The mental gymnastics some posters on this thread are going through to shift the blame to Labour or to create some false equivalency between the amount of kids turning up for school hungry this morning, because that's what we are talking about, and 10, 15, 20 years ago is astonishing.
None of this should be a surprise to anyone.
The Tories have stood on a platform of austerity and a narrative of demonising benefits claimants since 2010. If you were happy to vote for it in 2010, then vote for more in 2015 and then a little more last year people could at least have the honesty to accept it or acknowledge the impact their vote has had on the poorest in our society.
See also rising homelessness...
im not shifting the blame to anyone - but the notion that food banks and poverty in this country are a new thing that have just been caused by the tories i believe to be bollocks. lets remember the tories only got in power in 2010!.
Then you go on to shift the blame. Look at the present shit state our country is in, it is down to the Tories and the polices of the Tory government, no one else. If as been said before we have had 25 plus years of poverty, Btw we haven't, (there will always be some poorer people) but the present levels of poverty is unprecedented in the modern world, its at Dickensian levels in some areas....the bottom line is that the Tories have had over 8 years to make it better, so what do they do, they make it worse for most people in this country, that cannot be argued, its not been fixed, its been broken and broken, by them almost to the point that it cannot be repaired. As @Bournemouth Addick said above, Tory voters have had plenty of time to understand what they are voting for. I cant change that, if only they would say, 'yep I voted for them, Ive bought into the tory vision of "I'm alright Jack', and I dont really give a toss about people less well off then me, but hey I give a couple of quid to Children In Need, so my conscious is clear' then at least I would have a bit of respect for them, however the constant defence of tory policies and attacking Labour is ridiculous, and I have nothing but contempt for anyones political view who voted for this Conservative government. Make no mistake the Tories caused this mess, no non else...no one.
Does poverty not exist in other developed countries? Have you spent any time travelling in the US for example?
According to recent OECD figures, the UK has similar levels of absolute poverty than its comparable developed world counterparts (defined in terms of earning
Oh do me a favour another condescending poster, take a look at what you have just written FFS! I’m calling bullshit, Hahaha! You do remember how they fucked it up dont you, you do remember Norman Lamont, you do remember how many working class people lost/handed back their houses, tell me you do then at least I’ll have some respect for your views. I was working three jobs to try and keep a roof over our heads. The Tory governments have always been total shits to the working class! Like I say everyone who voted for them is culpable including you blue boy! Do me a favour fucking hell!
All factual I'm afraid. I moved out of my parents council house & bought my first place in 1988. I did so because house prices were rocketing and I thought if I waited any longer, it might not ever be possible. I used most of the savings I'd built up over 7 years after saving every month, since starting work. I bought a 2 bed semi /end of terrace for £53,000 and took out a £35,000 mortgage. A few years later it had risen to £90,000 in value, before falling back to £68,000 in 1995. I then sold as I thought the market had bottomed out after falling 25%. I figured that although my property had fallen £22,000 in value, the one I wanted to buy had fallen £40,000. I moved to my existing house in 1995.
Oh and yes I remember it all clearly as I was working in a bank dealing with mortgages etc and was aware of what was probably going to happen. I could also bore you with MIRAS being removed which was inflating property prices ready for a fall, but as you think I bullshit I won't bother.
Sorry to sound harsh, but it's very much true.
So after all that long diatribe the Tories were to blame then, like they’ve fucked up the economy now, at least we agree on something.
"All factual I'm afraid. I moved out of my parents council house & bought my first place in 1988. I did so because house prices were rocketing and I thought if I waited any longer, it might not ever be possible. I used most of the savings I'd built up over 7 years after saving every month, since starting work. I bought a 2 bed semi /end of terrace for £53,000 and took out a £35,000 mortgage. A few years later it had risen to £90,000 in value, before falling back to £68,000 in 1995. I then sold as I thought the market had bottomed out after falling 25%. I figured that although my property had fallen £22,000 in value, the one I wanted to buy had fallen £40,000. I moved to my existing house in 1995.
Oh and yes I remember it all clearly as I was working in a bank dealing with mortgages etc and was aware of what was probably going to happen. I could also bore you with MIRAS being removed which was inflating property prices ready for a fall, but as you think I bullshit I won't bother."
