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Incident in Greenwich

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  • edited August 2018
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  • Addickted said:

    Addickted said:

    We have a lot of gun violence here, but per capita, if people in England had the access to guns and semi-automatics that we do in the USA, you would be having mass-killings every single week. I can only imagine if all the knife attacks, hammer attacks and car attacks you've had in 2018 were assault rifles, instead.

    Chicago saw 66 shootings with 12 fatalities a couple of weeks ago, didn't the Donald repeal Obama's mental health provisions on gun ownership?

    The social mental healthcare in the UK is a national disgrace and thankfully we do have strong gun control though
    Illinois has among the toughest gun laws in the USA. They have not worked. They had record shootings long before Trump was elected. He is not the cause.

    Factoid... take out inner city people from the USA gun violence stats, and shootings per gun-owner per capita is not much different overall than other gun owning countries. Most of the gun deaths are in the inner cities here.

    This study shows that black people commit 20x+ the number of gun murders per capita. They make up only 12% of the US population. These are disturbingly politically incorrect numbers, but they are true and it needs to be addressed. I am sure poverty and one-parent families and poor education are the sub cause in the inner city, but the stats are the stats. Outside of the inner city, white gun deaths in the USA are not that different from other gun owning countries. In fact, per capita they are not really a problem overall. 31 per million among men and 11 for women. The death rate for prescription drugs is 245.

    image
    In 2013/14 the total number of murders in the UK, across all age ranges was 537. That's 9 per million. That's NINE PER MILLION for all murders.

    The closest stats I can find for murder with a firearm was in 2011/12 when a total for the whole population of the UK was 39. That would be a quiet weekend in Detroit.

    Try not to compare the level of violence in the UK with the USA @NapaAddick - generally we tend not to overreact quite as much as you Colonials.
    Pointless irrelevant stat too. The country has changed beyond recognition in 5 years.
    Pointless and irrelevant?

    You are correct though, the murder rate in 2017/18 went up to 736 last year.

    Which is still 49 fewer than 2007/08 and a remarkable 311 fewer murders than in 2002/03. it would appear as far as murder is concerned, the Country has changed for the better.


    Home Office stats usually refer to 'homicides' including manslaughter and infanticide as well as 'murder' .. 2002/3 figures include Shipman's killing spree
  • Rudders22 said:

    Sadly my Mum has mental issues as well... paranoid scritozephenia (excuse the spelling). She doesn't self harm nor is she a threat to anyone but the knock on affect it gets me down. Her illness is due to to wild imagination and the police are aware as she imagines them and calsl the police, (or used to). The local police are aware of my other's illness so when she has the odd momentI will get a call from the police first just to suspect if I think something is tru and wether they need to send someone out. The fact that well before they arrested him they put out that he has mentail health issues it is probably known. The mental health service is appallaing. Last year it was so bad I took the advice of the out of hours health team who told me to ring 999. I called 999. She was in a medical ward first (as she was physically unwell) and then went to Oxleas. T thought great, at least she is in there. Then I got a call from Oxleas to say she would be going back to medcail work at QE. A few days/week later I was contacted by the medical ward to say she is medically fit to come out from the hospital ward. I queried this? and they said "oh we are not aware of any other issues". WTF. Needless to say I she never made it to Oxleas. So frustrated I put on FB that I jsut feel lkie killing myself (not wanting to do it) So many friens and work colleagues got in touch. I went to the local MP, we have a social worker. However, we are still waiting for her to go into alternative accomodation with extra care. Trust me I am finding it very difficult to live with. I don't sleep well. I get stressed out a lot. The social worker is great in that she confirmed that she is trying to get into a place by the end of the year.

    Sorry to hear that, mate. Horrible situation but perhaps it will make a few think twice about their knee jerk reactions on here.
    Hi Ben,

    Thanks mate.

    I will see you on 5th September obviously.

