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New VOTV149 - February 2019

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  • You’re only saying that because you want to sell a fanzine.
  • Good read, though. I don't know where else you will find such a detailed, withering, accurate criticism of the Duchatelet regime. Which is kind of worrying, really. 
  • edited February 9
    Good read, though. I don't know where else you will find such a detailed, withering, accurate criticism of the Duchatelet regime. Which is kind of worrying, really. 
    Can you find me a Charlton owner, in say the last 40 years, that you couldn't write a detailed, withering, accurate criticism of? I can think of 1 and a half out of about 7.
  • Isn't Peter Varney's son called Alex rather than Stacy?
  • LenGlover said:
    Isn't Peter Varney's son called Alex rather than Stacy?
    Yes, I should have picked that up when I subbed it. Confusion with Stacy Long, I assume. 
  • No but 

    1) he hasn't allowed the ground to get into such a bad state that part of it can't get a safety certificate 
    2) he hasn't bankrupted us on the basis that a ship full of rubber will turn up any day now
    3) hasn't moved us to selhurst park
    4) he hasn't written cheques he can't pay

    My point is that even the 1.5, that it appears we agree on, couldn't even financially bank roll a league 1 club, now. If RM hadn't sold to the spivs we would almost certainly got relegated, either that season or the next. The same as when they sold to RD. 

    The same maybe true if RD doesn't sell before June, or it may not, without someone prepared to spend tens of millions, of their own money, we won't get a good owner. 
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    No but 

    1) he hasn't allowed the ground to get into such a bad state that part of it can't get a safety certificate 
    2) he hasn't bankrupted us on the basis that a ship full of rubber will turn up any day now
    3) hasn't moved us to selhurst park
    4) he hasn't written cheques he can't pay

    My point is that even the 1.5, that it appears we agree on, couldn't even financially bank roll a league 1 club, now. If RM hadn't sold to the spivs we would almost certainly got relegated, either that season or the next. The same as when they sold to RD. 

    The same maybe true if RD doesn't sell before June, or it may not, without someone prepared to spend tens of millions, of their own money, we won't get a good owner. 
    Shhhh, don't give him any ideas.
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  • edited February 12
    Cafc43v3r said:
    No but 

    1) he hasn't allowed the ground to get into such a bad state that part of it can't get a safety certificate 
    2) he hasn't bankrupted us on the basis that a ship full of rubber will turn up any day now
    3) hasn't moved us to selhurst park
    4) he hasn't written cheques he can't pay

    My point is that even the 1.5, that it appears we agree on, couldn't even financially bank roll a league 1 club, now. If RM hadn't sold to the spivs we would almost certainly got relegated, either that season or the next. The same as when they sold to RD. 

    The same maybe true if RD doesn't sell before June, or it may not, without someone prepared to spend tens of millions, of their own money, we won't get a good owner. 
    None of which opportunities were available to him. But while all previous regimes lacked the money to fulfil the fans’ ambitions, this owner had no interest in them and has used the resources he does have to engage in the catastrophic destruction of the club’s performance, reputation and spirt because he couldn’t care less, because he lacks basic human qualities that would inevitably have put him on a different course and because he was able to call on a handful of gutless weasels to stand and applaud while he did it.

    It may be possible to find a worse owner than Duchatelet but his actions, inactions, arrogance and stupidity will damn him to hell for all the history of this club and anybody who imagines otherwise is clearly delusional themselves.
    Very well put, my "dog in this fight" isn't RD, far from it, my "dog" is the assumption that any new owner would be better.

    It's a big, common assumption, on here that a new owner will a) sign the out of contract players then b) pay for more players.  Its more likely that we will get an owner that tries to break even. There is no reference point in history that suggests we will get the owner we want or "deserve".  Maybe we are all paying the price for the expectation the RM area gave us? 
  • I agree with everything Airman and oohaah Mortimer say about Duchatelet. 
    The horror stories of his tenure at Standard Liege that my son told me about the day he took over at cafc and how after finishing top of the League he sold the best five players with financial benefits to himself in some cases.
    But other than Richard Murray Part 1, or Roger Alwen and co who just stopped this club dying, the Glikstens were shocking owners. By the time the brothers passed the club over to Michael Gilksten he didn't give a toss other than selling any decent players we had. I thought he lived in Australia ?