So after all that long diatribe the Tories were to blame then, like they’ve fucked up the economy now, at least we agree on something.
Economies go up. Economies go down. It's why it's called an economic cycle.
Get over it.
You're not the only one who struggled when the interest rates went up to 15%. You're not the only one who worked all hours God sent to keep your roof over your head.
Economies go up. Economies go down. It's why it's called an economic cycle.
Get over it.
You're not the only one who struggled when the interest rates went up to 15%. You're not the only one who worked all hours God sent to keep your roof over your head.
Cool post. But you dont get it do you, its not about my struggle, economies go down when the Tories are in power, and me and you pay for their greed and incompetence, but hey you keep on putting your cross down next to them.
Economies go up. Economies go down. It's why it's called an economic cycle.
Get over it.
You're not the only one who struggled when the interest rates went up to 15%. You're not the only one who worked all hours God sent to keep your roof over your head.
Cool post. But you dont get it do you, its not about my struggle, economies go down when the Tories are in power, and me and you pay for their greed and incompetence, but hey you keep on putting your cross down next to them.
2008?
Mid 70's? Remember the 15% interest rate in 1976? Thatcher/the blues didn't arrive to 1979.
Economies go up. Economies go down. It's why it's called an economic cycle.
Get over it.
You're not the only one who struggled when the interest rates went up to 15%. You're not the only one who worked all hours God sent to keep your roof over your head.
Cool post. But you dont get it do you, its not about my struggle, economies go down when the Tories are in power, and me and you pay for their greed and incompetence, but hey you keep on putting your cross down next to them.
2008?
Mid 70's? Remember the 15% interest rate in 1976? Thatcher/the blues didn't arrive to 1979.
Economies go up. Economies go down. It's why it's called an economic cycle.
Get over it.
You're not the only one who struggled when the interest rates went up to 15%. You're not the only one who worked all hours God sent to keep your roof over your head.
Cool post. But you dont get it do you, its not about my struggle, economies go down when the Tories are in power, and me and you pay for their greed and incompetence, but hey you keep on putting your cross down next to them.
So now not only are you getting your economics confused with a simplistic myopic view, you are guessing who I vote for.
Economies go up. Economies go down. It's why it's called an economic cycle.
Get over it.
You're not the only one who struggled when the interest rates went up to 15%. You're not the only one who worked all hours God sent to keep your roof over your head.
Cool post. But you dont get it do you, its not about my struggle, economies go down when the Tories are in power, and me and you pay for their greed and incompetence, but hey you keep on putting your cross down next to them.
So now not only are you getting your economics confused with a simplistic myopic view, you are guessing who I vote for.
Have a break.
He has been doing this all week, I have lost count of the amount of times he has called me a Tory and I am wrong for voting for them however I have never mentioned who I vote for.
But when people say, there have always been food banks - they have never been used by such numbers - I think it is about 4 million people currently reliant on them. And then when you see these numbers includes the working poor including nurses - well it is a bit of a weak argument saying they have always been there.
I think those numbers are wide of the mark.
Trussell who account for around half in the UK I believe give out circa 1.3m 3 day food parcels a year (so nearly 4m days of food) and on average people use them twice a year, so on average that’s around 550k people using them twice a year or around 10,500 people a day getting food from them.
Even doubling that for all food banks is no where near 4m people reliant on them.
Think this may be down to semantics - if someone uses a food bank occasionally due to unforeseen circumstances are they relying on it or just using it?
The idea that 4m people ‘rely’ on them is obviously wrong.
Wrong and undermines the key point which for me is that why is there a need for food banks at all in such a rich country as the UK?
There will always be a range of factors, personal and political, but ultimately it is (in my centralist social democrat view) the government's role, of whatever colour, to protect the weakest in society and ensure basic human needs (safety, housing, heat, fuel) are met. Clearly, this current Tory government is failing that test, They should be ashamed that this is happening on their watch.
But when people say, there have always been food banks - they have never been used by such numbers - I think it is about 4 million people currently reliant on them. And then when you see these numbers includes the working poor including nurses - well it is a bit of a weak argument saying they have always been there.
I think those numbers are wide of the mark.
