That is true, but you can get married outside of a church.
My point is that religious people, from across the board (well nearly), can have a positive opinion on gay relationships, but not agree with gay marriage. I also said "a religious church ceremony in this case" because it stated the bakery was "Christian"
Agree, and as said before I know some gay people who see marriage as a "straight person thing" and don't want one. Not saying they disagreed with the choice being available I suppose
That is true, but you can get married outside of a church.
My point is that religious people, from across the board (well nearly), can have a positive opinion on gay relationships, but not agree with gay marriage. I also said "a religious church ceremony in this case" because it stated the bakery was "Christian"
Agree, and as said before I know some gay people who see marriage as a "straight person thing" and don't want one. Not saying they disagreed with the choice being available I suppose
I was gonna go on to say that I personally can't really understand why gay folk want their relationship blessed by religions (Chrianity and Judaism, as they're the only two that allow gay marriage that as far as I'm aware) that historically and generally, don't agree with their relationship in the first place, but no doubt there's a good reason for it...
That is true, but you can get married outside of a church.
My point is that religious people, from across the board (well nearly), can have a positive opinion on gay relationships, but not agree with gay marriage. I also said "a religious church ceremony in this case" because it stated the bakery was "Christian"
Agree, and as said before I know some gay people who see marriage as a "straight person thing" and don't want one. Not saying they disagreed with the choice being available I suppose
I was gonna go on to say that I personally can't really understand why gay folk want their relationship blessed by religions (Chrianity and Judaism, as they're the only two that allow gay marriage that as far as I'm aware) that historically and generally, don't agree with their relationship in the first place, but no doubt there's a good reason for it...
Spot on, that was the reasoning. He likened it to a club that said "Whites only". People may campaign to end that blatant discrimination, might be successful if a majority of the club vote against the rule... But can perfectly understand if not all BAME people want to join the club, particularly as not every member agrees with the new rule.
Not just religious weddings as well. I had a civil ceremony, and the only single thing we weren't allowed to change about the service was the part "a wedding is between a man and woman". I can very much understand if gay people thought "forget it"
Not sure this thread should turns into the wrongs, wrongs and rights of organised religion debate because AFKA will quite rightly shut it down.
What has not been tested in this case is whether the bakers would have produced a plain white cake with two blokes kissing made out of icing on the top.
I would suggest they would not have done so but that would have been found discriminatory. It was only the political message refusal that was found to be acceptable.
I agree they should have just elsewhere for a cake.
That is true, but you can get married outside of a church.
My point is that religious people, from across the board (well nearly), can have a positive opinion on gay relationships, but not agree with gay marriage. I also said "a religious church ceremony in this case" because it stated the bakery was "Christian"
Agree, and as said before I know some gay people who see marriage as a "straight person thing" and don't want one. Not saying they disagreed with the choice being available I suppose
I was gonna go on to say that I personally can't really understand why gay folk want their relationship blessed by religions (Chrianity and Judaism, as they're the only two that allow gay marriage that as far as I'm aware) that historically and generally, don't agree with their relationship in the first place, but no doubt there's a good reason for it...
Take your point about historically - But there are gay christians, which is probably the good reason for it.
That is true, but you can get married outside of a church.
My point is that religious people, from across the board (well nearly), can have a positive opinion on gay relationships, but not agree with gay marriage. I also said "a religious church ceremony in this case" because it stated the bakery was "Christian"
Agree, and as said before I know some gay people who see marriage as a "straight person thing" and don't want one. Not saying they disagreed with the choice being available I suppose
I was gonna go on to say that I personally can't really understand why gay folk want their relationship blessed by religions (Chrianity and Judaism, as they're the only two that allow gay marriage that as far as I'm aware) that historically and generally, don't agree with their relationship in the first place, but no doubt there's a good reason for it...
Take your point about historically - But there are gay christians, which is probably the good reason for it.
I know, as I've already said a couple of times, there are gay Christians and even gay clergy these days, but I don't think a lot of gay people (maybe even the majority) interpret the bible to be conducive to who they are.
He may have wept, but there is certainly not one quote from him in the bible condemning homosexuality! Mind you there are enough from others I feel a bit sorry for people who take everything they read in it as fact - that is how you get the idiots who are Muslim fundamentalists.
Personally, I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, but there are fewer people I have more respect for than him. I would call my values Christian values with pride.
He may have wept, but there is certainly not one quote from him in the bible condemning homosexuality! Mind you there are enough from others I feel a bit sorry for people who take everything they read in it as fact - that is how you get the idiots who are Muslim fundamentalists.
