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International broadcasts...A response from the club

TELTEL
edited August 2007 in Charlton International
I wrote to the club last week for clarification on live broadcasts as I found the entry on the official site somewhat confusing. Im dissapointed that the club cannot for financial reasons continue live match commentary for those of us in exile. Ive pasted Steve Sutherlands response below for those of you who may be interested.

I have an idea on how to transmit the live broadcasts which Im working on....it may be a little "Heath Robinson" but I'll have a play tonight when the Swindon game is broadcast. If it works, I'll pass on the info...

Meanwhile heres the clubs official response.

Thank you for your e-mail regarding website commentaries; please accept my apologies for the slight delay in getting back to you. Whilst I appreciate how disappointing the news that we are unable to provide streamed match commentaries must be for you; as I tried to make clear in my article, unfortunately our hands are tied in this matter due to Football League rules – rules that differ considerably from those that we have been used to for the past 7 years in the Premier League.



The only way that we could have continued to provide match commentary via our website was to provide a subscription package for commentary and match/interviews video footage (it is not permissible by The Football League to separate radio from TV in this package) at a cost that was dictated to us by League regulations; costs which we considered too high i.e. £34.99. Unfortunately, as we are not a Football League Interactive club (Premium TV), to set up this system would have required significant capital expenditure and staff resources that, following our relegation, we simply do not have.



In addition, such subscription based models that cost not insignificant amounts to establish, have never proved popular in the past with our supporters. For instance, at its peak ‘Valley Vision’ had just 300 subscribers – nowhere near the numbers needed for this service to break even. We would have needed to have recruited considerably more subscribers than that just to cover the costs of setting up and operating the FLI system. This is partly because a large percentage of the £34.99 subscription fee is payable to Football League Interactive i.e. the rights holders.



As you know, TV rights are sold to broadcasters for exclusivity. Most people understand that the Premier League, The Football League and The FA sell these rights for commercial advancement. This means that fans need to subscribe to Sky TV or Setanta TV to watch live football. In the same way, the Leagues and The FA sell their radio rights. This means that the Premier League, The FA and The Football League each have different rules relating to radio rights. Relegation to The Football League unfortunately means that we are not permitted to offer free website streaming as we could in the Premier League.



Whilst we empathise with your situation, our sponsorship deal with BBC Radio London and BBC Radio Kent ensures that 90% of our fan-base (i.e. those fans that live in London and in Kent) have access to BBC commentaries via the radio.



Should we, as we all hope, obtain promotion back to The Premier League at the end of this season, the FLI system would become superfluous as we would then want to continue our commitment to providing free commentary via our website - a service that not many clubs currently offer.



I trust that this clarifies the situation for you.



Regards





Steve Sutherland
«1

Comments

  • nice reply and explains the situation well
  • Having now seen the costs and the subscription figures for Valley Vision it all makes a lot more sense.
  • Yes, but nobody needed to subscribe to Valley Vision because the Premiership coverage was broadcast all over the world whereas I would have happily coughed up 50 quid for a season of video from the CCC because you can't get much of it here in Oz.
  • Good point, well made.
  • hopefully Ormy if we can build up a strong enough International community on here, we'll be in a position where we can approach the club and try and work together on such projects to make them happen.
  • [cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]hopefully Ormy if we can build up a strong enough International community on here, we'll be in a position where we can approach the club and try and work together on such projects to make them happen.

    so it is all about trying to get as many overseas Addicks as poss. I know of a couple i will try to entice them in!
  • WSSWSS
    edited August 2007
    Wales doesnt count mate
  • What about the Republic of Cornwall?
    We've got our own language, national flag, anthem, capital city and patron saint.

    I have to take the ferry to England most days - when I'm working abroad. ;-)
  • I can understand the clubs point of view. However surely the easiest solution would be for BBC Radio London or Kent to ensure that the Charlton game is the one that they always broadcast over the net, rather than local radio.
    On Saturday we had to suffer listening to the Ebbsfleet game and they didn't even bother to inform us that Charlton had taken the lead.
    The Charlton game was being covered but we couldn't listen in because it was only broadcast on the radio.
    I might be wrong but I doubt there are that many Ebbsfleet fans around the world desperate to tune into the commentary!, so why on earth cover that match on the net?
  • That's the BBC for you - they have to make sure they are seen to be catering for minorities!
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  • [cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]I can understand the clubs point of view. However surely the easiest solution would be for BBC Radio London or Kent to ensure that the Charlton game is the one that they always broadcast over the net, rather than local radio.
    On Saturday we had to suffer listening to the Ebbsfleet game and they didn't even bother to inform us that Charlton had taken the lead.
    The Charlton game was being covered but we couldn't listen in because it was only broadcast on the radio.
    I might be wrong but I doubt there are that many Ebbsfleet fans around the world desperate to tune into the commentary!, so why on earth cover that match on the net?
    It's the internet/digital commentary rights that Premium TV have, hence the BBC broadcast on MW.
  • MW 774 it was broadcast on, which was virtually unlistenable to on the M25, A2 and in Charlton.
  • edited August 2007
    It's probably taken us all by surprise that the Football League has such a strict policy in place.