Trussell who account for around half in the UK I believe give out circa 1.3m 3 day food parcels a year (so nearly 4m days of food) and on average people use them twice a year, so on average that’s around 550k people using them twice a year or around 10,500 people a day getting food from them.
Even doubling that for all food banks is no where near 4m people reliant on them.
Think this may be down to semantics - if someone uses a food bank occasionally due to unforeseen circumstances are they relying on it or just using it?
The idea that 4m people ‘rely’ on them is obviously wrong.
Wrong and undermines the key point which for me is that why is there a need for food banks at all in such a rich country as the UK?
There will always be a range of factors, personal and political, but ultimately it is (in my centralist social democrat view) the government's role, of whatever colour, to protect the weakest in society and ensure basic human needs (safety, housing, heat, fuel) are met. Clearly, this current Tory government is failing that test, They should be ashamed that this is happening on their watch.
I'd argue that we're not as rich as is commonly thought - there's a tendency to confuse the size of the economy (very population dependent) with our relative wealth - on a per head basis we're not in the top 20 globally. Those countries of similar wealth (eg. France, Belgium, New Zealand, Canada) all have their own similar social/welfare problems which can't easily be explained by their own form of government versus ours - if there was a simpler answer to striking the balance between taxation and economic growth on the one hand, and fiscal spending/welfare on the other then one of these countries (or us) would have come up with it.
Comparing ourselves to the usual suspects when people think of a utopian economy (eg. Norway, Switzerland, Denmark etc.) is pointless given they are far richer countries than we are for various reasons.
It's also partly a numbers game in my view - if you argued that on average over a cycle that say 10% of any developed country's population will be in poverty due to the inevitable ebb and flow of employment, bad fortune, industry cycles etc. then it's simply logistically much harder to meet the needs of say 6m people here versus a few hundred thousand in the aforementioned countries. This aspect is multiplied several-fold in the USA where levels of abject poverty are extraordinary.
I've noted on another thread how total UK govt revenues have been stable around 35% GDP since the mid-1980s despite various Labour and Tory governments coming and going over that period with various taxation/spending priorities. It tells me that there's a natural equilibrium around this level and no magic wand to be waved to increase it - I accept that there are different ways to generate this revenue depending on the mix of different taxes and the ways the relative burden that falls on different parts of the economy, and clearly some on here don't think the richest have paid their fair share.
But when people say, there have always been food banks - they have never been used by such numbers - I think it is about 4 million people currently reliant on them. And then when you see these numbers includes the working poor including nurses - well it is a bit of a weak argument saying they have always been there.
I think those numbers are wide of the mark.
Trussell who account for around half in the UK I believe give out circa 1.3m 3 day food parcels a year (so nearly 4m days of food) and on average people use them twice a year, so on average that’s around 550k people using them twice a year or around 10,500 people a day getting food from them.
Even doubling that for all food banks is no where near 4m people reliant on them.
Think this may be down to semantics - if someone uses a food bank occasionally due to unforeseen circumstances are they relying on it or just using it?
The idea that 4m people ‘rely’ on them is obviously wrong.
Wrong and undermines the key point which for me is that why is there a need for food banks at all in such a rich country as the UK?
There will always be a range of factors, personal and political, but ultimately it is (in my centralist social democrat view) the government's role, of whatever colour, to protect the weakest in society and ensure basic human needs (safety, housing, heat, fuel) are met. Clearly, this current Tory government is failing that test, They should be ashamed that this is happening on their watch.
I'd argue that we're not as rich as is commonly thought - there's a tendency to confuse the size of the economy (very population dependent) with our relative wealth - on a per head basis we're not in the top 20 globally. Those countries of similar wealth (eg. France, Belgium, New Zealand, Canada) all have their own similar social/welfare problems which can't easily be explained by their own form of government versus ours - if there was a simpler answer to striking the balance between taxation and economic growth on the one hand, and fiscal spending/welfare on the other then one of these countries (or us) would have come up with it.
Comparing ourselves to the usual suspects when people think of a utopian economy (eg. Norway, Switzerland, Denmark etc.) is pointless given they are far richer countries than we are for various reasons.
