Barney Ronay tried to have a go at the whiff of hypocrisy from our side, but that particular article got taken down quickly. Instead he seems to have laid the ball off to Marina Hyde who finishes with deadly Kane like precision.
Uncomfortable read, which is exactly why she wrote it.
Texts from my Bulgarian buddy in Sofia this morning. Some excerpts "I apologize for our racist public and congratulations for the score" after I replied, he writes back "Thank you that you understand that Bulgarian football hooligans do not represent the rest of Bulgarians but they still bring big shame for my country"
the thing is that this buddy, not the football mad one, has nevertheless been to a Charlton game with me. It was at the old Toolbox in Feb 1992. We could hardly put a team out and gave a debut to Jermain Darlington. He hardly touched the ball, and was subbed after 70 mins. He had to walk around three quarters of the perimeter and the whole Toolbox rose to acclaim him as he passed. Everyone, in every stand, they booed him because of the colour of his skin.
I was there and I didn't rise or boo. I have no doubt that he got some unwarranted and, ultimately, disgusting stick from the stands. However your disingenuity, in claiming that it was 'everyone, in every stand', would be akin to me claiming that every Charlton fan, including you, supported the actions of the 7 Charlton fans that were arrested for the singing of glorifying and idolising songs about the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
Having been involved in football policing in both domestic and European leagues UEFA aren’t the slightest bit interested in dealing with racism or any kind of intolerable behaviour by supporters. They will use token gestures and expect countries associations and police to deal with it. Thats fine for us, as we do try and are still trying. But I have seen first hand the collusion between clubs supporters, stewards and police who are quite happy for this to continue.
It will only ever change if our teams refuse to take part in matches/tournaments where there is clearly still a problem.
Barney Ronay tried to have a go at the whiff of hypocrisy from our side, but that particular article got taken down quickly. Instead he seems to have laid the ball off to Marina Hyde who finishes with deadly Kane like precision.
Uncomfortable read, which is exactly why she wrote it.
there are laws in the UK against abuse re race,relgion etc it is enforced ---- i have no idea if they have the same law in Bulgaria ,i doubt they do.Or maybe its there but appears low down on the legal agenda.
Barney Ronay tried to have a go at the whiff of hypocrisy from our side, but that particular article got taken down quickly. Instead he seems to have laid the ball off to Marina Hyde who finishes with deadly Kane like precision.
Uncomfortable read, which is exactly why she wrote it.
Nobody is claiming things are perfect in the UK - it's a bit tiresome trotting out this type of article whenever there is a problem abroad.
I think it is a good thing as we have to be alert to where we could be in danger of sanction going forwards. We may not be at risk through racist chants which is a very good thing, but we have to be careful at things that may be political too, especially if it is deemed offensive by others.
Texts from my Bulgarian buddy in Sofia this morning. Some excerpts "I apologize for our racist public and congratulations for the score" after I replied, he writes back "Thank you that you understand that Bulgarian football hooligans do not represent the rest of Bulgarians but they still bring big shame for my country"
the thing is that this buddy, not the football mad one, has nevertheless been to a Charlton game with me. It was at the old Toolbox in Feb 1992. We could hardly put a team out and gave a debut to Jermain Darlington. He hardly touched the ball, and was subbed after 70 mins. He had to walk around three quarters of the perimeter and the whole Toolbox rose to acclaim him as he passed. Everyone, in every stand, they booed him because of the colour of his skin.
I was there and I didn't rise or boo. I have no doubt that he got some unwarranted and, ultimately, disgusting stick from the stands. However your disingenuity, in claiming that it was 'everyone, in every stand', would be akin to me claiming that every Charlton fan, including you, supported the actions of the 7 Charlton fans that were arrested for the singing of glorifying and idolising songs about the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
Bully for you. If you were there, you could have no doubt. It was shocking, not because it was at the Toolbox, but that it was coming from all three sides. Even I thought - up til then - that such shit would only come from the PondLife End. The only time I have heard such a reception from all home sides of the ground for a subbed player at Charlton was when that piece of shit Muscat was subbed trying to play against us for Wolves.
Mind you I perhaps was technically incorrect in referring to the Toolbox, as this was, as I am sure you recall, before the time when Paphitis came along and declared Millwall to be a Family Club, only for the Spanner incident to happen a few weeks later. Coincidentally the Reading keeper on the day who was kindly donated the tool was Boris Mihailov. Yep, the same bloke who resigned this week as head of their FA. Hadn't realised that until just now, and not seen it mentioned anywhere in current coverage. Puts a slightly different shade on his comments about England pre-match....
