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Ableton Live and Push 2

I would love to know whether anyone has any experience using the Ableton Push 2 and has any views on it.  And if anyone has used Ableton Live 9 or 10 - or any other DAW - and can share thoughts, that would be interesting too.  

And, if you have no idea what this is, please feel free to move swiftly on..! 
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Comments

  • They all pretty much to the same things. Normally comes down to preference and hardware. Bit old school, but I always liked the m-box 1 with pro-tools, superb focusrite pre-amps. Started off with cubase, moved on to logic when I got a mac.
    I never liked Ableton, I found the wave editor really annoying.

    If you can use one, then you'll pick up other fairly quickly. The only exception I found was fruity loops, could never get my head around that.

    Additionally I have had issues with some external sound cards functioning with Windows 10. It would appear older models have pulled support.
  • PopIcon said:
    They all pretty much to the same things. Normally comes down to preference and hardware. Bit old school, but I always liked the m-box 1 with pro-tools, superb focusrite pre-amps. Started off with cubase, moved on to logic when I got a mac.
    I never liked Ableton, I found the wave editor really annoying.

    If you can use one, then you'll pick up other fairly quickly. The only exception I found was fruity loops, could never get my head around that.

    Additionally I have had issues with some external sound cards functioning with Windows 10. It would appear older models have pulled support.
    Have you used the Push 2?  Or have any views on it?
  • No idea what push 2 is...
    Got Cubase and Reaper, using Reaper mainly for its simplicity, and excellent YouTube tutorials. Also most of my work is acoustic and I've integrated Reaper with Sibelius (scoring) which is a must for me. Reaper does have scoring option but nothing like Sibelius.
  • Push 2 is so limited, call me old fashioned but Cubase is still the market leader IMO. I have heard though from a mate in the industry that the new Dutch Clobber system due out in 2020 is going to blow the whole scene to another level. 
  • I prefer their earlier stuff
  • Never really got on with Ableton. I use Maschine in the main and Fruity Loops as a daw
  • Chizz said:
    PopIcon said:
    They all pretty much to the same things. Normally comes down to preference and hardware. Bit old school, but I always liked the m-box 1 with pro-tools, superb focusrite pre-amps. Started off with cubase, moved on to logic when I got a mac.
    I never liked Ableton, I found the wave editor really annoying.

    If you can use one, then you'll pick up other fairly quickly. The only exception I found was fruity loops, could never get my head around that.

    Additionally I have had issues with some external sound cards functioning with Windows 10. It would appear older models have pulled support.
    Have you used the Push 2?  Or have any views on it?
    It looks like Novations Launchpad. What is it you want to achieve? I've got an old(ish) Native Instrument keyboard and it does everything I need.
  • Gonna sound like the the complete no nothing that Iam, but do you need to actually know how to play an instrument to use any of these programs......Im a frustrated musician inside.....got all these tunes running around in my head but no way of playing them....or is that just madness? :)
  • TEL said:
    Gonna sound like the the complete no nothing that Iam, but do you need to actually know how to play an instrument to use any of these programs......Im a frustrated musician inside.....got all these tunes running around in my head but no way of playing them....or is that just madness? :)
    Nah not really. I have great fun with it and my playing ability amounts to playing the recorder in primary school.
  • jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    Gonna sound like the the complete no nothing that Iam, but do you need to actually know how to play an instrument to use any of these programs......Im a frustrated musician inside.....got all these tunes running around in my head but no way of playing them....or is that just madness? :)
    Nah not really. I have great fun with it and my playing ability amounts to playing the recorder in primary school.
    Which would be best for an absolute beginner?
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  • TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    Gonna sound like the the complete no nothing that Iam, but do you need to actually know how to play an instrument to use any of these programs......Im a frustrated musician inside.....got all these tunes running around in my head but no way of playing them....or is that just madness? :)
    Nah not really. I have great fun with it and my playing ability amounts to playing the recorder in primary school.
    Which would be best for an absolute beginner?
    Bare in mind you still need to learn how to use the software. Would be easier to learn the cigar box guitar. You'll be writing and playing songs in a day.
  • I use Cubase

    and for fun Korg Gadget on the iPad / iPhone. I totally love it. Although, drives my wife insane. Makes hour long journeys last minutes. Bit crap if you want to hook a guitar / your voice up to it.