    Yeah, that's why when peple were comnenting about another incident in Greenwich and the police put it out there that he has a mental health issue, it doesn't make it right, this is slightly different to your knife attacks etc and is an is separate from the horrid crime rate going round at the moment with all the stabbings. Everyone is quick to blame Sadiq Khan but it happened on Bori's watch. Police cuts have been there since Mat was Home Secretary plus lack of investment in youhr projects an support plus the impace on drugs. Anyway that is another issue.
  • Mass media feed moral panic and have since the written word-------Cyber Land multiply it by ten.

    Hope the two ladies recover fully
  • Hi @Rudders22

    Good points, if there was one quick solution someone would have done it. There isn't because it's a very complex problem and the solutions are the same.

    And Paul, you won't see me on 5 Sept as it's 6 Sept : - )
  • NOt the thread for US gun crime please.

    Bet you felt sick reading that @Braziliance

    Bit of a shock yeah. Like I said usually it's never someone you know. It does make me wonder what drove him to that point.

    Seen a lot of people online making sneering remarks like 'nice English name Xuereb'. Joe was born here I think and has a strong London accent
  • Not really a thread to boast of an ITK status but I live a few roads down and spoke to an old school pal who was one of the first officers on the scene, he said it was the most horrifying thing he’s ever seen and will be very surprised if the either survive, going by what he’s seen that is not details. Shocking, even more so when it’s on your doorstep.
  • A lot of the media reporting is irresponsible and inaccurate - social media has just added to this. Casually saying the attacker may have 'mental health' issues is pretty pointless unless you can qualify what they are - it seems to imply that anyone with a mental health condition is a danger to society.

    I'm just glad this guy is off the streets.
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  • edited August 2018

    We have a lot of gun violence here, but per capita, if people in England had the access to guns and semi-automatics that we do in the USA, you would be having mass-killings every single week. I can only imagine if all the knife attacks, hammer attacks and car attacks you've had in 2018 were assault rifles, instead.

    Chicago saw 66 shootings with 12 fatalities a couple of weeks ago, didn't the Donald repeal Obama's mental health provisions on gun ownership?

    The social mental healthcare in the UK is a national disgrace and thankfully we do have strong gun control though
    Illinois has among the toughest gun laws in the USA. They have not worked. They had record shootings long before Trump was elected. He is not the cause.

    Factoid... take out inner city people from the USA gun violence stats, and shootings per gun-owner per capita is not much different overall than other gun owning countries. Most of the gun deaths are in the inner cities here.

    This study shows that black people commit 20x+ the number of gun murders per capita. They make up only 12% of the US population. These are disturbingly politically incorrect numbers, but they are true and it needs to be addressed. I am sure poverty and one-parent families and poor education are the sub cause in the inner city, but the stats are the stats. Outside of the inner city, white gun deaths in the USA are not that different from other gun owning countries. In fact, per capita they are not really a problem overall. 31 per million among men and 11 for women. The death rate for prescription drugs is 245.

    image
    And only 40% of the guns used in shooting in Chicago come from Illinois. The rest come from states with far more relaxed gun laws, like Indiana. Because states aren't countries.

    I also don't understand how you can just "take out" cities. They're in American. They're filled with Americans who (theoretically) have the same rights as you and I.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/11/07/where-the-guns-used-in-chicago-actually-came-from/?utm_term=.30d2f08dd932

    Also, the rest of your post reads like the lazy, racist Fox News line "This is a black people problem." To which I would say Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Parkland, Vegas, Virginia Tech, Pulse Nightclub, Sandy Hook, etc. and so on.
  • edited August 2018

    A lot of the media reporting is irresponsible and inaccurate - social media has just added to this. Casually saying the attacker may have 'mental health' issues is pretty pointless unless you can qualify what they are - it seems to imply that anyone with a mental health condition is a danger to society.

    I'm just glad this guy is off the streets.

    I agree with this in a broader sense, but the first mention I saw of "Mental Health Issues" seemed to come from The Met. As @Arsenetatters points out, the problem is the phrase is used to describe such a wide array of ailments, from my depression that just means I sleep all day, to whatever the condition(s) of this young man who has committed a horrendous act. I would guess, and others have pointed this out, that the fact that the early BOLO mentions mental health issues probably means those issues were known to police in some capacity and seemingly very relavent to the situation.

