We do love to snipe, don't we? No wonder Duchatelet worked out that the best tactic was divide and rule.
..
There's nothing unusual in this when the process of election is disproportionate to demand for an election. Parish councils, which have the power to raise tax from residents, often co-opt people to casual vacancies, although they are obliged to advertise them first.
This is nothing to do with money,RD has plenty,he has taken a monumental amount of crap from Charlton supporters(Justified,but not in his opinion),and is enjoying every minute of the misery he is inflicting upon us.I dont know if he sees these websites,but I guarantee he pisses himself laughing,knowing he can do what he wants,and we cannot lay a glove on him.He will continue annoying us at his leisure,he sees himself as the man who saved the club,and is not being appreciated,where this will end is really quite a serious matter.What would happen if he suddenly said,bye bye,no more money I am off and just walked out.
This is nothing to do with money,RD has plenty,he has taken a monumental amount of crap from Charlton supporters(Justified,but not in his opinion),and is enjoying every minute of the misery he is inflicting upon us.I dont know if he sees these websites,but I guarantee he pisses himself laughing,knowing he can do what he wants,and we cannot lay a glove on him.He will continue annoying us at his leisure,he sees himself as the man who saved the club,and is not being appreciated,where this will end is really quite a serious matter.What would happen if he suddenly said,bye bye,no more money I am off and just walked out.
Laughing to the tune of it costing £1m + a month, i doubt it.
He wants out, just hasn't got a buyer to do what he wants yet.
How about supporting something that is already working to get Roland out?
It's a one off, extremely timely initiative - ROT.
Don't think we can just wait for that, to be honest. More needs to happen and more quickly, in a place where many people can get involved more easily. We need to make the football authorities and the local authorities uncomfortable here.
Not at all sure I understand this comment.
ROT are asking for support from people acting immediately by becoming members and thus giving financial support. They are also asking for volunteers to go to Belgium in less than two weeks time to deliver leaflets and other propaganda.
Have you a plan to make the football authorities and the local (?) authorities uncomfortable quicker than that?
I wish you well with it, but it’s not a solution of itself, which I think some of you are in danger of mistaking it for. It’s just another protest and one that’s difficult for 99 per cent of fans to participate meaningfully in and hard to get a critical mass of local people to engage in, beyond the bubble of publicity you will create around it.
Already there is a narrative being set up that it would have been more successful if only CARD or me or someone else had done more to make it work, complete with the usual look-at-me tweets from the B20 account, often factually mistaken as this weekend and taken down when others involved point that out. How does that help anyone? Do you think it encourages those being dug out to get involved, two and a half years into this?
No, i don’t have the answers but it would be foolish to rely solely on one tactic, which is difficult to pull off, very far away, when the biggest resource we have is weight of numbers and passion here in England. We need to find a way to harness that.
Right, let's look at what you've written here:
First of all you are being very presumptuous suggesting ROT see the election campaign as a solution to anything, this has never been the case. Indeed it is just another protest, that is all. Hopefully it gives us a very different angle of attack to add into the mix.
There is no narrative being set up by anyone.
ROT recognised that without broader support there was a very real danger the campaign would not be viable. CARD has influence and expertise that ROT doesn't, so an approach was made seeking endorsement and open support from CARD. Unfortunately the message that came back was a big fat no. So how does that measure up to your claim of a set up?
This is about ROT not B20. ROT have no influence over their tweets.
How about supporting something that is already working to get Roland out?
It's a one off, extremely timely initiative - ROT.
Don't think we can just wait for that, to be honest. More needs to happen and more quickly, in a place where many people can get involved more easily. We need to make the football authorities and the local authorities uncomfortable here.
Not at all sure I understand this comment.
ROT are asking for support from people acting immediately by becoming members and thus giving financial support. They are also asking for volunteers to go to Belgium in less than two weeks time to deliver leaflets and other propaganda.
Have you a plan to make the football authorities and the local (?) authorities uncomfortable quicker than that?
I wish you well with it, but it’s not a solution of itself, which I think some of you are in danger of mistaking it for. It’s just another protest and one that’s difficult for 99 per cent of fans to participate meaningfully in and hard to get a critical mass of local people to engage in, beyond the bubble of publicity you will create around it.
Already there is a narrative being set up that it would have been more successful if only CARD or me or someone else had done more to make it work, complete with the usual look-at-me tweets from the B20 account, often factually mistaken as this weekend and taken down when others involved point that out. How does that help anyone? Do you think it encourages those being dug out to get involved, two and a half years into this?
No, i don’t have the answers but it would be foolish to rely solely on one tactic, which is difficult to pull off, very far away, when the biggest resource we have is weight of numbers and passion here in England. We need to find a way to harness that.
This is a shameful misrepresentation of the truth and @Airman Brown frankly you should be ashamed of it.
How about supporting something that is already working to get Roland out?
It's a one off, extremely timely initiative - ROT.
Don't think we can just wait for that, to be honest. More needs to happen and more quickly, in a place where many people can get involved more easily. We need to make the football authorities and the local authorities uncomfortable here.
Not at all sure I understand this comment.
ROT are asking for support from people acting immediately by becoming members and thus giving financial support. They are also asking for volunteers to go to Belgium in less than two weeks time to deliver leaflets and other propaganda.
Have you a plan to make the football authorities and the local (?) authorities uncomfortable quicker than that?
I wish you well with it, but it’s not a solution of itself, which I think some of you are in danger of mistaking it for. It’s just another protest and one that’s difficult for 99 per cent of fans to participate meaningfully in and hard to get a critical mass of local people to engage in, beyond the bubble of publicity you will create around it.
Already there is a narrative being set up that it would have been more successful if only CARD or me or someone else had done more to make it work, complete with the usual look-at-me tweets from the B20 account, often factually mistaken as this weekend and taken down when others involved point that out. How does that help anyone? Do you think it encourages those being dug out to get involved, two and a half years into this?
No, i don’t have the answers but it would be foolish to rely solely on one tactic, which is difficult to pull off, very far away, when the biggest resource we have is weight of numbers and passion here in England. We need to find a way to harness that.
Right, let's look at what you've written here:
First of all you are being very presumptuous suggesting ROT see the election campaign as a solution to anything, this has never been the case. Indeed it is just another protest, that is all. Hopefully it gives us a very different angle of attack to add into the mix.