    i was given a copy of Ableton Live (the cheap version might be called Live lite) and it was easy to use probably easier than Cubase if you’re not used to Cubase. I get the impression Ableton Live is more ‘dance’ oriented. Never used Push.


  • TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    Gonna sound like the the complete no nothing that Iam, but do you need to actually know how to play an instrument to use any of these programs......Im a frustrated musician inside.....got all these tunes running around in my head but no way of playing them....or is that just madness? :)
    Nah not really. I have great fun with it and my playing ability amounts to playing the recorder in primary school.
    Which would be best for an absolute beginner?

    It's pretty hard to say. Depends what sort of music you're into and whether or not you find a particular software easy to use. I mess about with electronic/dance stuff and found fruity loops pretty easy to pick up but struggled with Ableton and a few others I tried.  Most have free trials/demo versions so you can see if you get on with them or not.

    If you're into electronic music in any form I highly recommend looking into maschine. The software comes with it is specifically made for it so as a beginner you wouldn't need anything else for a while

    https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/maschine/production-systems/

  • Mixcraft 8 is brilliant. Things are where you expect them to be. Incredibly intuitive. Plus comes with so many Vstis. Download and get a months absolutely free trial. There is a forum where the guys that design it answer questions and give advice. If you use a daw it's well worth checking out. It's inexpensive too.

  • Vinnie V. said:
    Mixcraft 8 is brilliant. Things are where you expect them to be. Incredibly intuitive. Plus comes with so many Vstis. Download and get a months absolutely free trial. There is a forum where the guys that design it answer questions and give advice. If you use a daw it's well worth checking out. It's inexpensive too.

    Roughly what sort of cost is the paid-for version? 
  • Riviera said:
    Push 2 is so limited, call me old fashioned but Cubase is still the market leader IMO. I have heard though from a mate in the industry that the new Dutch Clobber system due out in 2020 is going to blow the whole scene to another level. 
    Can you share any more info on that?
  • As mentioned above all DAWs can get you to the same outcomes - it makes sense to play around with a few and see which is best-suited to what you want to do.

    I've settled on Reaper - I find it really simple for recording, manipulating and re-routing audio from my hardware instruments, so does the trick for me. It has a very generous trial policy. 
  • You also need to consider the type of computer you want/need to run it on.
  • milo said:
    You also need to consider the type of computer you want/need to run it on.
    Assuming it's a PC, what would be the specs you would recommend? 
  • edited July 12
    All I know is that preferably you want one with solid state drive (Though mine isn't and works fine for my needs) and as much Ram as you can get. Still, a friend of mine was once asked by a technician  over the phone what kind of computer he had. "A beige one..." 
  • Sponsored links:


  • Chizz said:
    milo said:
    You also need to consider the type of computer you want/need to run it on.
    Assuming it's a PC, what would be the specs you would recommend? 

     

    Well it’s like anything where men get involved and for a few pounds more you can get a better and better set up.  Before you know it you’ve spent a hypothetical £3k, so I had to rein things in a little. Most recently I bought a laptop so I can take it out and about and used a company that will build it to your spec rather than get something off the shelf or try to build it myself. 

     

    There’s also a whole Apple vs PC argument that rages on, no doubt someone will add it to this thread.  Someone I know brought a top of the range Apple desktop off the shelf and it works fine running Cubase, although cost double what I paid.  I always associated Apple with running Logic Pro/Notator (which I’ve never used) so have never gone down that route but there are people out there that snigger at you condescendingly if you’re not using a Mac.  I’ve been using a PC since the 90s (and an Atari prior to this), I’m old enough to remember using Steinberg Pro24 prior to Cubase.