It's also partly a numbers game in my view - if you argued that on average over a cycle that say 10% of any developed country's population will be in poverty due to the inevitable ebb and flow of employment, bad fortune, industry cycles etc. then it's simply logistically much harder to meet the needs of say 6m people here versus a few hundred thousand in the aforementioned countries. This aspect is multiplied several-fold in the USA where levels of abject poverty are extraordinary.
I've noted on another thread how total UK govt revenues have been stable around 35% GDP since the mid-1980s despite various Labour and Tory governments coming and going over that period with various taxation/spending priorities. It tells me that there's a natural equilibrium around this level and no magic wand to be waved to increase it - I accept that there are different ways to generate this revenue depending on the mix of different taxes and the ways the relative burden that falls on different parts of the economy, and clearly some on here don't think the richest have paid their fair share.
Valid points but this is still not a poor country, there is wealth and there is (or should be) a welfare state. For whatever reason that is not functioning properly for too many. We're not just talking about people with extreme issues and chaotic lifestyles but people in work.
The Tories have failed spectacularly for a range of reasons, but the UK is far from being alone. Started in 2008 in France, even the countries in Europe with the highest HDI rankings (Scandinavian mainly) have them, with parties in charge from the left right or centre.
Gave long life milk, some large jars of cassoulet and a few other bits to the Secours Populaire Français this evening outside the supermarket. I'm not sure where that's heading, but there's a massive rough sleeping problem in Paris.
The Tories have failed spectacularly for a range of reasons, but the UK is far from being alone. Started in 2008 in France, even the countries in Europe with the highest HDI rankings (Scandinavian mainly) have them, with parties in charge from the left right or centre.
The Tories have failed spectacularly for a range of reasons, but the UK is far from being alone. Started in 2008 in France, even the countries in Europe with the highest HDI rankings (Scandinavian mainly) have them, with parties in charge from the left right or centre.
The Tories have failed spectacularly for a range of reasons, but the UK is far from being alone. Started in 2008 in France, even the countries in Europe with the highest HDI rankings (Scandinavian mainly) have them, with parties in charge from the left right or centre.
Australia distributed 60 million meals last year to 3.6 million people and children.
Its a western world scandal.
Do you know how we (the west) compare to the Far East Arthur?
Only that Japan, only in the past few years, now has a form of food banks, but they are seen more as a way of minimizing food waste. The recipients are mainly the elderly (25% of Japanese are over 65 and Japan now sells more adult nap pies than children's), and to a lesser extent single mothers. Almost 100 organisation's, very locally run by volunteers, although Second Harvest is one Nationwide Food Bank. Abe's government is most closely aligned to a Liberal Democratic Party, but I'd say with a Conservative leaning.
I recall in Thailand there has long been a tradition of food collection and redistribution by charities and monks, but you'd have to get more up to date info from some of the Addicks out that way. The organisation I worked for distributed supplies to a shanty town nearby. but changed to donating to a project putting in clean water and pavements.
Blame the tories blah blah blah we’ve heard it all before.
I will guarantee you, there are a section of people who are recipients of food banks because they would rather spend their money on tvs, smart phones, internet shopping etc that will happen whoever’s in government.
Blame the tories blah blah blah we’ve heard it all before.
I will guarantee you, there are a section of people who are recipients of food banks because they would rather spend their money on tvs, smart phones, internet shopping etc that will happen whoever’s in government.
And I guarantee that the massive majority of them are using them because they and their families do not have the financial capacity to pay shop prices for sufficient food for them.
Blame the tories blah blah blah we’ve heard it all before.
I will guarantee you, there are a section of people who are recipients of food banks because they would rather spend their money on tvs, smart phones, internet shopping etc that will happen whoever’s in government.
Got to love the mainstream media!
I like the use of stats. As I've said many times before, stats can be manipulated if many ways, for example communist countries would have zero unemployment. The fact that they had bread queues is probably more telling.
Things like food bank usages can't be redefined and they have grown exponentially under the economy saving conservatives.
Blame the tories blah blah blah we’ve heard it all before.
I will guarantee you, there are a section of people who are recipients of food banks because they would rather spend their money on tvs, smart phones, internet shopping etc that will happen whoever’s in government.
And I guarantee that the massive majority of them are using them because they and their families do not have the financial capacity to pay shop prices for sufficient food for them.
