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Rochdale v Charlton post-match thread | Sat 27 Oct 2018|

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    edited October 2018
    I listened to the game on Valley Pass. We sounded all at sea for the first 15 minutes by which time the damage had been done. We were then given a golden opportunity to get back in it with the penalty and promptly missed it!! LB said the first half was poor and the second half was not much better either and to be honest Steer pulled off some great saves to keep us in the game, but overall we sounded poor and this is backed up by the fact we have managed to get just 5 points from 18 in the last 6 games. This is not only NOT promotion form its not even play-off form and next weeks game against Donny followed by Walsall away are not easy and we could well find ourselves slipping down the table by 10 pm on the 6th November.
    This just seems to be a repeat of the last 4 seasons under RD's stewardship, we start with a decent first 11 but have nothing to back it up, we are miles from having a good squad and nothing, in my opinion, will change all the time we have an owner who really is not interested in CAFC (or football come to that!). Change of fortunes on the pitch and consistency will happen when/if we get a new owner who has ambition, but until that time we are where we are and that is a mid-table League One outfit who occasionally have few good games before injuries, loss of form and suspensions blow the wheels off!! I want to be optimistic and put yesterday down to bad luck, but our recent form says otherwise.
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    While we missed a penality and other chances it has to be remembered that while Rochdale did not have a penalty they did miss a number of good goal scoring opportunities, our defence, including the defensive midfield was poor. As for the attack high balls down the middle just don’t work and there was not enough balls to feet.

    We deserved to loose.
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    For the five minutes before the penalty miss we were actually starting to play well then the miss comes and heads went down (meaning our performance levels dropped) which is a bit out of character for the set of lads we have.
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    edited October 2018
    really missing page, solly doing ok at left back but he naturally has to cut in on his right slowing down any attacks and making us predictable.

    Second half went 442 and thought that made a difference and we properly deserved a point but when you miss a pen, hit the bar hit the post and have 2 goals disallowed you know it’s not gonna happen for you.

    This team has real potential but something is missing, hopefully bowyer can sort it out and we go on a run to keep in touch for the playoffs.

    Despite the result was a good away day and the fans got behind the lads.

    Got home to see the news on Leicester and puts a defeat into perspective.



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    vff said:

    Charlton are missing Bauer & Page. It is a makeshift defence with a centre midfield filling in & right back filling in at left back. How do we get here ? Duchatelet sold Konsa & relied upon an injury prone left back with no cover. Bielick is an injury prone centre back & expensive waged 5th choice Sarr is a centre back, a potential calamatious mistake each game.

    A team builds from the back & having an unbalanced & shaky defence is not going to help the rest of the team.

    For the strikers, from what I have seen Grant is League 2 standard. Ajose has good effort but is not a regular scorer & Vetekele never recovered the standard he played after being forced to play whilst injured under Peters.

    There is a decent standard 11 there but the lack of depth & quality is always going to undermine any chance of consistency that promotion needs.

    Like every other manager / coach under Duchatelet, Bowyers weaknesses are exposed by the lack of depth in the squad. That is at the door of Duchatelet. Success has a chance when he sells. Hopefully that will be with a Christmas price drop & a chance for some new owners to build some depth into the squad that will help Charlton get out of League One.

    Totally agree with the comments about the defence. LB has already stated that his priority in January is a left back so that says it all. Back four are unbalanced but what choice does he have?
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    lolwray said:

    At this level and below you 'll never survive if you fail to compete..you really have to get the basics right..and have the tactical nous to exploit the talent the squad has once you cover the basics

    Yup, this is the 3rd division and I, along with others, have made the point that 'industrial' football is needed to escape from this shite league. All very well playing lovely 4 and 5 man passing football but then the oppo just sit back deep and pick you off. Ball HAS to be moved quicker and more direct - yes even if that means we go route one sometimes.
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    Addick90 said:

    People having a go at steer and singing for Dillon Phillips is very harsh. He made two very good saves today which kept them to 1-0 or do people forget about them? He also came and claimed crosses well. It’s not his fault he’s put in ahead of Phillips but he certainly did more than just misplace a few passes. And also you cannot blame him or the two centre backs as the movement ahead of them was criminal.