    Again, I agree with what you've said by-and-large that it's easy for these kinds of stigmas to become more entrenched with social media (though I also think social media can be a great connector for people with invisible disorders to understand they're not alone). But in this case it seems the mental health information was truly being used to help the public better understand that this is someone who should not be approached.
  • SDAddick said:

    A lot of the media reporting is irresponsible and inaccurate - social media has just added to this. Casually saying the attacker may have 'mental health' issues is pretty pointless unless you can qualify what they are - it seems to imply that anyone with a mental health condition is a danger to society.

    I'm just glad this guy is off the streets.

    I agree with this in a broader sense, but the first mention I saw of "Mental Health Issues" seemed to come from The Met. As @Arsenetatters points out, the problem is the phrase is used to describe such a wide array of ailments, from my depression that just means I sleep all day, to whatever the condition(s) of this young man who has committed a horrendous act. I would guess, and others have pointed this out, that the fact that the early BOLO mentions mental health issues probably means those issues were known to police in some capacity and seemingly very relavent to the situation.

    Again, I agree with what you've said by-and-large that it's easy for these kinds of stigmas to become more entrenched with social media (though I also think social media can be a great connector for people with invisible disorders to understand they're not alone). But in this case it seems the mental health information was truly being used to help the public better understand that this is someone who should not be approached.
    I'm not sure why it was used? What concerns me is that 'mental health issues' is an extremely generic term and consequently pretty meaningless. It's a bit like when they lump all disabled people together as a group....
  • SDAddick said:

    A lot of the media reporting is irresponsible and inaccurate - social media has just added to this. Casually saying the attacker may have 'mental health' issues is pretty pointless unless you can qualify what they are - it seems to imply that anyone with a mental health condition is a danger to society.

    I'm just glad this guy is off the streets.

    I agree with this in a broader sense, but the first mention I saw of "Mental Health Issues" seemed to come from The Met. As @Arsenetatters points out, the problem is the phrase is used to describe such a wide array of ailments, from my depression that just means I sleep all day, to whatever the condition(s) of this young man who has committed a horrendous act. I would guess, and others have pointed this out, that the fact that the early BOLO mentions mental health issues probably means those issues were known to police in some capacity and seemingly very relavent to the situation.

    Again, I agree with what you've said by-and-large that it's easy for these kinds of stigmas to become more entrenched with social media (though I also think social media can be a great connector for people with invisible disorders to understand they're not alone). But in this case it seems the mental health information was truly being used to help the public better understand that this is someone who should not be approached.
    I'm not sure why it was used? What concerns me is that 'mental health issues' is an extremely generic term and consequently pretty meaningless. It's a bit like when they lump all disabled people together as a group....
    Exactly. They should have clarified what the issues were or not said anything at all. If he was a drug addict, he shouldn’t be labelled the same as someone who has depression caused by sleep apnea.
  • SDAddick said:

    A lot of the media reporting is irresponsible and inaccurate - social media has just added to this. Casually saying the attacker may have 'mental health' issues is pretty pointless unless you can qualify what they are - it seems to imply that anyone with a mental health condition is a danger to society.

    I'm just glad this guy is off the streets.

    I agree with this in a broader sense, but the first mention I saw of "Mental Health Issues" seemed to come from The Met. As @Arsenetatters points out, the problem is the phrase is used to describe such a wide array of ailments, from my depression that just means I sleep all day, to whatever the condition(s) of this young man who has committed a horrendous act. I would guess, and others have pointed this out, that the fact that the early BOLO mentions mental health issues probably means those issues were known to police in some capacity and seemingly very relavent to the situation.

    Again, I agree with what you've said by-and-large that it's easy for these kinds of stigmas to become more entrenched with social media (though I also think social media can be a great connector for people with invisible disorders to understand they're not alone). But in this case it seems the mental health information was truly being used to help the public better understand that this is someone who should not be approached.
    I'm not sure why it was used? What concerns me is that 'mental health issues' is an extremely generic term and consequently pretty meaningless. It's a bit like when they lump all disabled people together as a group....
    Exactly. They should have clarified what the issues were or not said anything at all. If he was a drug addict, he shouldn’t be labelled the same as someone who has depression caused by sleep apnea.
    I think the reason the police stated this is because they were aware of the individual and aware of the issues he had.