Edit..sadly that isn't correct about Mihailov. The spanner was thrown in 1994, before he joined them. Damn. Guardian would have loved that. :-)
But its generally interesting that he played in England in the mid 90s
Texts from my Bulgarian buddy in Sofia this morning. Some excerpts "I apologize for our racist public and congratulations for the score" after I replied, he writes back "Thank you that you understand that Bulgarian football hooligans do not represent the rest of Bulgarians but they still bring big shame for my country"
the thing is that this buddy, not the football mad one, has nevertheless been to a Charlton game with me. It was at the old Toolbox in Feb 1992. We could hardly put a team out and gave a debut to Jermain Darlington. He hardly touched the ball, and was subbed after 70 mins. He had to walk around three quarters of the perimeter and the whole Toolbox rose to acclaim him as he passed. Everyone, in every stand, they booed him because of the colour of his skin.
I was there and I didn't rise or boo. I have no doubt that he got some unwarranted and, ultimately, disgusting stick from the stands. However your disingenuity, in claiming that it was 'everyone, in every stand', would be akin to me claiming that every Charlton fan, including you, supported the actions of the 7 Charlton fans that were arrested for the singing of glorifying and idolising songs about the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
Bully for you. If you were there, you could have no doubt. It was shocking, not because it was at the Toolbox, but that it was coming from all three sides. Even I thought - up til then - that such shit would only come from the PondLife End. The only time I have heard such a reception from all home sides of the ground for a subbed player at Charlton was when that piece of shit Muscat was subbed trying to play against us for Wolves.
Mind you I perhaps was technically incorrect in referring to the Toolbox, as this was, as I am sure you recall, before the time when Paphitis came along and declared Millwall to be a Family Club, only for the Spanner incident to happen a few weeks later. Coincidentally the Reading keeper on the day who was kindly donated the tool was Boris Mihailov. Yep, the same bloke who resigned this week as head of their FA. Hadn't realised that until just now, and not seen it mentioned anywhere in current coverage. Puts a slightly different shade on his comments about England pre-match....
Texts from my Bulgarian buddy in Sofia this morning. Some excerpts "I apologize for our racist public and congratulations for the score" after I replied, he writes back "Thank you that you understand that Bulgarian football hooligans do not represent the rest of Bulgarians but they still bring big shame for my country"
the thing is that this buddy, not the football mad one, has nevertheless been to a Charlton game with me. It was at the old Toolbox in Feb 1992. We could hardly put a team out and gave a debut to Jermain Darlington. He hardly touched the ball, and was subbed after 70 mins. He had to walk around three quarters of the perimeter and the whole Toolbox rose to acclaim him as he passed. Everyone, in every stand, they booed him because of the colour of his skin.
I was there and I didn't rise or boo. I have no doubt that he got some unwarranted and, ultimately, disgusting stick from the stands. However your disingenuity, in claiming that it was 'everyone, in every stand', would be akin to me claiming that every Charlton fan, including you, supported the actions of the 7 Charlton fans that were arrested for the singing of glorifying and idolising songs about the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
Bully for you. If you were there, you could have no doubt. It was shocking, not because it was at the Toolbox, but that it was coming from all three sides. Even I thought - up til then - that such shit would only come from the PondLife End. The only time I have heard such a reception from all home sides of the ground for a subbed player at Charlton was when that piece of shit Muscat was subbed trying to play against us for Wolves.
Mind you I perhaps was technically incorrect in referring to the Toolbox, as this was, as I am sure you recall, before the time when Paphitis came along and declared Millwall to be a Family Club, only for the Spanner incident to happen a few weeks later. Coincidentally the Reading keeper on the day who was kindly donated the tool was Boris Mihailov. Yep, the same bloke who resigned this week as head of their FA. Hadn't realised that until just now, and not seen it mentioned anywhere in current coverage. Puts a slightly different shade on his comments about England pre-match....
Hyperbole followed by a diversion.
Brilliant. You win.
Now from whom could I have possibly learnt such a tactic? :-)
PS see my edit above, Mihailov wasn't the victim of the second most notorious Spanner in football (no 1 is obviously Pat van den Hauwe)
Texts from my Bulgarian buddy in Sofia this morning. Some excerpts "I apologize for our racist public and congratulations for the score" after I replied, he writes back "Thank you that you understand that Bulgarian football hooligans do not represent the rest of Bulgarians but they still bring big shame for my country"
the thing is that this buddy, not the football mad one, has nevertheless been to a Charlton game with me. It was at the old Toolbox in Feb 1992. We could hardly put a team out and gave a debut to Jermain Darlington. He hardly touched the ball, and was subbed after 70 mins. He had to walk around three quarters of the perimeter and the whole Toolbox rose to acclaim him as he passed. Everyone, in every stand, they booed him because of the colour of his skin.
