point being June/July 2016. Crystallization is a critical event in your pension's life and the data is clearly showing people have decided to put it off until a clearer picture of our economy develops. Whether or not their worries were justified remains to be seen but for now there is definitely a cooling in the mood of those who were hoping to take their PCLS.
  • Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
    We are seeing some collateral damage simply from the result itself and the uncertainty we have been facing. On an industry wide scale, there has been a sustained drop in the number of private pension pots being crystallized compared to the year before and that drop was most stark between June and July 2016. Simply put, many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain.
    Think you might be barking up the wring tree on pensions and Brexit. Pension pot crystallisation may have been for other reasons pre Brexit, maybe something to do with the pension changes in 2015? Anyone who had a pension invested in shares/trackers etc will be doing very well post Brexit vote, i'm up about 35% overall, US based funds nearer 45/50%, even bonds up 25%.
    I don't think I am, considering this is my job. The figures I saw today saw a dramatic fall between June and July 2016 and it continues to be at a level around a sixth lower of what it was in the previous year. This is also the view of industry analysts.

    Whether or not your individual pension is better now after a year isn't really the point. It's about those looking at their pension forecasts and making a call over whether their current pot will cover them post-Brexit. Many saw the referendum result, assessed their situations and are at significantly lower levels, with the major dividing point being June/July 2016. Crystallization is a critical event in your pension's life and the data is clearly showing people have decided to put it off until a clearer picture of our economy develops. Whether or not their worries were justified remains to be seen but for now there is definitely a cooling in the mood of those who were hoping to take their PCLS.
    I wasn't doubting your comment that there was a fall in people crystallising.

    I disagree with your statement though that specifically stated people weren't taking them due to value reduction: "......following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values.........."

    You'd have to have been pretty unlucky to have chosen the few funds that have shown a reduction in that time. Of the 230 funds available through the platform I use (Fidelity) i'm struggling to find many if any that show a reduction.

    Maybe people are seeing their pension pots increasing massively in that period, maybe they are hoping for more and thats why they aren't taking it yet?
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
    We are seeing some collateral damage simply from the result itself and the uncertainty we have been facing. On an industry wide scale, there has been a sustained drop in the number of private pension pots being crystallized compared to the year before and that drop was most stark between June and July 2016. Simply put, many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain.
    Think you might be barking up the wring tree on pensions and Brexit. Pension pot crystallisation may have been for other reasons pre Brexit, maybe something to do with the pension changes in 2015? Anyone who had a pension invested in shares/trackers etc will be doing very well post Brexit vote, i'm up about 35% overall, US based funds nearer 45/50%, even bonds up 25%.
    I don't think I am, considering this is my job. The figures I saw today saw a dramatic fall between June and July 2016 and it continues to be at a level around a sixth lower of what it was in the previous year. This is also the view of industry analysts.

    Whether or not your individual pension is better now after a year isn't really the point. It's about those looking at their pension forecasts and making a call over whether their current pot will cover them post-Brexit. Many saw the referendum result, assessed their situations and are at significantly lower levels, with the major dividing point being June/July 2016. Crystallization is a critical event in your pension's life and the data is clearly showing people have decided to put it off until a clearer picture of our economy develops. Whether or not their worries were justified remains to be seen but for now there is definitely a cooling in the mood of those who were hoping to take their PCLS.
    I wasn't doubting your comment that there was a fall in people crystallising.

    I disagree with your statement though that specifically stated people weren't taking them due to value reduction: "......following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values.........."

    You'd have to have been pretty unlucky to have chosen the few funds that have shown a reduction in that time. Of the 230 funds available through the platform I use (Fidelity) i'm struggling to find many if any that show a reduction.

    Maybe people are seeing their pension pots increasing massively in that period, maybe they are hoping for more and thats why they aren't taking it yet?
    Stock markets have boomed in the last 12 months and savings rates remain at an historic low.