    Duchatelet is the guy killing OUR club now.
    BUT to move the club ten miles away instead of upgrading the valley at the time of John Fryer/ Jimmy Hill showed a total lack of understanding of supporters needs.

    Which brings us full circle back to Duchatelet. A man so lacking in empathy he may be on the Autistic spectrum.
    (Not totally flippant as I have studied the subject)


  • edited February 10
    I agree with everything Airman and oohaah Mortimer say about Duchatelet. 
    The horror stories of his tenure at Standard Liege that my son told me about the day he took over at cafc and how after finishing top of the League he sold the best five players with financial benefits to himself in some cases.
    But other than Richard Murray Part 1, or Roger Alwen and co who just stopped this club dying, the Glikstens were shocking owners. By the time the brothers passed the club over to Michael Gilksten he didn't give a toss other than selling any decent players we had. I thought he lived in Australia ?

    Duchatelet is the guy killing OUR club now.
    BUT to move the club ten miles away instead of upgrading the valley at the time of John Fryer/ Jimmy Hill showed a total lack of understanding of supporters needs.

    Which brings us full circle back to Duchatelet. A man so lacking in empathy he may be on the Autistic spectrum.
    (Not totally flippant as I have studied the subject)


    I’m not particularly defending either Michael Gliksten or John Fryer, but I think Michael Gliksten was a more complex character than the caricature often painted of him and has to be seen in the context of the often incompetent patrician ownership of clubs generally at the time. There’s no doubt he had genuine affection for the club, as people who knew him well will tell you. He was tight-fisted and became disillusioned but I don’t believe his sole purpose was ever to sell players - that was simply a product of his financial approach.

    Fryer enabled the club to be saved in 1984 and funded promotion to the top flight after 29 years. Even the move to Selhurst has a context, which is Heysel, Bradford, the separation of ownership of club and ground which could not be reunited by him, given his background, and half a century of neglect which wasn’t unique in English football, although it was extreme.
  • edited February 12
    Cafc43v3r said:
    No but 

    1) he hasn't allowed the ground to get into such a bad state that part of it can't get a safety certificate 
    2) he hasn't bankrupted us on the basis that a ship full of rubber will turn up any day now
    3) hasn't moved us to selhurst park
    4) he hasn't written cheques he can't pay

    My point is that even the 1.5, that it appears we agree on, couldn't even financially bank roll a league 1 club, now. If RM hadn't sold to the spivs we would almost certainly got relegated, either that season or the next. The same as when they sold to RD. 

    The same maybe true if RD doesn't sell before June, or it may not, without someone prepared to spend tens of millions, of their own money, we won't get a good owner. 
    None of which opportunities were available to him. But while all previous regimes lacked the money to fulfil the fans’ ambitions, this owner had no interest in them and has used the resources he does have to engage in the catastrophic destruction of the club’s performance, reputation and spirt because he couldn’t care less, because he lacks basic human qualities that would inevitably have put him on a different course and because he was able to call on a handful of gutless weasels to stand and applaud while he did it.

    It may be possible to find a worse owner than Duchatelet but his actions, inactions, arrogance and stupidity will damn him to hell for all the history of this club and anybody who imagines otherwise is clearly delusional themselves.
    Very well put, my "dog in this fight" isn't RD, far from it, my "dog" is the assumption that any new owner would be better.

    It's a big, common assumption, on here that a new owner will a) sign the out of contract players then b) pay for more players.  Its more likely that we will get an owner that tries to break even. There is no reference point in history that suggests we will get the owner we want or "deserve".  Maybe we are all paying the price for the expectation the RM area gave us?  The original point said nothing about the next owner but in any event it’s a bit patronising to imply that you are one of the few who sees risks in the future. The fact remains that the club needs a new owner because the current one is poison. As he has just demonstrated, again, he isn’t going to change. We don’t get a veto over future owners so that risk must be embraced, which is why there’s no point banging on about it at this stage. And in fact it is counter-productive if a new owner isn’t welcomed just for not being Duchatelet, because he so utterly useless.