    Bowyer instructs the goalie, whether it be Cullen or Phillips to play the ball out from the back.

    Therefore it is not the goalie's fault that they are doing as instructed.
    But it is Steer's fault that when he did go long it usually went directly to a Rochdale player.
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    Davo55 said:

    Addick90 said:

    People having a go at steer and singing for Dillon Phillips is very harsh. He made two very good saves today which kept them to 1-0 or do people forget about them? He also came and claimed crosses well. It’s not his fault he’s put in ahead of Phillips but he certainly did more than just misplace a few passes. And also you cannot blame him or the two centre backs as the movement ahead of them was criminal.

    Bowyer instructs the goalie, whether it be Cullen or Phillips to play the ball out from the back.

    Therefore it is not the goalie's fault that they are doing as instructed.
    But it is Steer's fault that when he did go long it usually went directly to a Rochdale player.
    Really? At that range he's hitting an area and hoping our men compete for it
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    i think its time for bow to shake things up time to give igor a go plus there must be a left back in the club we are to lob sided
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    Looking at the highlights on Sky , how many goals have we given away from shots from the edge of the box ? Too many players in the 6 yard box , but no one marking players on the edge of the area, surely something that needs to be worked on in training.
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    Would be interesting to see what Keith Hill or John Coleman could do with our squad. Maybe they could sort the attitude and team spirit out.

    Quite happy with a bit of industrial football if it gets results.

    At the time I (and some others here I imagine) thought that Russell Slade was the perfect choice as manager, lower division manager who knows the league, will get them working hard etc
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    Just remembered one of the few highlights of the afternoon that managed to put a smile on the faces of my 2 companions, ...albeit fleetingly.

    Towards the end of the match ( "Just blow that whistle, ref !!!" ) we managed to get more than a couple of players forward but it quickly became clear that there was a scarcity of back up to turn this foray into a promising attack.

    Totally frustrated ( and not for the first time...) I screamed " Where are you, Grant ?.

    Only to be reminded by Oli & Mr F that he had been subbed some time earlier....

    DOH !

    The question is still a valid one if you substitute Igor for Grant
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    Someone above mentioned Joe being helped by Djiksteel on several occasions. I trust the left-footed Aribo wasn't played on the right of the diamond?
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    After a night of partying 'til the wee small hours following news of our Joe's triumphs in Sri Lanka, I've had little time to dwell on the events of yesterday afternoon.

    The plusses ?

    Travelling as always with one of "our gang" , good food & wine onboard the choo choo, lovely cab driver with great sense of humour on both legs of the journey and finally, basking in the sun for at least an hour from our seats in the stand.

    The negatives ?

    Well, it would be lazy of me to say there were too many to mention but a disjointed performance with so many errors from all parts of the pitch inevitably meant nil points. We deserved nothing more IMO.

    "Our" Joe had a 1st half to forget & all around us were surprised that he wasn't the one to be subbed at half time. Solly was clearly having a bad day at the office, whilst those around him appeared dazed & bewildered by the quick feet & unrelenting pressure from the opposition. Marauding Dales, indeed who fully deserved their 3 points.

    There were a few bright spots to look back on and once or twice we began to believe that we might show our fighting spirit & togetherness to make a comeback and even grab a point but sadly, those brief periods soon faded and once again Steer's goal came under attack.

    As always, I'm not qualified to comment on the formation played , nor even the pros & cons of the roles that Bow had chosen for our lads.

    But, I do know that I felt very let down by the overall performance & seeming lack of character from the Reds....and it appears that Bow's views were not dissimilar to mine.

    I'm NOT a fair weather supporter.

    But on this performance, the thought of listening to the dawn chorus as we make our way to Mansfield in 2 weeks' time has been soured and the decision made not to travel. Instead, we hope to spend the day with "our gang" in deepest, darkest, Wadhurst , no doubt reflecting on what might have been if The Rat had chosen A N Other Club on which to bestow his dubious charms.....