There is no narrative being set up by anyone.
ROT recognised that without broader support there was a very real danger the campaign would not be viable. CARD has influence and expertise that ROT doesn't, so an approach was made seeking endorsement and open support from CARD. Unfortunately the message that came back was a big fat no. So how does that measure up to your claim of a set up?
This is about ROT not B20. ROT have no influence over their tweets.
Two of us with significant experience of organising election campaigns met you and we talked about tactics well before Christmas. It was clear you had done a lot of work, but we were uncomfortable with some aspects of what you wanted to do at that stage and discussed that with you.
It became clear that you wanted to proceed in the way you had decided anyway, which you did with the launch, so we stepped out, but at no stage have we criticised or undermined what you are doing - indeed I helped publicise it in terms explicitly agreed with you and multiple CARD activists have got involved with ROT since, as has the protest fund.
If you want me to say it, I don't personally believe ROT will achieve a great deal, except making some people feel they are doing something if it goes ahead. I have never thought RD would still own the club in October, and I don't now. I think the effort is disproportionate to the likely benefit.
I think the idea of standing for election in Sint-Truiden, where the authorities have nothing to do with Charlton, is misconceived, just as it would have been to stand Valley Party candidates in Bexley or Lewisham in 1990, and you will find it hard to get traction with voters because of that. I think there's a risk you get drawn into local political squabbles that are of no ultimate relevance to Charlton in order to try to garner support. I think you risk diverting resources and efforts away from the battleground here, but at the same time will struggle to engage significant numbers of Charlton fans because of the distance.
However, that's just my personal view and it may all be a stunning success. I hope it is. The only thing it means is that I won't be travelling to Belgium to help. I've kept my views to myself because so what? Why would I undermine what is clearly a project that others wish to support and which is put forward in an attempt to further a goal we all share?
If you don't accept responsibility for the B20 tweets, isn't it time those previously involved with the B20 made clear that they are an embarrassment and not sent in their name?
How about supporting something that is already working to get Roland out?
It's a one off, extremely timely initiative - ROT.
Don't think we can just wait for that, to be honest. More needs to happen and more quickly, in a place where many people can get involved more easily. We need to make the football authorities and the local authorities uncomfortable here.
Not at all sure I understand this comment.
ROT are asking for support from people acting immediately by becoming members and thus giving financial support. They are also asking for volunteers to go to Belgium in less than two weeks time to deliver leaflets and other propaganda.
Have you a plan to make the football authorities and the local (?) authorities uncomfortable quicker than that?
I wish you well with it, but it’s not a solution of itself, which I think some of you are in danger of mistaking it for. It’s just another protest and one that’s difficult for 99 per cent of fans to participate meaningfully in and hard to get a critical mass of local people to engage in, beyond the bubble of publicity you will create around it.
Already there is a narrative being set up that it would have been more successful if only CARD or me or someone else had done more to make it work, complete with the usual look-at-me tweets from the B20 account, often factually mistaken as this weekend and taken down when others involved point that out. How does that help anyone? Do you think it encourages those being dug out to get involved, two and a half years into this?
No, i don’t have the answers but it would be foolish to rely solely on one tactic, which is difficult to pull off, very far away, when the biggest resource we have is weight of numbers and passion here in England. We need to find a way to harness that.
Right, let's look at what you've written here:
First of all you are being very presumptuous suggesting ROT see the election campaign as a solution to anything, this has never been the case. Indeed it is just another protest, that is all. Hopefully it gives us a very different angle of attack to add into the mix.
There is no narrative being set up by anyone.
ROT recognised that without broader support there was a very real danger the campaign would not be viable. CARD has influence and expertise that ROT doesn't, so an approach was made seeking endorsement and open support from CARD. Unfortunately the message that came back was a big fat no. So how does that measure up to your claim of a set up?
This is about ROT not B20. ROT have no influence over their tweets.
Two of us with significant experience of organising election campaigns met you and we talked about tactics well before Christmas. It was clear you had done a lot of work, but we were uncomfortable with some aspects of what you wanted to do at that stage and discussed that with you.
It became clear that you wanted to proceed in the way you had decided anyway, which you did with the launch, so we stepped out, but at no stage have we criticised or undermined what you are doing - indeed I helped publicise it in terms explicitly agreed with you and multiple CARD activists have got involved with ROT since, as has the protest fund.
If you want me to say it, I don't personally believe ROT will achieve a great deal, except making some people feel they are doing something if it goes ahead. I have never thought RD would still own the club in October, and I don't now. I think the effort is disproportionate to the likely benefit.
I think the idea of standing for election in Sint-Truiden, where the authorities have nothing to do with Charlton, is misconceived, just as it would have been to stand Valley Party candidates in Bexley or Lewisham in 1990, and you will find it hard to get traction with voters because of that. I think there's a risk you get drawn into local political squabbles that are of no ultimate relevance to Charlton in order to try to garner support. I think you risk diverting resources and efforts away from the battleground here, but at the same time will struggle to engage significant numbers of Charlton fans because of the distance.
However, that's just my personal view and it may all be a stunning success. I hope it is. The only thing it means is that I won't be travelling to Belgium to help. I've kept my views to myself because so what? Why would I undermine what is clearly a project that others wish to support and which is put forward in an attempt to further a goal we all share?
If you don't accept responsibility for the B20 tweets, isn't it time those previously involved with the B20 made clear that they are an embarrassment and not sent in their name?
The trouble is there is not really any battle ground here anymore is there as most of his key persons have retreated elsewhere! Whilst opinions might differ on levels of success or discomfort to RD surely to do battle with him you have to take the fight now to where it is going to cause most discomfort, surely?
How about supporting something that is already working to get Roland out?
It's a one off, extremely timely initiative - ROT.
Don't think we can just wait for that, to be honest. More needs to happen and more quickly, in a place where many people can get involved more easily. We need to make the football authorities and the local authorities uncomfortable here.
Not at all sure I understand this comment.
ROT are asking for support from people acting immediately by becoming members and thus giving financial support. They are also asking for volunteers to go to Belgium in less than two weeks time to deliver leaflets and other propaganda.
Have you a plan to make the football authorities and the local (?) authorities uncomfortable quicker than that?