    It read to me to be either a soft warning to the general public not to approach, or an explanatory pre-answer to any 'is this a terrorist attack?' thinking. Whether they would have been better saying schizophrenia (his condition) rather than mental health issues is another story.
  • SDAddick said:

    A lot of the media reporting is irresponsible and inaccurate - social media has just added to this. Casually saying the attacker may have 'mental health' issues is pretty pointless unless you can qualify what they are - it seems to imply that anyone with a mental health condition is a danger to society.

    I'm just glad this guy is off the streets.

    I agree with this in a broader sense, but the first mention I saw of "Mental Health Issues" seemed to come from The Met. As @Arsenetatters points out, the problem is the phrase is used to describe such a wide array of ailments, from my depression that just means I sleep all day, to whatever the condition(s) of this young man who has committed a horrendous act. I would guess, and others have pointed this out, that the fact that the early BOLO mentions mental health issues probably means those issues were known to police in some capacity and seemingly very relavent to the situation.

    Again, I agree with what you've said by-and-large that it's easy for these kinds of stigmas to become more entrenched with social media (though I also think social media can be a great connector for people with invisible disorders to understand they're not alone). But in this case it seems the mental health information was truly being used to help the public better understand that this is someone who should not be approached.
    I'm not sure why it was used? What concerns me is that 'mental health issues' is an extremely generic term and consequently pretty meaningless. It's a bit like when they lump all disabled people together as a group....
    Exactly. They should have clarified what the issues were or not said anything at all. If he was a drug addict, he shouldn’t be labelled the same as someone who has depression caused by sleep apnea.
    I think the reason the police stated this is because they were aware of the individual and aware of the issues he had.

    It read to me to be either a soft warning to the general public not to approach, or an explanatory pre-answer to any 'is this a terrorist attack?' thinking. Whether they would have been better saying schizophrenia (his condition) rather than mental health issues is another story.
    They just need to say the individual is dangerous and shouldn't be approached - they're police and shouldn't give out half-baked pointless information. All the public need to know is that the individual is dangerous.

  • SDAddick said:

    A lot of the media reporting is irresponsible and inaccurate - social media has just added to this. Casually saying the attacker may have 'mental health' issues is pretty pointless unless you can qualify what they are - it seems to imply that anyone with a mental health condition is a danger to society.

    I'm just glad this guy is off the streets.

    I agree with this in a broader sense, but the first mention I saw of "Mental Health Issues" seemed to come from The Met. As @Arsenetatters points out, the problem is the phrase is used to describe such a wide array of ailments, from my depression that just means I sleep all day, to whatever the condition(s) of this young man who has committed a horrendous act. I would guess, and others have pointed this out, that the fact that the early BOLO mentions mental health issues probably means those issues were known to police in some capacity and seemingly very relavent to the situation.

    Again, I agree with what you've said by-and-large that it's easy for these kinds of stigmas to become more entrenched with social media (though I also think social media can be a great connector for people with invisible disorders to understand they're not alone). But in this case it seems the mental health information was truly being used to help the public better understand that this is someone who should not be approached.
    I'm not sure why it was used? What concerns me is that 'mental health issues' is an extremely generic term and consequently pretty meaningless. It's a bit like when they lump all disabled people together as a group....
    Exactly. They should have clarified what the issues were or not said anything at all. If he was a drug addict, he shouldn’t be labelled the same as someone who has depression caused by sleep apnea.
    I think the reason the police stated this is because they were aware of the individual and aware of the issues he had.

    It read to me to be either a soft warning to the general public not to approach, or an explanatory pre-answer to any 'is this a terrorist attack?' thinking. Whether they would have been better saying schizophrenia (his condition) rather than mental health issues is another story.
    They just need to say the individual is dangerous and shouldn't be approached - they're police and shouldn't give out half-baked pointless information. All the public need to know is that the individual is dangerous.