     

    I’ve just dug out the confirmation email for the (17 inch) laptop I brought and this is the spec:

    Intel Core i7 8750H "Coffee Lake", 16GB DDR4, 4GB NVIDIA GTX 1050 Ti, SAMSUNG 250GB 970 EVO M.2  SSD, WD5000LPLX 2.5 SATA HDD. 

    And then you have to decide whether you want USB 3 / USB C / Thunderbolt – to be honest a lot of this is beyond me and I just took advice of others.

    It cost about £1250 a year ago.  It works fine running Cubase for what I want to do (which is to dickabout making obscure music to send to my weird friends) but I don’t play about with massive banks of samples, etc.  Things move on very quickly and you can probably get a lot more for your money now.  I probably could have spent less but as a mid-life crisis purchase it was cheaper than a Harley-Davidson.

     

    The company I used are called Scan

    https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/daw-digital-audio-workstation-pcs

     

    There are probably other, cheaper, better options about (and obviously building it yourself would save even more money) but they came recommended to me and I’m happy with what I’ve got.

     

    There are also a lot more informed people out there than me, on music production Forums, who could give you better advice and there's lots of advice freely available on the internet.

     

     


  • jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    Gonna sound like the the complete no nothing that Iam, but do you need to actually know how to play an instrument to use any of these programs......Im a frustrated musician inside.....got all these tunes running around in my head but no way of playing them....or is that just madness? :)
    Nah not really. I have great fun with it and my playing ability amounts to playing the recorder in primary school.
    Which would be best for an absolute beginner?

    It's pretty hard to say. Depends what sort of music you're into and whether or not you find a particular software easy to use. I mess about with electronic/dance stuff and found fruity loops pretty easy to pick up but struggled with Ableton and a few others I tried.  Most have free trials/demo versions so you can see if you get on with them or not.

    If you're into electronic music in any form I highly recommend looking into maschine. The software comes with it is specifically made for it so as a beginner you wouldn't need anything else for a while

    https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/maschine/production-systems/

    Going to give this a try, we have a couple of Mac's here a desktop and my new Mac Book air.....I guess the 27 inch screen on the Mac will be better?
  • TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    Gonna sound like the the complete no nothing that Iam, but do you need to actually know how to play an instrument to use any of these programs......Im a frustrated musician inside.....got all these tunes running around in my head but no way of playing them....or is that just madness? :)
    Nah not really. I have great fun with it and my playing ability amounts to playing the recorder in primary school.
    Which would be best for an absolute beginner?

    It's pretty hard to say. Depends what sort of music you're into and whether or not you find a particular software easy to use. I mess about with electronic/dance stuff and found fruity loops pretty easy to pick up but struggled with Ableton and a few others I tried.  Most have free trials/demo versions so you can see if you get on with them or not.

    If you're into electronic music in any form I highly recommend looking into maschine. The software comes with it is specifically made for it so as a beginner you wouldn't need anything else for a while

    https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/maschine/production-systems/

    Going to give this a try, we have a couple of Mac's here a desktop and my new Mac Book air.....I guess the 27 inch screen on the Mac will be better?
    If you have a mac, have you had a play on Garage band? Free to download from the app store and has plenty for a beginner. You'd need to get yourself a USB connectable music keyboard to get the best out of it. 
  • milo said:
    Chizz said:
    milo said:
    You also need to consider the type of computer you want/need to run it on.
    Assuming it's a PC, what would be the specs you would recommend? 

     

    Well it’s like anything where men get involved and for a few pounds more you can get a better and better set up.  Before you know it you’ve spent a hypothetical £3k, so I had to rein things in a little. Most recently I bought a laptop so I can take it out and about and used a company that will build it to your spec rather than get something off the shelf or try to build it myself. 