I wish you well with it, but it’s not a solution of itself, which I think some of you are in danger of mistaking it for. It’s just another protest and one that’s difficult for 99 per cent of fans to participate meaningfully in and hard to get a critical mass of local people to engage in, beyond the bubble of publicity you will create around it.
Already there is a narrative being set up that it would have been more successful if only CARD or me or someone else had done more to make it work, complete with the usual look-at-me tweets from the B20 account, often factually mistaken as this weekend and taken down when others involved point that out. How does that help anyone? Do you think it encourages those being dug out to get involved, two and a half years into this?
No, i don’t have the answers but it would be foolish to rely solely on one tactic, which is difficult to pull off, very far away, when the biggest resource we have is weight of numbers and passion here in England. We need to find a way to harness that.
Right, let's look at what you've written here:
First of all you are being very presumptuous suggesting ROT see the election campaign as a solution to anything, this has never been the case. Indeed it is just another protest, that is all. Hopefully it gives us a very different angle of attack to add into the mix.
There is no narrative being set up by anyone.
ROT recognised that without broader support there was a very real danger the campaign would not be viable. CARD has influence and expertise that ROT doesn't, so an approach was made seeking endorsement and open support from CARD. Unfortunately the message that came back was a big fat no. So how does that measure up to your claim of a set up?
This is about ROT not B20. ROT have no influence over their tweets.
Two of us with significant experience of organising election campaigns met you and we talked about tactics well before Christmas. It was clear you had done a lot of work, but we were uncomfortable with some aspects of what you wanted to do at that stage and discussed that with you.
It became clear that you wanted to proceed in the way you had decided anyway, which you did with the launch, so we stepped out, but at no stage have we criticised or undermined what you are doing - indeed I helped publicise it in terms explicitly agreed with you and multiple CARD activists have got involved with ROT since, as has the protest fund.
If you want me to say it, I don't personally believe ROT will achieve a great deal, except making some people feel they are doing something if it goes ahead. I have never thought RD would still own the club in October, and I don't now. I think the effort is disproportionate to the likely benefit.
I think the idea of standing for election in Sint-Truiden, where the authorities have nothing to do with Charlton, is misconceived, just as it would have been to stand Valley Party candidates in Bexley or Lewisham in 1990, and you will find it hard to get traction with voters because of that. I think there's a risk you get drawn into local political squabbles that are of no ultimate relevance to Charlton in order to try to garner support. I think you risk diverting resources and efforts away from the battleground here, but at the same time will struggle to engage significant numbers of Charlton fans because of the distance.
However, that's just my personal view and it may all be a stunning success. I hope it is. The only thing it means is that I won't be travelling to Belgium to help. I've kept my views to myself because so what? Why would I undermine what is clearly a project that others wish to support and which is put forward in an attempt to further a goal we all share?
If you don't accept responsibility for the B20 tweets, isn't it time those previously involved with the B20 made clear that they are an embarrassment and not sent in their name?
As you hope that ROT's campaign is a stunning success would you stop knocking us please? We say time and again ROT is not the B20. They are, as everyone is, entitled to their opinion.
As you are well aware, many ladies of WAR are part of ROT. We don't have willies to wave we just want to get on with getting Roland out.
I have just read through all that has been written and it's all hot air. What is needed is action and fast the EFL won't be bothered all the time the club is running. Perhaps invade the directors box like the West Ham fans did or go to Richard Murray's home and protest! But let's have some action Saturday and not say it's too early otherwise by this time next season we will be in league 2. As I don't think the Aussies are interested otherwise they would have been pushing to get the sale agreed.
How about supporting something that is already working to get Roland out?
It's a one off, extremely timely initiative - ROT.
Don't think we can just wait for that, to be honest. More needs to happen and more quickly, in a place where many people can get involved more easily. We need to make the football authorities and the local authorities uncomfortable here.
Not at all sure I understand this comment.
ROT are asking for support from people acting immediately by becoming members and thus giving financial support. They are also asking for volunteers to go to Belgium in less than two weeks time to deliver leaflets and other propaganda.
Have you a plan to make the football authorities and the local (?) authorities uncomfortable quicker than that?
I wish you well with it, but it’s not a solution of itself, which I think some of you are in danger of mistaking it for. It’s just another protest and one that’s difficult for 99 per cent of fans to participate meaningfully in and hard to get a critical mass of local people to engage in, beyond the bubble of publicity you will create around it.
Already there is a narrative being set up that it would have been more successful if only CARD or me or someone else had done more to make it work, complete with the usual look-at-me tweets from the B20 account, often factually mistaken as this weekend and taken down when others involved point that out. How does that help anyone? Do you think it encourages those being dug out to get involved, two and a half years into this?
No, i don’t have the answers but it would be foolish to rely solely on one tactic, which is difficult to pull off, very far away, when the biggest resource we have is weight of numbers and passion here in England. We need to find a way to harness that.
Right, let's look at what you've written here:
First of all you are being very presumptuous suggesting ROT see the election campaign as a solution to anything, this has never been the case. Indeed it is just another protest, that is all. Hopefully it gives us a very different angle of attack to add into the mix.
There is no narrative being set up by anyone.
ROT recognised that without broader support there was a very real danger the campaign would not be viable. CARD has influence and expertise that ROT doesn't, so an approach was made seeking endorsement and open support from CARD. Unfortunately the message that came back was a big fat no. So how does that measure up to your claim of a set up?
This is about ROT not B20. ROT have no influence over their tweets.
Two of us with significant experience of organising election campaigns met you and we talked about tactics well before Christmas. It was clear you had done a lot of work, but we were uncomfortable with some aspects of what you wanted to do at that stage and discussed that with you.
It became clear that you wanted to proceed in the way you had decided anyway, which you did with the launch, so we stepped out, but at no stage have we criticised or undermined what you are doing - indeed I helped publicise it in terms explicitly agreed with you and multiple CARD activists have got involved with ROT since, as has the protest fund.
If you want me to say it, I don't personally believe ROT will achieve a great deal, except making some people feel they are doing something if it goes ahead. I have never thought RD would still own the club in October, and I don't now. I think the effort is disproportionate to the likely benefit.