Personally, I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, but there are fewer people I have more respect for than him. I would call my values Christian values with pride.
He may have wept, but there is certainly not one quote from him in the bible condemning homosexuality! Mind you there are enough from others I feel a bit sorry for people who take everything they read in it as fact - that is how you get the idiots who are Muslim fundamentalists.
Personally, I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, but there are fewer people I have more respect for than him. I would call my values Christian values with pride.
It could also be argued that their views are more in line with actual Christian beliefs before the watering down and/or removal of the uncomfortable bits.
He may have wept, but there is certainly not one quote from him in the bible condemning homosexuality! Mind you there are enough from others I feel a bit sorry for people who take everything they read in it as fact - that is how you get the idiots who are Muslim fundamentalists.
Personally, I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, but there are fewer people I have more respect for than him. I would call my values Christian values with pride.
He may have wept, but there is certainly not one quote from him in the bible condemning homosexuality! Mind you there are enough from others I feel a bit sorry for people who take everything they read in it as fact - that is how you get the idiots who are Muslim fundamentalists.
Personally, I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, but there are fewer people I have more respect for than him. I would call my values Christian values with pride.
Is that strictly true or, seeing as Jesus and God are deemed to be the same entity, he made such utterances in Leviticus 20:13 when speaking to Moses?
Well if you see God and Jesus as the same person, yes. I didn't think that was the prevailing view though. And of course if he was, he may have changed his mind since that conversation with Moses.
Well if you see God and Jesus as the same person, yes. I didn't think that was the prevailing view though. And of course if he was, he may have changed his mind since that conversation with Moses.
The whole Christian world sees them as the same entity, along with the Holy Spirit!
Well if you see God and Jesus as the same person, yes. I didn't think that was the prevailing view though. And of course if he was, he may have changed his mind since that conversation with Moses.
Don't you think, then, that he ought to inform everyone of his mind changing?
If Mosaic Law has changed then someone had better tell the followers of Judaism.
I thought they saw Jesus as the son of god. That's what they forced....sorry, told me at school.
It's all pretty selective anyway. Jesus told us it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven. I suppose he didn't specify where you draw the line so hopefully he meant those earning a few quid more than me.
I thought they saw Jesus as the son of god. That's what they forced....sorry, told me at school.
Nope. They (generally....and some will no doubt try and pick that apart)don't see Jesus as the son of God:
"For some Jews, the name alone is nearly synonymous with pogroms and Crusades, charges of deicide and centuries of Christian anti-Semitism.
Other Jews, recently, have come to regard him as a Jewish teacher. This does not mean, however, that they believe, as Christians do, that he was raised from the dead or was the messiah."
He may have wept, but there is certainly not one quote from him in the bible condemning homosexuality! Mind you there are enough from others I feel a bit sorry for people who take everything they read in it as fact - that is how you get the idiots who are Muslim fundamentalists.
Personally, I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, but there are fewer people I have more respect for than him. I would call my values Christian values with pride.
Is that strictly true or, seeing as Jesus and God are deemed to be the same entity, he made such utterances in Leviticus 20:13 when speaking to Moses?
It refers to a man and a man 'laying down' like a man and a woman, which if so they are to be killed (not verbatim but roughly that). I thought it was Leviticus 18:22 but it's been a long time.
Funnily enough I don't believe it mentions a Woman and a Woman laying down like a man and a woman, sexist the bible if you ask me :-)
Well if you see God and Jesus as the same person, yes. I didn't think that was the prevailing view though. And of course if he was, he may have changed his mind since that conversation with Moses.
The whole Christian world sees them as the same entity, along with the Holy Spirit!
Indeed, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, only one god....... thank god.
He may have wept, but there is certainly not one quote from him in the bible condemning homosexuality! Mind you there are enough from others I feel a bit sorry for people who take everything they read in it as fact - that is how you get the idiots who are Muslim fundamentalists.
Personally, I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, but there are fewer people I have more respect for than him. I would call my values Christian values with pride.
Is that strictly true or, seeing as Jesus and God are deemed to be the same entity, he made such utterances in Leviticus 20:13 when speaking to Moses?
It refers to a man and a man 'laying down' like a man and a woman, which if so they are to be killed (not verbatim but roughly that). I thought it was Leviticus 18:22 but it's been a long time.
Funnily enough I don't believe it mentions a Woman and a Woman laying down like a man and a woman, sexist the bible if you ask me :-)
Well if you see God and Jesus as the same person, yes. I didn't think that was the prevailing view though. And of course if he was, he may have changed his mind since that conversation with Moses.