    Agree.
    Also it could be argued that every terrorist has mental issues, by default.
  • Yeah, think I’m with you too on that @hoof_it_up_to_benty


  • Latest: City worker Ania Gos, critically injured in an apparently random hammer attack in #NewEltham last weekend, has been discharged from hospital but her mother remains seriously ill, say @metpoliceuk
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  • McBobbin said:

    Murder rate in the UK has not gone up that much TBF. Still a lot lower than it was... Last year's peak includes Hillsborough, and the other big peak includes Shipman

    you'll find violent crime has also risen.... to the same rate that existed 10 years ago.

    I remember being so terrified of being murdered and a victim of violent crime 10-15 years ago I used to go riding my bike up and down my road and going on little adventures and playing football in the street with my neighbour friends.

    Terrifying back then, it really was.
  • edited August 2018

    McBobbin said:

    Murder rate in the UK has not gone up that much TBF. Still a lot lower than it was... Last year's peak includes Hillsborough, and the other big peak includes Shipman

    you'll find violent crime has also risen.... to the same rate that existed 10 years ago.

    I remember being so terrified of being murdered and a victim of violent crime 10-15 years ago I used to go riding my bike up and down my road and going on little adventures and playing football in the street with my neighbour friends.

    Terrifying back then, it really was.
    just because you didn't know about it 10-15 years ago doesn't mean it didn't happen. you didn't have twitter and facebook to tell you about what is going on.

    My sister in Law lives in the road next to where this incident happened (in Mottingham), and she hasn't mentioned it to us at all and my husband knows nothing about it as they don't go on any social media. we haven't mentioned it to her as it might freak her out and she might want to move in with us - and that is not happening. There are people at my work that have no idea that this incident happened, and i'm sure they watch the news, but how far spread was this story covered? there are things happeneing all over that we dont hear about.

    I always hear helicopters flying over head, I'm straight on to the eltham facebook group or twitter to find out what is going on!

    my brother had a car land (literally) in his front garden on its side yesterday morning (2.30am) in Kentish Town, a man is critically ill in hospital from being hit by said car and 3 girls have been arrested aged 14, 15 and 17. I've not heard this reported anywhere apart from a little bit on twitter as the road was closed and on the whats app messages from my brother. I thought that would have been quite big news? wtf were 3 girls of that age doing out at 2.30 am on a wednesday evening?!!?!?



  • that is awful suzisausage. I agree that that a lot of them don't make the headlines. As an example I was driving home after dropping a mate off after snooker a while back, I was about to turn left and drive towards Mottingham Station (I had driven via Grove Park and had passsed the BP garaage on my left (and motorbike shop to my right on the roundabout) when I noticed by the church (or small town hall) there was police tape up and some ambulance gear (bag etc) so knew something had happened), yet I checked on the news and yet there was nothing.
  • McBobbin said:

    Murder rate in the UK has not gone up that much TBF. Still a lot lower than it was... Last year's peak includes Hillsborough, and the other big peak includes Shipman

    you'll find violent crime has also risen.... to the same rate that existed 10 years ago.

    I remember being so terrified of being murdered and a victim of violent crime 10-15 years ago I used to go riding my bike up and down my road and going on little adventures and playing football in the street with my neighbour friends.

    Terrifying back then, it really was.
    just because you didn't know about it 10-15 years ago doesn't mean it didn't happen. you didn't have twitter and facebook to tell you about what is going on.

    My sister in Law lives in the road next to where this incident happened (in Mottingham), and she hasn't mentioned it to us at all and my husband knows nothing about it as they don't go on any social media. we haven't mentioned it to her as it might freak her out and she might want to move in with us - and that is not happening. There are people at my work that have no idea that this incident happened, and i'm sure they watch the news, but how far spread was this story covered? there are things happeneing all over that we dont hear about.