I think the idea of standing for election in Sint-Truiden, where the authorities have nothing to do with Charlton, is misconceived, just as it would have been to stand Valley Party candidates in Bexley or Lewisham in 1990, and you will find it hard to get traction with voters because of that. I think there's a risk you get drawn into local political squabbles that are of no ultimate relevance to Charlton in order to try to garner support. I think you risk diverting resources and efforts away from the battleground here, but at the same time will struggle to engage significant numbers of Charlton fans because of the distance.
However, that's just my personal view and it may all be a stunning success. I hope it is. The only thing it means is that I won't be travelling to Belgium to help. I've kept my views to myself because so what? Why would I undermine what is clearly a project that others wish to support and which is put forward in an attempt to further a goal we all share?
If you don't accept responsibility for the B20 tweets, isn't it time those previously involved with the B20 made clear that they are an embarrassment and not sent in their name?
As you hope that ROT's campaign is a stunning success would you stop knocking us please? We say time and again ROT is not the B20. They are, as everyone is, entitled to their opinion.
As you are well aware, many ladies of WAR are part of ROT. We don't have willies to wave we just want to get on with getting Roland out.
Thank you.
So everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it falls in line with ROT's.
How about supporting something that is already working to get Roland out?
It's a one off, extremely timely initiative - ROT.
Don't think we can just wait for that, to be honest. More needs to happen and more quickly, in a place where many people can get involved more easily. We need to make the football authorities and the local authorities uncomfortable here.
Not at all sure I understand this comment.
ROT are asking for support from people acting immediately by becoming members and thus giving financial support. They are also asking for volunteers to go to Belgium in less than two weeks time to deliver leaflets and other propaganda.
Have you a plan to make the football authorities and the local (?) authorities uncomfortable quicker than that?
I wish you well with it, but it’s not a solution of itself, which I think some of you are in danger of mistaking it for. It’s just another protest and one that’s difficult for 99 per cent of fans to participate meaningfully in and hard to get a critical mass of local people to engage in, beyond the bubble of publicity you will create around it.
Already there is a narrative being set up that it would have been more successful if only CARD or me or someone else had done more to make it work, complete with the usual look-at-me tweets from the B20 account, often factually mistaken as this weekend and taken down when others involved point that out. How does that help anyone? Do you think it encourages those being dug out to get involved, two and a half years into this?
No, i don’t have the answers but it would be foolish to rely solely on one tactic, which is difficult to pull off, very far away, when the biggest resource we have is weight of numbers and passion here in England. We need to find a way to harness that.
Right, let's look at what you've written here:
First of all you are being very presumptuous suggesting ROT see the election campaign as a solution to anything, this has never been the case. Indeed it is just another protest, that is all. Hopefully it gives us a very different angle of attack to add into the mix.
There is no narrative being set up by anyone.
ROT recognised that without broader support there was a very real danger the campaign would not be viable. CARD has influence and expertise that ROT doesn't, so an approach was made seeking endorsement and open support from CARD. Unfortunately the message that came back was a big fat no. So how does that measure up to your claim of a set up?
This is about ROT not B20. ROT have no influence over their tweets.
Two of us with significant experience of organising election campaigns met you and we talked about tactics well before Christmas. It was clear you had done a lot of work, but we were uncomfortable with some aspects of what you wanted to do at that stage and discussed that with you.
It became clear that you wanted to proceed in the way you had decided anyway, which you did with the launch, so we stepped out, but at no stage have we criticised or undermined what you are doing - indeed I helped publicise it in terms explicitly agreed with you and multiple CARD activists have got involved with ROT since, as has the protest fund.
If you want me to say it, I don't personally believe ROT will achieve a great deal, except making some people feel they are doing something if it goes ahead. I have never thought RD would still own the club in October, and I don't now. I think the effort is disproportionate to the likely benefit.
I think the idea of standing for election in Sint-Truiden, where the authorities have nothing to do with Charlton, is misconceived, just as it would have been to stand Valley Party candidates in Bexley or Lewisham in 1990, and you will find it hard to get traction with voters because of that. I think there's a risk you get drawn into local political squabbles that are of no ultimate relevance to Charlton in order to try to garner support. I think you risk diverting resources and efforts away from the battleground here, but at the same time will struggle to engage significant numbers of Charlton fans because of the distance.
However, that's just my personal view and it may all be a stunning success. I hope it is. The only thing it means is that I won't be travelling to Belgium to help. I've kept my views to myself because so what? Why would I undermine what is clearly a project that others wish to support and which is put forward in an attempt to further a goal we all share?
If you don't accept responsibility for the B20 tweets, isn't it time those previously involved with the B20 made clear that they are an embarrassment and not sent in their name?
As you hope that ROT's campaign is a stunning success would you stop knocking us please? We say time and again ROT is not the B20. They are, as everyone is, entitled to their opinion.
As you are well aware, many ladies of WAR are part of ROT. We don't have willies to wave we just want to get on with getting Roland out.
Thank you.
So everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it falls in line with ROT's.
I have just read through all that has been written and it's all hot air. What is needed is action and fast the EFL won't be bothered all the time the club is running. Perhaps invade the directors box like the West Ham fans did or go to Richard Murray's home and protest! But let's have some action Saturday and not say it's too early otherwise by this time next season we will be in league 2. As I don't think the Aussies are interested otherwise they would have been pushing to get the sale agreed.
The way the EFL will care is if it directly effects them, e.g delaying or stopping a fixture.
How about supporting something that is already working to get Roland out?
It's a one off, extremely timely initiative - ROT.
Don't think we can just wait for that, to be honest. More needs to happen and more quickly, in a place where many people can get involved more easily. We need to make the football authorities and the local authorities uncomfortable here.
Not at all sure I understand this comment.
ROT are asking for support from people acting immediately by becoming members and thus giving financial support. They are also asking for volunteers to go to Belgium in less than two weeks time to deliver leaflets and other propaganda.
Have you a plan to make the football authorities and the local (?) authorities uncomfortable quicker than that?
I wish you well with it, but it’s not a solution of itself, which I think some of you are in danger of mistaking it for. It’s just another protest and one that’s difficult for 99 per cent of fans to participate meaningfully in and hard to get a critical mass of local people to engage in, beyond the bubble of publicity you will create around it.