I was there and I didn't rise or boo. I have no doubt that he got some unwarranted and, ultimately, disgusting stick from the stands. However your disingenuity, in claiming that it was 'everyone, in every stand', would be akin to me claiming that every Charlton fan, including you, supported the actions of the 7 Charlton fans that were arrested for the singing of glorifying and idolising songs about the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
Bully for you. If you were there, you could have no doubt. It was shocking, not because it was at the Toolbox, but that it was coming from all three sides. Even I thought - up til then - that such shit would only come from the PondLife End. The only time I have heard such a reception from all home sides of the ground for a subbed player at Charlton was when that piece of shit Muscat was subbed trying to play against us for Wolves.
Mind you I perhaps was technically incorrect in referring to the Toolbox, as this was, as I am sure you recall, before the time when Paphitis came along and declared Millwall to be a Family Club, only for the Spanner incident to happen a few weeks later. Coincidentally the Reading keeper on the day who was kindly donated the tool was Boris Mihailov. Yep, the same bloke who resigned this week as head of their FA. Hadn't realised that until just now, and not seen it mentioned anywhere in current coverage. Puts a slightly different shade on his comments about England pre-match....
Hyperbole followed by a diversion.
Brilliant. You win.
Now from whom could I have possibly learnt such a tactic? :-)
PS see my edit above, Mihailov wasn't the victim of the second most notorious Spanner in football (no 1 is obviously Pat van den Hauwe)
Texts from my Bulgarian buddy in Sofia this morning. Some excerpts "I apologize for our racist public and congratulations for the score" after I replied, he writes back "Thank you that you understand that Bulgarian football hooligans do not represent the rest of Bulgarians but they still bring big shame for my country"
the thing is that this buddy, not the football mad one, has nevertheless been to a Charlton game with me. It was at the old Toolbox in Feb 1992. We could hardly put a team out and gave a debut to Jermain Darlington. He hardly touched the ball, and was subbed after 70 mins. He had to walk around three quarters of the perimeter and the whole Toolbox rose to acclaim him as he passed. Everyone, in every stand, they booed him because of the colour of his skin.
I was there and I didn't rise or boo. I have no doubt that he got some unwarranted and, ultimately, disgusting stick from the stands. However your disingenuity, in claiming that it was 'everyone, in every stand', would be akin to me claiming that every Charlton fan, including you, supported the actions of the 7 Charlton fans that were arrested for the singing of glorifying and idolising songs about the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
Bully for you. If you were there, you could have no doubt. It was shocking, not because it was at the Toolbox, but that it was coming from all three sides. Even I thought - up til then - that such shit would only come from the PondLife End. The only time I have heard such a reception from all home sides of the ground for a subbed player at Charlton was when that piece of shit Muscat was subbed trying to play against us for Wolves.
Mind you I perhaps was technically incorrect in referring to the Toolbox, as this was, as I am sure you recall, before the time when Paphitis came along and declared Millwall to be a Family Club, only for the Spanner incident to happen a few weeks later. Coincidentally the Reading keeper on the day who was kindly donated the tool was Boris Mihailov. Yep, the same bloke who resigned this week as head of their FA. Hadn't realised that until just now, and not seen it mentioned anywhere in current coverage. Puts a slightly different shade on his comments about England pre-match....
Hyperbole followed by a diversion.
Brilliant. You win.
Fallacy fallacy. Assuming that an argument is invalid because it's logically fallacious and making no other such rebuttal.
(However, I've not actually read the above, full disclaimer. So maybe the argument is invalid, but to dismiss out of hand like this is in itself an unconstructive way to go about things).
Texts from my Bulgarian buddy in Sofia this morning. Some excerpts "I apologize for our racist public and congratulations for the score" after I replied, he writes back "Thank you that you understand that Bulgarian football hooligans do not represent the rest of Bulgarians but they still bring big shame for my country"
the thing is that this buddy, not the football mad one, has nevertheless been to a Charlton game with me. It was at the old Toolbox in Feb 1992. We could hardly put a team out and gave a debut to Jermain Darlington. He hardly touched the ball, and was subbed after 70 mins. He had to walk around three quarters of the perimeter and the whole Toolbox rose to acclaim him as he passed. Everyone, in every stand, they booed him because of the colour of his skin.