     

    There’s also a whole Apple vs PC argument that rages on, no doubt someone will add it to this thread.  Someone I know brought a top of the range Apple desktop off the shelf and it works fine running Cubase, although cost double what I paid.  I always associated Apple with running Logic Pro/Notator (which I’ve never used) so have never gone down that route but there are people out there that snigger at you condescendingly if you’re not using a Mac.  I’ve been using a PC since the 90s (and an Atari prior to this), I’m old enough to remember using Steinberg Pro24 prior to Cubase.

     

    I’ve just dug out the confirmation email for the (17 inch) laptop I brought and this is the spec:

    Intel Core i7 8750H "Coffee Lake", 16GB DDR4, 4GB NVIDIA GTX 1050 Ti, SAMSUNG 250GB 970 EVO M.2  SSD, WD5000LPLX 2.5 SATA HDD. 

    And then you have to decide whether you want USB 3 / USB C / Thunderbolt – to be honest a lot of this is beyond me and I just took advice of others.

    It cost about £1250 a year ago.  It works fine running Cubase for what I want to do (which is to dickabout making obscure music to send to my weird friends) but I don’t play about with massive banks of samples, etc.  Things move on very quickly and you can probably get a lot more for your money now.  I probably could have spent less but as a mid-life crisis purchase it was cheaper than a Harley-Davidson.

     

    The company I used are called Scan

    https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/daw-digital-audio-workstation-pcs

     

    There are probably other, cheaper, better options about (and obviously building it yourself would save even more money) but they came recommended to me and I’m happy with what I’ve got.

     

    There are also a lot more informed people out there than me, on music production Forums, who could give you better advice and there's lots of advice freely available on the internet.

     

     


    Thanks, this is really interesting and useful.  Do you find a 17" screen is big enough and offers enough resolution?  I will probably run a DAW on a desktop, so I might get a bigger screen than I would usually have on a laptop.
  • TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    Gonna sound like the the complete no nothing that Iam, but do you need to actually know how to play an instrument to use any of these programs......Im a frustrated musician inside.....got all these tunes running around in my head but no way of playing them....or is that just madness? :)
    Nah not really. I have great fun with it and my playing ability amounts to playing the recorder in primary school.
    Which would be best for an absolute beginner?

    It's pretty hard to say. Depends what sort of music you're into and whether or not you find a particular software easy to use. I mess about with electronic/dance stuff and found fruity loops pretty easy to pick up but struggled with Ableton and a few others I tried.  Most have free trials/demo versions so you can see if you get on with them or not.

    If you're into electronic music in any form I highly recommend looking into maschine. The software comes with it is specifically made for it so as a beginner you wouldn't need anything else for a while

    https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/maschine/production-systems/

    Going to give this a try, we have a couple of Mac's here a desktop and my new Mac Book air.....I guess the 27 inch screen on the Mac will be better?
    If you have a mac, have you had a play on Garage band? Free to download from the app store and has plenty for a beginner. You'd need to get yourself a USB connectable music keyboard to get the best out of it. 
    I havent tried it to be honest, I need to vest some time into trying these things out....dont you ned to be able to play the keyboard for this version though?
  • TEL said:
    TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    Gonna sound like the the complete no nothing that Iam, but do you need to actually know how to play an instrument to use any of these programs......Im a frustrated musician inside.....got all these tunes running around in my head but no way of playing them....or is that just madness? :)
    Nah not really. I have great fun with it and my playing ability amounts to playing the recorder in primary school.
    Which would be best for an absolute beginner?

    It's pretty hard to say. Depends what sort of music you're into and whether or not you find a particular software easy to use. I mess about with electronic/dance stuff and found fruity loops pretty easy to pick up but struggled with Ableton and a few others I tried.  Most have free trials/demo versions so you can see if you get on with them or not.