    If you have a choice of spending savings or drawing a pension, you would appear to be foolish to do the latter.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
    We are seeing some collateral damage simply from the result itself and the uncertainty we have been facing. On an industry wide scale, there has been a sustained drop in the number of private pension pots being crystallized compared to the year before and that drop was most stark between June and July 2016. Simply put, many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain.
    Think you might be barking up the wring tree on pensions and Brexit. Pension pot crystallisation may have been for other reasons pre Brexit, maybe something to do with the pension changes in 2015? Anyone who had a pension invested in shares/trackers etc will be doing very well post Brexit vote, i'm up about 35% overall, US based funds nearer 45/50%, even bonds up 25%.
    I don't think I am, considering this is my job. The figures I saw today saw a dramatic fall between June and July 2016 and it continues to be at a level around a sixth lower of what it was in the previous year. This is also the view of industry analysts.

    Whether or not your individual pension is better now after a year isn't really the point. It's about those looking at their pension forecasts and making a call over whether their current pot will cover them post-Brexit. Many saw the referendum result, assessed their situations and are at significantly lower levels, with the major dividing point being June/July 2016. Crystallization is a critical event in your pension's life and the data is clearly showing people have decided to put it off until a clearer picture of our economy develops. Whether or not their worries were justified remains to be seen but for now there is definitely a cooling in the mood of those who were hoping to take their PCLS.
    I wasn't doubting your comment that there was a fall in people crystallising.

    I disagree with your statement though that specifically stated people weren't taking them due to value reduction: "......following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values.........."

    You'd have to have been pretty unlucky to have chosen the few funds that have shown a reduction in that time. Of the 230 funds available through the platform I use (Fidelity) i'm struggling to find many if any that show a reduction.

    Maybe people are seeing their pension pots increasing massively in that period, maybe they are hoping for more and thats why they aren't taking it yet?
    The one thing your posts are proving is that people on here will like anything that backs up their political biases regardless of whether they understand it or even if it's true.

    June/July 2016 is definitely a turning point in terms pension crystallization and general investment activity. Only one specific event can be confidently attributed to why at the end of June investor confidence suffered a massive drop from which it still has not recovered.

    You are getting fixated on the idea that funds are better today than they were a year ago. That isn't the point here. With an ageing population it is expected that crystallization would trend upwards, especially with a growing market. The rationale here is that you take your maximum PCLS and the rest of your pension continues to grow at a healthy rate to provide for your in your retirement once you stop working. The drop in activity seen since the vote is normally the kind of activity you only see after a market crash; the same thing occurred in 2007-08 which saw several events that made potential retirees put off their plans.

    When I say drop in values, I meant drop in what investors expect as returns over the medium to long term, which is crucial to look at when you're considering crystallising the pot you need to support you for the 30 or 40 years you could potentially live once you stop working. The main reason why someone would not take their PCLS when previously they would have considered doing so is because they realise that their pot may not be big enough, not because they see some sort of Brexit land of milk and honey and they're keeping their powder dry.
  • Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
    We are seeing some collateral damage simply from the result itself and the uncertainty we have been facing. On an industry wide scale, there has been a sustained drop in the number of private pension pots being crystallized compared to the year before and that drop was most stark between June and July 2016. Simply put, many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain.
    Think you might be barking up the wring tree on pensions and Brexit. Pension pot crystallisation may have been for other reasons pre Brexit, maybe something to do with the pension changes in 2015? Anyone who had a pension invested in shares/trackers etc will be doing very well post Brexit vote, i'm up about 35% overall, US based funds nearer 45/50%, even bonds up 25%.
    I don't think I am, considering this is my job. The figures I saw today saw a dramatic fall between June and July 2016 and it continues to be at a level around a sixth lower of what it was in the previous year. This is also the view of industry analysts.

    Whether or not your individual pension is better now after a year isn't really the point. It's about those looking at their pension forecasts and making a call over whether their current pot will cover them post-Brexit. Many saw the referendum result, assessed their situations and are at significantly lower levels, with the major dividing point being June/July 2016. Crystallization is a critical event in your pension's life and the data is clearly showing people have decided to put it off until a clearer picture of our economy develops. Whether or not their worries were justified remains to be seen but for now there is definitely a cooling in the mood of those who were hoping to take their PCLS.
    I wasn't doubting your comment that there was a fall in people crystallising.

    I disagree with your statement though that specifically stated people weren't taking them due to value reduction: "......following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values.........."