    In light of last night's devastating accident in Leicester, one may only hope that a certain skinflint in St Truiden is aware of this news and that he reflects on how things might have been at his football club, and its community....

    Fat chance.

    Nice to meet you on the train home.
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    We are just wank .
    You know as soon as Charlton fans start blowing someones trumpet that they just turn to shit .
    We are probably cursed .
    This has all come from the stale wankstain of ownership that has diseased our club , I fucking hate it , we are beyond pathetic .
    We are gonna at least equal our longest spell( I believe it’s 4 seasons at this level) of wankness since we entered the Football League .
    In the mean time we look for crumbs of comfort elsewhere , well no the scum aren’t going down from the Championship and nor are palarse from the Premiership . Both clubs have never been this far above us in the footballing pyramid for such a long time at the same time .
    These are truly shameful , pathetic times for our club .
    All because of the slow death inflicted upon us by that twunt from Belgium .
    I don’t know how we rid ourselves of the old scrote but as I’m sure will happen after a few wins , wanking about a little bit of success in a dross League One and saying protests will affect our promotion run is pure bullshit .
    Who knows what the solution is but watching this club die is fucking painful .

    A cheery read for Sunday morning !!

    Hope all the sharp implements have been removed. Blimey mate, have you considered a call to the Samaratans? Mind you, I make you right on most counts. This is defo the worst time to be a Charlton fan EVER!

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    Scoham said:

    Watched on iFollow. It was like a defeat under Robinson. Too much passing out from the back, problem is we don’t have a striker that can win headers. We need to find a way to go longer at times to mix it up.

    One of the things I’ve liked about Bowyer is his teams have been more balanced. Not overly direct or tippy tappy, or too attacking or defensive, stuck to one formation or style of play etc.

    I like the diamond but it needs the right players. Solly and Dijksteel’s strengths aren’t attacking. Ward and Fosu are more wide players than central players.

    The other issue is the lack of goals from our midfield. They need to get in more goalscoring positions which will lead them taking more shots. It’s great to have two goal scoring strikers but we need more goals from elsewhere in the team.

    Yes we do... Lyle Taylor

    Just there will be games when Defenders will get the better of him, the same as in other games he'll get the better of them

    Problem is we dont have an alternative to him if defences do have his number
    Sorry FA, but Taylor only jumps to head the ball about once a game.
    The rest of the time he stays on the ground and grapples with the defender who is above him trying to head the ball.
    I came to the conclusion yesterday, that is why Taylor has so many fouls given against him.
    It's because the refs can see Taylor isn't making an attempt to head the ball, whereas the defenders are.
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    Someone above mentioned Joe being helped by Djiksteel on several occasions. I trust the left-footed Aribo wasn't played on the right of the diamond?

    Most of the time no, but as we have played in the last 2 home games it is a flexi diamond when on occasions players interchange. The base staying as it was with Bielik and then Cullen at the base. But most of time Aribo was on the left.
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    RedChaser said:

    I think any remaining optimism for the season has been extinguished.

    Has it? - Just feels a typical feel on CharltonLife

    Win and we're getting to the Play-Offs | Lose and its season over
    We've lost three of our last six games and won once and are playing poorly - with the possible exception of the Barnsley game. It doesn't look good.....

    Hopefully things will change.
    Do hope things will change, yet if we win our next three we've only missed our nine game target by three points

    That can easily be made up later on in the season
    I'm not really sure what LB will do to change things. The return of Page would certainly help but we don't seem to score enough.

    Once you drop below 1.5 points per game you're going nowhere. Next 3 fixtures:

    Doncaster H
    Walsall A
    Portsmouth A

    All potentially difficult.
    Yet funnily am more confident against the tougher teams under Bowyer - Not to mention there is no guarantee that game against Portsmouth will happen

    If there is issue with Bowyer's tactics its the fact we cant seem to beat the teams we should be beating: AFC Wimbledon | Bristol Rovers | Rochdale | Oxford | Fleetwood

    These are all similar opponents yet we've failed to show up each time against any of them since he's been in charge
    Good analysis. He has deemed it to be attitude the old 'we're too good for this league just roll over and we'll tickle your belly' mentality. Unfortunately we are prime meat for the lesser likes of league one. You have to meet fire with fire just like Powell's squad did in 2011/2012. This squad has some good technically gifted players but do they fancy a battle on a cold winters day oop North , which this league mainly is. On yesterday's showing some didn't.