    If you're into electronic music in any form I highly recommend looking into maschine. The software comes with it is specifically made for it so as a beginner you wouldn't need anything else for a while

    https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/maschine/production-systems/

    Going to give this a try, we have a couple of Mac's here a desktop and my new Mac Book air.....I guess the 27 inch screen on the Mac will be better?
    If you have a mac, have you had a play on Garage band? Free to download from the app store and has plenty for a beginner. You'd need to get yourself a USB connectable music keyboard to get the best out of it. 
    I havent tried it to be honest, I need to vest some time into trying these things out....dont you ned to be able to play the keyboard for this version though?
    It depends what you want to do. Garageband has 1000s of loops that you can drag into a window and arrange as you want with your mouse to create a track. The loops are pre-recorded riffs etc. So the creative bit is you arranging them how you want them. 

    It also has numerous virtual instrument sounds that are decent quality and you can download extra ones. You can then play the particular instrument sound you want through the music keyboard. For the drums, the different keys of the keyboard will play different parts of the drum kit. So even if you can only play the keyboard with one finger you can quickly make yourself multiple layers of a track.

    You can also record audio on top. So if you make a decent backing track and want to add a real instrument /voice to it then you can.

    It's very easy to use. 
  • Chizz said:
    milo said:
    Chizz said:
    milo said:
    You also need to consider the type of computer you want/need to run it on.
    Assuming it's a PC, what would be the specs you would recommend? 

     

    Well it’s like anything where men get involved and for a few pounds more you can get a better and better set up.  Before you know it you’ve spent a hypothetical £3k, so I had to rein things in a little. Most recently I bought a laptop so I can take it out and about and used a company that will build it to your spec rather than get something off the shelf or try to build it myself. 

     

    There’s also a whole Apple vs PC argument that rages on, no doubt someone will add it to this thread.  Someone I know brought a top of the range Apple desktop off the shelf and it works fine running Cubase, although cost double what I paid.  I always associated Apple with running Logic Pro/Notator (which I’ve never used) so have never gone down that route but there are people out there that snigger at you condescendingly if you’re not using a Mac.  I’ve been using a PC since the 90s (and an Atari prior to this), I’m old enough to remember using Steinberg Pro24 prior to Cubase.

     

    I’ve just dug out the confirmation email for the (17 inch) laptop I brought and this is the spec:

    Intel Core i7 8750H "Coffee Lake", 16GB DDR4, 4GB NVIDIA GTX 1050 Ti, SAMSUNG 250GB 970 EVO M.2  SSD, WD5000LPLX 2.5 SATA HDD. 

    And then you have to decide whether you want USB 3 / USB C / Thunderbolt – to be honest a lot of this is beyond me and I just took advice of others.

    It cost about £1250 a year ago.  It works fine running Cubase for what I want to do (which is to dickabout making obscure music to send to my weird friends) but I don’t play about with massive banks of samples, etc.  Things move on very quickly and you can probably get a lot more for your money now.  I probably could have spent less but as a mid-life crisis purchase it was cheaper than a Harley-Davidson.

     

    The company I used are called Scan

    https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/daw-digital-audio-workstation-pcs

     

    There are probably other, cheaper, better options about (and obviously building it yourself would save even more money) but they came recommended to me and I’m happy with what I’ve got.

     

    There are also a lot more informed people out there than me, on music production Forums, who could give you better advice and there's lots of advice freely available on the internet.

     

     


    Thanks, this is really interesting and useful.  Do you find a 17" screen is big enough and offers enough resolution?  I will probably run a DAW on a desktop, so I might get a bigger screen than I would usually have on a laptop.
    Yes, the bigger and the better and higher resolution the screen or using multiple monitors is better.  That way you can have your mixing desk open in one window, instruments open in another and so on and see them all at once.  There's a lot of messing about with a laptop, closing one window to open another, you can live with a small screen if you're doing something portable but I plug it in to a large monitor when I am at home.  Ideally I would like more monitors, but I have to draw the line on what really is a hobby.  