    You'd have to have been pretty unlucky to have chosen the few funds that have shown a reduction in that time. Of the 230 funds available through the platform I use (Fidelity) i'm struggling to find many if any that show a reduction.

    Maybe people are seeing their pension pots increasing massively in that period, maybe they are hoping for more and thats why they aren't taking it yet?
    The one thing your posts are proving is that people on here will like anything that backs up their political biases regardless of whether they understand it or even if it's true.

    June/July 2016 is definitely a turning point in terms pension crystallization and general investment activity. Only one specific event can be confidently attributed to why at the end of June investor confidence suffered a massive drop from which it still has not recovered.

    You are getting fixated on the idea that funds are better today than they were a year ago. That isn't the point here. With an ageing population it is expected that crystallization would trend upwards, especially with a growing market. The rationale here is that you take your maximum PCLS and the rest of your pension continues to grow at a healthy rate to provide for your in your retirement once you stop working. The drop in activity seen since the vote is normally the kind of activity you only see after a market crash; the same thing occurred in 2007-08 which saw several events that made potential retirees put off their plans.

    When I say drop in values, I meant drop in what investors expect as returns over the medium to long term, which is crucial to look at when you're considering crystallising the pot you need to support you for the 30 or 40 years you could potentially live once you stop working. The main reason why someone would not take their PCLS when previously they would have considered doing so is because they realise that their pot may not be big enough, not because they see some sort of Brexit land of milk and honey and they're keeping their powder dry.
    Well I for one disagree. I haven't taken my PCLS for the reason Rob7Lee said.
    The pension pot value has increased by 25% and savings are paying 1-2%.
    I'd be a fool to spend the fund growing at 25%, if I can spend the fund growing at 1-2%.
  • Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
    We are seeing some collateral damage simply from the result itself and the uncertainty we have been facing. On an industry wide scale, there has been a sustained drop in the number of private pension pots being crystallized compared to the year before and that drop was most stark between June and July 2016. Simply put, many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain.
    Think you might be barking up the wring tree on pensions and Brexit. Pension pot crystallisation may have been for other reasons pre Brexit, maybe something to do with the pension changes in 2015? Anyone who had a pension invested in shares/trackers etc will be doing very well post Brexit vote, i'm up about 35% overall, US based funds nearer 45/50%, even bonds up 25%.
    I don't think I am, considering this is my job. The figures I saw today saw a dramatic fall between June and July 2016 and it continues to be at a level around a sixth lower of what it was in the previous year. This is also the view of industry analysts.

    Whether or not your individual pension is better now after a year isn't really the point. It's about those looking at their pension forecasts and making a call over whether their current pot will cover them post-Brexit. Many saw the referendum result, assessed their situations and are at significantly lower levels, with the major dividing point being June/July 2016. Crystallization is a critical event in your pension's life and the data is clearly showing people have decided to put it off until a clearer picture of our economy develops. Whether or not their worries were justified remains to be seen but for now there is definitely a cooling in the mood of those who were hoping to take their PCLS.
    I wasn't doubting your comment that there was a fall in people crystallising.

    I disagree with your statement though that specifically stated people weren't taking them due to value reduction: "......following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values.........."

    You'd have to have been pretty unlucky to have chosen the few funds that have shown a reduction in that time. Of the 230 funds available through the platform I use (Fidelity) i'm struggling to find many if any that show a reduction.

    Maybe people are seeing their pension pots increasing massively in that period, maybe they are hoping for more and thats why they aren't taking it yet?
    The one thing your posts are proving is that people on here will like anything that backs up their political biases regardless of whether they understand it or even if it's true.

    June/July 2016 is definitely a turning point in terms pension crystallization and general investment activity. Only one specific event can be confidently attributed to why at the end of June investor confidence suffered a massive drop from which it still has not recovered.

    You are getting fixated on the idea that funds are better today than they were a year ago. That isn't the point here. With an ageing population it is expected that crystallization would trend upwards, especially with a growing market. The rationale here is that you take your maximum PCLS and the rest of your pension continues to grow at a healthy rate to provide for your in your retirement once you stop working. The drop in activity seen since the vote is normally the kind of activity you only see after a market crash; the same thing occurred in 2007-08 which saw several events that made potential retirees put off their plans.