The whole Christian world sees them as the same entity, along with the Holy Spirit!
Indeed, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, only one god....... thank god.
Leviticus 18:22 says:
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
20:13 says:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
He may have wept, but there is certainly not one quote from him in the bible condemning homosexuality! Mind you there are enough from others I feel a bit sorry for people who take everything they read in it as fact - that is how you get the idiots who are Muslim fundamentalists.
Personally, I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, but there are fewer people I have more respect for than him. I would call my values Christian values with pride.
Is that strictly true or, seeing as Jesus and God are deemed to be the same entity, he made such utterances in Leviticus 20:13 when speaking to Moses?
It refers to a man and a man 'laying down' like a man and a woman, which if so they are to be killed (not verbatim but roughly that). I thought it was Leviticus 18:22 but it's been a long time.
Funnily enough I don't believe it mentions a Woman and a Woman laying down like a man and a woman, sexist the bible if you ask me :-)
Well if you see God and Jesus as the same person, yes. I didn't think that was the prevailing view though. And of course if he was, he may have changed his mind since that conversation with Moses.
The whole Christian world sees them as the same entity, along with the Holy Spirit!
Indeed, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, only one god....... thank god.
Leviticus 18:22 says:
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
20:13 says:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Neither are very nice.
Ta, I'm amazed not having picked up a bible for over 30 years I remembered half right! I now also remember why I haven't picked one up for 30 years!
Edit, I vividly remember the last time I held a bible, it was in a side room in church when I was getting married in 1999, waiting for my wife to be to arrive who was fashionably late. A wasp was flying around and swooping on me and the best man. It landed and the bible came down and squashed him just as the Vicar came in and said 'ready' - he didn't look impressed!
He may have wept, but there is certainly not one quote from him in the bible condemning homosexuality! Mind you there are enough from others I feel a bit sorry for people who take everything they read in it as fact - that is how you get the idiots who are Muslim fundamentalists.
Personally, I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, but there are fewer people I have more respect for than him. I would call my values Christian values with pride.
Is that strictly true or, seeing as Jesus and God are deemed to be the same entity, he made such utterances in Leviticus 20:13 when speaking to Moses?
It refers to a man and a man 'laying down' like a man and a woman, which if so they are to be killed (not verbatim but roughly that). I thought it was Leviticus 18:22 but it's been a long time.
Funnily enough I don't believe it mentions a Woman and a Woman laying down like a man and a woman, sexist the bible if you ask me :-)
Well if you see God and Jesus as the same person, yes. I didn't think that was the prevailing view though. And of course if he was, he may have changed his mind since that conversation with Moses.
The whole Christian world sees them as the same entity, along with the Holy Spirit!
Indeed, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, only one god....... thank god.
Leviticus 18:22 says:
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
20:13 says:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Neither are very nice.
Ta, I'm amazed not having picked up a bible for over 30 years I remembered half right! I now also remember why I haven't picked one up for 30 years!
I like to read the Old Testament as it serves as a fantastic reassurance tool as to why objective reasoning and logic wins over religion.
Comments
What has not been tested in this case is whether the bakers would have produced a plain white cake with two blokes kissing made out of icing on the top.
I would suggest they would not have done so but that would have been found discriminatory. It was only the political message refusal that was found to be acceptable.
I agree they should have just elsewhere for a cake.
Personally, I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, but there are fewer people I have more respect for than him. I would call my values Christian values with pride.
If Mosaic Law has changed then someone had better tell the followers of Judaism.
It's all pretty selective anyway. Jesus told us it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven. I suppose he didn't specify where you draw the line so hopefully he meant those earning a few quid more than me.
"For some Jews, the name alone is nearly synonymous with pogroms and Crusades, charges of deicide and centuries of Christian anti-Semitism.
Other Jews, recently, have come to regard him as a Jewish teacher. This does not mean, however, that they believe, as Christians do, that he was raised from the dead or was the messiah."
Funnily enough I don't believe it mentions a Woman and a Woman laying down like a man and a woman, sexist the bible if you ask me :-) Indeed, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, only one god....... thank god.
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
20:13 says:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Neither are very nice.
Edit, I vividly remember the last time I held a bible, it was in a side room in church when I was getting married in 1999, waiting for my wife to be to arrive who was fashionably late. A wasp was flying around and swooping on me and the best man. It landed and the bible came down and squashed him just as the Vicar came in and said 'ready' - he didn't look impressed!