    You also need to consider where you put these screens because they can block the sound coming from your speakers.  Although studio design is a whole different subject, which if you are interested in, I would recommend the opening chapters of this book:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mixing-Secrets-Small-Studio-Presents/dp/1138556378/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=music+studio&qid=1562943566&s=books&sr=1-1



  • My first setup was a single core PC, a knocked off version of Cubase, a £75 PCI soundcard and a Singstar microphone. I could only do about four tracks before having to bounce down and If I was lucky I'd be able to get two plugins going, The microphone sounded terrible, but without doubt it was the most fun I had recording. By the time I got on to using a Mac and Logic the rawness had gone, sometimes having those additional tools are a burden as you are constantly trying to polish the music.
  • PopIcon said:
    My first setup was a single core PC, a knocked off version of Cubase, a £75 PCI soundcard and a Singstar microphone. I could only do about four tracks before having to bounce down and If I was lucky I'd be able to get two plugins going, The microphone sounded terrible, but without doubt it was the most fun I had recording. By the time I got on to using a Mac and Logic the rawness had gone, sometimes having those additional tools are a burden as you are constantly trying to polish the music.

     

    I agree,  I had an old PC with a moody version of Cubase, an old Emu sampler that you had to load up with three and a quarter inch discs, I remember spending hours moving a single dial on a novation bass-station to find the ‘perfect’ sound.  Several keyboards daisy-chained through numerous midi-leads, which I’d have to unplug and move around to reduce latency.  I can probably get better sounds out of my iPhone now. 

     

    It was a lot of fun in the good old days but I got nothing constructive done in my life – career wise, education, self-betterment for about two years because I was sat fannying about on Cubase thinking I was creating high-art.

     


  • TEL said:
    TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    jac52 said:
    TEL said:
    Gonna sound like the the complete no nothing that Iam, but do you need to actually know how to play an instrument to use any of these programs......Im a frustrated musician inside.....got all these tunes running around in my head but no way of playing them....or is that just madness? :)
    Nah not really. I have great fun with it and my playing ability amounts to playing the recorder in primary school.
    Which would be best for an absolute beginner?

    It's pretty hard to say. Depends what sort of music you're into and whether or not you find a particular software easy to use. I mess about with electronic/dance stuff and found fruity loops pretty easy to pick up but struggled with Ableton and a few others I tried.  Most have free trials/demo versions so you can see if you get on with them or not.

    If you're into electronic music in any form I highly recommend looking into maschine. The software comes with it is specifically made for it so as a beginner you wouldn't need anything else for a while

    https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/maschine/production-systems/

    Going to give this a try, we have a couple of Mac's here a desktop and my new Mac Book air.....I guess the 27 inch screen on the Mac will be better?
    If you have a mac, have you had a play on Garage band? Free to download from the app store and has plenty for a beginner. You'd need to get yourself a USB connectable music keyboard to get the best out of it. 
    I havent tried it to be honest, I need to vest some time into trying these things out....dont you ned to be able to play the keyboard for this version though?
    It depends what you want to do. Garageband has 1000s of loops that you can drag into a window and arrange as you want with your mouse to create a track. The loops are pre-recorded riffs etc. So the creative bit is you arranging them how you want them. 

    It also has numerous virtual instrument sounds that are decent quality and you can download extra ones. You can then play the particular instrument sound you want through the music keyboard. For the drums, the different keys of the keyboard will play different parts of the drum kit. So even if you can only play the keyboard with one finger you can quickly make yourself multiple layers of a track.

    You can also record audio on top. So if you make a decent backing track and want to add a real instrument /voice to it then you can.

    It's very easy to use. 
    Thank you for the detailed explanation, I will have a look at it. Im into electronic music in the main. I'll let you know how I get on with it.
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