Already there is a narrative being set up that it would have been more successful if only CARD or me or someone else had done more to make it work, complete with the usual look-at-me tweets from the B20 account, often factually mistaken as this weekend and taken down when others involved point that out. How does that help anyone? Do you think it encourages those being dug out to get involved, two and a half years into this?
No, i don’t have the answers but it would be foolish to rely solely on one tactic, which is difficult to pull off, very far away, when the biggest resource we have is weight of numbers and passion here in England. We need to find a way to harness that.
Right, let's look at what you've written here:
First of all you are being very presumptuous suggesting ROT see the election campaign as a solution to anything, this has never been the case. Indeed it is just another protest, that is all. Hopefully it gives us a very different angle of attack to add into the mix.
There is no narrative being set up by anyone.
ROT recognised that without broader support there was a very real danger the campaign would not be viable. CARD has influence and expertise that ROT doesn't, so an approach was made seeking endorsement and open support from CARD. Unfortunately the message that came back was a big fat no. So how does that measure up to your claim of a set up?
This is about ROT not B20. ROT have no influence over their tweets.
Two of us with significant experience of organising election campaigns met you and we talked about tactics well before Christmas. It was clear you had done a lot of work, but we were uncomfortable with some aspects of what you wanted to do at that stage and discussed that with you.
It became clear that you wanted to proceed in the way you had decided anyway, which you did with the launch, so we stepped out, but at no stage have we criticised or undermined what you are doing - indeed I helped publicise it in terms explicitly agreed with you and multiple CARD activists have got involved with ROT since, as has the protest fund.
If you want me to say it, I don't personally believe ROT will achieve a great deal, except making some people feel they are doing something if it goes ahead. I have never thought RD would still own the club in October, and I don't now. I think the effort is disproportionate to the likely benefit.
I think the idea of standing for election in Sint-Truiden, where the authorities have nothing to do with Charlton, is misconceived, just as it would have been to stand Valley Party candidates in Bexley or Lewisham in 1990, and you will find it hard to get traction with voters because of that. I think there's a risk you get drawn into local political squabbles that are of no ultimate relevance to Charlton in order to try to garner support. I think you risk diverting resources and efforts away from the battleground here, but at the same time will struggle to engage significant numbers of Charlton fans because of the distance.
However, that's just my personal view and it may all be a stunning success. I hope it is. The only thing it means is that I won't be travelling to Belgium to help. I've kept my views to myself because so what? Why would I undermine what is clearly a project that others wish to support and which is put forward in an attempt to further a goal we all share?
If you don't accept responsibility for the B20 tweets, isn't it time those previously involved with the B20 made clear that they are an embarrassment and not sent in their name?
As you hope that ROT's campaign is a stunning success would you stop knocking us please? We say time and again ROT is not the B20. They are, as everyone is, entitled to their opinion.
As you are well aware, many ladies of WAR are part of ROT. We don't have willies to wave we just want to get on with getting Roland out.
Thank you.
So everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it falls in line with ROT's.
How about supporting something that is already working to get Roland out?
It's a one off, extremely timely initiative - ROT.
Don't think we can just wait for that, to be honest. More needs to happen and more quickly, in a place where many people can get involved more easily. We need to make the football authorities and the local authorities uncomfortable here.
Not at all sure I understand this comment.
ROT are asking for support from people acting immediately by becoming members and thus giving financial support. They are also asking for volunteers to go to Belgium in less than two weeks time to deliver leaflets and other propaganda.
Have you a plan to make the football authorities and the local (?) authorities uncomfortable quicker than that?
I wish you well with it, but it’s not a solution of itself, which I think some of you are in danger of mistaking it for. It’s just another protest and one that’s difficult for 99 per cent of fans to participate meaningfully in and hard to get a critical mass of local people to engage in, beyond the bubble of publicity you will create around it.
Already there is a narrative being set up that it would have been more successful if only CARD or me or someone else had done more to make it work, complete with the usual look-at-me tweets from the B20 account, often factually mistaken as this weekend and taken down when others involved point that out. How does that help anyone? Do you think it encourages those being dug out to get involved, two and a half years into this?
No, i don’t have the answers but it would be foolish to rely solely on one tactic, which is difficult to pull off, very far away, when the biggest resource we have is weight of numbers and passion here in England. We need to find a way to harness that.
Right, let's look at what you've written here:
First of all you are being very presumptuous suggesting ROT see the election campaign as a solution to anything, this has never been the case. Indeed it is just another protest, that is all. Hopefully it gives us a very different angle of attack to add into the mix.
There is no narrative being set up by anyone.
ROT recognised that without broader support there was a very real danger the campaign would not be viable. CARD has influence and expertise that ROT doesn't, so an approach was made seeking endorsement and open support from CARD. Unfortunately the message that came back was a big fat no. So how does that measure up to your claim of a set up?
This is about ROT not B20. ROT have no influence over their tweets.
Two of us with significant experience of organising election campaigns met you and we talked about tactics well before Christmas. It was clear you had done a lot of work, but we were uncomfortable with some aspects of what you wanted to do at that stage and discussed that with you.
It became clear that you wanted to proceed in the way you had decided anyway, which you did with the launch, so we stepped out, but at no stage have we criticised or undermined what you are doing - indeed I helped publicise it in terms explicitly agreed with you and multiple CARD activists have got involved with ROT since, as has the protest fund.
If you want me to say it, I don't personally believe ROT will achieve a great deal, except making some people feel they are doing something if it goes ahead. I have never thought RD would still own the club in October, and I don't now. I think the effort is disproportionate to the likely benefit.
I think the idea of standing for election in Sint-Truiden, where the authorities have nothing to do with Charlton, is misconceived, just as it would have been to stand Valley Party candidates in Bexley or Lewisham in 1990, and you will find it hard to get traction with voters because of that. I think there's a risk you get drawn into local political squabbles that are of no ultimate relevance to Charlton in order to try to garner support. I think you risk diverting resources and efforts away from the battleground here, but at the same time will struggle to engage significant numbers of Charlton fans because of the distance.
However, that's just my personal view and it may all be a stunning success. I hope it is. The only thing it means is that I won't be travelling to Belgium to help. I've kept my views to myself because so what? Why would I undermine what is clearly a project that others wish to support and which is put forward in an attempt to further a goal we all share?
If you don't accept responsibility for the B20 tweets, isn't it time those previously involved with the B20 made clear that they are an embarrassment and not sent in their name?