    There is no break even position outside the Premier League. Anyone who understands the accounts will realise that.
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    No but 

    1) he hasn't allowed the ground to get into such a bad state that part of it can't get a safety certificate 
    2) he hasn't bankrupted us on the basis that a ship full of rubber will turn up any day now
    3) hasn't moved us to selhurst park
    4) he hasn't written cheques he can't pay

    My point is that even the 1.5, that it appears we agree on, couldn't even financially bank roll a league 1 club, now. If RM hadn't sold to the spivs we would almost certainly got relegated, either that season or the next. The same as when they sold to RD. 

    The same maybe true if RD doesn't sell before June, or it may not, without someone prepared to spend tens of millions, of their own money, we won't get a good owner. 
    None of which opportunities were available to him. But while all previous regimes lacked the money to fulfil the fans’ ambitions, this owner had no interest in them and has used the resources he does have to engage in the catastrophic destruction of the club’s performance, reputation and spirt because he couldn’t care less, because he lacks basic human qualities that would inevitably have put him on a different course and because he was able to call on a handful of gutless weasels to stand and applaud while he did it.

    It may be possible to find a worse owner than Duchatelet but his actions, inactions, arrogance and stupidity will damn him to hell for all the history of this club and anybody who imagines otherwise is clearly delusional themselves.
    Cafc43v3r said:
    No but 

    1) he hasn't allowed the ground to get into such a bad state that part of it can't get a safety certificate 
    2) he hasn't bankrupted us on the basis that a ship full of rubber will turn up any day now
    3) hasn't moved us to selhurst park
    4) he hasn't written cheques he can't pay

    My point is that even the 1.5, that it appears we agree on, couldn't even financially bank roll a league 1 club, now. If RM hadn't sold to the spivs we would almost certainly got relegated, either that season or the next. The same as when they sold to RD. 

    The same maybe true if RD doesn't sell before June, or it may not, without someone prepared to spend tens of millions, of their own money, we won't get a good owner. 
    None of which opportunities were available to him. But while all previous regimes lacked the money to fulfil the fans’ ambitions, this owner had no interest in them and has used the resources he does have to engage in the catastrophic destruction of the club’s performance, reputation and spirt because he couldn’t care less, because he lacks basic human qualities that would inevitably have put him on a different course and because he was able to call on a handful of gutless weasels to stand and applaud while he did it.

    It may be possible to find a worse owner than Duchatelet but his actions, inactions, arrogance and stupidity will damn him to hell for all the history of this club and anybody who imagines otherwise is clearly delusional themselves.
    Very well put, my "dog in this fight" isn't RD, far from it, my "dog" is the assumption that any new owner would be better.

    It's a big, common assumption, on here that a new owner will a) sign the out of contract players then b) pay for more players.  Its more likely that we will get an owner that tries to break even. There is no reference point in history that suggests we will get the owner we want or "deserve".  Maybe we are all paying the price for the expectation the RM area gave us? 

    We might just as well stick with the lunatic we have then.
  • edited February 10
    It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one.  There is no case to answer.
    Duchatelet is Now, so is the worse.
    Despite the reasons given by Airman, about Fryer/Hill and Heysel stadium being a factor in the move to Thornton heath did you have NO Problem with that move or are you too young ?
    It is last century CAFC history but I would hate for us to forget the shocking decisions made by previous owners.

    I repeat Roland Duchatelet is a nightmare owner and this is the painfull period we are living through. I have no idea what the next owners will be like, but even if they are bang average, will be an improvement on Duchatelet and most previous owners of this old south London football club.

    Ps. I was living in Penge at the time and only had a two mile walk to Selhurst Park, despite this I was delighted when we came home.
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  • I think you have to put these blights in Charlton's history in perspective 

    If some of the capers that had been pulled by previous regimes had been done under the glare of today's 24hr news, social media world the outrage meter would have been 10 fold times higher than it was back then.
  • Mark Hulyer and the Nigerian chief would have ended up on Big Brother.
  • edited February 10
    It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one.  There is no case to answer.
    Duchatelet is Now, so is the worse.
    Despite the reasons given by Airman, about Fryer/Hill and Heysel stadium being a factor in the move to Thornton heath did you have NO Problem with that move or are you too young ?
    It is last century CAFC history but I would hate for us to forget the shocking decisions made by previous owners.

    I repeat Roland Duchatelet is a nightmare owner and this is the painfull period we are living through. I have no idea what the next owners will be like, but even if they are bang average, will be an improvement on Duchatelet and most previous owners of this old south London football club.