    I was expecting to pick up the Championship highlights from the South African sports channels we get on cable here but there have been changes here too. The main pay-TV entity this year purchased the exclusive rights to show the EPL in Thailand, whereas before it took its coverage from ESPN/Star. Part of the deal is that all the smaller cable stations have been forbidden to show the Premiership. It could be that they have been banned from showing any live football whatsoever as the French and Italian League games were also missing from the screen last weekend. My first thoughts were, 'No Premiership, maybe they'll show the televised Championship games.' I now doubt that.

    In a roundabout way I am saying I'm going to be soccer starved. I can't afford to take the monopoly service as I have 20-odd TVs in my guesthouses and the cable is cheap, the other service isn't. I'll go to a local bar for the better games but a fix of CAFC won't go amiss so , basically I'm saying count me in.
  • edited August 2007
    [cite]Posted By: F-Blocker[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]I can understand the clubs point of view. However surely the easiest solution would be for BBC Radio London or Kent to ensure that the Charlton game is the one that they always broadcast over the net, rather than local radio.
    On Saturday we had to suffer listening to the Ebbsfleet game and they didn't even bother to inform us that Charlton had taken the lead.
    The Charlton game was being covered but we couldn't listen in because it was only broadcast on the radio.
    I might be wrong but I doubt there are that many Ebbsfleet fans around the world desperate to tune into the commentary!, so why on earth cover that match on the net?
    It's the internet/digital commentary rights that Premium TV have, hence the BBC broadcast on MW.

    Radio Kent had commentary on the game on their digital station, and I presume this may be the case tonight.
  • Ive been in further contact with the club and here is their response....My second email is pasted below Steve Sutherlands reply....the "only 8 complaints bit I found rather condecending" I guess thats it for now...there isnt going to be any matches broadcast live overseas......

    Terry, yes, of course we make decisions based on financial implications to the company; doesn’t every business? Whilst in the Premier League you sometimes have the facility to be able to take a more altruistic approach; in the Football League you do not have so much flexibility.



    The answer is that we would need over 2,000 subscribers to break even. For your information I have received eight ‘complaints’ in total from overseas supporters. However, the consequence of us launching the subscription service would be that we would then also lose the sponsorship fee and support from BBC Radio London. As I have already stated, with over 90% of our fan-base able to receive Radio London and Radio Kent we are not prepared to compromise this very important relationship. In addition, if we go up to the PL at the end of the season we would not be able to get out of the FLi deal easily. Therefore we would not be able to revert to free radio commentary.



    Regards



    Steve Sutherland

    Commercial Director

    Charlton Athletic Football Club







    The Valley

    Floyd Road

    Charlton

    London

    SE7 8BL



    +44 208 333 4000 ( Main )

    +44 208 333 4006 ( Fax )




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Terry Hastings [mailto:terry@clickofamouse.co.uk]
    Sent: 14 August 2007 11:35
    To: Steve Sutherland
    Subject: Re: Website Streaming



    Steve

    Thank you for the reply. Its quite obvious that the grounds upon which the Club's decision was made, was purely financial. There are many International fans who feel somewhat let down by this decision. Can you tell me how many fans it would take to make live match commentary viable...if for instance we were charged the £34.99 you commented on in your email.



    As mentioned, we have already got 40 members in Australia and New Zealand.....I know there are many more out there along with fans based in Thailand, Singapore, Canada, USA and down in the Caribbean, not to mention the considerable interest in Zheng Zhi from China.



    The general feeling that Im getting back from members is very negative towards the club which is indeed unfortunate, however I feel this could be rectified by better communications between the club and the fan base in future. It was a big let down to be told that live match broadcasts were to be discontinued at such short notice.

    For many of us, the live broadcasts were a vital link with the club being based so far away....I and many others didnt miss a single game last season which shows our dedication as many matches didnt start until between midnight and 5am downunder.



    Please get back to me with numbers and I will see what the general consensus is amongst the many people that I know.



    Terry Hastings

    Addicks Downunder.
  • I got the same reply back from Steve Sutherland (to my first e-mail).

    As I see it there are only 2 solutions:

    1. We get enough overseas fans together to convince them that it's worth it.

    2. We somehow persuade BBC Radio Kent to broadcast us instead of bloody Ebbsfleet.


    I have one major question. If you need 2,000 fans to subscribe to break even, how comes all other 23 clubs do it? Do all these 23 clubs have 2,000 subscribers?

    I doubt it (although I've become a subscriber to Scunthorpe for a trial week!!!)
  • Following that last post I felt compelled to write this reply to S.S:


    Dear Mr Sutherland,

    I understand except for two points :

    1. How many subscribers do you need to break even?
    Why do all clubs in The Championship seem to think they’ll achieve this except Charlton?
    It is not a valid argument to make a comparison to Valley Vision. This was not necessary for overseas fans to subscribe to as in The Premiership they can access highlights, commentaries from all manner of other sources. In The Championship these fans are in a ‘dark media void.’