    When I say drop in values, I meant drop in what investors expect as returns over the medium to long term, which is crucial to look at when you're considering crystallising the pot you need to support you for the 30 or 40 years you could potentially live once you stop working. The main reason why someone would not take their PCLS when previously they would have considered doing so is because they realise that their pot may not be big enough, not because they see some sort of Brexit land of milk and honey and they're keeping their powder dry.
    Well I for one disagree. I haven't taken my PCLS for the reason Rob7Lee said.
    The pension pot value has increased by 25% and savings are paying 1-2%.
    I'd be a fool to spend the fund growing at 25%, if I can spend the fund growing at 1-2%.
    I'm still waiting for a reason why July 2016 saw a massive drop usually only seen after market crashes and other investor confidence knocking events.
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  • Fiiish said:

    Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
    We are seeing some collateral damage simply from the result itself and the uncertainty we have been facing. On an industry wide scale, there has been a sustained drop in the number of private pension pots being crystallized compared to the year before and that drop was most stark between June and July 2016. Simply put, many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain.
    Think you might be barking up the wring tree on pensions and Brexit. Pension pot crystallisation may have been for other reasons pre Brexit, maybe something to do with the pension changes in 2015? Anyone who had a pension invested in shares/trackers etc will be doing very well post Brexit vote, i'm up about 35% overall, US based funds nearer 45/50%, even bonds up 25%.
    I don't think I am, considering this is my job. The figures I saw today saw a dramatic fall between June and July 2016 and it continues to be at a level around a sixth lower of what it was in the previous year. This is also the view of industry analysts.

    Whether or not your individual pension is better now after a year isn't really the point. It's about those looking at their pension forecasts and making a call over whether their current pot will cover them post-Brexit. Many saw the referendum result, assessed their situations and are at significantly lower levels, with the major dividing point being June/July 2016. Crystallization is a critical event in your pension's life and the data is clearly showing people have decided to put it off until a clearer picture of our economy develops. Whether or not their worries were justified remains to be seen but for now there is definitely a cooling in the mood of those who were hoping to take their PCLS.
    I wasn't doubting your comment that there was a fall in people crystallising.

    I disagree with your statement though that specifically stated people weren't taking them due to value reduction: "......following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values.........."

    You'd have to have been pretty unlucky to have chosen the few funds that have shown a reduction in that time. Of the 230 funds available through the platform I use (Fidelity) i'm struggling to find many if any that show a reduction.

    Maybe people are seeing their pension pots increasing massively in that period, maybe they are hoping for more and thats why they aren't taking it yet?
    The one thing your posts are proving is that people on here will like anything that backs up their political biases regardless of whether they understand it or even if it's true.

    June/July 2016 is definitely a turning point in terms pension crystallization and general investment activity. Only one specific event can be confidently attributed to why at the end of June investor confidence suffered a massive drop from which it still has not recovered.

    You are getting fixated on the idea that funds are better today than they were a year ago. That isn't the point here. With an ageing population it is expected that crystallization would trend upwards, especially with a growing market. The rationale here is that you take your maximum PCLS and the rest of your pension continues to grow at a healthy rate to provide for your in your retirement once you stop working. The drop in activity seen since the vote is normally the kind of activity you only see after a market crash; the same thing occurred in 2007-08 which saw several events that made potential retirees put off their plans.

    When I say drop in values, I meant drop in what investors expect as returns over the medium to long term, which is crucial to look at when you're considering crystallising the pot you need to support you for the 30 or 40 years you could potentially live once you stop working. The main reason why someone would not take their PCLS when previously they would have considered doing so is because they realise that their pot may not be big enough, not because they see some sort of Brexit land of milk and honey and they're keeping their powder dry.
    Well I for one disagree. I haven't taken my PCLS for the reason Rob7Lee said.
    The pension pot value has increased by 25% and savings are paying 1-2%.
    I'd be a fool to spend the fund growing at 25%, if I can spend the fund growing at 1-2%.
    I'm still waiting for a reason why July 2016 saw a massive drop usually only seen after market crashes and other investor confidence knocking events.
    errrrr........ maybe something to do with the FTSE tanking?