    Ps. I was living in Penge at the time and only had a two mile walk to Selhurst Park, despite this I was delighted when we came home.

    I am a very young 52.

    These past 5 years have been carnage, you cannot compare to the past.

    The club is on the floor, waiting to be picked up off it, dusted down, and started again.
  • Look forward as Always to reading VOTV when my friend post it to me this week.

    Without VOTV life would not be the same.

    Like it or not it does give an insight into charlton and the plight that this club has become with Roland.

  • It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one.  There is no case to answer.
    This is a really good point. You should be able to list all of the positive and negative things that an owner has done and reach a conclusion as to how good they were completely independently of any external comparisons. When you have to fish around for the names of other bad owners to compare them with, you know you're on a sticky wicket.  
  • It IS possible that new owners are worse than Duchatelet.

    It is actually made more possible by Duchatelet who has made the club less attractive and driven away many possible owners.

    We saw at Portsmouth bad owner follow bad owner follow bad owner just because the club was such a mess that it became attractive to chancers and spivs.

    But to be worse than Duchatelet would be extremely hard, certainly in the short term.

    Regardless, Duchatelet is the clear and present threat to our club and has to go.


  • edited February 10
    Airman have you ever considered doing a paid for online version, for those of us abroad, once my mums found you, bought it and sent it here most of the stuff has been mentioned, it's still a good read but itd be great to get it faster!
  • It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one.  There is no case to answer.
    Duchatelet is Now, so is the worse.
    Despite the reasons given by Airman, about Fryer/Hill and Heysel stadium being a factor in the move to Thornton heath did you have NO Problem with that move or are you too young ?
    It is last century CAFC history but I would hate for us to forget the shocking decisions made by previous owners.

    I repeat Roland Duchatelet is a nightmare owner and this is the painfull period we are living through. I have no idea what the next owners will be like, but even if they are bang average, will be an improvement on Duchatelet and most previous owners of this old south London football club.

    Ps. I was living in Penge at the time and only had a two mile walk to Selhurst Park, despite this I was delighted when we came home.

    I am a very young 52.

    These past 5 years have been carnage, you cannot compare to the past.

    The club is on the floor, waiting to be picked up off it, dusted down, and started again.
    So you didn't have a problem going to Selhurst and don't feel that ripped the soul from our club.
    We lost a generation of fans that never came back.
    The packed out valley when we got to the Premier were 10k neutrals out of 26k.
    Bizarre way of looking back at a nightmare when we lost the Valley.

    How doesn't that compare to now ?

  • edited February 10
    It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one.  There is no case to answer.
    Duchatelet is Now, so is the worse.
    Despite the reasons given by Airman, about Fryer/Hill and Heysel stadium being a factor in the move to Thornton heath did you have NO Problem with that move or are you too young ?
    It is last century CAFC history but I would hate for us to forget the shocking decisions made by previous owners.

    I repeat Roland Duchatelet is a nightmare owner and this is the painfull period we are living through. I have no idea what the next owners will be like, but even if they are bang average, will be an improvement on Duchatelet and most previous owners of this old south London football club.

    Ps. I was living in Penge at the time and only had a two mile walk to Selhurst Park, despite this I was delighted when we came home.

    I am a very young 52.

    These past 5 years have been carnage, you cannot compare to the past.

    The club is on the floor, waiting to be picked up off it, dusted down, and started again.
    So you didn't have a problem going to Selhurst and don't feel that ripped the soul from our club.
    We lost a generation of fans that never came back.
    The packed out valley when we got to the Premier were 10k neutrals out of 26k.
    Bizarre way of looking back at a nightmare when we lost the Valley.

    How doesn't that compare to now ?

    Where did I say I did not have a problem with the move to Sainsburys?

    Refer to my post of 9.12 this morning before asking any further questions.......please.
  • Airman have you ever considered doing a paid for online version, for those of us abroad, once my mums found you, bought it and sent it here most of the stuff has been mentioned, it's still a good read but itd be great to get it faster!
    I think he does direct postal subscriptions.

    I think @PragueAddick and others get theirs that way.

    Might speed it up if you can cut out the 'middle man.'

    I'm not suggesting your Mum is a man for the avoidance of any doubt!
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Roland Out!