    2. What if we don’t go up? Are we going to be having this conversation again next season? At least then fans will be prepared. Couldn’t the club have warned fans more in advance?


    Yours Sincerely,

    David Target.
  • [cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]
    2. We somehow persuade BBC Radio Kent to broadcast us instead of bloody Ebbsfleet.
    Jimmy, FLi own the internet rights - that's why Ebbsfleet was on the web and Charlton was on medium wave. The BBC can't broadcast our games if they don't have the correct rights. :o(
  • Yet the club will happily sell me overseas what the fook I want from the club shop. I'm glad I held back on ordering the new shirt, in fact my semi-destroyed green and purple Viglen looks alot better these days. It's absolutely pisspoor from the club. I'm not impressed in the slightest, only up until 6 years ago my season-ticket money was going into the club year in, year out.
  • I know it's on a slightly different scale, but the sale of the internet commentary rights to FLi is exactly the same as the Prem selling the TV rights to Sky/Setanta. Those clubs promoted to the Prem this season had no input into the TV deal and just have to accept it and it's constraints. In exactly the same way, we've gone down to the Championship and must accept contracts that are aready in place.
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  • But that's the problem. If the club accepted it, we'd be able to get live commentaries.

    Instead we are denied on the premise that we're going up.
  • Apart from the short notice, I don't think you can blame the club for a second here. I'm upset (Living in Sheffield), as it was a routine for me and I never missed a commentary, but the guilty party here sounds like FLi - I certainly don't want an official site run by them.

    Technically, there are a few ways that someone who did live in a place where the commentary was broadcast could help the rest of us out (Perhaps not entirely in the spirit of the football league's commercial department though!). It's perhaps not a discussion for here though?
  • [cite]Posted By: WasCharleyOne[/cite]Yet the club will happily sell me overseas what the fook I want from the club shop. I'm glad I held back on ordering the new shirt, in fact my semi-destroyed green and purple Viglen looks alot better these days. It's absolutely pisspoor from the club. I'm not impressed in the slightest, only up until 6 years ago my season-ticket money was going into the club year in, year out.

    Spot on. They've pissed off 2 minority groups so far: The women's team & overseas fans. We've maybe been in The Premiership too long because everything's governed by money now.
  • [cite]Posted By: ianwild[/cite]Apart from the short notice, I don't think you can blame the club for a second here. I'm upset (Living in Sheffield), as it was a routine for me and I never missed a commentary, but the guilty party here sounds likeFLi- I certainly don't want an official site run by them.

    Technically, there are a few ways that someone who did live in a place where the commentary was broadcast could help the rest of us out (Perhaps not entirely in the spirit of the football league's commercial department though!). It's perhaps not a discussion for here though?


    Can't you get Radio London commentary on the internet in Sheffield?

    Why not have the official site run by FLi? Scunthorpe's is pretty good. I should know - I'm a new member!
  • good to see you giving it a go guys, but might be an idea in future that if you contact Steve, Peter etc, you mention that you're going to share their responses on here. Just out of curtesy.
  • AFKA, they sent the same reply to everyone - Mrs Weegie got an identical email - so I don't think there's too much lack of courtesy in sharing it on here.

    So as jimmymelrose says, they've alienated women and long-distance supporters...don't think the Mrs is too happy with them at the moment...
  • Its not good news .......

    My internet hasnt even arrived and Im getting edgy....

    On the plus side all the down under boys will be able to waych a rerun of us "as Live" on Sunday at 2pm.... Hooray.. cant wait .. were in Denim and Seahawk an all.....

    Come on you reds...

    Ps count me in for any inclusion of Addicks overseas/Downunder ... in ter4ms of numbers and such, Im very much in the 2am listening club..
  • Guy's, I've had an idea.
    Would it not be possible for some good fellow addick back in the UK to accidently leave a radio tuned to the commentary next to his computer microphone?
    Overseas addicks could then listen in via messenger, netmeeting or some similar program.
    I've never used such a program myself but have often though about setting it up to talk to the folks back home.
    I'm sure someone here, more tech savvy than myself could work out how to do it
  • I got the same reply - word for word.

    "Unfortunately, as we are not a Football League Interactive club (Premium TV), to set up this system would have required significant capital expenditure and staff resources that, following our relegation, we simply do not have."

    If the likes of Scunthorpe, Burnley, Colchester & Palace can provide this service for their fans - why the hell can't Charlton. It's a poor show & smacks of an "I'm alright jack attitude" - they can afford to pay primadonna stars tens of thousands a week, but can't be bothered to shell out what i guess is a paltry sum to support those not living in the immediate vicinity of the club.

    2000 subscribers my 'arris.
  • I would have gladly forked out 34.99 quid to get commentary and valley vision. Poor show from the club. Did anyone else subscribe to the Overseas Supporters Club? I paid 20 quid a couple of years ago and I got was a team pic and a subscription for the Red Card. I feel they are taking this budget cutting to an extreme and as people have pointed out have started to alienate us overseas fans.
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