    Bowyer tells it like it is and how he expects his players to roll their sleeves up just as he would have done but if some of them ain't got the same drive and appetite for the challenge.......... It ain't gonna happen no matter what formation he deploys, we are still lacking some useful big lumps IMO and the alternatives don't exist with the back up available.
    You're right & I was thinking the same last night. Some of our lads didn't fancy it, at a cold & windy Rochdale.
    Aribo, Fosu, Grant, Vetokele & Taylor being the main ones.
    I think these lads in particular played like they needed the sun on their backs, rather than a biting north wind.
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    Obviously a very disappointing result and performance. Having said that I do feel we were a shade unlucky not get a point.
    For me the only ones to come out with any real credit were Pearce (as usual) and Ward, who I think will turn into good signing.
    Goalkeeper - yes we want to play out from the back but keep passing to Pearce and Pratley when they are surrounded by Dale forwards is just daft. Long kicks dreadfully inaccurate.
    Defence - we look unbalanced. I have no idea whose idea it was to go into the season with just one injury prone left back, but my suspicion is it was financially driven. Pratley looked out of position a few times
    Midfield - unbalanced particularly in the first half. Cullen much better at the base of the diamond.
    Attack - poor service meant they lived off scraps but neither looked as incisive as normal

    How much has 3 games in a week affected us. I think it did but then Dale also had the same.

    Please let's keep behind Bowyer. Not perfect but I still have more confidence in him than anyone since SP.
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    Hard to believe this is the same side that looked so good in the win over Barnsley just over a week ago. With only a third of the season gone it's too early to push the panic button quite yet, but 5 points out of the last 18 available shows something clearly isn't right. As someone who only goes to the home games these days its hard for me determine exactly what's wrong, except to say that we must starting putting teams away when we're on top as has been the case in most if not all of the home games so far. Obviously the off field situation doesn't help, and I certainly wouldn't be looking at changing the management team, but the squad should be at least capable of challenging for a Play-Off spot and 13th in League One clearly isn't good enough. Let's see where we are at Christmas and hopefully things will have improved by then. Keep the faith.
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    After a night of partying 'til the wee small hours following news of our Joe's triumphs in Sri Lanka, I've had little time to dwell on the events of yesterday afternoon.

    The plusses ?

    Travelling as always with one of "our gang" , good food & wine onboard the choo choo, lovely cab driver with great sense of humour on both legs of the journey and finally, basking in the sun for at least an hour from our seats in the stand.

    The negatives ?

    Well, it would be lazy of me to say there were too many to mention but a disjointed performance with so many errors from all parts of the pitch inevitably meant nil points. We deserved nothing more IMO.

    "Our" Joe had a 1st half to forget & all around us were surprised that he wasn't the one to be subbed at half time. Solly was clearly having a bad day at the office, whilst those around him appeared dazed & bewildered by the quick feet & unrelenting pressure from the opposition. Marauding Dales, indeed who fully deserved their 3 points.

    There were a few bright spots to look back on and once or twice we began to believe that we might show our fighting spirit & togetherness to make a comeback and even grab a point but sadly, those brief periods soon faded and once again Steer's goal came under attack.

    As always, I'm not qualified to comment on the formation played , nor even the pros & cons of the roles that Bow had chosen for our lads.

    But, I do know that I felt very let down by the overall performance & seeming lack of character from the Reds....and it appears that Bow's views were not dissimilar to mine.

    I'm NOT a fair weather supporter.

    But on this performance, the thought of listening to the dawn chorus as we make our way to Mansfield in 2 weeks' time has been soured and the decision made not to travel. Instead, we hope to spend the day with "our gang" in deepest, darkest, Wadhurst , no doubt reflecting on what might have been if The Rat had chosen A N Other Club on which to bestow his dubious charms.....