    I don't know why you are getting all uppity, you stated people weren't drawing and having to work due to the value of their funds having reduced. You were very clear on that, now you've switched it to you meant future growth prospects in the medium to long term, very very different.

    Again, you stated: "many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain". I simply disagreed with the first comment (which I think you are now also) and gave another option as to why maybe right now people aren't (as has @Covered End ).
  • Rob7Lee said:

    errrrr........ maybe something to do with the FTSE tanking?

    I don't know why you are getting all uppity, you stated people weren't drawing and having to work due to the value of their funds having reduced. You were very clear on that, now you've switched it to you meant future growth prospects in the medium to long term, very very different.

    Again, you stated: "many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain". I simply disagreed with the first comment (which I think you are now also) and gave another option as to why maybe right now people aren't (as has @Covered End ).

    I've already clarified that statement so I'm not sure why you continue to be fixated on it. I did not perhaps word it clearly but I did mean drop in long term value, not in immediate value (you can't also apply the results of what happened a year after investor behaviour since investors aren't able to see the future and act accordingly, they act on the information in front of them).

    As for the FTSE tanking, the FTSE actually saw growth between June and July 2016. So that blows that theory out of the water.

    The message from investors is clear: they are not confident their pots are big enough to sustain them and until they have some clarity on the future then they will continue to work longer and put off retirement. This is bearish behaviour. It is also worth noting that the most popular funds with those imminent to retirement are the low risk low return ones and so are unlikely to be among those seeing the kind of returns you're describing (which I am also seeing in my ISA and pension but because I am young and therefore have a riskier investment strategy).
  • Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    errrrr........ maybe something to do with the FTSE tanking?

    I don't know why you are getting all uppity, you stated people weren't drawing and having to work due to the value of their funds having reduced. You were very clear on that, now you've switched it to you meant future growth prospects in the medium to long term, very very different.

    Again, you stated: "many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain". I simply disagreed with the first comment (which I think you are now also) and gave another option as to why maybe right now people aren't (as has @Covered End ).

    I've already clarified that statement so I'm not sure why you continue to be fixated on it. I did not perhaps word it clearly but I did mean drop in long term value, not in immediate value (you can't also apply the results of what happened a year after investor behaviour since investors aren't able to see the future and act accordingly, they act on the information in front of them).

    As for the FTSE tanking, the FTSE actually saw growth between June and July 2016. So that blows that theory out of the water.

    The message from investors is clear: they are not confident their pots are big enough to sustain them and until they have some clarity on the future then they will continue to work longer and put off retirement. This is bearish behaviour. It is also worth noting that the most popular funds with those imminent to retirement are the low risk low return ones and so are unlikely to be among those seeing the kind of returns you're describing (which I am also seeing in my ISA and pension but because I am young and therefore have a riskier investment strategy).
    You have clarified, but that original statement was the reason for my original reply that you took umbrage at.

    Growth between June and July 2016? June 1st FTSE100 7,520, 31st July 7,368?

    I just don't believe that the average 64/65 year old who was all set to take their pension shortly after the brexit vote is now holding off due to that. I've see no material evidence that is the reason - only @Covered End explaining why he's not drawing yet. It all comes down to personal circumstances and what other ability you have to fund your life, there was a hive of activity when the new pension rules came in (2015?).

    I just don't see this 'collateral damage' you refer to simply from the referendum result.
  • As a financial advisor that looks after quite a few pension pots I can categorically state that the FTSE hasn't "tanked" since Brexit, quite the opposite. On June 13th 2016, just 10 days before the referendum, the FTSE100 was at 6033 points, last week it hit its all time high at over 7500 points. Over the past 15 months all major stockmarkets are higher, including UK, US, Europe, Far East & emerging markets. On reviewing clients portfolios, the period June 2016-June 2017, on average saw increases of around 20%, for a balanced portfolio. The last few months things have been a little flat, but October has seen things pick up again.

    One reason why the crystallisation of "small" pension pots has fallen is because a lot of people took the money as soon as they could (Royal London's figures showed that more than 3x what The Treasury thought might happen) and also people are now wiser to the tax treatment to these pots (in case you didn't know, anything above the 25% "tax free" element is taxed on an emergency code, even if you are a non-taxpayer - so tax is taken off at source & you have to claim it back).