My kids go to a school where a large number of families live in deprivation and I'm certain plenty of them rely on food banks. My daughter tells me that 80% of the school meals (which are usually cooked from scratch and are excellent) are untouched unless it's Friday fish and chips which everyone wolf's down. I'm genuinely not trying to score any points here but it's clear that a lot of kids who are 'starving' are ridiculously picky about the food that they'll eat.
Comments
@Covered End said
"All factual I'm afraid. I moved out of my parents council house & bought my first place in 1988.
I did so because house prices were rocketing and I thought if I waited any longer, it might not ever be possible.
I used most of the savings I'd built up over 7 years after saving every month, since starting work.
I bought a 2 bed semi /end of terrace for £53,000 and took out a £35,000 mortgage.
A few years later it had risen to £90,000 in value, before falling back to £68,000 in 1995.
I then sold as I thought the market had bottomed out after falling 25%.
I figured that although my property had fallen £22,000 in value, the one I wanted to buy had fallen £40,000.
I moved to my existing house in 1995.
Oh and yes I remember it all clearly as I was working in a bank dealing with mortgages etc and was aware of what was probably going to happen. I could also bore you with MIRAS being removed which was inflating property prices ready for a fall, but as you think I bullshit I won't bother."
So after all that long diatribe the Tories were to blame then, like they’ve fucked up the economy now, at least we agree on something.
Get over it.
You're not the only one who struggled when the interest rates went up to 15%. You're not the only one who worked all hours God sent to keep your roof over your head.
But you dont get it do you, its not about my struggle, economies go down when the Tories are in power, and me and you pay for their greed and incompetence, but hey you keep on putting your cross down next to them.
Mid 70's? Remember the 15% interest rate in 1976? Thatcher/the blues didn't arrive to 1979.
It's not only the blues.
Have a break.
When it comes to being flexible, in football terms I am more Lee Bowyer than Karl Robinson.
There will always be a range of factors, personal and political, but ultimately it is (in my centralist social democrat view) the government's role, of whatever colour, to protect the weakest in society and ensure basic human needs (safety, housing, heat, fuel) are met. Clearly, this current Tory government is failing that test, They should be ashamed that this is happening on their watch.
Comparing ourselves to the usual suspects when people think of a utopian economy (eg. Norway, Switzerland, Denmark etc.) is pointless given they are far richer countries than we are for various reasons.
It's also partly a numbers game in my view - if you argued that on average over a cycle that say 10% of any developed country's population will be in poverty due to the inevitable ebb and flow of employment, bad fortune, industry cycles etc. then it's simply logistically much harder to meet the needs of say 6m people here versus a few hundred thousand in the aforementioned countries. This aspect is multiplied several-fold in the USA where levels of abject poverty are extraordinary.
I've noted on another thread how total UK govt revenues have been stable around 35% GDP since the mid-1980s despite various Labour and Tory governments coming and going over that period with various taxation/spending priorities. It tells me that there's a natural equilibrium around this level and no magic wand to be waved to increase it - I accept that there are different ways to generate this revenue depending on the mix of different taxes and the ways the relative burden that falls on different parts of the economy, and clearly some on here don't think the richest have paid their fair share.
Foodbank support
• The club detailed some upcoming activity with local foodbanks, further
information to be released in due course
France - 3.5 million rely on food banks
Germany - 2 million and rising - there are 934 ''Tafel'' food banks in Germany.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6069247/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43634109
Spain 1.5 million
Australia distributed 60 million meals last year to 3.6 million people and children.
Its a western world scandal.
The German town profiled in the BBC article is called Essen... Isn't that the German word for eat?
I recall in Thailand there has long been a tradition of food collection and redistribution by charities and monks, but you'd have to get more up to date info from some of the Addicks out that way. The organisation I worked for distributed supplies to a shanty town nearby. but changed to donating to a project putting in clean water and pavements.
I will guarantee you, there are a section of people who are recipients of food banks because they would rather spend their money on tvs, smart phones, internet shopping etc that will happen whoever’s in government.
I like the use of stats. As I've said many times before, stats can be manipulated if many ways, for example communist countries would have zero unemployment. The fact that they had bread queues is probably more telling.
Things like food bank usages can't be redefined and they have grown exponentially under the economy saving conservatives.