As you hope that ROT's campaign is a stunning success would you stop knocking us please? We say time and again ROT is not the B20. They are, as everyone is, entitled to their opinion.
As you are well aware, many ladies of WAR are part of ROT. We don't have willies to wave we just want to get on with getting Roland out.
Thank you.
So everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it falls in line with ROT's.
Sorry?
Please show me where Arsentatters says that?
'As you hope that ROT's campaign is a stunning success,would you stop knocking us please'
We do love to snipe, don't we? No wonder Duchatelet worked out that the best tactic was divide and rule.
‘have only supported us for a couple of seasons purely based on family links.’
I can understand how you might think that, but that’s not the full picture at all.
With apologies in advance for an overlong post, other shorter posts are available ;-)
My relationship with Charlton goes back to the day I was born in 1956, and is quite complex. Because of the way he was sacked, and the way he was treated after he was sacked, JS never enjoyed the relationship with the club that he should have done during his final years. He had a minor breakdown as detailed in his book, from which he never fully recovered. So the family feeling was that the club betrayed him after he’d built the club up and given it nearly 24 years of his life.
As you’ll know, after Charlton he was briefly manager of Millwall, and then a director. So when I was seven or eight, until I was nine, I was allowed to sit next to him in the directors’ box, and was briefly a Millwall ‘fan’ as a result. I’ve often joked about that over the years of course. As you would when your middle name is Charlton.
JS died when I was nine during the ‘66 World Cup. There was no mention of his passing in Charlton’s programme at the beginning of the the following season, something that surprised my parents. Shortly afterwards, in Dec ‘66, my dad, a former covered ender, took me to a match at The Valley (v. Millwall) and explained the family connection more fully.
From that time I ‘followed’ all of the clubs he’d been involved with as a player and manager, but mainly Charlton, despite the love/hate element, largely because of my mum who was always a fan, and went to many matches, including reserve matches, with her mum, in the thirties, forties and early fifties.
In ‘68 I lost a lot of my interest in football, but it was rekindled in the early seventies when I re-read grandad’s book while researching my own book ‘James Seed - Football Manager’. From that time I followed Charlton more closely, (but going to matches only occasionally), and accompanied my mum when she opened the Jimmy Seed Stand (and the rededication in the nineties) and was involved in the loaning of the bust to the club. I was also invited to a special ‘Back to The Valley’ dinner when Jimmy Seed was inaugurated into the original Charlton Hall of Fame (after Sam Bartram).
When mum developed dementia she increasingly reverted to memories from her past, and we’d spend hours talking about her memories of the club, her negative feeling about the way her dad was treated having been largely forgotten. In her last year or so, as the disease worsened, singing the Red Red Robin with her was about the only was to get through to her.
After she passed away in 2015 I wanted to take my boys to some matches to keep the family link alive. I was hoping at least one of them would get the bug, but wasn’t expecting my own ‘family’ support to become something much more, I guess approaching obsession. I feel both blessed, and cursed that that happened :-)
I was happy to be co-opted to the Board, prior to the forthcoming election, which gives me a chance to see if it’s a good fit for me, and supporters a chance to organise a rebellion if I’m not.
It’s always possible I may have the time required to devote to the Trust. I’ve seen how hard the Board members work behind the scenes, unpaid, and their own time, and it’s been sad to see them given a hard time by some on CL.
Of course CAST is "doing something". Three of us (one of whom is supposed to be on holiday) have spent most of our weekend on it. But it's the nature of Supporter Trust stuff that it is prepared with care and below the radar until such time as we have something concrete to report.
There is absolutely no point in the Trust trying to duplicate either CARD or ROT efforts to generate public attention to our plight. Indeed we are part of CARD, that is the whole point of it. Within the CARD team you have at least two people who are media professionals, and better placed to understand and activate the media than anyone within the Trust Board. That is the strength of the Coalition.
And as for ROT? Well, see you in Sint-Truiden sometime soon.
Roland Out Today.
Thanks for your post.
CAST recently announced that it does not support the proposed actions of CARD, due as I recall to the impending sale of the club. Now that it seems that the sale is far from certain, does CAST retain their previous stance? Furthermore what actions are CAST recommending to it's paid supporters to help bring forward the sale?
We do love to snipe, don't we? No wonder Duchatelet worked out that the best tactic was divide and rule.
‘have only supported us for a couple of seasons purely based on family links.’
I can understand how you might think that, but that’s not the full picture at all.
With apologies in advance for an overlong post, other shorter posts are available ;-)
My relationship with Charlton goes back to the day I was born in 1956, and is quite complex. Because of the way he was sacked, and the way he was treated after he was sacked, JS never enjoyed the relationship with the club that he should have done during his final years. He had a minor breakdown as detailed in his book, from which he never fully recovered. So the family feeling was that the club betrayed him after he’d built the club up and given it nearly 24 years of his life.
As you’ll know, after Charlton he was briefly manager of Millwall, and then a director. So when I was seven or eight, until I was nine, I was allowed to sit next to him in the directors’ box, and was briefly a Millwall ‘fan’ as a result. I’ve often joked about that over the years of course. As you would when your middle name is Charlton.
JS died when I was nine during the ‘66 World Cup. There was no mention of his passing in Charlton’s programme at the beginning of the the following season, something that surprised my parents. Shortly afterwards, in Dec ‘66, my dad, a former covered ender, took me to a match at The Valley (v. Millwall) and explained the family connection more fully.
From that time I ‘followed’ all of the clubs he’d been involved with as a player and manager, but mainly Charlton, despite the love/hate element, largely because of my mum who was always a fan, and went to many matches, including reserve matches, with her mum, in the thirties, forties and early fifties.
In ‘68 I lost a lot of my interest in football, but it was rekindled in the early seventies when I re-read grandad’s book while researching my own book ‘James Seed - Football Manager’. From that time I followed Charlton more closely, (but going to matches only occasionally), and accompanied my mum when she opened the Jimmy Seed Stand (and the rededication in the nineties) and was involved in the loaning of the bust to the club. I was also invited to a special ‘Back to The Valley’ dinner when Jimmy Seed was inaugurated into the original Charlton Hall of Fame (after Sam Bartram).