I was there and I didn't rise or boo. I have no doubt that he got some unwarranted and, ultimately, disgusting stick from the stands. However your disingenuity, in claiming that it was 'everyone, in every stand', would be akin to me claiming that every Charlton fan, including you, supported the actions of the 7 Charlton fans that were arrested for the singing of glorifying and idolising songs about the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
Bully for you. If you were there, you could have no doubt. It was shocking, not because it was at the Toolbox, but that it was coming from all three sides. Even I thought - up til then - that such shit would only come from the PondLife End. The only time I have heard such a reception from all home sides of the ground for a subbed player at Charlton was when that piece of shit Muscat was subbed trying to play against us for Wolves.
Mind you I perhaps was technically incorrect in referring to the Toolbox, as this was, as I am sure you recall, before the time when Paphitis came along and declared Millwall to be a Family Club, only for the Spanner incident to happen a few weeks later. Coincidentally the Reading keeper on the day who was kindly donated the tool was Boris Mihailov. Yep, the same bloke who resigned this week as head of their FA. Hadn't realised that until just now, and not seen it mentioned anywhere in current coverage. Puts a slightly different shade on his comments about England pre-match....
Edit..sadly that isn't correct about Mihailov. The spanner was thrown in 1994, before he joined them. Damn. Guardian would have loved that. :-)
But its generally interesting that he played in England in the mid 90s
The spanner incident happened 3 years before Paphtis took charge
If there is one person who can really make the Bulgarians get a grip, its Hristo Stoichkov - him and Mihailov ( and Kishi) were teammates at Euro 96...
Have to say the way the government and Bulgarian FA has reacted....... whilst I suspect there is some pressure coming from UEFA and maybe even beyond, the response has been very decisive.
"Bulgaria have been ordered to play two matches behind closed doors - one suspended for two years
Bulgaria have also been fined 75,000 euros (£65,000) by Uefa."
Laughable really, especially considering they were already on a partial stadium ban for previous racist abuse.
So they have a stadium closure for a game that is meaningless anyway and get a tiny fine. Why is 1 game suspended for 2 years? Make them play their possible play off qualifier in an empty stadium too.
Comments
Uncomfortable read, which is exactly why she wrote it.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/oct/16/bulgaria-england-black-white-raheem-sterling-sofia?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I was there and I didn't rise or boo. I have no doubt that he got some unwarranted and, ultimately, disgusting stick from the stands. However your disingenuity, in claiming that it was 'everyone, in every stand', would be akin to me claiming that every Charlton fan, including you, supported the actions of the 7 Charlton fans that were arrested for the singing of glorifying and idolising songs about the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
Thats fine for us, as we do try and are still trying.
But I have seen first hand the collusion between clubs supporters, stewards and police who are quite happy for this to continue.
It will only ever change if our teams refuse to take part in matches/tournaments where there is clearly still a problem.
Can’t see that happening, any time soon.
Mind you I perhaps was technically incorrect in referring to the Toolbox, as this was, as I am sure you recall, before the time when Paphitis came along and declared Millwall to be a Family Club, only for the Spanner incident to happen a few weeks later. Coincidentally the Reading keeper on the day who was kindly donated the tool was Boris Mihailov. Yep, the same bloke who resigned this week as head of their FA. Hadn't realised that until just now, and not seen it mentioned anywhere in current coverage. Puts a slightly different shade on his comments about England pre-match....
Edit..sadly that isn't correct about Mihailov. The spanner was thrown in 1994, before he joined them. Damn. Guardian would have loved that. :-)
But its generally interesting that he played in England in the mid 90s
Brilliant. You win.
Bulgaria v England: Police arrest six following racist abuse at Euro qualifier
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50066016
PS see my edit above, Mihailov wasn't the victim of the second most notorious Spanner in football (no 1 is obviously Pat van den Hauwe)
Nope, not doing it. You've won.
(However, I've not actually read the above, full disclaimer. So maybe the argument is invalid, but to dismiss out of hand like this is in itself an unconstructive way to go about things).
NOT!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50212951
Punishment as expected really.
Bulgaria have also been fined 75,000 euros (£65,000) by Uefa."
Laughable really, especially considering they were already on a partial stadium ban for previous racist abuse.
So they have a stadium closure for a game that is meaningless anyway and get a tiny fine. Why is 1 game suspended for 2 years? Make them play their possible play off qualifier in an empty stadium too.
The FA’s usual spineless response is a disgrace too.
Money > all