    In light of last night's devastating accident in Leicester, one may only hope that a certain skinflint in St Truiden is aware of this news and that he reflects on how things might have been at his football club, and its community....

    Fat chance.

    Nice to meet you on the train home.
    Ditto, @roseandcrown

    Always good to put a face to a name.
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    dallas said:

    i think its time for bow to shake things up time to give igor a go plus there must be a left back in the club we are to lob sided

    Shame to say, I think we have long since seen Igor’s better days......a reasonable squad player but not one that’s gonna pull up roses on an ongoing basis.
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    addick05 said:

    vff said:

    Charlton are missing Bauer & Page. It is a makeshift defence with a centre midfield filling in & right back filling in at left back. How do we get here ? Duchatelet sold Konsa & relied upon an injury prone left back with no cover. Bielick is an injury prone centre back & expensive waged 5th choice Sarr is a centre back, a potential calamatious mistake each game.

    A team builds from the back & having an unbalanced & shaky defence is not going to help the rest of the team.

    For the strikers, from what I have seen Grant is League 2 standard. Ajose has good effort but is not a regular scorer & Vetekele never recovered the standard he played after being forced to play whilst injured under Peters.

    There is a decent standard 11 there but the lack of depth & quality is always going to undermine any chance of consistency that promotion needs.

    Like every other manager / coach under Duchatelet, Bowyers weaknesses are exposed by the lack of depth in the squad. That is at the door of Duchatelet. Success has a chance when he sells. Hopefully that will be with a Christmas price drop & a chance for some new owners to build some depth into the squad that will help Charlton get out of League One.

    Totally agree with the comments about the defence. LB has already stated that his priority in January is a left back so that says it all. Back four are unbalanced but what choice does he have?
    Mascoll? Stevenson? Give them a chance and see if they are good enough.
    This. Play a natural LB.......or at least someone with a fecking left foot !!!

    we lose so much going forward down the left because Solly will cut inside & then lay it off. I don't know about yesterday as I wasn't but in the last 2 home games he probably went down the left about half a dozen times during the whole 2 games.

    I wonder what Bowyer would have thought if Curbs had played Leaburn or David Whyte in midfield in 1996 instead of drafting in the precocious 16 year old Bowyer.
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    addick05 said:

    vff said:

    Charlton are missing Bauer & Page. It is a makeshift defence with a centre midfield filling in & right back filling in at left back. How do we get here ? Duchatelet sold Konsa & relied upon an injury prone left back with no cover. Bielick is an injury prone centre back & expensive waged 5th choice Sarr is a centre back, a potential calamatious mistake each game.

    A team builds from the back & having an unbalanced & shaky defence is not going to help the rest of the team.

    For the strikers, from what I have seen Grant is League 2 standard. Ajose has good effort but is not a regular scorer & Vetekele never recovered the standard he played after being forced to play whilst injured under Peters.

    There is a decent standard 11 there but the lack of depth & quality is always going to undermine any chance of consistency that promotion needs.

    Like every other manager / coach under Duchatelet, Bowyers weaknesses are exposed by the lack of depth in the squad. That is at the door of Duchatelet. Success has a chance when he sells. Hopefully that will be with a Christmas price drop & a chance for some new owners to build some depth into the squad that will help Charlton get out of League One.

    Totally agree with the comments about the defence. LB has already stated that his priority in January is a left back so that says it all. Back four are unbalanced but what choice does he have?
    Mascoll? Stevenson? Give them a chance and see if they are good enough.
    This. Play a natural LB.......or at least someone with a fecking left foot !!!

    we lose so much going forward down the left because Solly will cut inside & then lay it off. I don't know about yesterday as I wasn't but in the last 2 home games he probably went down the left about half a dozen times during the whole 2 games.

    I wonder what Bowyer would have thought if Curbs had played Leaburn or David Whyte in midfield in 1996 instead of drafting in the precocious 16 year old Bowyer.
    Nabby's got a left foot...…..Runs for cover with crash helmet securely fastened @Leuth you got my back mate? :wink:
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