When mum developed dementia she increasingly reverted to memories from her past, and we’d spend hours talking about her memories of the club, her negative feeling about the way her dad was treated having been largely forgotten. In her last year or so, as the disease worsened, singing the Red Red Robin with her was about the only was to get through to her.
After she passed away in 2015 I wanted to take my boys to some matches to keep the family link alive. I was hoping at least one of them would get the bug, but wasn’t expecting my own ‘family’ support to become something much more, I guess approaching obsession. I feel both blessed, and cursed that that happened :-)
I was happy to be co-opted to the Board, prior to the forthcoming election, which gives me a chance to see if it’s a good fit for me, and supporters a chance to organise a rebellion if I’m not.
It’s always possible I may have the time required to devote to the Trust. I’ve seen how hard the Board members work behind the scenes, unpaid, and their own time, and it’s been sad to see them given a hard time by some on CL.
How about supporting something that is already working to get Roland out?
It's a one off, extremely timely initiative - ROT.
Don't think we can just wait for that, to be honest. More needs to happen and more quickly, in a place where many people can get involved more easily. We need to make the football authorities and the local authorities uncomfortable here.
Not at all sure I understand this comment.
ROT are asking for support from people acting immediately by becoming members and thus giving financial support. They are also asking for volunteers to go to Belgium in less than two weeks time to deliver leaflets and other propaganda.
Have you a plan to make the football authorities and the local (?) authorities uncomfortable quicker than that?
I wish you well with it, but it’s not a solution of itself, which I think some of you are in danger of mistaking it for. It’s just another protest and one that’s difficult for 99 per cent of fans to participate meaningfully in and hard to get a critical mass of local people to engage in, beyond the bubble of publicity you will create around it.
Already there is a narrative being set up that it would have been more successful if only CARD or me or someone else had done more to make it work, complete with the usual look-at-me tweets from the B20 account, often factually mistaken as this weekend and taken down when others involved point that out. How does that help anyone? Do you think it encourages those being dug out to get involved, two and a half years into this?
No, i don’t have the answers but it would be foolish to rely solely on one tactic, which is difficult to pull off, very far away, when the biggest resource we have is weight of numbers and passion here in England. We need to find a way to harness that.
Right, let's look at what you've written here:
First of all you are being very presumptuous suggesting ROT see the election campaign as a solution to anything, this has never been the case. Indeed it is just another protest, that is all. Hopefully it gives us a very different angle of attack to add into the mix.
There is no narrative being set up by anyone.
ROT recognised that without broader support there was a very real danger the campaign would not be viable. CARD has influence and expertise that ROT doesn't, so an approach was made seeking endorsement and open support from CARD. Unfortunately the message that came back was a big fat no. So how does that measure up to your claim of a set up?
This is about ROT not B20. ROT have no influence over their tweets.
Two of us with significant experience of organising election campaigns met you and we talked about tactics well before Christmas. It was clear you had done a lot of work, but we were uncomfortable with some aspects of what you wanted to do at that stage and discussed that with you.
It became clear that you wanted to proceed in the way you had decided anyway, which you did with the launch, so we stepped out, but at no stage have we criticised or undermined what you are doing - indeed I helped publicise it in terms explicitly agreed with you and multiple CARD activists have got involved with ROT since, as has the protest fund.
If you want me to say it, I don't personally believe ROT will achieve a great deal, except making some people feel they are doing something if it goes ahead. I have never thought RD would still own the club in October, and I don't now. I think the effort is disproportionate to the likely benefit.
I think the idea of standing for election in Sint-Truiden, where the authorities have nothing to do with Charlton, is misconceived, just as it would have been to stand Valley Party candidates in Bexley or Lewisham in 1990, and you will find it hard to get traction with voters because of that. I think there's a risk you get drawn into local political squabbles that are of no ultimate relevance to Charlton in order to try to garner support. I think you risk diverting resources and efforts away from the battleground here, but at the same time will struggle to engage significant numbers of Charlton fans because of the distance.
However, that's just my personal view and it may all be a stunning success. I hope it is. The only thing it means is that I won't be travelling to Belgium to help. I've kept my views to myself because so what? Why would I undermine what is clearly a project that others wish to support and which is put forward in an attempt to further a goal we all share?
If you don't accept responsibility for the B20 tweets, isn't it time those previously involved with the B20 made clear that they are an embarrassment and not sent in their name?
You may not have criticised and undermined publicly but I'm aware that you've lied about our intentions and methods in order to discredit ROT within the coalition. Why? I do not know, only you know that.
Our meeting of 10th October 2017 with you and one other member of CARD was positive and we left on the understanding that we had a collaboration. You were tasked with investigating the requirements on the Belgian municipal election system, whilst the other CARD member was tasked with exploring ideas for a party name and logo, and to commission a party promotional video for the agreed launch date of 5th December 2017. I emailed the notes to you on 12th October 2017. On 1st November you expressed the view that we should delay the launch and that waiting another month or so would not jeopardise the campaign, that was the last communication I had from you on the matter.
We continued preparations for the launch, but in mid November I was contacted by another member of the coalition to say that CARD would not support us because it was thought a takeover was imminent and our activities might negatively affect that. Based on that premise, at around that time we were also told the protest fund could not be used for something that might impact on the takeover and therefore would not be available to ROT.
A week or so after the launch you asked if you could write something about ROT in the VOTV and I agreed. The result was a few lines in the news roundup - thanks for that.
We have consistently believed there is a need to keep the pressure on in all possible ways until Duchâtelet has left the building, and that is what we will continue to do. You can have whatever opinion you want on whether the amount of effort required is worth it, but since it's not you making the effort why should you care? I just find it extremely sad that this opportunity may well fall short simply because for some reason YOU don't approve.
As for B20? Like it or not, ROT are not answerable for their views. If the tweets were tweeted from the ROT twitter account that would of course be different.
Comments
He wants out, just hasn't got a buyer to do what he wants yet.
First of all you are being very presumptuous suggesting ROT see the election campaign as a solution to anything, this has never been the case. Indeed it is just another protest, that is all. Hopefully it gives us a very different angle of attack to add into the mix.
There is no narrative being set up by anyone.
ROT recognised that without broader support there was a very real danger the campaign would not be viable. CARD has influence and expertise that ROT doesn't, so an approach was made seeking endorsement and open support from CARD. Unfortunately the message that came back was a big fat no. So how does that measure up to your claim of a set up?