    Nothing to do with Brexit at all.
  • edited October 2017

    As a financial advisor that looks after quite a few pension pots I can categorically state that the FTSE hasn't "tanked" since Brexit, quite the opposite. On June 13th 2016, just 10 days before the referendum, the FTSE100 was at 6033 points, last week it hit its all time high at over 7500 points. Over the past 15 months all major stockmarkets are higher, including UK, US, Europe, Far East & emerging markets. On reviewing clients portfolios, the period June 2016-June 2017, on average saw increases of around 20%, for a balanced portfolio. The last few months things have been a little flat, but October has seen things pick up again.

    One reason why the crystallisation of "small" pension pots has fallen is because a lot of people took the money as soon as they could (Royal London's figures showed that more than 3x what The Treasury thought might happen) and also people are now wiser to the tax treatment to these pots (in case you didn't know, anything above the 25% "tax free" element is taxed on an emergency code, even if you are a non-taxpayer - so tax is taken off at source & you have to claim it back).

    Nothing to do with Brexit at all.

    This has already been covered. There was a very specific drop between June and July 2016 which has persisted for a year. People are not just considering how much they get now but whether what they have now will last them through retirement. As I said before, one would expect an ageing population and a growing portfolio to cause rates to continue as normal, yet crystallization rates dropped between June and July 2016 massively and it continues to be around a sixth lower than what it was previously. The Brexit result is clearly a factor here. The only people who seem to be desperate to try and spin this as nothing to with Brexit are only doing so because they want the facts to match their political biases. Maybe just accept for once that there is at least one negative effect from the referendum result?
  • Doh, I clearly looked at 2017 not 2016 :blush:

    I’ve no political bias with Brexit, it’s not political, your also making the wrong assumption I voted to leave.

    I just don’t share the view that (as yet) Brexit has had a negative effect on people taking their pensions. @Covered End personally and now @golfaddick professionally seem to agree.

    I’m not a pension expert, but when the rules changed (2015?) there was a lot of press around people rushing to take advantage, maybe that had an effect? There’s also been a lot more caution published about taking a lump sum and drawdown. @golfaddick has stated similar above.

    I’ve not read anything from any professional that shares your view or any stats that show the reduction is anything to do with Brexit, sentiment or otherwise, but happy to be corrected/shown?
  • Both those reports are 12+ months old, referring to annuity rates which subsequently have gone back up by around 20% and back to early 2015 levels. However the stark drop in annuity rates around the vote could indeed be a reason for the drop at that time.
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  • The problem is rates of uptake are still a sixth lower than they were compared to the year prior to the vote, which still would have been affected by the same pension changes outlined by yourself and golfie so the effect there is irrelevant. If any other reason can explain such a huge drop between June and July 2016 and a continued drop even though an ageing population and a growing market would expect to trend upwards (as it always has) I'd like to see it.
  • Although this is back in Feb it seems to indicate the drop is due to the slowing post the immediate increase after the pension rules changed.

    https://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/fca-advice-pension-pot/

    The FCA’s data, which covers July to September last year, also shows a 10 per cent drop in full cash withdrawals, an 8 per cent drop in first-time pension access and a 3 per cent drop in new drawdown policies, indicating that the pace of pension access is slowing nearly two years after the introduction of pension freedoms.
  • Fiiish said:
    You should stick to your areas of expertise @Fiiish.

    Golfie has already demolished the original nonsense you spouted with you falling into the trap of quoting lazy journalism ignorant of the subject.

    Like many uninformed commentators on pensions who don't grasp the combined impacts of investment yields, interest rates and inflation, they mostly talk out of their rectum.

    There is no new financial development post the referendum which was not already impacting pensions. One articles highlight the problem of low intetest rates, a problem caused by QE, not Brexit.

    The other highlights the problem of inadequate pension pots, A pension is made up of contributions and investment returns and the pot generated for a 45 year old by the next 20 years contributions will be (I'm guessing) 80% contributions and 20% investment growth, haven't got an actuary to give a more accurate figure.The problem of inadequate pension is inadequate contributions, the investment return aminor component. and paying the current average of 8% contributions equals a diddly squat pension regardless of investment returns.