    I always hear helicopters flying over head, I'm straight on to the eltham facebook group or twitter to find out what is going on!

    my brother had a car land (literally) in his front garden on its side yesterday morning (2.30am) in Kentish Town, a man is critically ill in hospital from being hit by said car and 3 girls have been arrested aged 14, 15 and 17. I've not heard this reported anywhere apart from a little bit on twitter as the road was closed and on the whats app messages from my brother. I thought that would have been quite big news? wtf were 3 girls of that age doing out at 2.30 am on a wednesday evening?!!?!?



    The Kentish Town incident was on BBC London Radio
  • McBobbin said:

    Murder rate in the UK has not gone up that much TBF. Still a lot lower than it was... Last year's peak includes Hillsborough, and the other big peak includes Shipman

    you'll find violent crime has also risen.... to the same rate that existed 10 years ago.

    I remember being so terrified of being murdered and a victim of violent crime 10-15 years ago I used to go riding my bike up and down my road and going on little adventures and playing football in the street with my neighbour friends.

    Terrifying back then, it really was.
    just because you didn't know about it 10-15 years ago doesn't mean it didn't happen. you didn't have twitter and facebook to tell you about what is going on.

    My sister in Law lives in the road next to where this incident happened (in Mottingham), and she hasn't mentioned it to us at all and my husband knows nothing about it as they don't go on any social media. we haven't mentioned it to her as it might freak her out and she might want to move in with us - and that is not happening. There are people at my work that have no idea that this incident happened, and i'm sure they watch the news, but how far spread was this story covered? there are things happeneing all over that we dont hear about.

    I always hear helicopters flying over head, I'm straight on to the eltham facebook group or twitter to find out what is going on!

    my brother had a car land (literally) in his front garden on its side yesterday morning (2.30am) in Kentish Town, a man is critically ill in hospital from being hit by said car and 3 girls have been arrested aged 14, 15 and 17. I've not heard this reported anywhere apart from a little bit on twitter as the road was closed and on the whats app messages from my brother. I thought that would have been quite big news? wtf were 3 girls of that age doing out at 2.30 am on a wednesday evening?!!?!?



    If you get stuff from Twitter and Facebook it will often be exaggerated and inaccurate. The way people talk sometimes you'd think you were living in a war zone.

    Tabloid newspapers have spent decades preying on fear to sell newspapers. If you lap up a diet of stories about violence and crime you will invariably think things are worse than they are.

  • McBobbin said:

    Murder rate in the UK has not gone up that much TBF. Still a lot lower than it was... Last year's peak includes Hillsborough, and the other big peak includes Shipman

    you'll find violent crime has also risen.... to the same rate that existed 10 years ago.

    I remember being so terrified of being murdered and a victim of violent crime 10-15 years ago I used to go riding my bike up and down my road and going on little adventures and playing football in the street with my neighbour friends.

    Terrifying back then, it really was.
    just because you didn't know about it 10-15 years ago doesn't mean it didn't happen. you didn't have twitter and facebook to tell you about what is going on.

    My sister in Law lives in the road next to where this incident happened (in Mottingham), and she hasn't mentioned it to us at all and my husband knows nothing about it as they don't go on any social media. we haven't mentioned it to her as it might freak her out and she might want to move in with us - and that is not happening. There are people at my work that have no idea that this incident happened, and i'm sure they watch the news, but how far spread was this story covered? there are things happeneing all over that we dont hear about.

    I always hear helicopters flying over head, I'm straight on to the eltham facebook group or twitter to find out what is going on!

    my brother had a car land (literally) in his front garden on its side yesterday morning (2.30am) in Kentish Town, a man is critically ill in hospital from being hit by said car and 3 girls have been arrested aged 14, 15 and 17. I've not heard this reported anywhere apart from a little bit on twitter as the road was closed and on the whats app messages from my brother. I thought that would have been quite big news? wtf were 3 girls of that age doing out at 2.30 am on a wednesday evening?!!?!?



    The Kentish Town incident was on BBC London Radio
    Even though it happened in a Kentish town
  • Lets hope her mum makes a full recovery
  • poverty and the tories init
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