This is about ROT not B20. ROT have no influence over their tweets.
Blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah?
Blah...
It became clear that you wanted to proceed in the way you had decided anyway, which you did with the launch, so we stepped out, but at no stage have we criticised or undermined what you are doing - indeed I helped publicise it in terms explicitly agreed with you and multiple CARD activists have got involved with ROT since, as has the protest fund.
If you want me to say it, I don't personally believe ROT will achieve a great deal, except making some people feel they are doing something if it goes ahead. I have never thought RD would still own the club in October, and I don't now. I think the effort is disproportionate to the likely benefit.
I think the idea of standing for election in Sint-Truiden, where the authorities have nothing to do with Charlton, is misconceived, just as it would have been to stand Valley Party candidates in Bexley or Lewisham in 1990, and you will find it hard to get traction with voters because of that. I think there's a risk you get drawn into local political squabbles that are of no ultimate relevance to Charlton in order to try to garner support. I think you risk diverting resources and efforts away from the battleground here, but at the same time will struggle to engage significant numbers of Charlton fans because of the distance.
However, that's just my personal view and it may all be a stunning success. I hope it is. The only thing it means is that I won't be travelling to Belgium to help. I've kept my views to myself because so what? Why would I undermine what is clearly a project that others wish to support and which is put forward in an attempt to further a goal we all share?
If you don't accept responsibility for the B20 tweets, isn't it time those previously involved with the B20 made clear that they are an embarrassment and not sent in their name?
As you hope that ROT's campaign is a stunning success would you stop knocking us please? We say time and again ROT is not the B20. They are, as everyone is, entitled to their opinion.
As you are well aware, many ladies of WAR are part of ROT. We don't have willies to wave we just want to get on with getting Roland out.
Thank you.
Please show me where Arsentatters says that?
Not everyone will agree. So what.
It's not knocking, it's giving an opinion.
I can understand how you might think that, but that’s not the full picture at all.
With apologies in advance for an overlong post, other shorter posts are available ;-)
My relationship with Charlton goes back to the day I was born in 1956, and is quite complex. Because of the way he was sacked, and the way he was treated after he was sacked, JS never enjoyed the relationship with the club that he should have done during his final years. He had a minor breakdown as detailed in his book, from which he never fully recovered. So the family feeling was that the club betrayed him after he’d built the club up and given it nearly 24 years of his life.
As you’ll know, after Charlton he was briefly manager of Millwall, and then a director.
So when I was seven or eight, until I was nine, I was allowed to sit next to him in the directors’ box, and was briefly a Millwall ‘fan’ as a result. I’ve often joked about that over the years of course. As you would when your middle name is Charlton.
JS died when I was nine during the ‘66 World Cup. There was no mention of his passing in Charlton’s programme at the beginning of the the following season, something that surprised my parents. Shortly afterwards, in Dec ‘66, my dad, a former covered ender, took me to a match at The Valley (v. Millwall) and explained the family connection more fully.
From that time I ‘followed’ all of the clubs he’d been involved with as a player and manager, but mainly Charlton, despite the love/hate element, largely because of my mum who was always a fan, and went to many matches, including reserve matches, with her mum, in the thirties, forties and early fifties.
In ‘68 I lost a lot of my interest in football, but it was rekindled in the early seventies when I re-read grandad’s book while researching my own book ‘James Seed - Football Manager’.
From that time I followed Charlton more closely, (but going to matches only occasionally), and accompanied my mum when she opened the Jimmy Seed Stand (and the rededication in the nineties) and was involved in the loaning of the bust to the club. I was also invited to a special ‘Back to The Valley’ dinner when Jimmy Seed was inaugurated into the original Charlton Hall of Fame (after Sam Bartram).
When mum developed dementia she increasingly reverted to memories from her past, and we’d spend hours talking about her memories of the club, her negative feeling about the way her dad was treated having been largely forgotten. In her last year or so, as the disease worsened, singing the Red Red Robin with her was about the only was to get through to her.
After she passed away in 2015 I wanted to take my boys to some matches to keep the family link alive. I was hoping at least one of them would get the bug, but wasn’t expecting my own ‘family’ support to become something much more, I guess approaching obsession. I feel both blessed, and cursed that that happened :-)
I was happy to be co-opted to the Board, prior to the forthcoming election, which gives me a chance to see if it’s a good fit for me, and supporters a chance to organise a rebellion if I’m not.
It’s always possible I may have the time required to devote to the Trust. I’ve seen how hard the Board members work behind the scenes, unpaid, and their own time, and it’s been sad to see them given a hard time by some on CL.
CAST recently announced that it does not support the proposed actions of CARD, due as I recall to the impending sale of the club. Now that it seems that the sale is far from certain, does CAST retain their previous stance? Furthermore what actions are CAST recommending to it's paid supporters to help bring forward the sale?
Thanks in advance for your response.
Our meeting of 10th October 2017 with you and one other member of CARD was positive and we left on the understanding that we had a collaboration. You were tasked with investigating the requirements on the Belgian municipal election system, whilst the other CARD member was tasked with exploring ideas for a party name and logo, and to commission a party promotional video for the agreed launch date of 5th December 2017. I emailed the notes to you on 12th October 2017. On 1st November you expressed the view that we should delay the launch and that waiting another month or so would not jeopardise the campaign, that was the last communication I had from you on the matter.
We continued preparations for the launch, but in mid November I was contacted by another member of the coalition to say that CARD would not support us because it was thought a takeover was imminent and our activities might negatively affect that. Based on that premise, at around that time we were also told the protest fund could not be used for something that might impact on the takeover and therefore would not be available to ROT.
A week or so after the launch you asked if you could write something about ROT in the VOTV and I agreed. The result was a few lines in the news roundup - thanks for that.
We have consistently believed there is a need to keep the pressure on in all possible ways until Duchâtelet has left the building, and that is what we will continue to do. You can have whatever opinion you want on whether the amount of effort required is worth it, but since it's not you making the effort why should you care? I just find it extremely sad that this opportunity may well fall short simply because for some reason YOU don't approve.
As for B20? Like it or not, ROT are not answerable for their views. If the tweets were tweeted from the ROT twitter account that would of course be different.