    Next, investment returns come from global investments, the U.K. Market is just one choice of market to invest in, Brexit is irrelevant.

    Annuities highlighted as a problem is a diminishing issue since no one needs to buy one anymore, and anyway it's the long standing interest rate issue, not investments,

    Just another example of bored journalists getting some quotes and knocking out a pensions scare story, and if you're the Gaurdian blaming it on Brexit.

  • Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.

    Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.

    Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.

    'catastrophic' 'disasters' 'chaos' 'suicidal'
    I am afraid all those words were used up during the Remain referendum campaign.
    They were regularly used to describe the consequences of leaving the EU and the single market. Since the referendum the UK economy has continued to reap the benefits of being in the single market. You Brexiteers still don't seem to understand the consequences of leaving the single market and that we haven't left it yet! As Kenneth Clarke said today, you all seem to be living in La-La land.
    We are seeing some collateral damage simply from the result itself and the uncertainty we have been facing. On an industry wide scale, there has been a sustained drop in the number of private pension pots being crystallized compared to the year before and that drop was most stark between June and July 2016. Simply put, many of those who planned to retire in the year following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values and the continued unlikelihood that their current savings will be enough to support them in a post EU Britain.
    Think you might be barking up the wring tree on pensions and Brexit. Pension pot crystallisation may have been for other reasons pre Brexit, maybe something to do with the pension changes in 2015? Anyone who had a pension invested in shares/trackers etc will be doing very well post Brexit vote, i'm up about 35% overall, US based funds nearer 45/50%, even bonds up 25%.
    I don't think I am, considering this is my job. The figures I saw today saw a dramatic fall between June and July 2016 and it continues to be at a level around a sixth lower of what it was in the previous year. This is also the view of industry analysts.

    Whether or not your individual pension is better now after a year isn't really the point. It's about those looking at their pension forecasts and making a call over whether their current pot will cover them post-Brexit. Many saw the referendum result, assessed their situations and are at significantly lower levels, with the major dividing point being June/July 2016. Crystallization is a critical event in your pension's life and the data is clearly showing people have decided to put it off until a clearer picture of our economy develops. Whether or not their worries were justified remains to be seen but for now there is definitely a cooling in the mood of those who were hoping to take their PCLS.
    I wasn't doubting your comment that there was a fall in people crystallising.

    I disagree with your statement though that specifically stated people weren't taking them due to value reduction: "......following the referendum are working longer and putting off crystallising their pots because of drop in their values.........."

    You'd have to have been pretty unlucky to have chosen the few funds that have shown a reduction in that time. Of the 230 funds available through the platform I use (Fidelity) i'm struggling to find many if any that show a reduction.

    Maybe people are seeing their pension pots increasing massively in that period, maybe they are hoping for more and thats why they aren't taking it yet?
    When I say drop in values, I meant drop in what investors expect as returns over the medium to long term, which is crucial to look at when you're considering crystallising the pot you need to support you for the 30 or 40 years you could potentially live once you stop working. The main reason why someone would not take their PCLS when previously they would have considered doing so is because they realise that their pot may not be big enough, not because they see some sort of Brexit land of milk and honey and they're keeping their powder dry.
    How do you know what people coming up for retirement are thinking or why they are continuing to carry on working? There could be dozens of reasons.

    You have some valuable input in this thread, which I have found informative and useful.

    Stick to the financial side rather than dabbling in assumptions about other peoples situations and circumstances.

  • Fair enough, but if I'm asked as to what events have led to more cautious, bearish behaviour from investors in the last year I have given a fair and accurate assessment of events investors are plausibly reacting to, with dates of big turning points in behaviour change coinciding with certain events.
  • Thank goodness everything's gone so well today. I was starting to get worried.
  • I can understand the fuck 'em attitude to 'no deal'. But in reality isn't it just a negotiating stance, the nuclear option which would do us as much harm as good, and therefore inconceivable?

    Actually seems like only half the Tory cabinet agree with me and @Astoriaaddick the rest seem to think it is a viable option.
This discussion has been closed.

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